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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Live video feedback
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Video Synthesis  
Author Live video feedback
arbito
I would love to hear experiences and or tips from video wigglers when using live video feedback. I haven't played publicly yet, but I think I'll be having my first show coming up soon. At home I've been experimenting with video feedback, it's been great but I can't help feel concerned for people's brains and eyeballs when I non-intentionally get into a severe screen flashing cycle. At times it's hard to get out of the flashing cycles, my first go to is my fade to black knob on my V-4. How to you all deal with this? Have you ever had anybody complain? Ha!

Maybe this would be a good place to share embarrassing moments, so we can all learn from them?
eth
If your equipment allows it, try inverting the video feedback signal. This works well for me, so instead of the camera feed oversaturating with white, it inverts to black then white every frame, etc. Makes it much more manageable in my opinion, and allows for cool patterns. I also found that having a smaller screen helps reduce crazy flashing brightness.

Example, negative mode camcorder with tiny LCD: https://www.instagram.com/p/BB3oSVBzRVn/

I also like to use the feedback as a sort of effects chain... for example, a keyed video in Channel 1 such that only part of the video is displayed, the rest is blank, and Channel 2 is a camera pointed at the output of a mix of Channel 1 and 2. I usually leave the camera stationary as the motion of the keyed video tends to create cool tracer-like effects.

Example (Keyed Star Fox 64 in Channel 1, Camera pointed at TV w/ Mixer Output in Channel 2): https://www.instagram.com/p/BDY276yTRXT/

... PS, share pics and/or videos from your shows! Rockin' Banana!
arbito
Thanks for the info, I wouldn't have thought a smaller screen would help. Currently I use a 15 inch crt. and even with a negative feed it can get blindingly flashy with reds and blues. I'm not even that sensitive to it, but I can't imagine how some people in the audience would react.

That's star fox video is awesome! I've always wanted to do something with space harrier. As a kid that game would always trip me out.

I will definitely share videos when I get em. It's peanut butter jelly time!
cskonopka
Great question. The last two times I performed I improvised using video feedback live and it went very well. I was using a 7" LCD backup screen with a CMOS camera as the main feedback source. From there I generally try to blend generated waveforms with the feedback + wipes to control the blinking/shaping the design. It's hard to tell though, sometimes it's just a twist of a knob and it comes back or it is lost. This being said, from what I've found as of late is that setting up channels with various keying parameters (blue/white/black) can help with triggering the feedback. At that point it's like poking a pond.

So in this video the feedback channel is doubled vertically then another channel of mirrored waveforms is being keyed on-top of the feedback channel. Then it starts to eat itself.
FetidEye
I have a VJ project that uses only analog feedback as its source material (called "de oplichters")
I've VJed (or FJ'ed - feedback jockey) for over 10 years with this project.
Never had complaints about psychedelics w00t

The only thing that we had an issue with is that sometimes the colors get washed out by white, because (i think) of over-staturnating the colors
(we use a lot of video effects like colorisers, video EQ's etc)

A symptom of this use of flashing spiral / fractal material is that you, as a VJ , get free psychedelics in your eyes (which can last for a few hours) after the show (because of watching 8 hours of flashing tv checkmonitors)

So I wouldn't worry about it.
Video can be intense, but that might just be what is positively remembered after the show.
arbito
Cskonopka,

Very helpful tips, you bring up a good point. It is just as much of problem losing the signal. Although recently I did get a good solution that works for me. In between my feedback path I have glitch modded vid equalizer that I can wriggle to generate static to get the feedback loop started again.

You must have several mixers to dedicate color keys to several channels?
I'll have to check out your video at work, the link/video isn't showing up on my iPad. It's a forum bug. waah
arbito
cskonopka wrote:

So in this video the feedback channel is doubled vertically then another channel of mirrored waveforms is being keyed on-top of the feedback channel. Then it starts to eat itself.


Looks awesome! Finally got a peek at it this morning.
Arturo00
I do live video a lot, and video feedback is one of my favorite things to do. I hear what you're saying with your concern for people's eyes. I personally fear the day will come when my visuals send someone into some sort of seizure eek! (I've thought about putting up warning signs).

But I digress. Most of my feedback is done with the Edirol V4 mixer. As far as I'm concerned, nothing beats feeding back my V4 in one of the negative modes! That's when you can really get some crazy strobe action.

Occaionally I feedback within the LZX system (usually feedback into the TVMF). This video is pretty much just a synthesized square feeding back into the TVMF.


This video is nothing but V4 and MX10 feeding back into one another. The lines and patterns is the MX10. All the smudgey and strobed stuff is the V4. That thing that could pass as some sort of warp drive energy core is both mixers, but with the V4 in mirror mode. The MX10 is capable of some truly amazing lines and patterns, if you can figure out how to exploit it. If you ever get one, drop me a line - I'll give you a few tips smile



I also have a few TBCs that I use for feedback. Both produce very different results. This one is my Sony TBC and V4. Those weird looking drapes and jagged patterns are all the Sony! The smudgy and strobed stuff is the V4.



Sometimes I'll use camera feedback, send that through my LZX Divisions and then set that channel on the V4 on the mirror effect. Like this:

https://www.instagram.com/p/s-mO_uCcFs
thatfritzguy
It can happen! I played a show and had someone go into a small seizure and then pass out (I was playing music, friend doing visuals). He was totally ok, said he'd come to all our shows. I think he was prone to seizures tho, he didn't seem terribly surprised.

Early on I had some out of control flashing/pulsing build up due to auto-gain/auto-brightness settings engaged on the camera. A world of difference after switching all the auto stuff off.
arbito
Arturo00 wrote:
I do live video a lot, and video feedback is one of my favorite things to do. I hear what you're saying with your concern for people's eyes. I personally fear the day will come when my visuals send someone into some sort of seizure eek! (I've thought about putting up warning signs).

But I digress. Most of my feedback is done with the Edirol V4 mixer. As far as I'm concerned, nothing beats feeding back my V4 in one of the negative modes! That's when you can really get some crazy strobe action.

Occaionally I feedback within the LZX system (usually feedback into the TVMF). This video is pretty much just a synthesized square feeding back into the TVMF.


This video is nothing but V4 and MX10 feeding back into one another. The lines and patterns is the MX10. All the smudgey and strobed stuff is the V4. That thing that could pass as some sort of warp drive energy core is both mixers, but with the V4 in mirror mode. The MX10 is capable of some truly amazing lines and patterns, if you can figure out how to exploit it. If you ever get one, drop me a line - I'll give you a few tips smile



I also have a few TBCs that I use for feedback. Both produce very different results. This one is my Sony TBC and V4. Those weird looking drapes and jagged patterns are all the Sony! The smudgy and strobed stuff is the V4.



Sometimes I'll use camera feedback, send that through my LZX Divisions and then set that channel on the V4 on the mirror effect. Like this:

https://www.instagram.com/p/s-mO_uCcFs


Holy Crap! All these videos are awesome. I'll have to check out that MX10, looks super handy. I picked up a panasonic mx50 recently, super fun but so huge!

I didn't realize that TBC's were capable of creating effects. I thought they were simply a utility device for making sure video has the correct timing. When using the TBC's do you run the risk of a blue screen if you push it too hard?

Big fan of that last video, psychedelic mountain tops! It's peanut butter jelly time!
arbito
thatfritzguy wrote:
It can happen! I played a show and had someone go into a small seizure and then pass out (I was playing music, friend doing visuals). He was totally ok, said he'd come to all our shows. I think he was prone to seizures tho, he didn't seem terribly surprised.

Early on I had some out of control flashing/pulsing build up due to auto-gain/auto-brightness settings engaged on the camera. A world of difference after switching all the auto stuff off.


OMG! That would be so scary, my worst nightmare. Sounds like it ended up being not a big deal in the end.

I've been looking on my vixia digital cam for an auto brightness setting for a while, but I've never found it. It does have auto white balance, which seems to help a bit.
thatfritzguy
Nah, don't let it scare you. It could've been any number of factors, we were just quick to take credit. I think more people were interested to check out our show after that.
BOB-SNARE
Check out RECOMMENDATION ITU-R BT.1702
Guidance for the reduction of photosensitive
epileptic seizures caused by television

http://www.itu.int/dms_pubrec/itu-r/rec/bt/R-REC-BT.1702-0-200502-I!!P DF-E.pdf
arbito
Thanks Ed, that's a scientific read. Gave it a look though, and my best to try to understand it.
f4c3v4lu3
Arturo00 wrote:
I do live video a lot, and video feedback is one of my favorite things to do. I hear what you're saying with your concern for people's eyes. I personally fear the day will come when my visuals send someone into some sort of seizure eek! (I've thought about putting up warning signs).

But I digress. Most of my feedback is done with the Edirol V4 mixer. As far as I'm concerned, nothing beats feeding back my V4 in one of the negative modes! That's when you can really get some crazy strobe action.

Occaionally I feedback within the LZX system (usually feedback into the TVMF). This video is pretty much just a synthesized square feeding back into the TVMF.


This video is nothing but V4 and MX10 feeding back into one another. The lines and patterns is the MX10. All the smudgey and strobed stuff is the V4. That thing that could pass as some sort of warp drive energy core is both mixers, but with the V4 in mirror mode. The MX10 is capable of some truly amazing lines and patterns, if you can figure out how to exploit it. If you ever get one, drop me a line - I'll give you a few tips smile



I also have a few TBCs that I use for feedback. Both produce very different results. This one is my Sony TBC and V4. Those weird looking drapes and jagged patterns are all the Sony! The smudgy and strobed stuff is the V4.



Sometimes I'll use camera feedback, send that through my LZX Divisions and then set that channel on the V4 on the mirror effect. Like this:

https://www.instagram.com/p/s-mO_uCcFs


Wow! All of this is really inspiring! And that square video is really making me want to find a TVMF...

At this point I've probably done ~8 shows with live video projection and haven't had anyone complain about wild video feedback (which we make judicious use of...) - I generally do get up on stage and make an announcement re: potential epilepsy sufferers needing to beware before we start however.

As far as embarrassing moments go - my most embarrassing moments tend to be when a patch is going great and then I move a knob or fader and everything goes into pure white or black! I usually just try to wait for the next rhythmic (if there's a strong rhythm...) point and bring the video back, then flip back and forth between those things a few times so it seems like I meant to do it!
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