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Vactrols: fast vs. slow, and triggering vs. enveloping
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Author Vactrols: fast vs. slow, and triggering vs. enveloping
matt.patey
Does anyone know if the vactrols used in the 1200 series Borg 2 filter are any different from those used in the Boogie? If so are they slower or faster?
consumed
matt.patey wrote:
Does anyone know if the vactrols used in the 1200 series Borg 2 filter are any different from those used in the Boogie? If so are they slower or faster?


i set up an LPG patch between my borg2 and boogie and A/Bd them. i could not perceive a difference.


[EDIT: borg2 (1200 series), not the borg 1.]]
Muff Wiggler
they are the same 10ms vactrols in both filters

the original 300 Series "Borg Filters" (Borg 1) uses 200ms vactrols, the Borg II and Boogie (in both 300 and 1200 series formats) use the 10ms ones
matt.patey
Hey sorry guys I just realized Grant had posted this info on wiard.com I just discovered the convenience of a vactrol's lag in that a vactrol filter can be modded with a trigger signal, and I love the sound that results from doing this. However, I'm wondering if it's possible to simulate a slower vactrol by sending a quickly decaying envelope to the control in of a vactrol filter. I guess what I'm really asking is if there is a significant difference between the shape of a vactrol opening and closing and that of a quick AD envelope, and how that shape difference might affect the overall sound you get from the filter.
plord
Hmm. Given how vactrols are renowned for smoothing things out, I'm going to guess that with the right envelope shape, you could exactly mimic the triggered LPG decay characteristics. But I have no idea about the stability of that shape for a given vactrol.

That is: is one of the reasons that the triggered LPG sounds so great the fact that each decay is minutely different? Can you hear that difference, if so? and can you program a VC envelope decay with enough subtlety to capture both the shape and the variation? smile
matt.patey
plord wrote:
Hmm. Given how vactrols are renowned for smoothing things out, I'm going to guess that with the right envelope shape, you could exactly mimic the triggered LPG decay characteristics. But I have no idea about the stability of that shape for a given vactrol.

That is: is one of the reasons that the triggered LPG sounds so great the fact that each decay is minutely different? Can you hear that difference, if so? and can you program a VC envelope decay with enough subtlety to capture both the shape and the variation? smile


Possibly, but I'm starting to lean towards using this as an excuse to buy myself some Wiard 300 kit :-)
Muff Wiggler
i think that's a very wise choice 8)
Karl Jeffers
plord wrote:
Hmm. Given how vactrols are renowned for smoothing things out, I'm going to guess that with the right envelope shape, you could exactly mimic the triggered LPG decay characteristics. But I have no idea about the stability of that shape for a given vactrol.

That is: is one of the reasons that the triggered LPG sounds so great the fact that each decay is minutely different? Can you hear that difference, if so? and can you program a VC envelope decay with enough subtlety to capture both the shape and the variation? smile


Would a slew limmiter, after the envelope, with a bit of random lfo into its cv input work?
plord
Hell if I know smile but that sounds like one way. I guess I'm curious if the closing of a low pass gate has a definite and consistent slope. Have to see if I can get it up on the scope when I put the studio back together.

Or, not, because this is exactly the sort of brainy minutia that keeps me from recording more stuff. but I AM curious, so...maybe.
Kwote
one vote for brainy minutia!
indexofmetals
if you ask Grant nicely, he will put the slow vactrols (original borg type) in the borg2. I've got one on order with him like this, to go with a normal borg2 I've already got. he said he can't do this with the boogie though
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