Jurgen Haible Frequency Shifter (JH FS-1a) Build Thread

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tommy.york
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Post by tommy.york » Thu May 26, 2016 3:01 pm

the bad producer wrote:Has anyone ever tried using something like this?

http://www.linear.com/product/LTC3265
In a perfect world, we'd use something like this LTC3265 to create the inverse of this MOTM->12v converting chiclet.

Tangentially related: the oshpark user (wiggler too, I think) also created PCB chiclets for 16mm tayda pots. Looks useful for the wiring ahead.

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pix
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Post by pix » Thu May 26, 2016 3:20 pm

I think I'll just install a 15V PSU to be able to build the other Haible designs.

I found the CGS and stroh PSUs at synthcube, is there a consensus on these or other options?

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Post by tommy.york » Thu May 26, 2016 3:26 pm

Cheradenine wrote:
the bad producer wrote:Has anyone ever tried using something like this?

http://www.linear.com/product/LTC3265
At 50mA per outs this particular model can't supply enough juice for the FS; Dave Brown measured it at 111 mA on the +15V and 106 mA for the -15V.
I feel like the right solution here is something like a MC34063, and there's even an example step-up converter in the T.I.
MC34063AP data sheet
, but I'd have to level up my electrical engineering skills (which are more or less nonexistent at the moment) really, really fast if I wanted to implement this.

Edit: broke the whole 12v->15v thing out into a separate thread, for better visibility.

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Post by mnml » Thu May 26, 2016 9:21 pm

pix wrote:I think I'll just install a 15V PSU to be able to build the other Haible designs.

I found the CGS and stroh PSUs at synthcube, is there a consensus on these or other options?
There's already a 15V power supply on the FS1 PCB. For a one-off DIY thing, that might be the path of least resistance.

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pix
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Post by pix » Thu May 26, 2016 10:03 pm

wasn't aware of that. So all it needs is a 18V transformer? say this one?

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessor ... ductDetail

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Post by tommy.york » Fri May 27, 2016 10:52 am

I'm using polystyrene (where available from Mouser) + C0G ceramics for the dome filter. Not 1% - will calculate resistor values for the dome filter.

Tayda polyester + electrolytic + tantalum everywhere else. Trying to do this project on a budget. :waah:

Questions for those more experienced than me:

BoM calls for Zener diode, 5.1v / 500mw. Can I substitute a 5.1v / 1w Zener diode?
BoM calls for 1K tempco resistor. Did anyone use any different values? Also, for either 1k or different value, what PPM?

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Post by sduck » Fri May 27, 2016 11:29 am

It's been a long time since i built mine, but I think I can answer the more general questions.

Yes, you can sub a 1w zener for a 1/2w one.

Use a regular 1K resistor temporarily if you can't get a suitable tempco. They're pretty easy to get from synthcube though. Sub in the tempco once you get it. Don't use a different value resistor.
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Post by tommy.york » Sat May 28, 2016 6:14 pm

to pix and whoever else finds this thread in the future:

Ponoko was a success - they're located in the city adjacent to mine, so the panel shipped quickly - and I was able to put down some components on the panel. One quick note: the footprint for the two switches on the sides is the Mountain footprint, the switches on the bottom are the larger footprint. See in following pictures:

Image

Image[/b]

I'll try to fix that in a new version. Also, one of the fresnel lenses was slightly smaller than the other, an slid more easily through the mounting holes. Not sure whether to blame the mounting holes or the fresnel lens. I'll look into it!

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Post by mnml » Sat May 28, 2016 10:57 pm

pix wrote:wasn't aware of that. So all it needs is a 18V transformer? say this one?

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessor ... ductDetail
pix: looks like the gadget you highlighted is a standard "wall-wart" type 18V DC adapter. What the FS needs is 2 18V AC inputs, not DC. If I'm reading your question correctly, what the JH FS 1 needs is a 36V, center-tapped transformer, that provides 2 separate 18V ac outputs from a mains (120V, 220V, or whatever your country standard is) voltage. From this, the FS 1 power supply circuit rectifies, filters, and regulates the AC to +/- 15VDC.

Since one side of the transformer is at mains voltage, there is a serious shock hazard. Unless you have experience with this kind of wiring, ask a qualified tech to help you!

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Post by Luka » Sun May 29, 2016 2:59 am

i used a standard 18vac wall wort with all my jh effect boxes. hook it up to the onboard psu so it runs half rectified.

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Post by pix » Sun May 29, 2016 1:42 pm

thanks mnml, forgot to check it needs AC. Luka, that's great to hear, I think I'm going to try going that route. Can you share the brand/model of the PSU you're using.

Tommy, I'm going to cut a panel in black acrylic this week, I can cut an extra one for you with larger holes for the switches if you want.

I just got the PCBs yesterday. I'm going to include 4 holes to install spacers. How are you planning to mount the panel and the PCB?

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Post by Luka » Mon May 30, 2016 5:27 am

here is an example of one from a store
http://www.altronics.com.au/p/m9325a-po ... powerpack/

i usually find mine 2nd hand in op shops (2nd hand junk stores) for a few bucks

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Post by pix » Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:39 pm

Just finished painting the engraved panelsand they look great. I added 4 holes to mount the PCBs with spacers and made holes for the switches all the same size. I also played with different engraving depths and plexiglass surfaces to see what would look better, I'm going to keep the matte one with deeper engraving but the other 2 are up for grabs if anyone wants them. They're not perfect but they're pretty decent and definitely usable.

edit: sorry for the crappy pic, the one on top is glossy the two in the bottom and matte.

Tommy, did you decide what you're going to do regarding power?

Image

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Post by tommy.york » Mon Jun 06, 2016 12:17 pm

pix wrote:Just finished painting the engraved panelsand they look great. I added 4 holes to mount the PCBs with spacers and made holes for the switches all the same size. I also played with different engraving depths and plexiglass surfaces to see what would look better, I'm going to keep the matte one with deeper engraving but the other 2 are up for grabs if anyone wants them. They're not perfect but they're pretty decent and definitely usable.
pix these look great. Have you confirmed that the PCB's fit on spacers behind the panel? If so, do you want to share your layout? I haven't measured the PCB's from modular addict yet, keeping everything in a pile until my UTsource order comes in today.

Also, I hashed out some power ideas with sduck, gasboss775, and mnml in this thread. I got both Mouser part no. 709-DCW08A-15 (Meanwell isolated DC/DC converter 8W +/-15VOUT 9-18VIN) and Mouser part no. 595-MC34063AP (TI Voltage Regulator) with the inductor mentioned by gasboss775. I'm going to try to breadboard designs with both solutions.

... wish me luck. :deadbanana:

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Post by pix » Mon Jun 06, 2016 1:00 pm

yes, they fit, I'll post the revised .ai file later tonight. I also raised the bottom jack holes and put the labels in the bottom.

good luck with the tests. keep us posted!

also let me know if you want one of the extra panels. You got first dibs.

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Post by tommy.york » Mon Jun 06, 2016 1:10 pm

pix wrote:also let me know if you want one of the extra panels. You got first dibs.
I'd actually love the darker of the two! Will PM you my address.

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Post by pix » Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:24 am

OK just ordered one of these

http://www.groveaudio.com/synthstore/in ... duct_id=62

I want to build a few more of the Haible modules so just pulled the trigger.

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Post by sduck » Tue Jun 07, 2016 11:56 am

I hope the picture for that supply is wrong - MOTM uses 4 pin .156 connectors, not the 6 pin .100 ones in the picture.
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Post by donpachi » Tue Jun 07, 2016 12:11 pm

Maybe those are MTA.156 6-pin? I ordered some years ago when I read the MOTM spec which says that modules needing a 5 V line use this 6-pin connector. Product page says that this supply indeed has a 5 V rail.

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Post by sduck » Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:13 pm

Could be! Actually the MOTM 6 pin connector is a .100 one like is used for dotcom, so that would be right. I missed the part about the 5v being in there.
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Post by pix » Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:56 am

I didn't notice that, but yeah it's probably the 5V pin. I'll let you know how it works when I receive it.

In the meanwhile here's the .ai file with the updated panel
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

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Post by Laughing » Sat Jun 18, 2016 2:51 am

A question.

I know Haible projects have BC560C or B listed in the BOM, but has anyone had luck using 2N counterparts that I can look for? I was thinking of using 2N3904's and '06s, has anyone tried that?

Also, has anyone succeeded with a counterpart to the BF245? Can it be replaced by MPF102's or J111's?

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Post by sduck » Sat Jun 18, 2016 8:57 am

BC560's are readily available. With a project of this size (and rarity), it makes little sense to do substitutions to save a penny or two here and there. However, I bet there's a 2N part you could sub in - compare data sheets.

The Jfet though - have been discontinued. Although places like UTSource seem to have lots in stock - they hoarded stuff like this. You can get them cheap there, at least currently, and buy a bunch of extras for the next bunch of projects you might need them on. Don't know about subs though.
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Post by tommy.york » Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:34 pm

Tried to start wiring last night and I was totally humbled by (A) how complex the wiring diagram is, and how Modular Synthesis' wiring is different than Jurgen Haible's and (B) the gauge (20) + stiffness of the wire I got to do the wiring. It was like trying to wire with chicken wire.

What's a good soft / pliable wire to use? Does anyone have any tips for how to approach this?

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Post by glennfin » Thu Jun 23, 2016 2:05 pm

Just a couple of questions about this project,

Can this be adapted to run off of standard eurorack power? +12 -12v ?

Is there a PCB available? I have a few mc1496's I can put to use 8-)

Thanks

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