Jurgen Haible Frequency Shifter (JH FS-1a) Build Thread

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Jurgen Haible Frequency Shifter (JH FS-1a) Build Thread

Post by tommy.york » Tue May 24, 2016 5:04 pm

Edit: renamed this thread to make it a build thread.

To discuss: what's the easiest way to adapt the JH FS-1a to 12V? Should it even be adapted at all? Is there a eurorack panel for the JH-FS1a? Should I use this as an excuse to get into MOTM?

I've seen a gorgeous MOTM panel and a cool 4U panel (I think it's 4U?), and the Human Comparator's jaw dropping Buchla-style panel + pcb.

Though it also sounds like Sputnik Modular might be doing a frequency shifter based on the same design, but it'd neat to DIY it.
My first exposure to modular was through Arturia Modular V, which featured the Bode frequency shifter. That sound is just raw modular sex appeal to me. :deadbanana:

edit: This is what my current working version of the panel looks like in FPE. I've attached the Front Panel Express file, which includes drilled M3 holes to mount the PCB behind the panel. Haven't confirmed that it fits yet.
edit: Uploaded a new version of the FPE panel, this time with the PCB re-measured as 150.5 mm x 90.5 mm.
edit: Drill holes are in correct location. Removed old drafts.

Image
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Last edited by tommy.york on Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:26 am, edited 7 times in total.

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pix
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Post by pix » Tue May 24, 2016 6:25 pm

A random source design similar to the living VCOs would be fantastic!

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mnml
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Post by mnml » Tue May 24, 2016 10:01 pm

I don't know if anyone's done any eurorack of the FS1. I've been digging through the BOM and schematics though to see how involved the build would be... just looking through JH's old docs, the word is 'very'. Still the design is pretty interesting and tempting.


Speaking of parts, there's this MC1496 4-quadrant multiplier chip, apparently no longer available as TH unless you're buying 2,000. Not a huge deal, just use an SMD adapter. And then there's the BF245A, also hard to find. Ebay lists some Chinese vendors but probably a red flag.

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Post by tommy.york » Tue May 24, 2016 11:22 pm

mnml wrote:I've been digging through the BOM and schematics though to see how involved the build would be... just looking through JH's old docs, the word is 'very'.
:nana:
I gotta find something to do after the TTSH!
mnml wrote:Speaking of parts, there's this MC1496 4-quadrant multiplier chip, apparently no longer available as TH unless you're buying 2,000. Not a huge deal, just use an SMD adapter. And then there's the BF245A, also hard to find. Ebay lists some Chinese vendors but probably a red flag.
I had a good experience with utsource in getting the rare parts for the TTSH. I'm no elite-level DIY'er that can critically test the components to assure that they're real, but my TTSH works wonderfully.

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Post by AlanP » Wed May 25, 2016 2:06 am

What are the physical measurements for the two FS-1A boards? If they're anything like the Tau Pipe, then they are not going to be Euro-friendly, unless you spend many HP on the module panel.

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Post by diablojoy » Wed May 25, 2016 3:47 am

What are the physical measurements for the two FS-1A boards? If they're anything like the Tau Pipe, then they are not going to be Euro-friendly, unless you spend many HP on the module panel.
I just checked old crows backup of jurgens site seems the FS-1A boards are 160 x 100 mm so euro is possible but 32HP panel roughly unless you get inventive and have a deep cabinet
panel needs to be big enough for 13 pots , 7 jacks, 7 switches and 4 LED's
judging from jurgens notes unless I missed something I only had a quick glance
It probably wont happen today but if it does it definitely wont go smoothly.

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Post by Starspawn » Wed May 25, 2016 4:37 am

I think the Sputnik Modular guy licensed the FS1 for his eurorack range, dont know if its out yet but someone mentioned it. So search for that and youll see a panel option for euro.
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/sputnik-m ... cy-shifter
Last edited by Starspawn on Wed May 25, 2016 9:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Cheradenine » Wed May 25, 2016 5:26 am

I guess there's no euro panel for the FS-1A because it won't work with -12V/+12V supply...

Electro-music forum, in the frequency shifter topic :
J.Haible wrote:We *need* +/-15V, so the +/-12V systems are not supported.
Good luck to whom will try to mess with the circuit to adapt it !

From an old thread here
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch wrote:
clarke68 wrote:
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch wrote:I'm liking it. And, I'm happy to help out with the conversion duties, if you suggest some circuits.
I would love it if you could figure out how to build the Jurgen Haible Living VCOs in 12v.

Thanks in advance!
Why not? Sounds like a plan! Just don't ask me to mess with the JH frequency shifter. That idea gives me the willies!
But of course one could use the dedicaced 15V supply on the original PCB and give it his own AC power directly.

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mnml
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Post by mnml » Wed May 25, 2016 8:06 am

Low-noise DC-DC converter?

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Post by mnml » Wed May 25, 2016 8:12 am

Though I'm sure JH wouldn't have commented about the supply voltage without a good reason, nothing really jumped out at me looking at the schematics.

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Post by mnml » Wed May 25, 2016 8:26 am

I had a good experience with utsource in getting the rare parts for the TTSH. I'm no elite-level DIY'er that can critically test the components to assure that they're real, but my TTSH works wonderfully.
Great tip, thanks!

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Post by sduck » Wed May 25, 2016 10:13 am

Hey folks, if this is going to be a general build discussion thread, might want to rename the thread.
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Post by tommy.york » Wed May 25, 2016 11:09 am

sduck wrote:Hey folks, if this is going to be a general build discussion thread, might want to rename the thread.
Done! :cloud:

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Post by tommy.york » Wed May 25, 2016 6:45 pm

I've attached a front panel express file with an adaptation of the Modular Synthesis LLC (Dave?)'s 5U panel into Eurorack. This is my first time using the front panel express software, so let me know if you see any glaring issues. I wouldn't plan on pulling the trigger until I had a working FS-1a...

I changed the LED mounting holes to .25" to accommodate LED lenses like the ones R*S uses in their DUSG (e.g. Mouser 593-3000R). Jack sizes changed to 6mm, etc. Switch mounting holes changed to 4.75mm (for mini SPDT toggles from Tayda). Pot mounting holes changed to 7.5mm (for panel mount Alpha's from Tayda). Schroff mounting rails added.

Would still need to figure out:

- power supply conversion, or separate power supply
- how to mount the PCB relative to the panel (PCB is 160mm by 100mm, panel is 162.22mm by 128.4mm)
- how to replicate Modular Synthesis' wiring and adaptation
Last edited by tommy.york on Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by mnml » Wed May 25, 2016 9:07 pm

Why are there 2 knobs for "Fine" and "FM" ? I see them on the MOTM panel but not the schemos.

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Post by sduck » Wed May 25, 2016 10:23 pm

mnml wrote:Why are there 2 knobs for "Fine" and "FM" ? I see them on the MOTM panel but not the schemos.
One's linear, one's exponential. On my version of it (and possibly on Dave's version I copied from) the distinction of which is which was left off.

ImageJH FS1a installed by Stephen Drake, on Flickr

tommy.york, your panel looks great, but make sure there's enough room at the bottom and top for the hardware behind the panel to clear the mounting rails. It might be ok as is - I'm not as familiar with euro hardware spacing.

How to adapt the wiring - I don't think there's an easy way out of this. You're just going to have to roll your sleeves up and get your hands dirty. I used a combination of Jurgen's wiring diagram and Dave's - there was quite a bit of experimentation with pot values and such before I was happy. If you click on the picture of my panel it'll take you to my flickr page, with some pics of the wiring - not for the feint of heart stuff.
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Post by Luka » Thu May 26, 2016 4:54 am

here is my design

not euro but might help with some ideas
i am really happy with it - fun to play

Image

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Post by mush » Thu May 26, 2016 5:08 am

tommy.york wrote:I've attached a front panel express file with an adaptation of the Modular Synthesis LLC (Dave?)'s 5U panel into Eurorack. This is my first time using the front panel express software, so let me know if you see any glaring issues. I wouldn't plan on pulling the trigger until I had a working FS-1a...

I changed the LED mounting holes to .25" to accommodate LED lenses like the ones R*S uses in their DUSG (e.g. Mouser 593-3000R). Jack sizes changed to 6mm, etc. Switch mounting holes changed to 4.75mm (for mini SPDT toggles from Tayda). Pot mounting holes changed to 7.5mm (for panel mount Alpha's from Tayda). Schroff mounting rails added.

Would still need to figure out:

- power supply conversion, or separate power supply
- how to mount the PCB relative to the panel (PCB is 160mm by 100mm, panel is 162.22mm by 128.4mm)
- how to replicate Modular Synthesis' wiring and adaptation
The jacks will not fit, due to the mounting rails.

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Post by PWM » Thu May 26, 2016 5:56 am

tommy.york as said before, those lower jacks will probably not fit. I center them at 14mm, measured from the bottom. This way they'll fit with all 3,5 jacks I came across.
Great design though, a little bit to plain for my likings but still.


Luka that's an awesome design!

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Post by tommy.york » Thu May 26, 2016 9:49 am

Thanks mnml + sduck + luka + mush + pwm.

pwm I love those minimal designs!

Moved the jacks to 13mm from the bottom last night (before PWM's post), sent a copy to Ponoko to try it in black delrin (some sort of highly stiff thermoplastic?) by exporting to SVG and editing the paths in Illustrator... $25 shipped to me, could be worse. Doing this design at front panel express looks like $114 excl. shipping so I'd definitely like to try it in a cheaper material before going big.

(In the attached panel, the jacks are 14mm from the bottom, in the picture below, jacks are 13mm from the bottom).

Image

How did you goes mount the PCB relative to the panel? Did anyone out there manage to mount the PCB parallel to the panel?
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Post by pix » Thu May 26, 2016 10:02 am

that looks great! to mount the board parallel to the panel an easy option would be to add some extra holes to install spacer screws (the PCBs have 4 holes).

Also, would you be willing to share the .ai file of this panel version?

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Post by tommy.york » Thu May 26, 2016 12:30 pm

pix wrote:that looks great! to mount the board parallel to the panel an easy option would be to add some extra holes to install spacer screws (the PCBs have 4 holes).

Also, would you be willing to share the .ai file of this panel version?
Yes! But it's not AI, it's .svg, which apparently isn't allowed file type for the muffwiggler bbs, which is why I didn't originally upload it. Attached a zip with the fpd (jacks 14mm from the bottom) and the svg I used (jacks 13mm from the bottom)... This is the .svg file I used with ponoko, so engraving is in red, cuts are in blue, and all the lines are .01mm. Fingers crossed that the whole thing comes out correct.
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Post by pix » Thu May 26, 2016 1:08 pm

Thanks! I have access to a cutter and some acrylic, I can give it a try and see how it turns out. I just ordered the PCB from modularaddict, I'm going to wait until it's here to measure and add the spacer screw holes. I can cut a few more if anyone else is interested.

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Post by the bad producer » Thu May 26, 2016 1:25 pm

Has anyone ever tried using something like this?

http://www.linear.com/product/LTC3265

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Post by Cheradenine » Thu May 26, 2016 2:58 pm

the bad producer wrote:Has anyone ever tried using something like this?

http://www.linear.com/product/LTC3265
At 50mA per outs this particular model can't supply enough juice for the FS; Dave Brown measured it at 111 mA on the +15V and 106 mA for the -15V.

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