Live 9 issue affecting Silent Way VSTs - info and workaround

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os
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Live 9 issue affecting Silent Way VSTs - info and workaround

Post by os » Thu Mar 24, 2016 4:04 am

I've become aware of an issue in Live 9 and its VST hosting which affects the correct operation of Silent Way plug-ins that drive the ES-4/40/5.

Previous versions of Live are unaffected, as are Audio Units.

Basically, Live mutes the outputs of VST plug-ins when it detects their output has fallen below a certain level, assuming the signal is an audio signal and therefore is too quiet to be useful.

The Silent Way plug-ins however output non-audio signals where every bit matters, so this behaviour is undesirable.

The result is that if SW plug-ins are only driving
- output/expansion header 5 on the ES-4 or ES-40, to
- expansion headers 3 & 6 on the ES-5
then Live might decide to mute the outputs.

I'm talking to Ableton about this, and they're being quite helpful. If this issue affects you and you'd like to add your voice to the request for an early resolution, please contact their support quoting my 'Case ableton1503245'.

They've provided a workaround, which is to edit the Live options file:
https://www.ableton.com/en/help/article ... file-live/

and to insert the following line:
-_AudioOffTimeInSamples=691200000

Then once the plug-in has 'woken up' Live once by outputting a 'strong' signal, Live won't shut it off.

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tom moody
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Post by tom moody » Sat Mar 26, 2016 8:08 pm

Thanks for this fix! I created the Options.txt file and Output 5 of the ES-4 is working normally.

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Post by ipassenger » Mon Apr 04, 2016 9:40 am

Hi,

Could this be related to the sync issue I mentioned a while back with ES5 + Ableton Live 9 (when using a negative clock offset and the ES5, the sync doesn't start for a loop or two) ?

Cheers

Ross

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os
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Post by os » Mon Apr 04, 2016 9:41 am

If the sync was on ES-5 headers 3 or 6, then yes.

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Post by ipassenger » Mon Apr 04, 2016 12:31 pm

Its midi clock sync to my Elektron MD/MnM (one midi thru to the other as the clock sync delay is roughly the same for both of em) just on one of the main ES5 outs.

I had figured it was to do with the way Live had changed latency handling on plugins etc but when I saw this I wondered.

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Post by nrvana8775 » Sat Dec 17, 2016 10:31 pm

I realized that 2.5.5 was causing issues with my ES3. Would the above have the same effect on the ES3?

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os
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Post by os » Sun Dec 18, 2016 4:01 am

No. The ES-3 is basically using regular audio, so being shut down when the output is very low wouldn't be a problem.

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Post by neoxtrope » Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:45 am

This workaround also resolved an issue I was having sending a "sparse" (one 1/16th per bar) SW Step LFO to ES-5 socket 8 via the SW ES-5 Controller.

It would play on the first loop then give up unless I opened the Step LFO editor. It would also play fine if I added more non-zero steps.

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Matos
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Post by Matos » Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:57 am

Is this still an ableton issue or has it been resolved?

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Post by os » Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:00 pm

I believe it's still an issue.

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Post by neoxtrope » Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:21 am

Sorry, should have said - this was in Ableton 9.7.1.

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Post by Tilmann » Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:11 am

seems so...

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kathinka.
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Post by kathinka. » Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:01 pm

how is it with ABLETON 10?

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tom moody
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Post by tom moody » Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:08 am

I had applied the "fix" (described above) for Ableton 9.x and recently upgraded to 10. My preferences folder still has the recommended options.txt file. The gate expander on output/expansion header 5 on the ES-40 has to be "woken up" with a "strong signal" as described above, then it stays "awake" as long as you are using the gate expander. (The signal seems to time out and go back to sleep after a longish period of non-use but I haven't really tested that.)
Last edited by tom moody on Thu Oct 25, 2018 6:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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kathinka.
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Post by kathinka. » Thu Oct 25, 2018 2:53 am

tom moody wrote:I had applied the "fix" (described above) for Ableton 9.x and recently upgraded to 10. My preferences folder still has the recommended options.txt file. The gate expander on output/expansion header 5 on the ES-40 has to be "woken up" with a "strong signal" as described below, then it stays "awake" as long as you are using the gate expander. (The signal seems to time out and go back to sleep after a longish period of non-use but I haven't really tested that.)
thx for the info! :confused:

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Re: Live 9 issue affecting Silent Way VSTs - info and workar

Post by DJMaytag » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:45 pm

os wrote:I've become aware of an issue in Live 9 and its VST hosting which affects the correct operation of Silent Way plug-ins that drive the ES-4/40/5.

Previous versions of Live are unaffected, as are Audio Units.

Basically, Live mutes the outputs of VST plug-ins when it detects their output has fallen below a certain level, assuming the signal is an audio signal and therefore is too quiet to be useful.

The Silent Way plug-ins however output non-audio signals where every bit matters, so this behaviour is undesirable.

The result is that if SW plug-ins are only driving
- output/expansion header 5 on the ES-4 or ES-40, to
- expansion headers 3 & 6 on the ES-5
then Live might decide to mute the outputs.

I'm talking to Ableton about this, and they're being quite helpful. If this issue affects you and you'd like to add your voice to the request for an early resolution, please contact their support quoting my 'Case ableton1503245'.

They've provided a workaround, which is to edit the Live options file:
https://www.ableton.com/en/help/article ... file-live/

and to insert the following line:
-_AudioOffTimeInSamples=691200000

Then once the plug-in has 'woken up' Live once by outputting a 'strong' signal, Live won't shut it off.
It appears as if a similar problem is happening in Reason, where it's possible for Output 1 on both ES-5 headers 2 and 5 might not work properly, as well as headers 3 & 6 completely - UNLESS there is a signal being sent to headers 1 & 4 to unmask the low level signals being muted.
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