1U tile formats

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JoeJoeJoe
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1U tile formats

Post by JoeJoeJoe » Wed Aug 24, 2016 8:24 pm

Hi all, I recently picked up a case with a 1U row, and then ordered some 1U modules, excited to use them. After they arrived, I discovered that all 1U is not created the same, and they weren't compatible.

Is there a good guide to the various 1U formats anywhere, so I don't get burned again, and can figure out what tiles my case can actually hold?

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exper
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Post by exper » Wed Aug 24, 2016 8:27 pm

Most existing tiles with the exception of Intellijel fit the Pulp Logic/Synthrotek/Erthenvar cases. Intellijel so far is the only brand that will fit their own cases although the standards are published for anyone to use.

What tiles/case did you buy?
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Post by JoeJoeJoe » Wed Aug 24, 2016 8:56 pm

It was an Intellijel case, and Pulp Logic 1U tiles.

I had no opinions on 1U until I picked up the case this weekend at the Seattle synth meetup. I mostly got it because I needed a power supply and more room for modules, and it was the only brand of case sold there. Once I started looking into what modules were available at 1U I started getting excited, a lot of inexpensive little utility things I need. Now I'm not so happy.
If they aren't compatible, why is everything just listed as the same 1U everywhere like modulargrid and online shops?

I picked up one Intellijel 1U tile with the case, a passive mult. The Pulp Logic tiles I ordered aren't passive, and have connectors I'm not quite sure how / where to plug into the case even if they had fit.

Is the power compatible, or is everything different?

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Post by shamann » Wed Aug 24, 2016 9:00 pm

The PulpLogic tiles use a special adapter, can be ordered here:

http://pulplogic.com/product/euro-to-tile-power/

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Post by dumbledog » Wed Aug 24, 2016 9:04 pm

Everything is different. PulpLogic tiles use these little "tile tail" connectors that go with their lunch boxes. For cases without the tail connectors they have a separate cable that lets you connect three tiles to a single normal 16-pin connector. Intellijel on the other hand use regular connectors... I think.

It'd be awful nice if Intellijel would state this stuff on their site given that they weren't exactly first on the 1U scene but welp, here we are.

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exper
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Post by exper » Wed Aug 24, 2016 9:25 pm

dumbledog wrote:Everything is different. PulpLogic tiles use these little "tile tail" connectors that go with their lunch boxes. For cases without the tail connectors they have a separate cable that lets you connect three tiles to a single normal 16-pin connector. Intellijel on the other hand use regular connectors... I think.

It'd be awful nice if Intellijel would state this stuff on their site given that they weren't exactly first on the 1U scene but welp, here we are.
There is info on their site: https://intellijel.com/technical-specifications/

Intellijel does use regular connectors as mentioned.

As for a "standard" it has still been all over the place. Monome's 1u strip is more that 1u, Some companies use regular power connectors still like vermona.

The reason for the difference comes from the rails. Pulp logic designed theirs around rails without lips, so that the few mm on the top and bottom are available. Intellijel's extruded cases have lips (many other cases do as well) and so had to be a hair smaller to make sure they could fit in 4u rack frames.
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Post by dumbledog » Wed Aug 24, 2016 9:44 pm

Why isn't that info on their page for their 4U cases? https://intellijel.com/4u-cases/

On linked to on the pages for each of their tiles, for example here https://intellijel.com/eurorack-modules/quadratt-1u/

Why did they call them 1U when they knew there was another format with the name? Why not something like, say, Intellitiles or Jellirows?

And on the flip side it'd be nice if PulpLogic/Synthrotek etc would bite the bullet and specify on their pages as well.

Instead we get to have threads like these because of the quite understandable confusion.

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exper
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Post by exper » Wed Aug 24, 2016 9:52 pm

dumbledog wrote:Why isn't that info on their page for their 4U cases? https://intellijel.com/4u-cases/

On linked to on the pages for each of their tiles, for example here https://intellijel.com/eurorack-modules/quadratt-1u/

Why did they call them 1U when they knew there was another format with the name? Why not something like, say, Intellitiles or Jellirows?

And on the flip side it'd be nice if PulpLogic/Synthrotek etc would bite the bullet and specify on their pages as well.

Instead we get to have threads like these because of the quite understandable confusion.
I hear you. At least stores like Control specify compatibility on the modules pages.

I guess for now add it to the myriad of other things to consider when selecting modules and cases from different manufacturers:

How many HP
How much power
How many rows
mA draw +/-
5v requirements?
Depth
voltage specs (+8v, +10v, +/-5v)
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FS/T: Goike Folding Case / Grayscale Panels
FS/T: Intellijel 1U Midi & Audio IO
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Post by pulplogic » Wed Aug 24, 2016 9:57 pm

dumbledog wrote: And on the flip side it'd be nice if PulpLogic/Synthrotek etc would bite the bullet and specify on their pages as well.

Instead we get to have threads like these because of the quite understandable confusion.
I agree and have added the disclaimer here:
http://pulplogic.com/1u_tiles

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Post by Val » Thu Aug 25, 2016 2:06 am

JoeJoeJoe wrote:If they aren't compatible, why is everything just listed as the same 1U everywhere like modulargrid and online shops?
agreed, discovered some times ago that not all 1u are the same

To me it's bit of non-sense, you have that 3u eurorack standard format, and then launching their own line of 1U to go with standard eurorack ? I don't understand, not a really good move from Intellijel ?

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Post by mskala » Thu Aug 25, 2016 2:17 am

Val wrote:To me it's bit of non-sense, you have that 3u eurorack standard format, and then launching their own line of 1U to go with standard eurorack ? I don't understand, not a really good move from Intellijel ?
Well, in fairness, Intellijel's tiles are 1U in exactly the same way standard Eurorack modules are 3U. If you built a module to be really 3U, that is three times 1.75 inches, it wouldn't fit in a Eurorack rack.

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1U tile formats

Post by chriscarter » Thu Aug 25, 2016 2:53 am

I recently got a Synthrotek mobile case with two standard Eurorack 3U rows and a 1U row. When I ordered it I had no idea there were two competing 1U formats. Most of the 1U tiles I wanted were Intellijel but Synthrotek use the wider rails. Luckily all my Intellijel 1U tiles do sit in the 1U section just fine, but they can only screw on to one of the rails. But they are tightly screwed in so are quite secure.

I also bought a Pulp Logic 1U ribbon controller, which fits the Synthrotek perfectly but as has been mentioned here (and very annoyingly for me) uses "tile tail" power connectors and not standard Eurorack power plugs. Of course I should have noticed this on their website before buying… more fool me. But it’s not going in the case as a result.

Another annoying non-standard issue I have is that the Synthrotek case uses 2.5mm nuts/screws in its rails rather than the other 99.9% of Eurorack I have that uses 3mm.

Moaning over…
I’m loving the Intellijel 1U tiles, really nice modules.

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Post by iirussell » Thu Aug 25, 2016 4:16 am

Val wrote:
JoeJoeJoe wrote:If they aren't compatible, why is everything just listed as the same 1U everywhere like modulargrid and online shops?
agreed, discovered some times ago that not all 1u are the same

To me it's bit of non-sense, you have that 3u eurorack standard format, and then launching their own line of 1U to go with standard eurorack ? I don't understand, not a really good move from Intellijel ?
Intellijel calculated their 1u the same way Doepfer did the 3u, so it does make sense. I'm not sure how pulp logic/synthrotek came up with their dimensions, as they don't even fit the doepfer style rails (which I thought was the standard rail).

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Post by timoka » Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:10 am

exper wrote:
dumbledog wrote:Why isn't that info on their page for their 4U cases? https://intellijel.com/4u-cases/

On linked to on the pages for each of their tiles, for example here https://intellijel.com/eurorack-modules/quadratt-1u/

Why did they call them 1U when they knew there was another format with the name? Why not something like, say, Intellitiles or Jellirows?

And on the flip side it'd be nice if PulpLogic/Synthrotek etc would bite the bullet and specify on their pages as well.

Instead we get to have threads like these because of the quite understandable confusion.
I hear you. At least stores like Control specify compatibility on the modules pages.

I guess for now add it to the myriad of other things to consider when selecting modules and cases from different manufacturers:

How many HP
How much power
How many rows
mA draw +/-
5v requirements?
Depth
voltage specs (+8v, +10v, +/-5v)
exper, do you work for intellijel?

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Post by Joe. » Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:35 am

timoka wrote:exper, do you work for intellijel?
You know intellijel is in Canada right?

:hihi:

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Post by timoka » Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:45 am

LoFi Junglist wrote:
timoka wrote:exper, do you work for intellijel?
You know intellijel is in Canada right?

:hihi:
no i don't, why should i ?
it's possible to work for someone and not live at the same place right?
and by work i mean being a spokesman or representative.
i just want to know, that's all, not making a fuss.

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Post by exper » Thu Aug 25, 2016 7:09 am

@timoka no, I don't. :)

I'm definitely a fan of their modules and aesthetics though. Same can be said for Mutable, etc.
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Post by euromorcego » Thu Aug 25, 2016 7:22 am

iirussell wrote:
Val wrote: [...]

To me it's bit of non-sense, you have that 3u eurorack standard format, and then launching their own line of 1U to go with standard eurorack ? I don't understand, not a really good move from Intellijel ?
Intellijel calculated their 1u the same way Doepfer did the 3u, so it does make sense. I'm not sure how pulp logic/synthrotek came up with their dimensions, as they don't even fit the doepfer style rails (which I thought was the standard rail).
this was discussed at length, also here on the forum. Pulplogic tiles are also 1U but they use different rails, without lip, so the whole thing is about 1.2mm smaller on both sides: userpix/6763_rail_1.jpg
Not a big difference (2-3mm or so) but sufficient to make them incompatible (Intellijel uses rails with the lip, to make the whole thing fit exactly into 1U they need to be closer together. Pulplogic tiles also work with doepfer rails (if you make a custom case), but then the total height (modules plus rails) is a bit more than 1U.

It would be no problem to have alternative faceplates for Intellijel tiles to fit into existing Pulplogic-style 1U cases. Vice versa is not possible, as the pcbs are too large.

I think it is not always clearly communicated because the market for tiles is small, a niche within a niche, and the original tiles were often diy.

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Post by bc3 » Thu Aug 25, 2016 7:25 am

This 1U debate has already been discussed in some length if you search on the forum, just sayin' :roll:

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Post by DonaldCrunk » Thu Aug 25, 2016 9:46 am

exper yells at me when i chime in on these threads, but i just want to briefly stick my head in to say that this situation still sucks and is totally stupid.

i know that both Pulp and Erthenvar have been eating a lot of returns because of this - i'm sure the others are too. it's honestly one of those calculated business decisions that IJ sometimes makes, but now it's gone beyond just damaging the competition and normal ass people are losing their $$$.


it's most shameful that many manufacturers of Tiles have to have disclaimers about their products not fitting IJ cases, but IJ himself has no mention of the pre-existing format or any compatibility issues. And i'm sure he'll never add that, because BIZNESS

hi exper 8-)

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Post by TheRosskonian » Thu Aug 25, 2016 9:54 am

Has anyone had any luck shaving down the bigger 1U tiles to fit in an Intelllijel case? I've been pretty happy with the offerings of 1U tiles from Intellijel, but there's a few passive 1U tiles I'd like to try out.

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Post by exper » Thu Aug 25, 2016 9:59 am

DonaldCrunk wrote:exper yells at me when i chime in on these threads, but i just want to briefly stick my head in to say that this situation still sucks and is totally stupid.

i know that both Pulp and Erthenvar have been eating a lot of returns because of this - i'm sure the others are too. it's honestly one of those calculated business decisions that IJ sometimes makes, but now it's gone beyond just damaging the competition and normal ass people are losing their $$$.


it's most shameful that many manufacturers of Tiles have to have disclaimers about their products not fitting IJ cases, but IJ himself has no mention of the pre-existing format or any compatibility issues. And i'm sure he'll never add that, because BIZNESS

hi exper 8-)

Hey 'Crunk! :)

It's more of a difference of opinion. You think it's a shady, monopoly thing (which is negated by Intellijel providing measurements for anyone to make), while I stick with the whole rails/1u proper measurement thing.

If you stacked 3 Intellijel 1u tiles if would fit into a regular euro row. THe erthenvar ones need to be rotated to fit.
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Post by dumbledog » Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:24 am

I just think they should've called them something else. Stuff like this is what is theoretically addressed with patents and trademarks and I'm pretty sure none of us want to go down that route.

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Post by exper » Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:31 am

dumbledog wrote:I just think they should've called them something else. Stuff like this is what is theoretically addressed with patents and trademarks and I'm pretty sure none of us want to go down that route.

If you look, they actually are. All of the previous 1u are called tiles. Intellijel calls theirs modules. And for the most part, they are larger in width and function. Most tiles are very simple in design.
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Post by mskala » Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:32 am

exper wrote:If you stacked 3 Intellijel 1u tiles if would fit into a regular euro row.
Is that really true? Eurorack height is 3U minus rails. I thought the Intellijel tiles were 1U minus rails, so that three of them would be less than Eurorack height by twice the rail allowance. The Erthenvar size is exactly 1U, so three of those would be too high for a Eurorack row but the same height as 3U of general rack equipment.

Part of the problem is that although we think of modules as a standard height and variable width, the rack standard they descend from is standard width (19" between mounting holes) and variable height.

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