Dervish: 12HP FV-1 euro FX

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j_p_higgins
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Post by j_p_higgins » Tue May 03, 2016 10:13 am

gbiz wrote:
I was going to suggest a UK group buy. I'd happily organise it but i'm a bit busy sorting out PCBs & panels for this thing :hihi: If someone else wants to do it i'll take 2 or 3. I'd have thought we could hit the 10+ price break.

I just checked a previous invoice & their p+p was £3.50 +vat, so a GB would save quite a bit for people just wanting one assuming whoever organises this ships them on using 1st class letter post.
I'd be more than happy to organise a UK group buy but as I don't have many posts on here I won't be offended if people would rather someone else did it.

Saying that, shoving my username into google will probably come up with every social media account I have so its not like I can easily disappear.

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hi0b
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Post by hi0b » Tue May 03, 2016 12:07 pm

i am in for 1 set please

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spotta
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Post by spotta » Tue May 03, 2016 3:47 pm

set for me cheers.

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koerby
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Post by koerby » Tue May 03, 2016 4:01 pm

+1 for me please

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gbiz
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Post by gbiz » Tue May 03, 2016 4:18 pm

j_p_higgins wrote:
gbiz wrote:
I was going to suggest a UK group buy. I'd happily organise it but i'm a bit busy sorting out PCBs & panels for this thing :hihi: If someone else wants to do it i'll take 2 or 3. I'd have thought we could hit the 10+ price break.

I just checked a previous invoice & their p+p was £3.50 +vat, so a GB would save quite a bit for people just wanting one assuming whoever organises this ships them on using 1st class letter post.
I'd be more than happy to organise a UK group buy but as I don't have many posts on here I won't be offended if people would rather someone else did it.

Saying that, shoving my username into google will probably come up with every social media account I have so its not like I can easily disappear.
Thinking about it, it probably makes sense if i do it. I can ship the ICs out with the PCBs. It'll save people a bit on the p+p. And I'll have to do the trip to the post office anyway.

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allears62
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Post by allears62 » Tue May 03, 2016 5:08 pm

+1 to be added for a pcb and I'm also interested in UK group buy

I can vouch for j_p_higgins as well we're good mates and he hasn't screwed me over.... not yet anyways :drinking:

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Post by sixty_n » Tue May 03, 2016 5:17 pm

I said I'd like a set in the other thread but would like this to go in the UK group buy

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gbiz
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Post by gbiz » Thu May 05, 2016 5:17 am

I thought i'd take a look at getting the host side of my I2C eeprom programmer code compiled for Windows. As i said in the first post, it works fine for Linux & OSX, & wasn't sure about Windows. Not having ever worked on Windows, i'd assumed it would compile fine, after all it's all Posix calls. Oh how wrong i was. It relies on termios which Windows doesn't have & theres no easy way to get. :bang:

Having spent an hour or so investigating this, it looks like the options for anyone who wants to use my eeprom programmer on windows are:
(a) use an alternative method to upload banks to the eeprom. There's plenty of I2C eeprom programmers out there that can do this. You'd need matching hardware. Pick one & try it. Just ensure whatever hardware you use runs the I2C bus at 3.3V.
(b) the host side of my I2C eeprom programmer is ported to use the Windows serial API. I don't have a Windows box here to do this, or test it on. I'm not sure how much work it'd be, having never worked with the Windows serial API. TBH this is at the bottom of the priority pile for me, i want/need to get other stuff done like the docs ;) (If anyone can help do this, please PM me).
(c) install Cygwin on your Windows system, which does provide termios. It should compile fine under Cygwin.
(d) use a Linux VM hosted on your windows box. A vagrant image such as the Mutable one would work. You just need to set up a vagrant rule to pass through the Teensy USB device to the VM, & then a udev rule to create the tty node in the image.

Not exactly show stoppers, but none are pretty.

Sigh.

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Altitude909
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Post by Altitude909 » Thu May 05, 2016 6:13 am

well, if it was easy, it wouldnt be too much fun now would it.

Just so I have this straight:

ATtiny : Control code <- ISP programmer
EEPROM : Sketch data\banks <- I2C programmer
FV1 : DSP binary <- ?

I am windows but am somewhat ok on cygwin or a linux VM so we should be able to sort this out. Maybe an arduino sketch for a teensy? That works fine on windows

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gbiz
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Post by gbiz » Thu May 05, 2016 1:57 pm

Altitude909 wrote:well, if it was easy, it wouldnt be too much fun now would it.
Indeed :)
Altitude909 wrote: Just so I have this straight:

ATtiny : Control code <- ISP programmer
EEPROM : Sketch data\banks <- I2C programmer
FV1 : DSP binary <- ?
Thats pretty much it.

The binaries for the FV-1's 8 DSP programs are in the first 4KB of the EEPROM. It wasn't designed to address more than 4K, so i use the next 60KB of the EEPROM to store the additional binaries & descriptive text. When you select a different program bank on the display, the ATTiny just copies that bank's 5KB (4K binary + 1K text) from wherever it resides in the EEPROM into the first 5KB. Banks are stored sequentially in the EEPROM, 4KB binary + 1KB text.
Altitude909 wrote: I am windows but am somewhat ok on cygwin or a linux VM so we should be able to sort this out. Maybe an arduino sketch for a teensy? That works fine on windows
Theres already an arduino sketch running on the teensy, thats the target half of the I2C upload tool. Thats not the problem. It's the host/desktop portion of the code that's the issue, it uses the standard Unix terminal I/O library which isn't available on Windows. As i say the whole I2C upload method could be replaced with some other combination of I2C programmer hardware & host code that runs natively on Windows. Ideally it needs to support loading a file into a specified offset in the EEPROM, as my code does. That way you can upload just one bank of 8 programs binary & text, (5KB in size) into a specific location in the EEPROM & not have to upload the whole 64KB EEPROM each time (and then have to find some way to manage creating those 64KB images).

The build doc has diags & pictures of how all this fits together, how the EEPROM is laid out etc.

Here's the block diagram from it.

Image

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Altitude909
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Post by Altitude909 » Thu May 05, 2016 2:21 pm


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gbiz
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Post by gbiz » Thu May 05, 2016 2:57 pm

The hardware looks OK. Supports 3.3V @ 400KHz. You don't need the Vcc wire, the EEPROM is powered by the module.

I don't see any program in the zipfile that would do a file upload for you though. Looks like they provide code snippets there that you could use to write something.

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Altitude909
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Post by Altitude909 » Thu May 05, 2016 3:19 pm

I2CTool_Cn.exe?

It's in chinese

Rowan
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Post by Rowan » Thu May 05, 2016 3:30 pm

I'd like a PCB set and panel if it becomes available. I'd also be up for being in A UK group by for the FV-1.

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gbiz
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Post by gbiz » Thu May 05, 2016 3:54 pm

Altitude909 wrote:I2CTool_Cn.exe?

It's in chinese
I didn't see any source for that, so i'm not sure.

There's mention of "i2crw" in one of the batch files. That looks like it writes one byte at a time. That would take forever. The 24lc512 works with 128 byte pages. You have to wait for 5ms after each page write for the device to flush the page, else you get data corruption. Ideally you want to fill a full page with data before flushing it to get the maximum throughput. Writing one byte to the page then flushing it still needs a 5ms delay & is horribly wasteful.

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Altitude909
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Post by Altitude909 » Fri May 06, 2016 10:34 am

This looks a bit more capable:

http://www.embeddedcomputers.net/products/FlashcatUSB/

does 24lc = 24c for compatibility?

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gbiz
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Post by gbiz » Fri May 06, 2016 4:02 pm

That looks better. You can read/write a file on the disk. You can specify offset in the EEPROM & number of bytes. The only thing it doesn't do that my Teensy based tool does is fill the EEPROM with a specific byte value, though it does have an erase option which would probably suffice if erase means writing zeros. Assuming you can pass CLI arguments to windows batch files like you can with the Unix shell (i honestly have no idea :hihi:), you could write a batch file script that uploads binary & text files to a specified bank location. That's getting close to the scripts i have for OSX/Linux.

You won't need the pullups shown on p14. The EEPROM will be powered by the module, not the programmer & the FV-1 has inbuilt pullups. And you don't need Vcc, you only need 3 wires, 0V, SDA & SCL.

I don't see why it wouldn't work. The doc does state it supports all I2C EEPROM devices. But it probably wouldn't hurt to email them & ask if it supports programming a 24LC512 at 3.3V.

According to the docs, with those Microchip EEPROMs, the middle letter denotes the minimum supply voltage. 24C is 4.5-6.5V, LC is 2.4V AA is 1.8V. See http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1669373.pdf

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Altitude909
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Post by Altitude909 » Mon May 09, 2016 7:15 am

EC confirmed that's it's compatible with all 24 series EEPROMs so I ordered one. Looks like a handy device
Last edited by Altitude909 on Tue May 10, 2016 5:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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mr.sibs
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Post by mr.sibs » Tue May 10, 2016 4:14 am

PCB and panel please if I am not too late!

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gbiz
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Post by gbiz » Tue May 10, 2016 4:28 pm

mr.sibs, no, not too late.

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n167tx
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Post by n167tx » Thu May 12, 2016 4:57 pm

i am IN for a pcb/panel aswell.
hope its not too late

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gbiz
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Post by gbiz » Thu May 12, 2016 5:31 pm

No, you're good n167tx. There will be a UK group buy for the FV-1 if you're interested in that ?.

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n167tx
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Post by n167tx » Thu May 12, 2016 5:37 pm

yes, completely.
thanks

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gbiz
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Post by gbiz » Thu May 12, 2016 6:02 pm

An update on where i am with this.

I reckon theres another couple of weeks before i have to finalise rough numbers.

My final test PCBs arrived from OSHPark & they work fine. No rework required, so I finally managed to get around to ordering some test PCBs today of what i hope will be the production gerbers from a fab in China. I guess they'll be here in 10 days or so. Once i know those are good i'll chase up who wants how many, panels, shipping to where etc. etc.

Along with DSP & display PCBs, i've also ordered some black PCB panels. I also got some PCBs for use with a teensy3 for the EEPROM programmer. I added a ICSP header to this so that could also be used to flash the ATTiny for people that don't have an AVR programmer. I know i said the EEPROM programmer could be done on stripboard, (it still can), but this thing is 50mm x 30mm so it'll probably be cheaper than the time it takes to make a stripboard one. Obviously the panel & programmer are optional, if you only want the DSP & display PCBs thats fine.

It's too early to say how much the PCB sets will be, no doubt those wonderful people at UK customs will want their share, bless 'em.

The BOMs are all done. I'll make those available when i start taking orders for the PCBs. I've also put together Mouser carts for the parts that can be sourced from there for the DSP & display boards.

I got a panel laid out in FPD. With basic text it works out to about €33 from Schaeffer, add shipping to the UK, & a one off was over €40. I baulked at ordering one. Black PCB panels for me. But the FPD file will be there for anyone who wants it.

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mckenic
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Post by mckenic » Thu May 12, 2016 6:06 pm

:tu:

Thanks gbiz mate!

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