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Moon's VC Envelope Gen
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Author Moon's VC Envelope Gen
russma
I've never used a VC envelope generator, but I have it in my head that it would be fun. There seems to be only two choices currently, Moon's and Oakleys, true?

In looking at the Moon, I notice that the ADSR CV inputs are "chained" such that when nothing is patched in the Decay, Sustain, and Release inputs, they respond to whatever is patched in the Attack input. This seems kind of limiting to me. What if I wanted to set the knobs for those segments? Am I misunderstanding this? (highly likely.) I do, however, appreciate the inclusion of a manual trigger button and inverted output.

Is anyone here using one of these, and do you like it?



Oakley's includes a VCA and reversible attenuators:

SynthBaron
That's one of the reasons I went with the Oakley one. Reversible attenuators and a VCA are a nice addition too. And it only cost me about $60 more than the Moon one sells for to have krisp1 to make the Oakley one in MU format.
bwhittington
idiotboy wrote:
I notice that the ADSR CV inputs are "chained" such that when nothing is patched in the Decay, Sustain, and Release inputs, they respond to whatever is patched in the Attack input. This seems kind of limiting to me.


You could break the normaling by inserting a null patch cord when you don't want CV control of the other segments. If you absolutely hated what sounds like a nice feature to me, you could also defeat the switching jacks from behind the panel.

Cheers,
Brian
SynthBaron
bwhittington wrote:
f you absolutely hated what sounds like a nice feature to me, you could also defeat the switching jacks from behind the panel.


That would be easier if they weren't soldered to the PCB.

Personally, I find that VC'ing the attack portion of the envelope is the only thing I really use. Keeping even plugs with no cords in there all the time would piss me off.
russma
I wonder what the design philosophy was...why would you want the input chaining?
thermionicjunky
This is another reason why I love the Modcan VCDADSR. Their are independent CV inputs and a global CV input. It lacks the attenuators of the Oakley, but I like having bipolar attenuators lying around for general use. The response, delay and gate width features really do it for me.
Peake
idiotboy wrote:
I wonder what the design philosophy was...why would you want the input chaining?


Same reason that there are "overall" EG modulations via velocity, etc. in a ROMpler/digital synth. String instruments for example ring longer in the lower octaves than the high, and can also have slower attack times.

The VCA for output level on the Moon is extremely cool. Extremely. Dynamic amounts to filtration and amplitude....killer stuff.
Nelson Baboon
I have a moon coming tomorrow....

I actually thought that the chaining was a nice feature, given that you can just insert a short cable in the input to defeat it. And the chaining (as I recall is pretty flexible - it works from the point of the last input down - so you could start with the decay input, for instance - and it's my recollection that this kind of chaining is somewhat common (?) - I think that the analogue systems vc input works on the decay/sustain/release if I remember correctly.

In any case - I suppose if you are never going to use the chaining, this would be a bit of a pain....
Nelson Baboon
SynthBaron wrote:
bwhittington wrote:
f you absolutely hated what sounds like a nice feature to me, you could also defeat the switching jacks from behind the panel.


That would be easier if they weren't soldered to the PCB.

Personally, I find that VC'ing the attack portion of the envelope is the only thing I really use. Keeping even plugs with no cords in there all the time would piss me off.


Well, obviously if vc'ing the attack was the ONLY thing you'd ever use, and none of the other features were appealing to you, then you shouldn't buy one if this pisses you off.....I'd think that all you'd have to do in this case is insert ONE plug in the decay vc input - I'm guessing that this would break the chain. But hell - I'm generally not going to complain about a concession to flexibility if the workarounds aren't too onerous...
mosaiclive
I'm actually very curious about the the Moon module also. I had a Cwejman S1 for a while and really liked using CV on the release while having the overall synth controlled by a step sequencer. The random changes in release on a rhythmic sequence can be really cool. Also, in the same setup, controlling the Attack can be great. I've been missing those features once I sold the S1 to go modular.
pugix
idiotboy wrote:
I wonder what the design philosophy was...why would you want the input chaining?


It makes sense to want to control all the time parameters with one CV, and that's what the chaining is for - to eliminate the need for a multiple. A CV into Attack normalizes to the Decay, which normalizes to the Release. (Sustain is not a time parameter.) If you do not want to impact the D/R segments, then you just set the CV attenuators to zero for those. Admittedly on the Oakley it is hard to set a precise zero, but in practice you get close to zero.

http://pugix.com/synth/oakley-sound-systems-full-vc-adsrvca/

Nobody mentioned the Blacet EG-2070. It also has full CV of each parameter. I added an all times CV input instead of CV chaining, because it has no CV attenuators.

http://pugix.com/synth/blacet-research-eg2070-voltage-controlled-event -generator/

I also modified the Blacet to put out +5V max, and to double the sensitivity of all the CV inputs, which originally wanted 10V. BTW, I use the Blacet EG more often as a 0-5V VC LFO than as an EG. The inverted output goes +5 to zero! Great for panning with two VCAs.
russma
pugix wrote:
It makes sense to want to control all the time parameters with one CV, and that's what the chaining is for - to eliminate the need for a multiple. A CV into Attack normalizes to the Decay, which normalizes to the Release. (Sustain is not a time parameter.) If you do not want to impact the D/R segments, then you just set the CV attenuators to zero for those...


I guess this is the kind of thing that won't make sense to me until I try it. VC EG is now officially on my short list.

Guinness ftw!
Tronman
I received one a few weeks ago, but I'm still trying to get my head around it. I think it's going to be a while yet, but it's a fun adventure.

Regarding using a short cable to defeat the chaining, I keep a half dozen of these around for such purposes, as well as splitting signals without having to tie up a valuable multiple:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103712#
RussianDance
I have a Moon VCEG and there's no need to short the input to prevent chaining, set the voltage control to 0 and use the offset knob on the right. Works just as expected. I love this module for it's ability to provide a quick tremolo using the sustain input. Also, compared to all my other modules the build quality of Moon Modular is the best. However the jacks are mounted straight on the PCB.

hth
cornutt
idiotboy wrote:
I wonder what the design philosophy was...why would you want the input chaining?


I can see what it's for... consider the typical polysynth EG that has a modulation parameter that speeds up or slows down the EG's whole time base. You use it, for example, to emulate piano behavior where high notes have faster attack and decay than lower notes. If you plug something into the ATTACK CV jack and let it chain through the others, that's what it's doing.
russma
Yeah, that makes sense.

Pugix and RussianDance pointed out what I hadn't initially grokked, that you can set the VC knobs to zero and and then tweak the offset knobs for time values.

This is a nice EG module. I am going to buy one. You should too.

This is fun! This is fun! This is fun! This is fun! This is fun! This is fun!
hihi Guinness ftw!
Nelson Baboon
Mine just arrived, and is sitting in the office here. Will try out tonight...
RussianDance
> Pugix and RussianDance pointed out what I hadn't initially grokked, that you can set the VC knobs to zero and and then tweak the offset knobs for time values.

Didn't notice the duplicate, but yeah the module is quite versatile and well thought out, it does reflect a little bit on front panel complexity. I'm not the type to rave about all my modules but this one is used in most of my patches and I recommend it if you're searching for interesting modulation sources.
emdot_ambient
I'll soon be building 4 VCEGs based on the CEM3310...I can see I've got more design work to do. The PCBs I have for them only have VC over Attack, Decay and Release, none for Sustain...
essex sound lab
idiotboy wrote:


This is a nice EG module. I am going to buy one. You should too.



I already have two, and love 'em.

I'm considering buying a few more, depending on what Mr. MacBeth has up his sleeve.
rezzn8r
I did the classic JAG->EG1 patch the other night, mapping out the range of EG shapes across the joystick axis. SlayerBadger! VC EGs are great!
emdot_ambient
Hmm...total circuit geek question here:

The CV inputs on the PCBs I have for the CEM VCEG have summing amps: 2 CV inputs per envelope stage (A, D, R), one going to a pot and one going to a jack. The sum of these inputs is used to set the time of the associated envelope step. BUT...the op amp it's designed for is the old RC4136, which I can still get, but I see now that this old op amp has a pretty large slew rate...is that important in an EG where the op amp is only summing CV?
SynthBaron
idiotboy wrote:
Yeah, that makes sense.
Pugix and RussianDance pointed out what I hadn't initially grokked, that you can set the VC knobs to zero and and then tweak the offset knobs for time values.


Yeah, I feel stupid now. LOL.
russma
...me too. This is why I named myself idiotboy.

...I suppose the forethought did require some degree of intelligence...


....nah I'm an idiot.

Rockin' Banana!
russma
rezzn8r wrote:
I did the classic JAG->EG1 patch the other night, mapping out the range of EG shapes across the joystick axis. SlayerBadger! VC EGs are great!


...can any patch with a JAG in it really be considered "classic"?

hmmm.....

Dead Banana

hihi
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