Pioneer TORAIZ SP-16 Sampler

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DiscoDevil
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Post by DiscoDevil » Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:48 am

Imagine a CV breakout box and just a midi to CV convertor so you could program in CCs and convert them to control the analog section of the SP. Someone needs to get on that.

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Post by Panason » Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:40 am

I was going to say the same thing! Are there points on the PCB for CV control of the filters?

Could use a MIDI track to send out the CCs...

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Post by DiscoDevil » Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:04 pm

Panason wrote:I was going to say the same thing! Are there points on the PCB for CV control of the filters?

Could use a MIDI track to send out the CCs...
There are clearly labeled solder points for each section on the PCB but I'm not skilled enough to know what you can do with them.

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Post by DiscoDevil » Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:22 am

Another live set courtesy of the SP-16.

https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/644910054

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Post by DiscoDevil » Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:10 am

And yet another. This one is a collaboration with Autokinetic. We used 2x Toraiz SP-16s plus a bunch of other gear. We got around the sync drift issue by using one SP-16 as the master clock and loading it up with a majority of the timestretched loops and heavy pattern/scene changes. The other SP-16 was slaved but only one pattern per scene was used. Timing stayed tight throughout the nearly 1.5hr set.

All original music except the last tune which is a "cover". Performed live Somewhere in Wisconsin @ Even Furthur 2019.

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Post by hez » Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:23 am

Apologies if this has already been covered in the thread (I read back a few pages and couldn't see a clear answer), but is there any way to just trigger loops up to e.g. 16 bars long and have them play constantly until stopped, Ableton style?

I'd love to have a sort of stems box that syncs nicely with CDJs so that I can stem out some of my own material and cut interesting loops from other tunes, with a bit more live control than just throwing them on a 3rd or 4th CDJ. However, 4 bars (or 8 bars with the weird pattern chain trick/LFO workaround) is a bit limited for the kind of long melodic progressions/pads in my music.

If I understand the (very limited) documentation, the 1.5 live recording/looper functionality seems to enable straight loop playing functionality (beyond the 4 bar pattern sequencer limits), but only for audio recorded live, not for samples already stored on the box/loaded from a USB stick?

Cheers

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Post by DiscoDevil » Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:34 am

hez wrote:Apologies if this has already been covered in the thread (I read back a few pages and couldn't see a clear answer), but is there any way to just trigger loops up to e.g. 16 bars long and have them play constantly until stopped, Ableton style?

I'd love to have a sort of stems box that syncs nicely with CDJs so that I can stem out some of my own material and cut interesting loops from other tunes, with a bit more live control than just throwing them on a 3rd or 4th CDJ. However, 4 bars (or 8 bars with the weird pattern chain trick/LFO workaround) is a bit limited for the kind of long melodic progressions/pads in my music.

If I understand the (very limited) documentation, the 1.5 live recording/looper functionality seems to enable straight loop playing functionality (beyond the 4 bar pattern sequencer limits), but only for audio recorded live, not for samples already stored on the box/loaded from a USB stick?

Cheers
You are limited to 64 seconds for sample length. The MPC LIVE might be more what you're looking for. The SP-16 sequencer is pretty well tied to 4bar loops and variations.

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Post by hez » Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:56 am

DiscoDevil wrote:You are limited to 64 seconds for sample length. The MPC LIVE might be more what you're looking for. The SP-16 sequencer is pretty well tied to 4bar loops and variations.
Thanks for the swift response! 64 seconds is definitely more than enough for me in terms of absolute length, it's just the 4 bar thing that's a bit of a killer.

The MPC Live looks fantastic but the plug and play sync capability of the SP-16 is the biggest sell for me - my sets will still be mainly CDJ based but being able to add a fairly portable live element on top, that isn't dependent on MIDI sync, is pretty attractive. I tend to move tempo quite a lot on the CDJs and being able to quickly turn sync on and off is really handy when switching in and out of ambient sections etc. - I fear relying on MIDI for this sort of performance would just lead to endless troubleshooting and pain :lol:

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Post by Panason » Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:36 am

hez wrote:(or 8 bars with the weird pattern chain trick/LFO workaround)
What trick is that?

Re: CDJs : I would check that the DJ Link thing actually works properly before buying....

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Post by DiscoDevil » Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:45 am

Panason wrote:
hez wrote:(or 8 bars with the weird pattern chain trick/LFO workaround)
What trick is that?

Re: CDJs : I would check that the DJ Link thing actually works properly before buying....

If you've got longer samples you can use slices or sample start times modulated by an LFO to start the sample from different points.

You can take a 16 bar sample and slice it up in to 4 bar slices and then use 4 patterns to play all 4 parts back to back or you can use an LFO to trigger the long sample from a different start point each time the 4 bar pattern loops around.

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Post by Panason » Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:53 am

Oh cool. I was doing something similar with setting a square LFO on the velocity of individual hits to get them to not sound every time, so that I can get similar results to using the periodic trigs on the Elektron boxes, ie variations within a 4 bar loop. it's a little fiddly as you have to set the LFO phase and speed just right.

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Post by dubonaire » Sun Sep 01, 2019 2:08 am

Has anyone come across this problem?

I can't turn off the internal sequencer and sync and run/stop externally. The tempo indicator is greyed out when I select the MIDI sync option but that is the only change that happens.

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Post by Panason » Sun Sep 01, 2019 5:22 am

Have you gone through all the settings?

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Post by dubonaire » Sun Sep 01, 2019 5:26 am

Panason wrote:Have you gone through all the settings?
Unless I'm mistaken, only one setting needs to be changed.

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Post by Panason » Sun Sep 01, 2019 5:38 am

Nooo, there's 4 relevant settings! MIDI interface select (DIN or USB) , Sync source select, Start/stop enable and Sync enable. :deadbanana:

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Post by DiscoDevil » Tue Sep 03, 2019 8:10 am

dubonaire wrote:Has anyone come across this problem?

I can't turn off the internal sequencer and sync and run/stop externally. The tempo indicator is greyed out when I select the MIDI sync option but that is the only change that happens.
What is MIDI I/F SELECT set to? Try switching between DIN MIDI and DIN MIDI THRU H/W and see if that makes a difference.

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Post by dubonaire » Wed Sep 04, 2019 2:26 am

DiscoDevil wrote:
dubonaire wrote:Has anyone come across this problem?

I can't turn off the internal sequencer and sync and run/stop externally. The tempo indicator is greyed out when I select the MIDI sync option but that is the only change that happens.
What is MIDI I/F SELECT set to? Try switching between DIN MIDI and DIN MIDI THRU H/W and see if that makes a difference.
Thanks! I did. I was hoping you might have a solution because I'd describe you as a super user. Really weird. It was working fine. I actually hadn't turned it on for a few months because I've been busy making samples for it and turned it on last weekend and found this. (My available time makes this a slow process.) In my live set it will be the master, but for what I'm doing at the moment which is kind of finessing the set around the samples with some additional sounds being driven by a Cirklon I really want it to be the slave.

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Post by DiscoDevil » Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:19 am

dubonaire wrote:
DiscoDevil wrote:
dubonaire wrote:Has anyone come across this problem?

I can't turn off the internal sequencer and sync and run/stop externally. The tempo indicator is greyed out when I select the MIDI sync option but that is the only change that happens.
What is MIDI I/F SELECT set to? Try switching between DIN MIDI and DIN MIDI THRU H/W and see if that makes a difference.
Thanks! I did. I was hoping you might have a solution because I'd describe you as a super user. Really weird. It was working fine. I actually hadn't turned it on for a few months because I've been busy making samples for it and turned it on last weekend and found this. (My available time makes this a slow process.) In my live set it will be the master, but for what I'm doing at the moment which is kind of finessing the set around the samples with some additional sounds being driven by a Cirklon I really want it to be the slave.
Maybe backup all your projects and do a factory reset on it?Image

Factory reset is "page 12" using the back and home buttons to move between pages.

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Post by dubonaire » Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:38 pm

DiscoDevil wrote:
Factory reset is "page 12" using the back and home buttons to move between pages.
Thanks! That's a good idea, I'll try that. I did try re-installing the last OS but that didn't help, hadn't actually thought to do a factory reset.

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Post by dubonaire » Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:50 am

I tried the factory reset, and it didn't really behave like it actually did a factory reset. I got the second screen below instantaneously, and when I turned it off and on again it was in exactly the same state as before I tried to do the reset, with version 1.50, all the samples and projects available and the last project loaded.

Do you have a copy of the service manual and if so would you mind sharing it? I missed the chance of downloading it when it was available.


Image


Image

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Post by Panason » Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:21 am

Hope you got it sorted, Dubs.

I finally came round to trying remote control of patterns... This is done wth CC32 which is a "bank select" message in the archaic world of MIDI....

I was flummoxed before because Ableton Live's MIDI CC menu in the clip envelope box doesn't offer CC32... but recently someone on that awful GS forum mentioned that CC32 is sent out by Live from the Program Change box in the clip launch options.

I tried it out and found that entering values in the actual "Program" field does nothing. You need to input the pattern number in the "Sub" field. I've also been inputting the Scene number in the "Bank" field but haven't tried changing scenes with that yet.

Thankfully the timing is good and the SP16 responds instantly to these messages. It looks like you can even change patterns quite rapidly and not just on whole bar steps, if you set the Pattern quantize setting to "step" :cloud:

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Post by dubonaire » Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:53 pm

[quote="Panason"]Hope you got it sorted, Dubs./quote]

Thanks! No I haven't. Will see if contacting Pioneer DJ will help.

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Post by revtor » Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:00 am

New firmware is out.
Big change - 2fx slots per track
Some MIDI things.. not sure about the details here.
No delete samples..!!?

2 effects is nice at least!
-Steve

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Post by Panason » Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:23 am

Thanks for heads up...

Ok , the only substantial improvement here is the second FX slot.

The rest is pretty meh.. unless they fixed the sync issue when using lots of timestretched samples that DiscoDevil reported.


Multiple tracks can now be assigned to the same MIDI channel using the MIDI IN channel settings.
MIDI-related sync and performance settings.
Now able to use an underscore on the software keyboard hoorray!

Such a nice keyboard, shame we can't use it to name MIDI tracks or CC assignments...etc etc.
Still no step copy.... just WHY.

I wonder if the touch strip bug that was introduced by 1.50 has been fixed.

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Post by DiscoDevil » Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:36 am

From what I gather, MIDI data is now correctly passed THRU from input to outputs on all tracks!!! I'd have been happy with just that. A 2nd FX slot is MAJOR. Feel like going home sick from work to install!

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