MI Rings Vs Elements

Abston · Post by **Abston** » Sun Sep 04, 2016 6:18 pm

Hello

I've just got a Mutable Instruments Elements modules for my rack. I also wanted to buy a Rings, but the Elements sounds a bit like the Rings.

The question is do you think it makes sense to have an Elements and a Rings, or the Elements is enough ?

Thanks !

asteraster · Post by **asteraster** » Sun Sep 04, 2016 6:43 pm

Elements and Rings sound great together - guess it depends if you want more physical modelling/string stuff or if you want some different kind of sound sources in your system.

StevelandCleaner · Post by **StevelandCleaner** » Mon Sep 05, 2016 5:05 am

Elements is an exciter & a resonator and Rings is just the resonator, it has 2 extra synthesis models included and polyphony. They pair up incredibly well together.

trip · Post by **trip** » Mon Sep 05, 2016 5:15 am

Yes, if you like the kinds of sounds elements makes it's definitely worth getting a Rings - it's an incredible module. Worth it for the Easter Egg mode alone

baleen · Post by **baleen** » Mon Sep 05, 2016 7:17 am

I think it makes sense to have both (if you like their sound) - they respond to input in very different ways, and their differences will show in relief when you pair them up. a great pair for crazy percussion sounds too.

Dogma · Post by **Dogma** » Mon Sep 05, 2016 7:45 am

Both without doubt....

DonKartofflo · Post by **DonKartofflo** » Mon Sep 05, 2016 11:04 am

Is it worth having two different low pass filters?

They are very different beasts, i personally tend to use elements for more elaborate and complicated sounds, mostly percussion, while rings is used more for processing external signals or for chord/pad sounds

MATSmile · Post by **MATSmile** » Mon Sep 05, 2016 12:58 pm

I would recommend starting from Elements and in case you like it going further from there.

r05c03 · Post by **r05c03** » Wed Sep 07, 2016 12:12 pm

I will jump into this thread rather than starting my own. I have Elementsbut not Rings. Space being finite (Synthrotek 104 HP, 7U case) I am wondering if I should trade the Elements for Rings. It seems like, from the demos I have watched and listened to that Rings and Elements can sound very similar. What advantages does Elements have over Rings from the standpoint sound creation and processing that make up for the extra HP, e.g. greater sound palette, the reverb, better sound non-string sounds?

mheumann · Post by **mheumann** » Wed Sep 07, 2016 1:45 pm

I sold my Elements and got a Rings because Rings contains my favorite features of the Elements but takes up way less space. I'm guessing that's precisely why Mutable developed the Rings.

MATSmile · Post by **MATSmile** » Wed Sep 07, 2016 3:01 pm

r05c03 wrote:I will jump into this thread rather than starting my own. I have Elementsbut not Rings. Space being finite (Synthrotek 104 HP, 7U case) I am wondering if I should trade the Elements for Rings. It seems like, from the demos I have watched and listened to that Rings and Elements can sound very similar. What advantages does Elements have over Rings from the standpoint sound creation and processing that make up for the extra HP, e.g. greater sound palette, the reverb, better sound non-string sounds?

As stated above Elements is a modal voice (exciter & resonator) and Rings is just a resonator. With Elements you can do many thing that Rings does (except ASR), but not vise versa.

Xtheunknown · Post by **Xtheunknown** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 6:08 am

Can Elements accept external exciters? I also thought I read that Elements has a higher internal FM sampling rate. Can anyone confirm?

richc90 · Post by **richc90** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 6:23 am

Yes Elements can accept and process external signals in one of two ways: either by sending the external input into the blow signal path and then onto the resonator using the first external input, or by sending the external input directly to the resonator using the second external input.

cyclopeatron · Post by **cyclopeatron** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 6:47 am

I don't have either, but Rings looks like it wins in the usefulness to size ratio contest.

guestt · Post by **guestt** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 7:54 am

I had both, but Rings left and I replaced it with another Elements - a vastly superior module in many ways imho

If you have the space two Elements is a total blast!!

I wanted this from the beginning, I was under the impression that Rings was the resonator part of Elements and I thought great - I can double up my sound source and do some very interesting things -- while this is technically true, trying to get the exact same noises out of Rings as Elements (I have my reasons!!) is extremely challenging a lot of the time, I simply couldn't get them to play well together that way most of the time and forget trying to meaningfully modulate both sources in a point / counterpoint / resolve progression that comes back to the original sound. I consider myself to be competent, but I just couldn't make it work for my purposes, close... but no cigar!

There is no doubt that Rings is an excellent partner to Elements, but they do behave very differently which if that is what you want - awesome!!

Edit: Also don't forget that with Elements you get:

A very versatile Envelope
A three channel Mixer
Three Sound Sources
Five Attenuverters
Accent input
FM input < this is the key to really unlocking the magic of Elements - 100% essential!!

FadingCanvas · Post by **FadingCanvas** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:53 am

Baddcr wrote: FM input < this is the key to really unlocking the magic of Elements - 100% essential!!

this is why I read all those forums, I need to try some more of that FM, might end up in another interesting wiggling session.

brandonlogic · Post by **brandonlogic** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:11 am

Baddcr wrote:I had both, but Rings left and I replaced it with another Elements - a vastly superior module in many ways imho

interesting, I had both too and elements left. elements has more features but im very happy with rings. Polyphony is something that rings has that elements dosent, and thats huge to me. a four note polyphony voice in that amount of hp is excellent. makes beautiful overlapping note sequences. Elements was awesome but i didn't like it enough for the hp it took up. totally happy with rings over elements over here.

Hovercraft · Post by **Hovercraft** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:27 am

I had both, but recently sold Elements, due to the size. I consider them different modules with unique voices. Although there's some overlap it's worth having both if you have the money and space.

guestt · Post by **guestt** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:28 am

It's a good job we're all different hey brandonlogic

Isn't the 'ringified' Elements firmware update the same as the chords feature in Rings? That was my understanding of it anyway, maybe it is different somehow?

starthief · Post by **starthief** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:25 pm

Baddcr wrote:Isn't the 'ringified' Elements firmware update the same as the chords feature in Rings? That was my understanding of it anyway, maybe it is different somehow?

Elements originally had just the modal synthesis mode (with bandpass filters), plus the different exciters and reverb.

The firmware update added modes similar to the sympathetic and inharmonic strings from Rings -- but still with bandpass rather than comb filters, so it's not exactly alike.

Sympathetic strings modes can be tuned (with Geometry/Structure) to play different chord relationships but on Elements it's still monophonic, where Rings can split the filters per voice and have 2, 3, or 4 voices (each of which can be these chords).

guestt · Post by **guestt** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:30 pm

starthief wrote:
Baddcr wrote:Isn't the 'ringified' Elements firmware update the same as the chords feature in Rings? That was my understanding of it anyway, maybe it is different somehow?
Elements originally had just the modal synthesis mode (with bandpass filters), plus the different exciters and reverb.

The firmware update added modes similar to the sympathetic and inharmonic strings from Rings -- but still with bandpass rather than comb filters, so it's not exactly alike.

Sympathetic strings modes can be tuned (with Geometry/Structure) to play different chord relationships but on Elements it's still monophonic, where Rings can split the filters per voice and have 2, 3, or 4 voices (each of which can be these chords).

Great description thanks - really very well done!!! I am not sure I realised Rings was comb rather than band pass - thats interesting!!

Yes it's coming back to me, it was these chords I didn't like, well, 'didn't like' is a bit off, I mean only about half of them actually got used and I found it frustrating switching between them, especially manually via a knob turn, argh all those ones in-between the two or three I wanted!!!

I have an 4MS SMR now and find this much more suitable for my chord needs, and of course far more flexible. It is almost twice the cost of Rings though and also band pass s still not the same thing!

** please note I am not criticising or being mean, it is what it is and I love MI stuff **

starthief · Post by **starthief** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:39 pm

Modal mode on Rings is bandpass, the strings are comb.

I don't use sympathetic strings mode in Rings much myself except when they're all tuned to octaves. Inharmonic, modal, FM, and Disastrous Peace are all great though

guestt · Post by **guestt** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:41 pm

Cor I feel like I am getting a proper education hehe!!

Thank you once again!!

Yep, Rings is full of awesomeness and it may well end up in my rack again one day, I actually have a DIY one to build so it's inevitable at some point.

I hope this discussion has been as helpful to others as it has been to me - thank you again!!

asteraster · Post by **asteraster** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 4:24 pm

Interesting, I don't know if I've ever FM'd Elements - need to play with that.
Also, I was way too addicted to the chord mode in Elements. Absolutely gorgeous. It's getting like that with sympathetic string mode in Rings, too. Forcing myself to explore the other modes more now.

I originally loved Elements for the incredible variety of percussive sounds and now I have a blast with Elements and two Rings programming natural sounding rhythms.

guestt · Post by **guestt** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 4:30 pm

asteraster wrote:Interesting, I don't know if I've ever FM'd Elements - need to play with that.

Oh my... Yes... please do!!!

I'll try and put it in perspective; after my initial excitement of getting Elements I sat down and really studied the panel design (I know Olivier doesn't do anything by accident) and thought which are the primary inputs to this thing?

The cluster of four over to the left - what are they?

CV / Gate / Accent / FM

My thought process followed the lines of, pitch, ok self explanatory... gates, oh nice it can do really long notes because it has a sustain section on one of the envelope modes (another absolute essential mode imho - just plug an offset into it and go!!) and accent, that's interesting, what does that do? And finally.... oh! It's FM - that's nice!! Let's play...

My appreciation went from 7/10 - i.e. I love this thing - to a full 10/10 this is the best synth I have ever owned!

Seriously I totally love both of mine - they are pure magic!! I would even consider a third if I had the space!

Edit: with the FM, less is often more - audio rate is cool as well, just use the attenuverter top right to tame the range it operates over - welcome to all win!!

MUFF WIGGLER

MUFF WIGGLER

MI Rings Vs Elements

MI Rings Vs Elements