Rene and Power Supplies - right and wrong!

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wsy
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Rene and Power Supplies - right and wrong!

Post by wsy » Sun Jun 05, 2016 12:19 pm

I was having a lot of trouble with my Rene (to the point of ringing up MakeNoise and wondering if I should send
it back or reflashing it or modding it or anything to get it to work.)

MakeNoise tech support suggested that I replace the 90-watt Meanwell power supply that I'd bought with the Row Power 40
and use this one instead:

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/ ... ND/5247775

($28 from DigiKey, not counting shipping)

Result: PERFECTION. The Rene' now responds to touch like it does in the videos. :-)

So, warning to y'all - don't buy the Meanwell power supply if you want to have a Rene' in your rack. Buy the Volgen above.

- Bill

[[[EDIT: Yes, it's the case that the Meanwell is nominally 90 watts and the Volgen is only 65, but the reality is that the Volgen
works with the Rene and the Meanwell does not. ]]]
"Life is short. But we can always buy longer patch cords" - Savage

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wsy
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Re: Rene and Power Supplies - right and wrong!

Post by wsy » Sun Jun 05, 2016 12:24 pm

[quote="wsy"]I was having a lot of trouble with my Rene (to the point of ringing up MakeNoise and wondering if I should send
it back or reflashing it or modding it or anything to get it to work.)

MakeNoise tech support suggested that I replace the 90-watt Meanwell power supply that I'd bought with the Row Power 40
and use this one instead:

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/ ... ND/5247775

($28 from DigiKey, not counting shipping)

Result: PERFECTION. The Rene' now responds to touch like it does in the videos. :-)

So, warning to y'all - don't buy the Meanwell power supply if you want to have a Rene' in your rack. Buy the Volgen above.

- Bill

EDIT: Yes, it's the case that the Meanwell is nominally 90 watts and the Volgen is only 65, but the reality is that the Volgen
works with the Rene and the Meanwell does not.

EDIT 2: The Meanwell that does not work is the Mean Well GS90A15-P1M which is pretty commonly available and works fine with most
modules, but NOT with a RENE!
"Life is short. But we can always buy longer patch cords" - Savage

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wes2600
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Post by wes2600 » Sun Jun 05, 2016 1:35 pm

From Rene manual:

The René module is not compatible with power solutions using the MeanWell brand AC Adapters. The René module will not work on power solution using the MeanWell brand AC Adapters. Make Noise will not be able to provide support for René modules used on power solutions using the MeanWell brand AC Adapters.

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wsy
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Post by wsy » Sun Jun 05, 2016 2:18 pm

wes2600 wrote:From Rene manual:

The René module is not compatible with power solutions using the MeanWell brand AC Adapters. The René module will not work on power solution using the MeanWell brand AC Adapters. Make Noise will not be able to provide support for René modules used on power solutions using the MeanWell brand AC Adapters.
Yeah, but that's in the manual, but who reads the manual when deciding whether to
buy a module or not? What happens is you watch Youtube videos and listen to
SoundCloud demos.

Anyway... yeah. Don't buy a Meanwell power brick for any rack with a Rene.

- Bill
"Life is short. But we can always buy longer patch cords" - Savage

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Post by bc3 » Sun Jun 05, 2016 3:01 pm

Or you could have done this maybe...

viewtopic.php?p=2060472

Worked for me when I was having trouble with my Pressure Points
8-)

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Post by greenanother » Sun Jun 05, 2016 4:22 pm

bc3 wrote:Or you could have done this maybe...

viewtopic.php?p=2060472

Worked for me when I was having trouble with my Pressure Points
8-)
I just wonder if I buy a new 7u intellijel case, will I be able to mount a Rene in it without issue...aren't they still using Meanwell power bricks? :despair:
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Post by wsy » Sun Jun 05, 2016 5:08 pm

greenanother wrote:
bc3 wrote:Or you could have done this maybe...

viewtopic.php?p=2060472

Worked for me when I was having trouble with my Pressure Points
8-)
I just wonder if I buy a new 7u intellijel case, will I be able to mount a Rene in it without issue...aren't they still using Meanwell power bricks? :despair:
Actually, the seller (a relatively well-known online merchandiser of modular stuff) lists it on their web page as a
Meanwell GS90A15-P1M online, but now that I look at what it actually has on the label, it has no manufacturer
name on it at all, just "Model ST-C-090-19500474CT"

And I don't see any little feet or caps to pry off to access the screws. Peeling the label with the aid of a hair dryer reveals
nothing but more plastic, no screws

As to what's on the label... what looks like the FCC ID "170103240071" doesn't show up in the FCC database. The box it came in
is utterly blank white cardboard. The diagonal cut on the label (and label recess) corner is what you see on a lot of stuff that might
end up in a Lenovo package. And it has the "mickey mouse ears" style power input cord, not an IEC rectangle power
input... again,
common on Lenovo stuff.

Oh well.... Meta-moral of the story: Buy the Volgen KTPS65-1543DT-3P-VI-C-P1 from DigiKey and stop messing around.

- Bill
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Post by concretic » Sun Jun 05, 2016 5:25 pm

And I am licking my fingers, wondering how Rene smoothly works in one enviroment yet at my home studio its not so responsive... Sentence about Meanwell from manual have somehow escaped me and I found out right with this thread. Thx wsy, first I am going to try tomorrow
bc3 solution and report back how it works with Rene.

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Post by tylrprtr » Mon Jun 06, 2016 12:52 pm

I believe that it was user Graham Hinton that first shed the light on the actually issue at play here.

It's due to the way that the MeanWell adapaters are grounded. They ground themselves to the metal casing of the adapter, called a floating ground. This is the cheap way to ground something, but there's nothing wrong with it (that I can recall).

However, the Make Noise touch modules need a true, fixed ground source to register when the resistance of the circuit has changed (caused by the press of the finger against the touch pads). If the ground is inaccurate, the registering of touches will be inaccurate. This is where the Volgen adapter comes in to play: it has a ground prong and is grounded to the Earth main, which will be a constant ground.

that is my understanding at least, by no means am I anything close to an electrician, but I found the explanation interesting.

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Post by goiks » Tue Jun 07, 2016 12:11 am

some mean well adapters do have -V connected to AC ground. (and work just fine with rene)

to be sure, check your data sheets.
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Post by morrison23usa » Tue Jun 07, 2016 1:52 am

Had this exact issue with Rene, Pressure Points and Meanwell ungrounded adapters.

Also tingling sensation on the faceplates of modules as well as a few instances of unexpected behaviors from other modules.

Grounding myself by touching a screw on the case provided temporary relief.

As noted above, Graham Hinton and a few others shed additional light and helped sort things out.
viewtopic.php?t=139050&postdays=0&posto ... c&start=50

Switching to grounded Volgen resolved all issues permanently.

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Post by greenanother » Tue Jun 07, 2016 4:49 am

goiks wrote:some mean well adapters do have -V connected to AC ground. (and work just fine with rene)

to be sure, check your data sheets.
Thank you, goiks. So according to this chart, the adapter that comes with the new intellijel 7u cases means their power supply will NOT work with Rene:

https://www.trcelectronics.com/ecomm/pdf/gs90.pdf

Image

Right? Good to know, as I'm now having second thoughts about buying one. :sadbanana:

Edit: Or am I reading this in reverse? :despair:
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Post by wsy » Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:45 am

Myth: Some adapters (Meanwell, among others) don't work well with a Rene because they don't pass ground and the Volgen adapters do.

BUSTED! The no-name adapter that I got from $FAMOUS_ONLINE_RESELLER does in fact pass ground (0.7 ohms measured from AC
ground pin to the barrel of the DC-out plug, pretty much the same as the Kaga Volgen.

Also, grounding the system via the Tek 475 ground shield doesn't help either.

So, that's not the (only) problem. The old adapter doesn't work and the new one (Kaga Volgen KPTS65-1543DT-3P-VI does. There's
some form of interference happening that isn't just a floating ground.

- Bill
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Post by necrobious » Tue Jun 07, 2016 11:00 am

Depending on your Mean Well adapter, and your willingness to maybe destroy your modules and set fire to your home, you may try a solution that worked for me:

viewtopic.php?t=69760

DISCLAIMER: I'm not an EE, this solution worked for me, ymmv!

I have two MeanWell GS90A15-P1M adapters purchased with my Synthrotek deluxe power modules.

Initially I had an issue with my Pressure Points "jumping" to step four, when ever I touched any of the plates. All other Make Noise modules worked as expected

I removed all other modules from the case, the "jumping" problem still occurred.

I switched Deluxe Power modules using same MeanWell adapter, the problem did not go away.

I switched MeanWell adapters, and the problem still happened.

Finally I modded one of the adapters as described by @WMDDevices, and the problem went away. Pressure Points works perfectly.

Plugged the unmodified adapter back in, and the problem comes back.
Same results, regardless of which deluxe power module I use.

I've been playing on the modded power supply now for ~6 months now, and it hasn't exhibited anything but expected performance.

hope this helps.

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Post by Footkerchief » Tue Jun 07, 2016 11:04 am

wsy wrote:Myth: Some adapters (Meanwell, among others) don't work well with a Rene because they don't pass ground and the Volgen adapters do.

BUSTED! The no-name adapter that I got from $FAMOUS_ONLINE_RESELLER does in fact pass ground (0.7 ohms measured from AC
ground pin to the barrel of the DC-out plug, pretty much the same as the Kaga Volgen.
I wonder what this same test would show for an actual Mean Well adapter.

Many people have confirmed (like above) that William Mathewson's DIY fix for the Mean Well does work, so maybe your knockoff adapter has a unique problem?

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Post by GGW » Tue Jun 07, 2016 11:13 am

greenanother wrote:
goiks wrote:some mean well adapters do have -V connected to AC ground. (and work just fine with rene)

to be sure, check your data sheets.
Thank you, goiks. So according to this chart, the adapter that comes with the new intellijel 7u cases means their power supply will NOT work with Rene:

https://www.trcelectronics.com/ecomm/pdf/gs90.pdf

Image

Right? Good to know, as I'm now having second thoughts about buying one. :sadbanana:
Edit: Or am I reading this in reverse? :despair:
About halfway down the Intellijel page for the adaptor it says:
"** Input ground and secondary ground are not connected"

https://intellijel.com/product/90-watt-ac-dc-power-supply/

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Post by Footkerchief » Tue Jun 07, 2016 11:24 am

Can anyone comment on this strangely anonymous "Universal AC Adapter" being sold by 4ms and now Synthrotek?
http://www.4mspedals.com/powerbrick90.php
http://store.synthrotek.com/Universal_Power_Brick

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Post by greenanother » Tue Jun 07, 2016 11:29 am

GGW wrote:
greenanother wrote:
goiks wrote:some mean well adapters do have -V connected to AC ground. (and work just fine with rene)

to be sure, check your data sheets.
Thank you, goiks. So according to this chart, the adapter that comes with the new intellijel 7u cases means their power supply will NOT work with Rene:

https://www.trcelectronics.com/ecomm/pdf/gs90.pdf

Image

Right? Good to know, as I'm now having second thoughts about buying one. :sadbanana:
Edit: Or am I reading this in reverse? :despair:
About halfway down the Intellijel page for the adaptor it says:
"** Input ground and secondary ground are not connected"

https://intellijel.com/product/90-watt-ac-dc-power-supply/
Yeah, I saw that :confused: Wish someone from Intellijel would comment on why they seem to be ok with that...
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Post by ElCampesino » Wed Sep 07, 2016 4:21 am

Sorry to drag this thread up again, but I'm having the same issue with a custom case with intellijel 30Max power installed, and using the meanwell power brick. Didn't read all manuals and information properly, never crossed my mind it could give me any trouble. I usually find intellijel stuff to be super dependable and well thought through.

My question is whether I can use just about any other universal adapter with the right specs other than the meanwell? Or do I have to look for something specific?

Any experiences other than with the mentioned Volgen adapter?

peripatitis

Post by peripatitis » Wed Sep 07, 2016 4:50 am

I am confused now :)
So the issue with rene is the adapters or the power supplies?
Because i had to sell mine which didn't play along with tiptop's zeus with the standard adapter it comes with..

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Post by freq » Wed Sep 07, 2016 5:03 am

peripatitis wrote:I am confused now :)
So the issue with rene is the adapters or the power supplies?
Because i had to sell mine which didn't play along with tiptop's zeus with the standard adapter it comes with..
I have Rene being delivered at the moment and my only PSU is a uZeus. What is going to be needed to power the Rene?

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Post by mdoudoroff » Wed Sep 07, 2016 7:12 am

I will now muddy these waters a little further: with Pressure Points, Rene, and presumably, other touch plate modules, it’s not a binary works/doesn’t work situation. There’s a spectrum of “kind of works” in the middle.

For example, I’ve experience using both Pressure Points and Rene in infamous Pittsburgh Modular Move cases using both Meanwell and Volgen bricks, and also the entirely new power supplies built into the Structure cases. These modules were quite dysfunctional in the Move case using a Meanwell brick. Swapping out the Meanwell for a Volgen, these modules functioned, but something was never quite right about their responsiveness: they didn’t always trigger when expected and “pressure” response of the Pressure Points seemed awfully narrow, no matter how you adjusted the trim. Moving these modules into the new Structure case was a revelation—for the first time, I understood how they were supposed to work. Much happier now.

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Post by Zymos » Wed Sep 07, 2016 7:46 am

Footkerchief wrote:Can anyone comment on this strangely anonymous "Universal AC Adapter" being sold by 4ms and now Synthrotek?
http://www.4mspedals.com/powerbrick90.php
http://store.synthrotek.com/Universal_Power_Brick
It works with Rene, no problem....

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Post by ElCampesino » Wed Sep 07, 2016 9:13 am

So I tried a different adapter. At first, it seemed to improve the situation much. But after a minute or so, the issues are as bad as they were with the meanwell. :sadbanana:

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Post by flonaise » Wed Sep 07, 2016 12:09 pm

greenanother wrote:
goiks wrote:some mean well adapters do have -V connected to AC ground. (and work just fine with rene)

to be sure, check your data sheets.
Thank you, goiks. So according to this chart, the adapter that comes with the new intellijel 7u cases means their power supply will NOT work with Rene:

https://www.trcelectronics.com/ecomm/pdf/gs90.pdf

Image

Right? Good to know, as I'm now having second thoughts about buying one. :sadbanana:

Edit: Or am I reading this in reverse? :despair:
When I ordered my Intellijel 7U around the middle of last month, their customer service emailed me informing me that they started shipping NEW power supplies with the 7U that, and I quote "Evidently it provides a clear power solution.". Obviously my choice was to wait for them to ship the case until I got the new power supply. I don't have a Rene personally, but I know a fellow on IG who was having issues with his Rene in the Intellijel 7U case and once he changed the power brick he was good to go. Ultimately, is this the fix for people using the Rene with Mean Well adapters? I'm not sure being new to Eurorack and what not. All I have to go off of is comparing the 7U to my Structure 208 from PGH, and they both were quiet as a church mouse when powered on.

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