MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index
 FAQ & Terms of UseFAQ & Terms Of Use   Wiggler RadioMW Radio   Muff Wiggler TwitterTwitter   Support the site @ PatreonPatreon 
 SearchSearch   RegisterSign up   Log inLog in 
WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

What's the best AD/DA audio interface out there?
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Production Techniques Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next [all]
Author What's the best AD/DA audio interface out there?
mooghappy
Is it the Apogee Rosetta?

My motu 828 mkIII just isn't cutting it for me.
GeneralBigBag
Maybe Weiss or Lavry?
I bet you'd get some good answers in the High End section of GS.
bar|none
Really? I love mine. I'm sure lots of people willing to take it off your hands especially since it does DC coupled output.

I think I remember the Apogees are not dc coupled.

Apogee is certainly one of the high end.
Metric halo as well.

Oh there is always higher end. In fact I think there are people who mod them with the highest quality converters etc.
Mr White
828 mk3 converters are'nt so good...

I switched to it from a twin delta 1010 that was WAY better... cry
goiks
I had a Lavry DA10 and AD10 that were excellent as far as my amateur ears could tell. I sold them a while back and have a Metric Halo LIO-8 on the way. The Metric Halo includes bussing/summing/DSP otherwise unavailable in one box. They're expensive, but IMHO have good value given their specs and what is included.

The answers to your question including this one will be largely subjective, but you may want to check out the Metric Halo ULN-8 or LIO-8.
citizen mori
the ssl alpha-link is quite good. when one measures the cost per channel it becomes pure robbery.

if firewire is necessary, prism's orpheus is consummate! i haven't heard better, personally... but i've never been in front of a lavry.

strange to me is i enjoy decadent a/d/d/a, it pleases me to no end, yet my most favorite music was, for the most part, recorded to cassette or adat. seriously, i just don't get it
bar|none
Oh man I hated the Delta 1010, Hehe. Mainly though because the routing was really limited, especially for creating zero latency cue mixes and such.

BTW, what with the Black Lion Mod you can make to the MOTUs. Supposed to replace the stock converters? Could be interesting.
JohnLRice
I love love love love love love my Lavry Blue converters! we're not worthy There are also other very fine converters in the world but you'd be hard pressed to do better and can't go wrong IMHO with Lavry! 8_) thumbs up
bar|none
http://blacklionaudio.com/content.php?p=10

Interesting

"In the world of converters, there is a pervasive myth that the converter quality matters the most, and that the analog stages are not important. We know that this isn't true. In MOTU's case, the use of NJM4580 and NJM2115 opamps is one of the biggest liabilities to sound quality."

"A second weak spot is definitely the clock. It's based around Texas Instruments TLC2933, which is a VCO and PLL all in one. Jitter is high in comparison to good converter clocks-the datasheet claims at least 120 picoseconds, although I suspect it's much higher than that because of power supply noise."
Entrainer
I'm going with Forssell:

http://www.forsselltech.com/products/madcpreamp.html

This is just the A/D. There's a A/D-D/A for $1000 more,
but it's not on the website. It's prototyped and shipping.

BTW-

You can have your MOTU MKIII modified by Black Lion Audio
and improve the quality.
citizen mori
the recordings you've made (for example, the mx-4s panning demonstration) sound fine to my ears, bar|none. i reckon your converters aren't holding you back. love

that being said, i do like black lion. i use a sparrow as the converter from the main l/r from my mixing desk.

http://www.blacklionaudio.com/content.php?p=2
bar|none
@citizen mori
Thx!

Well it's complex for me since I have 3 audio interfaces. MOTU 828 mkIII main, MOTU Ultralite (DC coupled cv in /out and monitoring for modular), and tc konnekt 24D dedicated to pacarana and connected S/PDIF optical to 828 mkIII.

I can clock all 3 with the 828 internal clock, but with an external clock, only 828 mkIII has dedicated clock in.

Could be a world of pain messing with it, since maybe not the best but it works right now. wink
essex sound lab
citizen mori wrote:

strange to me is i enjoy decadent a/d/d/a, it pleases me to no end, yet my most favorite music was, for the most part, recorded to cassette or adat. seriously, i just don't get it


And there are those that run their audio through old Pioneer consumer 8-tracks to warm them up.

I'm all for seeking quality in things, and it's nice to know that a given piece of kit is not a limiting factor. But in the end it's up to your ears and what you do with the equipment you have.
ignatius
when it comes to converters.. you get to a certain price point and they are all really good...

it becomes a matter of preference.

there are countless threads on gearslutz w/A/B comparisons of the A/D stage of various converters and the D/A stage of others.. it's a hilarious.

but there is info to be gathered in those threads. if you go there and use the search function you'll find lot's of info to support whatever you already think.

in my converter search of a couple years ago i looked a lot.. i'll summarize for you.

my situation was.. i had (still do) an RME fireface800 and wanted to add more channels via the adat i/o.. so i needed a stand alone converter that had adat support..

apogee: rosetta/AD 16 and most apogee's in general all get high praise but the DA stage has an apparent mid range bump so what you are hearing at the analog output is not "exactly" what is in your DAW. meaning that the DA of the apogee isn't giving you a truly accurate representation of what your mix sounds like. this came up in many threads and was confirmed by many apogee users.
the thing is.. a lot of them liked it and were summing outside the box so it didn't matter since they were mixing after the DA stage and mixing what they were hearing (mid range bump). i was told by a pro audio dealer that a lot of the "rock guys like that apogee sound".

everyone seemed to love the apogee AD stage but many preferred, in a blind test, the RME fireface DA stage when compared to a rosetta. seriously, i just don't get it

Lynx aurora - accurate and not colored.. what goes in is what comes out. (this is what i ended up with and i couldn't be happier) i didn't want a converter to have a "sound" i just want them to capture the sounds i make.

lavry - SUPER accurate and not colored.. the epitome of "what goes in is what comes out" and you'll pay for that. quite spendy for 8 channels

mytek, metric halo, prism orpheus, UA 2192 etc.. all excellent and fall into the "pro" category and cost what they cost for a reason. a mastering engineer friend of mine uses the UA2192 and says it's the best converter he's every used and the analog stage is amazing.. yada yada yada..

keep in mind that my first statement.. "when you get to a certian price range it's about preference" is true.. if you are gonna spend a bunch of money on a converter find a way to demo them either in a showroom or at someone else's studio..

it really is splitting hairs though.. i love my RME fireface and it's never failed me and sounds great and has great drivers. the lynx aurora adds 8 channels at 24/96 over 2 sets of adat i/o.

i think you'll hear a difference between low end converters and higher end converters adn i do think you get what you pay for but that you shouldn't buy into the hype.

you'll hear the difference more when you are listening to complete mixes as opposed to isolated single tracks. the depth, detail, stereo image, the top end and low end etc...

i wouldn't agonize too much though...
Audio Resistance
@ ignatius

When you set up the Lynx lightpiped into the RME does the RME send clock to the Lynx?
ignatius
Audio Resistance wrote:
@ ignatius

When you set up the Lynx lightpiped into the RME does the RME send clock to the Lynx?


either way. i use the lynx as the master but the RME can be the master as well. either way it always stays locked. it's as easy as pressing a button the front panel of the aurora8 and setting the RME fireface control to be either master or slave.

clock signal is embedded in the lightpipe. you don't need a BNC cable for the WC.

also, re the adat on the lynx.. the adat card on the aurora8 has 2 sets of adat i/o so you can do smux and use both sets to get 8 channels at 24/96 if so desired (the fireface has 2 sets of aday i/o as well and also supports smux).

i've thought about getting an aurora16 w/adat card and selling the aurora 8 just to have more channels but then i'd be limited to running at 24/48 if i wanted to use all 16 channels (unless i got the lynx pcie card and used their cable) which really is no big deal and will make my CPU have more oomph for other things like plug ins.
modularland
its been said before- but

#1 never use firewire- use a PC card w/ SPDIF

#2 Apogee, Lynx, Mytek, Prism, Weiss UA2192 via SPDIF (not Toslink)

will get best results

check out

http://www.mercenary.com/addaconversion.html
ignatius
modularland wrote:
its been said before- but

#1 never use firewire- use a PC card w/ SPDIF


the reason people say that is the latency inherent in FW as a protocol and how it handles it.. but i've never had a "problem" and have no latency complaints. though i'm sure performance would improve w/a PCIe card. i think pcie is something that over many systems will yield the same results where as FW will be different on one system than the next.. FW for me is a convenience.

modularland wrote:
#2 Apogee, Lynx, Mytek, Prism, Weiss UA2192 via SPDIF (not Toslink)

will get best results

check out

http://www.mercenary.com/addaconversion.html


spdif is only 2 channels.. i think AES/EBU is where you'll get "best" results but every situation is different. there aren't many sound cards w/multichannel break out boxes for spdif.. they're all aes or lightbpipe or something proprietary.
JohnLRice
modularland wrote:
#2 Apogee, Lynx, Mytek, Prism, Weiss UA2192 via SPDIF (not Toslink) will get best results


I'd at least add Lavry to that list! thumbs up And I suggest if you want the arguably best results, go with AES connections over SPDIF. (it supports higher sampling rates and is a more robust 'balanced' connection)

Since Mercenary cut ties with Lavry meh check out the following dealers for Lavry products:

http://www.frontendaudio.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=Lavry

http://www.vintageking.com/New-Brands/Lavry?gclid=CMTJmoG6uaECFRRUgwod W1cI-w&range=1%2C6%2C19

http://www.proaudiosolutions.com/A-to-D-Converters-s/94.htm

http://soniccircus.com/categories?search=lavry
mooghappy
Great suggestions, lots of stuff I'll have to check out!

I just definitely notice something lacking when I go through the motu 828mk3, it really cuts some of the life out, though it's definitely more than usable quality.

So using FW is just a latency issue, not a sound quality issue?
I haven't noticed any issues right now using the FW, but I never really payed attention to it either.
ignatius
mooghappy wrote:


So using FW is just a latency issue, not a sound quality issue?
I haven't noticed any issues right now using the FW, but I never really payed attention to it either.


well, i may get this all wrong. but FW doesn't equal a consistent latency every time you use your DAW.. or something like that. has to do w/how FW handles packets of data. i've never had any problems either.. if i had a studio where i was recording live bands and needed zero latency or something then i'd go for a PCIe solution for faster through put and i believe i read something about PCIe having a lower impact on CPU and it also of course frees up your FW bus for something else.

there's stuff on line if you google FW vs PCIe or something like that or even search on GS for it.

personally, for my needs, it works perfectly and always has and there are no performance issues that i notice.
mooghappy
That's interesting, I will have to do some research on it.

I don't think it will be a big issue for me since I won't be recording live bands anytime soon, but it's something I had no awareness of previously, so it's good to know that the issue is potentially out there.
ignatius
mooghappy wrote:
That's interesting, I will have to do some research on it.

I don't think it will be a big issue for me since I won't be recording live bands anytime soon, but it's something I had no awareness of previously, so it's good to know that the issue is potentially out there.


i think it's splitting hairs a bit ya know. i know tons of people recording bands, doing performances w/live input being looped and processed and all using FW interfaces...

they all seem pretty content.

i routinely record many multiple tracks w/o any hiccups... or sync audio/soft synths/midi w/o any issues and i'm running a 2.5 quad G5
mooghappy
Lol. I tend to split hairs more often than necessary.
Point taken.
Morley
SSL Alphalink
Great sounding converters. BARGAIN!
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Production Techniques Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next [all]
Page 1 of 3
Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group