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5C3/2 Vactrols
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Music Tech DIY  
Author 5C3/2 Vactrols
metasonix
It appears that the distributors who carried all Excelitas Vactrols are now claiming they are either out of stock with "no known leadtime", or they are no longer being manufactured.

https://www.alliedelec.com/excelitas-technologies-sensors-vtl5c3-2/702 19701/
http://www.newark.com/excelitas-tech/vtl5c3-2/optocoupler-resistor-250 0vrms/dp/97F1139

I need some. Does anyone here in DIY have at least 100-200 pcs of extras they can sell to us?

If you have 5C2/2 or 5C4/2 instead, we can use them.
keninverse
I made a lifetime buy a little while ago and unfortunately I don't have enough to spare. There's been some talk about these finally reaching EOL status so there was a fairly large group buy facilitated by a member a little while ago. The only option may be to go with a cool audio clone but they only make the single 5c3 clone.
Don T
metasonix wrote:
It appears that the distributors who carried all Excelitas Vactrols are now claiming they are either out of stock with "no known leadtime", or they are no longer being manufactured.

https://www.alliedelec.com/excelitas-technologies-sensors-vtl5c3-2/702 19701/
http://www.newark.com/excelitas-tech/vtl5c3-2/optocoupler-resistor-250 0vrms/dp/97F1139

I need some. Does anyone here in DIY have at least 100-200 pcs of extras they can sell to us?

If you have 5C2/2 or 5C4/2 instead, we can use them.


Holy shit! Allied had 168 of them two days ago! I was just about to order... Dead Banana
thetwlo
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=144364&highlight=
andrewF
A more long term solution is to get the files from this thread and 3D print your own.
metasonix
I don't need a pretty enclosure, thanks. Can always improvise with heatshrink tubing or some other means.

The most difficult part of making one's own Vactrol is getting two LDRs that track together. It requires building a testing jig. Yes, the Chinese-made single LDRs are small and cheap. But the hand-labor of matching them is not. The dual-element /2 Vactrols were really good at tracking together and DIYing an equivalent is a PITA. And I have yet to find a current-day reliable source for a dual LDR.

Same goes for Silonex couplers--random samples are all over the place and they have to be matched. And they have much slower decay times.

For now I just need enough dual vactrols to finish up some leftover PC boards. After that the boards can be modified to take something else, whatever.
av500
the future is in China: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/FREE-SHIPPING-DIP4-VTL5C-M1210CLC-5PCS- in-Stock/32312665045.html

screaming goo yo screaming goo yo screaming goo yo

[damn, this was meant to be posted before you replied smile]
chocolatyshatner
Chris Electronics

Give these guys a call? Their website says they have 5C2/2s in stock for a lower price than the 5C3/2s as well.
metasonix
chocolatyshatner wrote:
Chris Electronics

Give these guys a call? Their website says they have 5C2/2s in stock for a lower price than the 5C3/2s as well.

Thanks, I put in a big order.
Sin_Phi
chocolatyshatner wrote:
Chris Electronics

Give these guys a call? Their website says they have 5C2/2s in stock for a lower price than the 5C3/2s as well.


Thanks for the link, had a moment of panic that there where no more vactrols left waah
papz
av500 wrote:
the future is in China: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/FREE-SHIPPING-DIP4-VTL5C-M1210CLC-5PCS- in-Stock/32312665045.html

Thanks for the link, I ordered a few, for this price it's worth a try.
Monobass
keninverse wrote:
I made a lifetime buy a little while ago and unfortunately I don't have enough to spare. There's been some talk about these finally reaching EOL status so there was a fairly large group buy facilitated by a member a little while ago. The only option may be to go with a cool audio clone but they only make the single 5c3 clone.


I shipped out 3100 vactrols in the group buy eek! eek! eek!
momo
chocolatyshatner wrote:
Chris Electronics

Give these guys a call? Their website says they have 5C2/2s in stock for a lower price than the 5C3/2s as well.


Amazing - but I tried to check out and shipping to me in London for x10 vactrols was nearly $200!! woah waah

Would anyone that has ordered a load of 5C3/2's by chance be willing to send me x5-10 from your stock just via regular post and I can cover all costs and pay a handling charge for your trouble? I'd be really indebted - please PM me if so - thanks.
Samuron
metasonix
Just heard back from Anita at Allied Electronics. She says:

Quote:
Factory came back that this part has a 1k pc order min now and this part will be obsoleted soon, did you want me to get a quote for 1k pcs? Let me know!


Which is "interesting" because everyone else claims they have been discontinued. Permanently.

Would anyone be interested in another group purchase? Or shall we wait for the actual Chinese manufacturer to start selling them directly on eBay or Alibaba? That could happen....
momo
Would be mega interested in a group buy - yes please!!
DomMorley
Group buy sounds like a plan. I missed out on the last one.
Amer1231
I'm game for a group buy
flts
av500 wrote:
the future is in China: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/FREE-SHIPPING-DIP4-VTL5C-M1210CLC-5PCS- in-Stock/32312665045.html]


note that those chinese ones are single vactrols though, those aren't discontinued (yet) - Coolaudio makes VTL5C3 for example. it's the dual matched ones that are becoming impossible to find.

I bought a big bunch of those Chinese ones from the link a while ago, and it seems they're all over the place. Fun for creative use or whenever "just put a vactrol there and try out which one sounds cool" is needed but not very useful if you need a spec that's guaranteed in any way.
Monobass
metasonix wrote:
Just heard back from Anita at Allied Electronics. She says:

Quote:
Factory came back that this part has a 1k pc order min now and this part will be obsoleted soon, did you want me to get a quote for 1k pcs? Let me know!


Which is "interesting" because everyone else claims they have been discontinued. Permanently.

Would anyone be interested in another group purchase? Or shall we wait for the actual Chinese manufacturer to start selling them directly on eBay or Alibaba? That could happen....


Yeah i'm definitely interested in another group purchase. I'll see what the UK Excelitas distributor says.
Maco
I can pinch a few moar very frustrating
Don T
metasonix wrote:
Just heard back from Anita at Allied Electronics. She says:

Quote:
Factory came back that this part has a 1k pc order min now and this part will be obsoleted soon, did you want me to get a quote for 1k pcs? Let me know!


Which is "interesting" because everyone else claims they have been discontinued. Permanently.


When the EOL notice came out a few months ago, it said "sunset" was in 2019...
Joe.
yah i'd be down for a group buy.
jhulk
im up for group buy
colorbars
Group buy sounds swell SlayerBadger!
pre55ure
Count me in if a group buy happens. w00t
spotta
Yep, I'd grab a few more thumbs up
regenbot
I'd take a few too
Reality Checkpoint
Me too.
Jonachi
I'm in
Monobass
Don T wrote:
When the EOL notice came out a few months ago, it said "sunset" was in 2019...


I just spoke to the UK Distributor Pacer, they insist Excelitas are no longer taking new orders and that Allied must have reserves... not sure why they wouldn't be openly selling them though?

Might be worth someone in the US contacting the Pacer US office too.
colorbars
What about a group buy from these guys? http://store.chriselectronics.com/product.php?productid=19811

EDIT: Yikes! There's 200 less than there was yesterday, they'll be sold out soon at this rate eek!
synthdude
I am interested in the group buy as well. You can never have enough vactrols!
Monobass
colorbars wrote:
What about a group buy from these guys? http://store.chriselectronics.com/product.php?productid=19811

EDIT: Yikes! There's 200 less than there was yesterday, they'll be sold out soon at this rate eek!


those are poor prices from a group buy, there's no point going to anyone other than the primary distributor if it is possible they're extending the sunset..
Paradigm X
id love to get in on another group buy, i missed the last one by a matter of hours.

i dont actually need any right now, but i would like to have a few up my sleeve, so to speak Mr. Green
PWM
I'm in for a group buy as well!
Samuron
Monobass wrote:
colorbars wrote:
What about a group buy from these guys? http://store.chriselectronics.com/product.php?productid=19811

EDIT: Yikes! There's 200 less than there was yesterday, they'll be sold out soon at this rate eek!


those are poor prices from a group buy, there's no point going to anyone other than the primary distributor if it is possible they're extending the sunset..

I was going to grab just a few more, but not for $17.45 shipping.
metasonix
colorbars wrote:
EDIT: Yikes! There's 200 less than there was yesterday, they'll be sold out soon at this rate eek!

That was me. Sorry.....I've got open POs to fill.

You gents who are raring to go for a (small part of a) group purchase ought to exhaust Chris Electronics or any other distributors/options before making a group order from Allied. I suspect that even in 1000-quantity, the 5C3/2 will not be any cheaper. They have already tried to screw small OEMs before as you can see at the beginning of the 2012 thread.

That's also why harassing Chinese sellers to carry them after Excelitas gives up might be productive. The factory in China making them probably has a contract with restrictions to prevent marketing via other channels, and when the contract expires (probably in 2019) they will find their own customers.
tjs
I'm in with a few 5C3s and 5C3/2s in case a group buy will happen.
metasonix
Found another distributor who has stock of Vactrols. They specialise in obsolete semiconductors and are not a "bargain". I got a quote of $8.40 apiece for 200 pieces.

http://www.4starelectronics.com/part_detail/VTL5C32.html
Don T
metasonix wrote:
Found another distributor who has stock of Vactrols. They specialise in obsolete semiconductors and are not a "bargain". I got a quote of $8.40 apiece for 200 pieces.

http://www.4starelectronics.com/part_detail/VTL5C32.html


No, not exactly a bargain, but better than the $14 each I saw at another retailer.
metasonix
So, to bring this up again.....

Now that Xvive has the 5C3/2, is anyone interested in a group purchase to get the price down? Price is $5.60 apiece for the minimum order of 500 pcs.
Repeater
metasonix wrote:
So, to bring this up again.....

Now that Xvive has the 5C3/2, is anyone interested in a group purchase to get the price down? Price is $5.60 apiece for the minimum order of 500 pcs.


Yep, I could use 20.
weedywhizz
Got VTL5C3 and VTL5C3/2 today.
Not a group buy but available here for 20% off untill the first 100 units of each are sold.
http://www.weedywhizz.com/buchla-cases-and-parts/buchla-diy-parts/part s-kits-buchla-modules/

Price includes 19% VAT. If you have a valid VAT ID or a customer outside the EU, VAT will be deducted. The shop atomatically checks your location to show the correct price.

Cheers
Steffen
monstrinho
Repeater wrote:
metasonix wrote:
So, to bring this up again.....

Now that Xvive has the 5C3/2, is anyone interested in a group purchase to get the price down? Price is $5.60 apiece for the minimum order of 500 pcs.


Yep, I could use 20.


I would be in for 20, possibly more depending on what the final price turned out to be.
metasonix
Bumping because I forgot to follow up. Been using the Silonex ones in the RK5 and hand-matching them--headache. Perhaps I should just give up on the 5C3/2, it's needed in the RK4 AND the S2000 AND the D2000. The Silonex ones have low-current LEDs making them easier to use in my circuits.

(PS, if you have been looking thru old threads, don't bother. Xvive is the only 5C3-compatible maker that is readily available. Perkin-Elmer/Excelitas is no longer making ANY CdS photoresistors or vactrols, although they do make a very costly photodiode they claim can replace a CdS cell. I've got doubts. Silonex and a couple of other companies no longer exist--what remains is now owned by a company called Luna, which claims to still make the Silonex products--at a greatly increased price.)

Also, has anyone actually seen samples of the rumored Coolaudio/whoever vactrol without cadmium?
cygmu
metasonix wrote:

Also, has anyone actually seen samples of the rumored Coolaudio/whoever vactrol without cadmium?


Is that what these are ?
https://modularaddict.com/max-vactrols

The page states that they are "not xvive" but doesn't explain further. It would be weird if a new manufacturer appeared who was using cadmium.
metasonix
cygmu wrote:
Is that what these are ?
https://modularaddict.com/max-vactrols

That would be okay for hobbyists but this is rather expensive to an OEM.....And I still find it amazing that anyone devised a "compliant" photocell that meets the tight ROHS standard. Some "experts" have claimed there is nothing else that can do the job but cadmium compounds. It's not as if anyone in Europe is grabbing obscure music electronics and testing it all for cadmium content "below 100 ppm by weight" whatever the hell that means. Plus there's "vactrols" popping out at all kinds of dealers who are claiming they are "different" from the others, but "the same" and "compatible". This whole thing is just really dodgy.
cygmu
metasonix wrote:
cygmu wrote:
Is that what these are ?
https://modularaddict.com/max-vactrols

That would be okay for hobbyists but this is rather expensive to an OEM


Sure. Like you (I think) I am just wondering what these things are. Presumably Modular Addict pay less than the retail price for them so an OEM could source them at lower cost, if they were usable parts from a reliable manufacturer. Or maybe it's a small stash of weird bits that someone found in a rubbish dump. It is indeed mysterious.
Don T
metasonix wrote:
Perkin-Elmer/Excelitas is no longer making ANY CdS photoresistors or vactrols, although they do make a very costly photodiode they claim can replace a CdS cell. I've got doubts.


That must me the most unhelpful data sheet I have ever seen. After reading it, and digging through the total lack of useful information, I share your doubts.

[EDIT]: I guess it doesn't matter if we doubt it or not, this link shows the part as being obsolete:

http://store.chriselectronics.com/product.php?productid=19797&cat=341& page=3
QuantumMechanakillWave
I have reached out to my contact at X-Vive to acquire samples. I will post here when they arrive. Also, I am happy to do some tests, if anyone has original to which we can compare the results. Mattson Mini Modular

I should also mention that I have had non-RoHS samples in the past, and they worked as expected in my project. -this is obviously not a very scientific statement, so I will acquire samples and we can go from there.
papz
Dave Brown already compared : https://modularsynthesis.com/vactrols/vactrols.htm
metasonix
From an email exchange, some more of what I think or have found (which ain't much):
Quote:
> I am it sure how they managed the RoHS version. I wonder if they went through the legal process of getting an exemption for being irreplaceable, and are just charging a premium for those that are being listed as such..

Many companies have already tried--in 2013 the EU allegedly denied all of them, when phase 2 of the restrictions went into effect. They had allowed CdS cells in 2011 but supposedly removed the exemption later. Either OEMs meet the ROHS restrictions or they can't sell in the EU anywhere, period. No exceptions and no exemptions. It's a badly-written law for a world that is more complex than the EU regulators seem to be able to understand. I've been taking exemptions for leaded glass in vacuum tubes and the "Spare parts for electronic equipment in the market before July 1, 2006" thing, plus the kit exemption (for modules), and never had ANY problems shipping to Europe.

There are exemptions you could drive a locomotive thru. (Locomotives are exempt from ROHS because they are "motive equipment". Lead batteries are still okay for vehicles. Ha ha ha.)

Some other mfrs. of analog music gear have been having literal panic attacks over this and can't be convinced they aren't going to jail. (Even American ones!) I've told them they can always claim their synth modules are "kit parts requiring assembly", thus are exempt. Nope, they prefer to be paranoid. Go to NAMM and ask around at the "analog superbooth".

The "Cool Audio" guy (or is it the Macron guy, or are they the same company?) is claiming they have a vactrol that meets the "100 PPM or less by weight" regulation. I do not know if that is even possible, although CdS cells were always made by a cheap and wasteful process anyway, so it might be possible to make a cell with a very tiny amount of CdS.

There are websites full of blather about this, complete with the only "special exemptions" listed. Also read the Wikipedia article, which doesn't list all the exemptions but does have a "Criticism" section with valid info. It's difficult to Google it because there are dozens of outdated web pages.
http://www.rohsguide.com/rohs-categories.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restriction_of_Hazardous_Substances_Dire ctive#Criticism

There is an "official EU web page" that claims to list the ROHS exemptions. Good luck figuring them out:
http://ec.europa.eu/environment/waste/rohs_eee/legis_en.htm

Right there in the "consolidated version" it says:
Quote:
Cadmium in photoresistors for analogue optocouplers applied in professional audio equipment
Expires on 31 December 2013
QuantumMechanakillWave
papz wrote:
Dave Brown already compared : https://modularsynthesis.com/vactrols/vactrols.htm


Awesome! applause
metasonix
QuantumMechanakillWave wrote:
papz wrote:
Dave Brown already compared : https://modularsynthesis.com/vactrols/vactrols.htm

Awesome!

I would say: nice, but not awesome. You will learn more about the quality of a vactrol by testing 50-100 sample pieces and plotting their voltage-to-resistance curves.

I just finished testing and matching 200 Silonexes from surplus. Obvious OEM rejects, they vary more than 2000% in v-r at a single test point. Such crap; 20% were too bad to use. Apply voltage to the LED and watch the cell resistance slowly drift upwards forever. Some had no LED polarity markings and a few were marked backwards. Makes you want to hate Canadians, eh?
cygmu
I still don't know who makes the ones that Modular Addict sells, how they perform, or whether they contain cadmium, but here is an excerpt from an exchange seen on Facebook between Logan Erickson (who works at Modular Addict) and a potential buyer:

Quote:

Buyer: They just say "not xVive" on them. Any ideas what make they are?
Logan: We have them made for us to spec
Buyer: Oh right - so like for like with excelitas then?
Logan: Huh? I don’t understand the question. We used the old spec sheet of what everyone wants. And said... “make them to this spec and consistent” the rest is IP I can’t talk bout.


The lack of information around these is a bit odd and doesn't fill me with confidence but surely if someone has a strong need for these parts it might be worth investigating.
monstrinho
cygmu wrote:
I still don't know who makes the ones that Modular Addict sells, how they perform, or whether they contain cadmium, but here is an excerpt from an exchange seen on Facebook between Logan Erickson (who works at Modular Addict) and a potential buyer:

Quote:

Buyer: They just say "not xVive" on them. Any ideas what make they are?
Logan: We have them made for us to spec
Buyer: Oh right - so like for like with excelitas then?
Logan: Huh? I don’t understand the question. We used the old spec sheet of what everyone wants. And said... “make them to this spec and consistent” the rest is IP I can’t talk bout.


The lack of information around these is a bit odd and doesn't fill me with confidence but surely if someone has a strong need for these parts it might be worth investigating.


The bit about “...the rest is IP...” is very, very odd. It’s an LDR and an LED in a sealed package. Not rocket science. How much “IP” is there, really?
av500
monstrinho wrote:

The bit about “...the rest is IP...” is very, very odd. It’s an LDR and an LED in a sealed package. Not rocket science. How much “IP” is there, really?


because it's just an LDR and a LED anybody can make them consistently up to specs, right?
metasonix
av500 wrote:
monstrinho wrote:
The bit about “...the rest is IP...” is very, very odd. It’s an LDR and an LED in a sealed package. Not rocket science. How much “IP” is there, really?

because it's just an LDR and a LED anybody can make them consistently up to specs, right?

Anyone can make them. They are low-tech except for the LED which is readily available on open markets anyway. Any patents ran out long ago.

Logan is just being "mysterious" about his precious circuit designs, something that you see routinely from certain people in the modular world (which is full of crass and blatant copying from vintage designs, not to mention DSP-based modules which would be very easy to reverse-engineer). None of this shit is "secret" or even that difficult to duplicate.

It reminds me that lately I haven't seen very much of the miserable old tricks of the past, like potting circuits in plastic resin (ARP did a lot of that) and sandpapering numbers off semiconductors (Technosaurus and Sherman). It doesn't stop a determined thief from reverse-engineering but it DOES discourage repair and make customers angry.
Don T
metasonix wrote:

Logan is just being "mysterious" about his precious circuit designs, something that you see routinely from certain people in the modular world (which is full of crass and blatant copying from vintage designs, not to mention DSP-based modules which would be very easy to reverse-engineer). None of this shit is "secret" or even that difficult to duplicate.


Funny hearing L.E. comment on "IP" as if it's something to be protected, but I'd probably better stop this comment here...
appliancide
metasonix wrote:

It reminds me that lately I haven't seen very much of the miserable old tricks of the past, like potting circuits in plastic resin (ARP did a lot of that) and sandpapering numbers off semiconductors (Technosaurus and Sherman). It doesn't stop a determined thief from reverse-engineering but it DOES discourage repair and make customers angry.


Actually, it appears that randomsource are doing this on their semi-DIY Serge PCBs:

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=202866
snufkin
appliancide wrote:
metasonix wrote:

It reminds me that lately I haven't seen very much of the miserable old tricks of the past, like potting circuits in plastic resin (ARP did a lot of that) and sandpapering numbers off semiconductors (Technosaurus and Sherman). It doesn't stop a determined thief from reverse-engineering but it DOES discourage repair and make customers angry.


Actually, it appears that randomsource are doing this on their semi-DIY Serge PCBs:

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=202866


The peoples sanda-sizer hihi

Also it's annoying modular addict wont just come out and say they are having one of the current manufacturers skim off the most adherent vactrols or whatever. I would never purchase from a supplier that doesn't make it clear what the parts they are selling actually are.
BugBrand
metasonix wrote:
I just finished testing and matching 200 Silonexes from surplus. Obvious OEM rejects, they vary more than 2000% in v-r at a single test point. Such crap; 20% were too bad to use. Apply voltage to the LED and watch the cell resistance slowly drift upwards forever. Some had no LED polarity markings and a few were marked backwards. Makes you want to hate Canadians, eh?


Somehow about 10+ years ago I was in contact with the original silonex designer and I remember him commenting how the spec was so wide you could drive a bus through it.
snufkin
BugBrand wrote:
metasonix wrote:
I just finished testing and matching 200 Silonexes from surplus. Obvious OEM rejects, they vary more than 2000% in v-r at a single test point. Such crap; 20% were too bad to use. Apply voltage to the LED and watch the cell resistance slowly drift upwards forever. Some had no LED polarity markings and a few were marked backwards. Makes you want to hate Canadians, eh?


Somehow about 10+ years ago I was in contact with the original silonex designer and I remember him commenting how the spec was so wide you could drive a bus through it.


hihi
metasonix
Missed this Paul Schreiber FB post from March:
Quote:
Now that I have "formal proof" of a RoHS compatible dual Vactrol that is "real" (in sampling), I am considering making a Euro version of the MOTM-401 Triple Resonant filter.

The filter has 3 independent BP filters and a dual VC-LFO. The circuit is based on the Korg PS-3100 'resonator section'.

The main issue is cost of the aforementioned dual Vactrols, and 3 per module is required. This is a large 'up-front' investment because I can't use them in another module, and not exactly eBay surplus either. I have to order from China directly is my guess (again, not exactly a Mouser top seller).

The only thing 'close' is the Mannequins '3 Sisters' but that lacks the dual LFO and not Vactrol (I think). Plus, I didn't design it so there's that factor smile

There are many MOTM-410 demos on YouTube, here is one that has fancy Keysight scope showing the results, plus the video goes over different sounds. JL Rice has several as well.

The price at retail would be about the same as the E440 filter.

Thoughts?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Te0_uAFjUo

It re-appeared in my feed, because of an update today:
Quote:
Phaedrus Dk Any news on THIS, Paul? :-)

Paul T Schreiber no, I will ping them but it appears to have died off (sadly)

So much for THAT.
metasonix
I'm still willing to make a group buy of Xvive 5C3/2s with anyone. I can front the money but want some positive responses first.

PS: any ideas on how to build a small music keyboard with off-shelf parts would be welcome. I'd make a "flagship" mono synth, except for pesky problems like people wanting it to be totally plug-in-and-play and self contained. It has to look at least vaguely like a piano keyboard to keep people happy. Fatar wants too much $ and their products are all wired for matrix scanning, I'd prefer to have a single-bus scheme instead.
QuantumMechanakillWave
I have received the X-Vive samples. I will be doing some tests over the next couple of weeks. Let me know if there are any tests that you would like me to try. I only have 4 of each of the following:

5c3
5c3 RoHS
5c3/2

I guess they HAVE NOT made an RoHS 5c3/2.. I misunderstood what she had said. d'oh!
metasonix
QuantumMechanakillWave wrote:
I have received the X-Vive samples. I will be doing some tests over the next couple of weeks. Let me know if there are any tests that you would like me to try.

Check them for consistency from sample to sample--that's prob. more important than anything else for manufacturing.
QuantumMechanakillWave
Will do. I also plan to plot their response to changing voltages

metasonix wrote:
QuantumMechanakillWave wrote:
I have received the X-Vive samples. I will be doing some tests over the next couple of weeks. Let me know if there are any tests that you would like me to try.

Check them for consistency from sample to sample--that's prob. more important than anything else for manufacturing.
metasonix
Bumping--well, did you test those samples?
QuantumMechanakillWave
Unfortunately not! Working through a number of family issues. I should be back into the DIY groove very soon! They did not send samples of RoHS 5c3/2, but she said that she would look into it. Also, she did mention that she would be fine with 100pc orders of 5c3/2’s.

metasonix wrote:
Bumping--well, did you test those samples?
fuzzbass
I'm not nearly as versed in vactrols as you folks are. Recently I started repairing an old and somewhat odd Mesa Boogie amp that has four vactrols. These are used as silent switching elements (like channel switching, but this amp has only one channel, and the vactrols reprogram the circuit for high gain). All four vactrols are different, but I think they were all grabbed from a pile, since this amp just wants them ON or OFF and not in between.

Maybe the crummy documentation for vactrols has something to do with the legacy vactrol market generally not caring about all the interim states, the way we do.

Just a thought.
ps feel free to stomp my ass if heresy I speak.
metasonix
fuzzbass wrote:
I'm not nearly as versed in vactrols as you folks are. Recently I started repairing an old and somewhat odd Mesa Boogie amp that has four vactrols. These are used as silent switching elements (like channel switching, but this amp has only one channel, and the vactrols reprogram the circuit for high gain). All four vactrols are different, but I think they were all grabbed from a pile, since this amp just wants them ON or OFF and not in between.

Please, don't start me on Mesa-Boogie. Randall Smith owns patents on the use of vactrols to either switch functions in tube guitar amps, or as linear elements to allow "presets" in a tube preamp circuit. He spent a lot of money to get those patents and a lot more to sue people who copied his circuit designs. In the 1970s and 80s there were dozens of attempted copycat makers.

Here's a list of his patents, which I don't think is complete. Note how stupid/trivial many of these ideas are. "It's perfectly legal" to take out patents on trivial ideas.
http://mesaboogie.com/support/patents.html

And he's still taking out new ones.....
https://patents.justia.com/assignee/mesa-boogie
DSC
metasonix wrote:
I'm still willing to make a group buy of Xvive 5C3/2s with anyone. I can front the money but want some positive responses first.


You still down for a group buy? Any idea on pricing?
metasonix
DSC wrote:
You still down for a group buy? Any idea on pricing?

Yes, and can you get some other prospective customers? I think they will end up costing DIYers about $7 apiece. (please, find me a cheaper source!!)
monstrinho
metasonix wrote:
DSC wrote:
You still down for a group buy? Any idea on pricing?

Yes, and can you get some other prospective customers? I think they will end up costing DIYers about $7 apiece. (please, find me a cheaper source!!)


So which ones are we talking about, exactly? There are so many Chinese "clones" floating around on Ebay and elsewhere that I've held off buying until I can verify that they are actually good. I'm interested if these are verified as actually a drop-in replacement for the original.
metasonix
monstrinho wrote:
So which ones are we talking about, exactly? There are so many Chinese "clones" floating around on Ebay and elsewhere that I've held off buying until I can verify that they are actually good. I'm interested if these are verified as actually a drop-in replacement for the original.

I'm NOT going to buy anything from eBay. Only a fool chases after Chinese gray market to save a few cents. The plan was to purchase from Xvive and ONLY Xvive. Last I knew their minimum order was 500 pieces.

http://www.xviveaudio.com/productInfo.asp?id=358

You got any better ideas? I'm ordering a sample from Modular Addict just out of curiosity.
cygmu
metasonix wrote:

You got any better ideas? I'm ordering a sample from Modular Addict just out of curiosity.


I will be very interested to hear what you find about the MA vactrols.

If they are usable and MA are able to offer you bulk pricing so much the better. There's a note to that effect on the web page,
DSC
metasonix wrote:
monstrinho wrote:
So which ones are we talking about, exactly? There are so many Chinese "clones" floating around on Ebay and elsewhere that I've held off buying until I can verify that they are actually good. I'm interested if these are verified as actually a drop-in replacement for the original.

I'm NOT going to buy anything from eBay. Only a fool chases after Chinese gray market to save a few cents. The plan was to purchase from Xvive and ONLY Xvive. Last I knew their minimum order was 500 pieces.

http://www.xviveaudio.com/productInfo.asp?id=358

You got any better ideas? I'm ordering a sample from Modular Addict just out of curiosity.


I'm down, any idea on pricing at that quantity?
metasonix
DSC wrote:
I'm down, any idea on pricing at that quantity?

From Xvive? I would have to buy 500 pieces and your cost will be $6.50 apiece plus shipping. I'm going to ask that anyone wanting some must agree to purchase at least 25 pieces. We only need about 200 pcs. for our own production--that amount will last at least 2 years. It would be nice to not cough up close to $3000 for parts and be stuck with them all.

If you don't like that, go to Modular Addict. They charge $8.99 apiece and will apparently give you a 10% discount if you buy "quantity", whatever that means.
DSC
I'm in for 50 pieces. That will also last me for a little more than 2 years. Hope others will chime in on what they need and we can make the 500 minimum.
Synth of Darkness
I'd be in for 50 pieces at $6.50 each.
metasonix
I've tested the MA vactrol and it works okay. Will try to order more after the holidays and report back.
DSC
Thank you for your efforts!
metasonix
We got more ModularAddict 5C3/2s and tested them in an S-2000, worked fine....however something about these things cracks me up. They have the word "SILONEX" molded into the bottom.....



This is the top side. Now I have NO idea where these are coming from.
jestern77
Hi any news on this? group buy of Xvive?
Excelitas are really not available anymore?
papz
Excelitas have a richer sound only if they have golden legs. Mr. Green
metasonix
reviving this thread because Modular Addict, who I would PREFER to buy 5C3/2s from, has been out of stock for months. Synthcube has also been out of stock. I was forced to buy Xvive couplers from Thonk at extra cost. And Erthenvar closed their doors.

Having real trouble finding other sources. Antique Electronic Supply and New Sensor only carry single-element models.
acinonyx
If time it's not a factor and the vactrols aren't in stock then DIY..

This comes from a fellow wiggler: sirjpink

"Why spend €€€'s or $$$'s on ready-made vactrols when you can very easily craft your own!?!"

https://github.com/coriolisinstruments/EurorackModules/tree/master/Mak ingVactrols

cool
BugBrand
Does anyone know when Perkin Elmer stopped making the VTL5C3/2? Was it within the last 5 years or so or further back?
acinonyx
Perkin Elmer stopped making them between 2010 and 2012.

Articles worth reading:

https://modularsynthesis.com/vactrols/vactrols.htm

https://sdiy.info/wiki/Vactrol

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resistive_opto-isolator
xonetacular
what's up with these ebay "xvive" 5c3s?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/5pcs-VTL5C3-Xvive-Audio-Opto-Coupler/39225714 8367?hash=item5b545915cf:g:Y0AAAOSwzMlchhaS

$1 a piece but that dont look like xvive...
monstrinho
xonetacular wrote:
what's up with these ebay "xvive" 5c3s?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/5pcs-VTL5C3-Xvive-Audio-Opto-Coupler/39225714 8367?hash=item5b545915cf:g:Y0AAAOSwzMlchhaS

$1 a piece but that dont look like xvive...



Chinese fakes of unknown quality...
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