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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Left side of the 216
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Buchla, EMS & Serge  
Author Left side of the 216
pre55ure
I don't get it.

Specifically the three touchplates on the left and the associated controls.
I mean I understand what it/they do, technically. But I'm having a hard time understanding the intended use. Anyone have any thoughts or tips or advice on it?
Is it totally awesome and I'm just missing the point? seriously, i just don't get it
Don T
pre55ure wrote:
I don't get it.

Specifically the three touchplates on the left and the associated controls.
I mean I understand what it/they do, technically. But I'm having a hard time understanding the intended use. Anyone have any thoughts or tips or advice on it?
Is it totally awesome and I'm just missing the point? seriously, i just don't get it


vgermuse posted a really cool demo vid for the 216 awhile back, but I have no idea where and what thread until the search engine comes back online. He may even have it on youtube, I haven't looked. Just wanted to let you know it was out there for viewing if you can find it.
nohsodesu
You might try this -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zFZWJd_4Vw
vgermuse


And here is an overview and explanation

https://vimeo.com/137867291

and another tip

https://vimeo.com/137760496

And my free Buchla Mind, Beginners Mind series is here

https://vimeo.com/album/3542094

w00t
pre55ure
Thanks guys,
And a particular thanks to vgermuse for posting his Buchla series. I had watched all of those a few weeks ago, but hadn't finished my 216 at that point so didn't remember much about it.

Anyway, the left side still seems a bit weird to me, it just seems like there are so many more useful things those pads and associated knobs could be used for... but it is what it is, and the other section is incredibly fun to play with.

One last question, has anyone else out there with one of these tried lacquering the keys? I noticed that vgermuse's 216 seemed to have much better pressure sensitivity than mine.
vgermuse
pre55ure wrote:
Thanks guys,
Anyway, the left side still seems a bit weird to me, it just seems like there are so many more useful things those pads and associated knobs could be used for... .


Most welcome, thanks for checking out the series.

I see the 3 pads and knobs as 3 independent programmable presets.

1) could send to 227 to control the speed of speaker rotation in quadraphonic space -- 3 different speeds, or you could grab a knob an improve the speed.
2) send to "keyboard in" in put of 258 or 295 to do overall transposition.
3) send to 257 or 256 mixed input to have 3 different programmed mixes of CV processing, oh, and of course grab a knob and freestyle.
4) send to 277, 275, 288 individually or just to one to change delay and reverb.
5) send to "attack" or "decay" in of cycling 281 for different speeds/envelopes
6) . . .

Lots of uses and places to send these little pads, and unlike the Easel which originally had only 3 preset voltage source pads which ha only one output
These have independent outputs for both pulse and cv. Oops, didn't even address the pulse outputs. Hope this is of use. w00t
pre55ure
Thanks Todd, lots of useful ideas there.
I have been playing around with using the pulse outputs (attenuated) to get different voltages and there is some really cool stuff that can be done.
I've been using those pads to transpose the mod osc of a 259 (very cool) and to adjust the attack time and decay times of individual notes.

Now I just need a 256, 257, 275, 277, and 288 nanners
vgermuse
pre55ure wrote:
Thanks Todd, lots of useful ideas there.
I have been playing around with using the pulse outputs (attenuated) to get different voltages and there is some really cool stuff that can be done.
I've been using those pads to transpose the mod osc of a 259 (very cool) and to adjust the attack time and decay times of individual notes.

Now I just need a 256, 257, 275, 277, and 288 nanners


Cool! Re: pulses, they can also start/stop 245, 246 or MARFs.
Or you can setup a cascading 281 and, instead of the first section in
Cycle mode use a pulse to begin the cascade, sort of a sonic Rube Goldberg machine.
https://vimeo.com/137744679

I'm sure you'll come up with even more possibilities.
Rock on!
malnatim
i've not yet built my 245cj but this is how i imagine using the 216r lefthand side… pulses to trigger chords from the 245cj. so, the 245cj is not being used as a sequencer, but as a chord memory bank. the cv and associated pots to control the filter cut-off of the chords. so, a bit like auto-chord organ with microtonal tunings (if you like). just 3 chords with your left hand and 8 note lead voice with right… nice. but with addition of switches you could have touch plate #1 always trigger same chord, but other 2 touch plates could be selecting between the 4 remaining stages of 245, each with a different chord. filter cut-off is most obvious use of cv outs. if you used them to control FM of the 4 chord voice oscillators the chords can be initially discordant, becoming harmonious (controlled by decay time pots), baseline FM amount set by unlabelled pots.

BUT i've not yet built 245cj, so this is all hypothetical. in my mind it's what i've imagined the lefthand plates might have been designed for.
vgermuse
malnatim wrote:
i've not yet built my 245cj but this is how i imagine using the 216r lefthand side… pulses to trigger chords from the 245cj. so, the 245cj is not being used as a sequencer, but as a chord memory bank. the cv and associated pots to control the filter cut-off of the chords. so, a bit like auto-chord organ with microtonal tunings (if you like). just 3 chords with your left hand and 8 note lead voice with right… nice. but with addition of switches you could have touch plate #1 always trigger same chord, but other 2 touch plates could be selecting between the 4 remaining stages of 245, each with a different chord. filter cut-off is most obvious use of cv outs. if you used them to control FM of the 4 chord voice oscillators the chords can be initially discordant, becoming harmonious (controlled by decay time pots), baseline FM amount set by unlabelled pots.

BUT i've not yet built 245cj, so this is all hypothetical. in my mind it's what i've imagined the lefthand plates might have been designed for.


thumbs up
phonkmeister
Do you think the lefthand pads of the 216 could be used like the preset voltage sources of the 218, i.e. to transpose the current pitch by an interval of your choice?

(I will be getting a 216 clone in a couple of weeks, together with a 208r)
vgermuse
phonkmeister wrote:
Do you think the lefthand pads of the 216 could be used like the preset voltage sources of the 218, i.e. to transpose the current pitch by an interval of your choice?

(I will be getting a 216 clone in a couple of weeks, together with a 208r)


Not really. The 218 PVS pads combine into a single output. The left hand of the 216 has individual CD/Pulse outputs and is more envelop savvy, good for creating preset envelops to go to modulation. The right hand side can act more like the PVS of the 218 plus it gives to two independent preset voltages.
Here's a little video of using the left hand for modulation. Oh, yeah, and the left hand doesn't "hold" the voltage, it slides back down to the offset. Hope this helps.
https://www.hightail.com/download/cUJWTXRRNDQwVW5yZHNUQw

w00t
phonkmeister
Whoa, thanks! As usual, great video!
Cobramatic
pre55ure wrote:

One last question, has anyone else out there with one of these tried lacquering the keys? I noticed that vgermuse's 216 seemed to have much better pressure sensitivity than mine.


Im interested in this point too. I love the 216 but the pressure sensitivity is rubbish compared to the 218.
Any other 216 users agree?

So... Will Lacquer fix this?- if so which Lacquer?
vgermuse
phonkmeister wrote:
Whoa, thanks! As usual, great video!


Most welcome. Also, check these for more performance uses of the 216r

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=164487

pre55ure wrote:

One last question, has anyone else out there with one of these tried lacquering the keys? I noticed that vgermuse's 216 seemed to have much better pressure sensitivity than mine.

I don't know how to gauge your pressure. Mine works best if starting with my fingertip and getting a real feel for that first millimeter of skin, if that makes sense.

The lacquer on my 216r is very tight and bonded. This was an early 216r made by Roman himself.

w00t
Cobramatic
vgermuse wrote:

I don't know how to gauge your pressure. Mine works best if starting with my fingertip and getting a real feel for that first millimeter of skin, if that makes sense.

The lacquer on my 216r is very tight and bonded. This was an early 216r made by Roman himself.


With the pressure on the 216 it does seem to be a completely different response to the 218.
On my 216 it is pretty well either 'on' or 'off' - ie zero volts or about 10 volts.
To get anything in-between it is almost impossible except for the absolutely tiniest, lightest touch - which of course is completely impractical because it is very hard to touch it that lightly without getting false triggers.

On the 218 on the other hand - a gradual increase in skin to the key gives a more or less corresponding gradual increase in voltage at the pressure out nana - predictable and as you would like it to be.

So did you notice that difference Todd? - anyone else?

As I'm not aware of any trimmer on the PCB to adjust it then I'm thinking lacquer could be the key to reducing the 216 pressure sensitivity so it works like it should. Problem is I have no idea what lacquer to use.
Would really appreciate some advice on this.
Thanks.
vgermuse
Cobramatic wrote:
vgermuse wrote:

I don't know how to gauge your pressure. Mine works best if starting with my fingertip and getting a real feel for that first millimeter of skin, if that makes sense.

The lacquer on my 216r is very tight and bonded. This was an early 216r made by Roman himself.


With the pressure on the 216 it does seem to be a completely different response to the 218.
On my 216 it is pretty well either 'on' or 'off' - ie zero volts or about 10 volts.
To get anything in-between it is almost impossible except for the absolutely tiniest, lightest touch - which of course is completely impractical because it is very hard to touch it that lightly without getting false triggers.

On the 218 on the other hand - a gradual increase in skin to the key gives a more or less corresponding gradual increase in voltage at the pressure out nana - predictable and as you would like it to be.

So did you notice that difference Todd? - anyone else?



Hi Paul,
Yes, the pressure response on my 218 is ideal and on my 216 less so but truly workable. I don't have the technical knowledge to know if a specific type of lacquer would help or not. Have you explored sending the pressure through a voltage processor? 257, 256 or 254v? Hmmmm...maybe a question for Roman. Best, Todd

p.s. here is a video of my pressure:
https://www.hightail.com/download/cUJXQmtjNnlCSWUwYjhUQw
Cobramatic
vgermuse wrote:


Hi Paul,
Yes, the pressure response on my 218 is ideal and on my 216 less so but truly workable. I don't have the technical knowledge to know if a specific type of lacquer would help or not. Have you explored sending the pressure through a voltage processor? 257, 256 or 254v? Hmmmm...maybe a question for Roman. Best, Todd

p.s. here is a video of my pressure:
https://www.hightail.com/download/cUJXQmtjNnlCSWUwYjhUQw


Thanks for that Video Todd - that really is MUCH better than the pressure response of my 216. I'd be happy if mine was like that. I wonder if it is the lacquer coating that helps?

Not sure how other folks 216's are?

I suspect I'll have little luck getting a response from Roman, I might post a question in the DIY forum if no one can answer it here.
diophantine
Was going through my boxes of DIY backlog and found my 216r panels & PCBs. The PCBs are still in the original saran-wrap.

Having recently read something about lacquering/coating other Buchla clone touch-plates, I'm checking in here to see if anyone has done anything like that with their 216r touchplates. And, if so, what they'd recommend. Thanks!

(I decided to bump this topic as there's already some discussion of the matter.)
Peake
The 218r requires clear-coating. I =believe= the 216 key section requires clear-coating but I looked around and didn't see anyone discussing it and it's not on the ems BOM page or product description so don't build it up or clear coat it until someone can confirm.
Cobramatic
I do remember a different post where the various Lacquer options were discussed and something was recommended.
Might have been related to DIY 218's but I can't find it now - try some detailed searches (also in the DIY forum).
diophantine
Thanks, guys. I wrote 218 at one point in my post, but meant 216 (and have corrected it).

I thought the old forum for Roman's stuff was long dead, but managed to reset my account.

Per a thread on there:
Quote:
as mentioned by Roman, "i also recommend to coat the keyboard with the transparent urethane lacquer (spray)". I did this and it's a great improvement.


So I'll do that when I'm ready to build mine...
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