MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index
 FAQ & Terms of UseFAQ & Terms Of Use   Wiggler RadioMW Radio   Muff Wiggler TwitterTwitter   Support the site @ PatreonPatreon 
 SearchSearch   RegisterSign up   Log inLog in 
WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Help choosing a midi to cv 5U module
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> 5U Format Modules Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next [all]
Author Help choosing a midi to cv 5U module
Jamnuska
Ok, so I was advised to start a new thread:

Question was why should I choose a M551 (Moon) over a Dotcom (Q174)? After much reading on the Muffs it seems there is a consensus to choose the M551 over the Q174 but I don't see any explanations why. As per cost M551 1 space for $225 vs Q174 $264 plus another $130 if you add the Q175 with an additional space.

I know there are other midi modules out there and feel free to tell me which you prefer. I am not a keyboardist and see myself using mostly sequencers but I can blast out some chords and ROYGBIV.

kindredlost was kind enough to post this regarding my previous hijack:
"I have had a few different ones. Currently I have a MOTM 650 (obsolete) and Dotcom Q104 (obsolete). Apparently I could do with a newer set of MIDI modules. hihi

My main interest is in multi-channel (not poly-note) MIDI Interface with many extra Continuous Controllers as this would facilitate my workflow from the DAW better than a keyboard driven MIDI Interface. I do use the poly-note keyboard style setup occasionally but not as much as multi-channel from the DAW.

With that constraint in mind I can see differences between the Q174/Q175 and the Moon M551.

The extra CC's, all 16 MIDI channels selectable and separating the pitch bender from the CV output on the M551 makes for a very flexible multi-modulation source. The Q174 and Q175 have a more limited amount of assignable CC's but there are three of the more useful ones. Also there are only four assignable MIDI channels on the Dotcom pair. I think the strength of the Dotcom pair is the poly note, MIDI Merge and arpeggiators etc..

I like the idea of a robust MIDI Interface which I could buy several of for each MIDI Channel like the M551. I could see several of these side-by-side for each MIDI channel from a DAW sending very robust info to the modular for real-time execution of a multi-timbre, multi-voice patch. As a matter of fact I could be better off with several of these rather than the MOTM 650. A much more flexible DAW setup, but weaker if you wish to play in a poly-note mode from a keyboard.

I think the difference is the intention of the designer. The Dotcom is superb for the "player" of a keyboard driven synth setup. The Moon module I feel is better for the DAW driven setup. Both will do each well but I think one is stronger for each different approach."

Amazing analysis and a lot of it over my head but that makes me look this stuff up which is good.
JohnLRice
Jamnuska wrote:
Question was why should I choose a M551 (Moon) over a Dotcom (Q174)? After much reading on the Muffs it seems there is a consensus to choose the M551 over the Q174 but I don't see any explanations why.
I thought it was the other way around? hmmm..... Mr. Green I have the Moon 551 and really like it and have never tried the DotCom Q174 but it seems the Q174 offers a lot more capability for the money? I'd definitely take a M551 over a Q104 any day though, I had that one for a short time and didn't like it much. (mainly because the 'note priority' was weird to me)

I think if you are going to be running a lot of MIDI channels from your DAW you might take a serious look at the Expert Sleepers brand Silent Way stuff. I've never used it but it's popular with eurorack folks. Unless things have evolved, what you do is use a DC coupled audio computer interface, like a MOTU 8 or 12 channel box, and then along with some software and a bit of eurorack hardware your DAW MIDI is very accurately delivered to your modular. I think there was talk of a 5U module but maybe it never happened because the interest wasn't high enough?

Also, take a look at external boxes like the Kenton http://www.kentonuk.com/products/items/m-cv/p2000.shtml and the Encore Electronics one:
http://www.encoreelectronics.com/cont_expres.html

Also, I think there are some very impressive eurorack MIDI modules currently available. For instance the following might be nice?
http://www.noisebug.net/site/mutableinstruments/index.cfm?ID=6
http://www.noisebug.net/site/eurorack_doepfer/index.cfm?ID=8
johny_gtr
I've bought Kenton Pro solo and wait when someone will port Mutable Instruments Yarns in MU format.
coyoteous
Wait a minute, my MOTM 650 is "obsolete?"

Crap, I only powered it up for the first time a few days ago... if I'd known that, I wouldn't have bothered!

Kidding, but I did just fire it up after ten or so years sitting in one of my treasure chambers (closet)... need to figure out how to update the firmware.

Anyway, carry on... following with interest.
JohnLRice
coyoteous wrote:
Wait a minute, my MOTM 650 is "obsolete?"
eek! Mr. Green Probably "discontinued" is the correct word to use. cool The MOTM-650 is one of the best, possibly THE best MIDI interface modules to ever be made, in ANY format! w00t thumbs up
sduck
JohnLRice wrote:
what you do is use a DC coupled audio computer interface, like a MOTM 8 or 12 channel box


No that would be MOTU. The 650 is only 4 channels...
coyoteous
JohnLRice wrote:
coyoteous wrote:
Wait a minute, my MOTM 650 is "obsolete?"

eek! Mr. Green cool w00t thumbs up

Thanks, kinda says it all, right there... you'd have made a good ancient Egyptian!
JohnLRice
sduck wrote:
JohnLRice wrote:
what you do is use a DC coupled audio computer interface, like a MOTM 8 or 12 channel box


No that would be MOTU. The 650 is only 4 channels...
You are such a fucking genius! f u
bwhittington
Miley Cyrus
kindredlost
I started to mention Mutable Instruments Yarns in my other post but omitted it due to trying to stay within the format. I have no experience with either the Q174, M551 or Yarns but did own the CVPal from MI. It would act wonky and loose notes etc., but that could have been my usb port. Yarns looks pretty cool and I wanted it right off when it came out.

If we are discussing outside the format, then I will mention my most appealing unobtainium find and that is the Hexinverter MIDI2CV. I would try the kit version if I knew I could port it over to 5U, (and if it were available)... evil

http://www.hexinverter.net/utilities/



In the same realm, if Grove Audio would make the GMS-740EU in large format that would be nice. Heck any format would be nice... hint-hint

There are lots of midi interfaces in Euro to choose from but 5U has a couple of nice offerings already mentioned.

I used Expert Sleepers Silent Way when it first came out and it was okay. It does work well and the new generation of modules are much better than the early days when there wasn't a dedicated module available. Now you can buy a module instead of dedicating your audio interface to the function. It is different than MIDI so there is a little learning curve but actually has much more power in performance aspects. Whole other topic though.

JLR is right about the Q104. It was a smart move for Roger to ditch that doorstop. It is okay for single note info but really isn't very useful compared to the Q174/Q175 combo or almost any other midi interface available. I just keep it around for posterity. Dead Banana
sduck
JohnLRice wrote:
sduck wrote:
JohnLRice wrote:
what you do is use a DC coupled audio computer interface, like a MOTM 8 or 12 channel box


No that would be MOTU. The 650 is only 4 channels...
You are such a fucking genius! f u


Yes I am. Sorry! The light bulb flashed on over my head right after I posted that - you know, the one that says DORK DORK DORK...
Jamnuska
Well I am building 5U and euro setups. I am filling the euro with cheaper/stranger modules which I am not seeing in 5U.

I have an external mixer/interface (soundcraft sig 10). I just got it and I stare at all the buttons and sliders and wonder what they do. I am not a musician (hence why I play bass), I am a stupid medic/ff.

If there was a way of using MI Yarns in euro to use for 5U I would be good with that. Yarns looks amazing (I know more about Euro modules than 5U). Just not sure if that is doable or not and I don't want to spend that money and find out it is not.

And just to be clear I never said there was problems with Dotcoms stuff. I just got the impression from reading every post I could find that more people were recommending the Moon. I am open for any suggestions.
kindredlost
In your case Yarns seems the logical approach. There is no reason you can't use it with your 5U system. Mr. Rice showed a jack conversion module in 3U and there is the Dotcom Q122 Mini Jack Interface as well. I built me one as it is passive and is a matter of wiring and no circuitry. I am a bass player too so if I can do it... hihi
Jamnuska
Why not just use 1/4" to euro cables? I think with the q122 you would quickly run out of room.

That Silent way stuff just sounds complicated. Issues with Reaktor6, not sure they have all the bugs out of USMAO or whatever that is called. Less computer and more modular is preferred. You should see me trying to figure out my Bitwig daw. hmmm.....

I can weld but have never tried soldering. Was going to try dipping my toe in and inhaling some lead fumes in the future. Dead Banana

Fave bass player T-shirt (NSFW). http://www.spectremedia.ca/product/rule-2-shirt/

Anyway this is all great info btw.

edited for more spiel
JohnLRice
Jamnuska wrote:
Why not just use 1/4" to euro cables?
Yeah, I think the TecNec cables from Markertek are pretty decent and least expensive I've seen at $1.79 each for 3' length. (6, 10, 15 and 25 foot ones also available) They are not white like the picture looks, more of a medium grey.
http://www.markertek.com/product/sp-m-3/tecnec-1-4in-mono-male-mini-mo no-male-molded-audio-cable-3ft
peachfuzzmcgee
I have a 551 which I like enough but honestly it's lacking in many ways. Enough ways that I might get rid of it in favor of a euro option or maybe find a DIY option I can build. I sometimes get hung notes but that's mostly user error, the other is the bitch bend add switch is absolutely useless since you can change the degree which it bends so essentially you only get massive pitch bends.

For now it solves what I need but I honestly wish the MOTM 650 was still around and with new specs for MU. I would grab that so quick.

As far as cables I see a lot of cheap 3.5mm to 1/4 cables around, I just make my own even if they are a bit of a pain.
JohnLRice
peachfuzzmcgee wrote:
the bitch bend add switch is absolutely useless since you can't change the degree which it bends so essentially you only get massive pitch bends.
lol Typo or not, that's an accurate name for the pitch bend add!

The problem is that the MIDI spec just sends the full range of the wheel (I think) regardless of how much of the range your current keyboard is using.

I had made a suggestion to Gert to change the "Add Bend CV" switch to a center off toggle and then have the up position be full range, as it is now and then have the down position be attenuated or quantized to be just a one full step/2 semitones (since that's what I'm typically comfortable using). Thinking about it now, he could also add some jumpers for selecting how many semitones the range should be and call the down position "User" or similar?

What would people think are good ranges? I'd think 1, 2, 4, 7 and 12 semitones might cover what most people might want to use? hmmm.....
kindredlost
Jamnuska wrote:
I can weld but have never tried soldering. Was going to try dipping my toe in and inhaling some lead fumes in the future. Dead Banana


lol I've been a welder for 40 years and soldering for just as long but my solders look like crap. If I did it for a living I might get better at it.

I use about 50 of the Hosa 3.5mm to 1/4" cables from Musician's Friend and run out all the time. That's why I have the home-made jack module. I call it "Jacked Up" because it looks like it and yet it fits right in with the Eurovibe. hihi

It was super easy because I used these Amphenol jacks. I can get 6 or 8 of them up a panel height (I can't remember as I'm at work). The soldering is short jumper wires between the 1/4" and 3.5mm jacks. They are not common for whatever reason but it's real easy.

http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=ACJS-MVD985-5virtual key52380000virtualkey523-ACJS-MVD985-5

Mouser part number 523-ACJS-MVD985-5

JohnLRice
kindredlost wrote:
http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=ACJS-MVD985-5virtual key52380000virtualkey523-ACJS-MVD985-5

Mouser part number 523-ACJS-MVD985-5

Wow, those are cool! I don't think I've ever seen then before?!
Stereotactixxx
JohnLRice wrote:
peachfuzzmcgee wrote:
the bitch bend add switch is absolutely useless since you can't change the degree which it bends so essentially you only get massive pitch bends.
lol Typo or not, that's an accurate name for the pitch bend add!

The problem is that the MIDI spec just sends the full range of the wheel (I think) regardless of how much of the range your current keyboard is using.

I had made a suggestion to Gert to change the "Add Bend CV" switch to a center off toggle and then have the up position be full range, as it is now and then have the down position be attenuated or quantized to be just a one full step/2 semitones (since that's what I'm typically comfortable using). Thinking about it now, he could also add some jumpers for selecting how many semitones the range should be and call the down position "User" or similar?

What would people think are good ranges? I'd think 1, 2, 4, 7 and 12 semitones might cover what most people might want to use? hmmm.....

The Oakley MidiDAC has a pot that solves the scaling of the added bend.
It seems like a nice module, but I have no personal experience with it though.
mmarsh
I have this from Midisizer:



works great, if you can solder...
stevebryson
A strong vote for the Encore Expressionist: 8 easily configurable CV outputs + 8 gates. Lots of configurable LFOs, glide, etc. It's a 1U tall 19" wide rack mount, which may or may not be an advantage. It's even recently been upgraded to play nicely with the Roli Seaboard Rise 49. Pricey, but I find it very worth the money.
coyoteous
Aren't those obsolete, too?
Squattamolie
I have the Moon 551, and also a Q174/175. I like them both but if it had to be one, it would be the Q174/5. I find the Aid module quite useful. One example is that you can input a series of CC4 commands in your Daw (just on/off, 127/0) in whatever time divisions or patterns you want, then feed that from the 174 to the clock in of the arpeggiator in the 175 and presto! Another cool little feature is Roger set CC65 (portamento switch) to bypass or enable the portamento - pretty neat! It would be awesome if CC5 (portamento time) was implemented as well, but that (I'm guessing) would have been impractical.

Another feature I like about the Q174 is the "add input", for merging another pitch CV stream (from a sequencer or whatever), I've found that handy at times.
JohnLRice
coyoteous wrote:
Aren't those obsolete, too?
Which? the Encore Expressionist? It's listed as available on the website.

http://www.encoreelectronics.com/cont_product.html
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> 5U Format Modules Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next [all]
Page 1 of 4
Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group