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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

PLL Musings: How to bring madness to the cleanest oscs
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules Goto page 1, 2  Next [all]
Author PLL Musings: How to bring madness to the cleanest oscs
Carrousel
I've been reading Navs' modular blog, particularly the entry on the doepfer PLL and how to re-create it yourself (had to read it bout 3 times before i understood the principle but hey) and have recently had great success using it to make a Rubicon sound much more like a Hertz Donut than itself (Navs mentions the HD uses a PLL in its bad tracking circuit). Seems to me its a great technique to get stable clean tracking oscs to 'lose the plot' at a rate and depth of your choosing (to an extent). Brings some serious grit to the table if used well.

To set up the phase locked loop you need two oscs (master and slave: i used dixie, rubicon), a min/max module (doepfer have one, disting does it), a bipolar DC mixer and a slew, preferably voltage controlled for more madness (I used maths to achieve both these requirements). A quantizer is optional for more 'musical' madness.

Feed a wave each from the master and slave into the min/max module. Subtract the min from the max using the bipolar DC mixer and feed the output to a slew. Send this signal to the 1V/oct input on the slave (optionally, insert the quantizer in the signal path here). The master receives whatever 1v/oct signal you want to use as a sequence.

With careful adjustment of the levels on the bipolar mixer and the rate of slew you can get some very bizarre effects, which are better heard than trying to explain.

Below is my example. I wanted to control the madness slightly and also have more timbral variation, so I fed the output of the slave (rubicon) into one half of a crossfader and fed the ring modulated result of the master and slave into the other half. I also intermittently 'soft' synced the rubicon to the dixie. The output of the crossfader was then fed to an ultrafold which was intermittently modulated at audio rate by the dixie. This goes to an optomix and finally the dimension chorus unit from AD.

The sequence is created using both gate outputs from Rene (which is clocked by tempi) opening the optomix.

Please post your own PLL experiments, I find PLLs to be fascinating musical devices. The theory behind how they work when you think about what the min/max unit is achieving in terms of phase detection and conversion to a CV is brilliant.


[soundcloud url="https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/268402152" params="auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments=true&show_use r=true&show_reposts=false&visual=true" width="100%" height="450" iframe="true" /]
Pighood
I just use my A-196 seriously, i just don't get it
enj_music
Just tried this with 2 spectrums, Cold Mac, and Mini Slew. Very interesting results. Changing the output level of the Mini Slew results in different harmonics being chosen to lock onto.

Thanks for sharing! Gonna have loads of fun with this patch.
suboptimal
Pighood wrote:
I just use my A-196 seriously, i just don't get it


I always intend to use my A-196, but I never get around to it.

Nice post, Raven_Martin. Always nice to see more technically-oriented patch discussion here. The audio you posted is very interesting. I wouldn't guess it was a Rubicon making that sound, that's for sure . . .

(This really does make me want to revisit my 196. hihi )
Pighood
For the longest time, I avoided my 196, since I didn't understand it. Now that I know the "boiler plate" patch for it, it's a lot of fun, since I've paired it with Bluelantern's squelchy little Diode filter.
enj_music
Sine waves + PLL = instant sax sample sounds
mharpum
I have a synchrodyne, still don't fully understand what it is doing!
strangeowl
Bookmarked for future reference.

Nice timbre on that synth!
sihiL
I'm probably getting an A-196 soon. I'm tempted to try sending it a couple of LFO's mashed together by an A-133 to see if I can get something resembling the output of a Wogglebug. I figure it could be a nice way of saving some and getting a slightly dirty, yet kind of predictable CV. Don't know yet, but it'll be fun to find out! It's peanut butter jelly time!
ben_hex
Very cool patch Raven_Martin going to give this one a try. I've been intriguied by the A-196 PLL but have never bought one to try it.
matttech
Good effort Tom - like it!

I've had an a196 in my system for ages, and it's not something I'll always go for - but when I do, it's always really interesting. Not sure I completely understand what's going on with it though

Here's some a196 PLL madness I ladled onto Braids from a while back:

[bandcamp width=100% height=120 track=1729010442 size=large bgcol=ffffff linkcol=0687f5 tracklist=false artwork=small]
matttech
...and I just found another I did, using the Cyclebox and a196

Definitely easy to get nice, sharp tones out of this thing - kind of like tapping a metal container!

[bandcamp width=100% height=120 track=3441935314 size=large bgcol=ffffff linkcol=0687f5 tracklist=false artwork=small]
timoka
a wonderful module by doepfer imo, but quite hard to fully understand.
i once tried to replicate the famous pll arabesque patch by dougcl:

[s]http://soundcloud.com/uzala/dual-pll[/s]

instant bagpipe...
Carrousel
Matt and Timoka, they are amazing examples. Thanks for sharing cool

Matt, that Braids one is an absolute stomper. The way the PLL warbles up and then rejoins the bass is sublime. Nice examples of sharp grit from the cycle box too, always been intrigued by that module.

Timoka, absolute classic bagpipes, bloody love it.

The PLL is quite hard to understand but thats why I think patching one yourself really helps. If i'm understanding it properly, the min/max is basically a phase detector between master and slave. If you think about it, when they are in phase, the result of max - min is 0, but as they slide out of phase, this value increases or decreases accordingly and becomes the CV which keeps the slave 'slaved' to the master osc frequency. This obviously happens at audio rates, but thats where the slew and optional quantizer come in....slows the whole thing down from anywhere between borderline noise, to glitches, to arabesque swirls and arpeggios. Brilliant
thelizard
Awesome patch idea! Hell of a sound, too.

Other modules that do Min/Max simultaneously: Cold Mac, Mutable Kinks (Any others that I'm missing?)

I'm going to patch this up later today and see if Cold Mac's Follow output will generate a suitable slew for this.
XponentOne
Funny just last night I dived back in to explore the arabesque pll patch (search this forum, for those that havent heard it) with my a196, a wmd/ssf spectrum and a tides also plling through a different pitch line for bass accompaniment. Like others say - 9/10 times the a196 gets left idle in the rack, id remove it but man that 1/10, sweet heyzoos.
moofi
Just posted this in the obscure Doepfer module thread just afterwards seeing this thread. I already posted it aswell in the A-196-PLL love thread I created a while ago anyway. So here it is another time :-D

https://hearthis.at/moofi/pllove/
https://hearthis.at/moofi/a-196-pllove-2/
https://hearthis.at/moofi/pllove-3/

Involved have been Doepfer A-196 PLL with FonitronicĀ“s Thomas Henry 555-VCO + Pittsburgh Modular Chain Reactor and some multing, cannot remember the patch exactly anymore.
timoka
...now ordering the doepfer min/max, don't know why i havent done this yet!
esoteric23
timoka: That's freaking brilliant. I love it.
moofi
+ thank you Raven Martin, gonna test the patch :-)
Carrousel
No worries guys. Just want to clarify that this patch idea is from Navs' modular blog (not sure who came up with the actual technique) so I don't wanna take credit for it, but still, thought it was worth sharing as it helps to understand how a PLL works and is a great way to 'A-196-ify' any osc of your choosing!
hinterlands303
Would this patch work with min/max functions on the uMod ii? I imagine it would but I'm not sure if there is something I'm missing with not having the Doepfer module.
enj_music
thelizard wrote:
Awesome patch idea! Hell of a sound, too.

Other modules that do Min/Max simultaneously: Cold Mac, Mutable Kinks (Any others that I'm missing?)

I'm going to patch this up later today and see if Cold Mac's Follow output will generate a suitable slew for this.


I haven't tried Cold Mac's follow for this, just using the min/max in the Cold Mac for my version of the patch, but I've found that having an actual VCS such as the Mini Slew, Function, Maths, Rampage, etc. is essential for getting those sweet spots.

Also inserted my test using two WMD/SSF Spectrums. I know, the sequence can get a little repetitive, just wanted to try out some series-of-fifths stuff to get a clear example. Gets nice and glitchy sometimes. The output you're hearing is an even mix of the master sine and the slave "sine".

In this clip, I'm tweaking the rise/fall of the slew, the slope of the slew, the amount of feedback control voltage to the slave, and the slave base frequency

[s]https://soundcloud.com/enj_hoffman/spectrumpll1[/s]
Carrousel
enj_music, which slew were you using for that sequence? It alternates very nicely between audio rate and much slower glitches, nice. I've been getting different results using maths or a sport modulator as the VC slew. SM seems more pleasing to my ears.

Also, you're completely right about the sine wave sax thing. After some more tweaking, I came up with this:

[soundcloud url="https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/268485246" params="auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments=true&show_use r=true&show_reposts=false&visual=true" width="100%" height="450" iframe="true" /]
enj_music
Raven_Martin wrote:
enj_music, which slew were you using for that sequence?


I was using the WMD/SSF Mini Slew - lots and lots of sweet spots, and the VARI OUT lets me easily dial in/voltage control the amount of feedback to the slave.
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