MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index
 FAQ & Terms of UseFAQ & Terms Of Use   Wiggler RadioMW Radio   Muff Wiggler TwitterTwitter   Support the site @ PatreonPatreon 
 SearchSearch   RegisterSign up   Log inLog in 
WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Minimoog Model D vs reissue
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> General Gear Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next [all]
Author Minimoog Model D vs reissue
umma gumma
interesting: I just worked the aftertouch on my lowest key for a few mins, and now it feels just like the rest of the keybed

give that a shot?
mousegarden
umma gumma wrote:
interesting: I just worked the aftertouch on my lowest key for a few mins, and now it feels just like the rest of the keybed

give that a shot?


Thanks, I thought of that too, but I only did it a couple of times, I was frightened of damaging the keybed. I'll have another go, this time for a bit longer. It makes sense this fix, because, if the padding is bunched up, it could flatten it enough to make it feel right. I was also wondering if the padding has got bunched up at the bottom it could be from the synth being stood on its end for a long time, especially if the glue wasn't applied properly, or isn't strong enough??
mousegarden
OK, I've spent a few minutes pressing the jeys down to trigger the aftertouch, being very careful. It's improved, without a shadow of doubt, it's now at a point where the keys are "almost" identical in response to the normal ones, I doubt whether anyone would notice it if I didn't point it out.
I guess they may get even better with more use.

thumbs up
vav
The more you use that spongy lowest key, the better it feels, but then it ends up bunching up again. I didn't really see it as a problem, but since they had it for the dead VCO i had them look at it anyway, and they basically just reglued it. It's fine now. So i'm sure if everyone with the issue said "we want this fixed" they'd fix it.

As for my issue, once they charged my card that $90 they ended up shipping it to the wrong address after i'd confirmed the proper one, and i had to contact them to reroute the package. It showed up quickly and #312 is safely back home in area code 312, and it sounds incredible and i'm still madly in love with it.

I'm not mad or anything anymore, shit happens, capacitors go bad, etc. But i guess overall i'm fairly certain i'd think twice about buying a Moog product again.
mousegarden
vav wrote:
The more you use that spongy lowest key, the better it feels, but then it ends up bunching up again. I didn't really see it as a problem, but since they had it for the dead VCO i had them look at it anyway, and they basically just reglued it. It's fine now. So i'm sure if everyone with the issue said "we want this fixed" they'd fix it.

As for my issue, once they charged my card that $90 they ended up shipping it to the wrong address after i'd confirmed the proper one, and i had to contact them to reroute the package. It showed up quickly and #312 is safely back home in area code 312, and it sounds incredible and i'm still madly in love with it.

I'm not mad or anything anymore, shit happens, capacitors go bad, etc. But i guess overall i'm fairly certain i'd think twice about buying a Moog product again.


Yeah, I guess I'll send it back, it's just not on for a product like this, it's like taking delivery of a new Aston Martin and finding the electric seats don't work, but you've paid £300,000 for the privilege
umma gumma
I was looking around for a description of how the Fatar aftertouch works, and fixes ( I assume the D uses a Fatar bed? ) and found this fellow, who had to reglue his Prophet 12 aftertouch strip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_khCVIp8zM

long video, but interesting; he pulls it all apart. At the end he discovers that plastic doublesided tape is not the ideal adhesive.
calaveras
So I've tried out a few of my go to patches on the Mini re-issue at Main Drag and a couple guitar centers and B&H photo. I don't know what is different about it but I just can't get that David Kronenberg pulsating thing going on with the noise and LFO modulating the filter. Not sure if the noise is different, or the way that it mixes the LFO and the noise is different.
Other patches like my default kind of bass sounds and stuff work great though. And as I am so fond of saying, I think a lot of what we love about old synths is the old. That crackle in the knob is the mojo!
Maybe I should sell a dust infused compressed air can as instant synth mojo. Hmmmm.

I should have just stolen the Moog I had on loan 15 years ago. That thing was fucking perfect once I fixed the fuse holders. The owners son had cannibalized it for the fuse holders so he could put fuses on his car audio system. Yeah, he butchered a 70's Minimoog so he could bump Cypress Hill in his Glass House.
umma gumma
calaveras wrote:
So I've tried out a few of my go to patches on the Mini re-issue at Main Drag and a couple guitar centers and B&H photo. I don't know what is different about it but I just can't get that David Kronenberg pulsating thing going on with the noise and LFO modulating the filter. Not sure if the noise is different, or the way that it mixes the LFO and the noise is different.
Other patches like my default kind of bass sounds and stuff work great though. And as I am so fond of saying, I think a lot of what we love about old synths is the old. That crackle in the knob is the mojo!
Maybe I should sell a dust infused compressed air can as instant synth mojo. Hmmmm.


ah, there is a "noise level" adjustment pot inside the new D. I suspect the default noise level is set lower than some of the originals. Have not had time to mess with it though. I need to track down someone with an original, to compare etc
calaveras
The more I think about it. I feel like the noise on the OG Mini I used to have was more spiky. It wasn't just pink or white noise. It had more variability in level I think?
I can understand why they may not have sweated too much over getting the noise just right. Noise, randomness and such are more West coast school. On the godfather of subtractive synths it's more a tone source than a modulation for most folks.

I do have to give props to Moog for adding the aftertouch and velocity CV outs. That is pretty damn cool right there. Makes me wish they weren't doing a limited run of them, cuz my economics right now don't put me in the position to be purchasing any $4000 synths.
mousegarden
umma gumma wrote:
I was looking around for a description of how the Fatar aftertouch works, and fixes ( I assume the D uses a Fatar bed? ) and found this fellow, who had to reglue his Prophet 12 aftertouch strip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_khCVIp8zM

long video, but interesting; he pulls it all apart. At the end he discovers that plastic doublesided tape is not the ideal adhesive.


That's madness, I'm going to see how it goes, the dealer is standing by to give me a full refund if necessary, can't get fairer than that.
I'm thinking of getting a Minimod system if the worst comes to the worst.
estin
bummer it went this way. If you do end up sending it back I think it would be hard to go wrong with an AJH synth minimod set in a waldorf KB37 controller. Conversely, the WMD monolith would be awesome and you have enough free space to drop in a ladder filter of your choice ( AJH Synth) hihi
vav
umma gumma wrote:
calaveras wrote:
So I've tried out a few of my go to patches on the Mini re-issue at Main Drag and a couple guitar centers and B&H photo. I don't know what is different about it but I just can't get that David Kronenberg pulsating thing going on with the noise and LFO modulating the filter. Not sure if the noise is different, or the way that it mixes the LFO and the noise is different.
Other patches like my default kind of bass sounds and stuff work great though. And as I am so fond of saying, I think a lot of what we love about old synths is the old. That crackle in the knob is the mojo!
Maybe I should sell a dust infused compressed air can as instant synth mojo. Hmmmm.


ah, there is a "noise level" adjustment pot inside the new D. I suspect the default noise level is set lower than some of the originals. Have not had time to mess with it though. I need to track down someone with an original, to compare etc


I had no idea about that noise level adjustment.
calaveras
I looked up the manual and apparently there is white pink and red noise. When it's an audio source it's white or pink, when it's a mod source it's pink or red. That is interesting that it works that way. Wonder if that is a choice they made, or if that reflects how the OG Minimoog works?
I'm still wondering if there was some kind of out of production germanium transistor or something that comprised part of the old noise circuit.
CZ Rider
The Minimoog always had the three noise types of red, pink, and white. There were many revisions during the production run of original Minimoogs.
There was a noise source revision on the later Norlin era Minimoogs. I have both an earlier 40XX and a later 10,7XX Mini. The noise source on the older revision Mini is clearly louder. Not sure why they changed the circuit?

Here is the original noise schematic.



And the later revision noise source.



Both use a selected 2N3392 as the noise source, but there are differences in the resistors in the amplifier stage. Also the input resistor to the filter is 11K on the old and 12K on the newer revision. Guessing the reissue is constructed from the latest revision schematics.

The keyboard revisions on the reissue are nice with aftertouch and velocity. But they really missed the opportunity to take the Mini into new sonic territory by making it polyphonic. With three oscillators one could easily play chords via the digitally scanned keyboard ?
calaveras
I see that those are both pretty similar circuits, and it's not a hard to source transistor. I wonder what accounts for my perception that the noise is different?

I agree that it would have been cool to make the Mini paraphonic. But the target demo doesn't want an innovated Mini. They want a Mini like Bernie Worrell and Keith Emerson used.
mousegarden
calaveras wrote:
I agree that it would have been cool to make the Mini paraphonic. But the target demo doesn't want an innovated Mini. They want a Mini like Bernie Worrell and Keith Emerson used.


That's an interesting one, I wonder how many people bought these reissues to emulate their heroes? I like Emerson and Worrel, but I've no desire to play or sound like them, even though they were big influences on me, and so was the Moog.
I bought this Moog for a very simple reason, I need a nasty, dirty, "big" sound that's got a lot of depth and movement, and the Mini Moog is the best that I can think of in this department. It's going through a chain of guitar effects anyway, and the sound is just beautiful, change the filter or the modulation and tuning just a tiny bit and it produces massive changes in harmonics and tone. It just suits my style of noise based free-improv perfectly.
I also love the sound of 2 oscillators tuned to a fifth on a Moog, nothing sounds the same, a bit of filter modulation and detune and it's pure heaven, another reason I bought the Mini.
If I have to send it back I don't know what else could replace it. It's a tough one, but hopefully all will be OK.
etherline
So after a rough day at work I thought I would wind down by having a play on my Minimoog reissue. Mistake. Happily noodling away and all of a sudden one key simply stops making a sound. No physical fault that I can detect but this key just doesn't work. No CV output, no trigger, no velocity, no sound.

So I'm trying to work out my options. It's still less than a year since I bought it but the idea of shipping it doesn't appeal. I'll contact the retailer but I wondered if anyone has any ideas what the possible range of faults could be with the symptoms? I'd be surprised by debris in the contact pad as I always keep it covered when not using it. Could I have hit the key too hard and damaged something? Are there electronic faults that would affect a single key? Is this a common issue?
rowsbywoof
etherline wrote:
So after a rough day at work I thought I would wind down by having a play on my Minimoog reissue. Mistake. Happily noodling away and all of a sudden one key simply stops making a sound. No physical fault that I can detect but this key just doesn't work. No CV output, no trigger, no velocity, no sound.

So I'm trying to work out my options. It's still less than a year since I bought it but the idea of shipping it doesn't appeal. I'll contact the retailer but I wondered if anyone has any ideas what the possible range of faults could be with the symptoms? I'd be surprised by debris in the contact pad as I always keep it covered when not using it. Could I have hit the key too hard and damaged something? Are there electronic faults that would affect a single key? Is this a common issue?


It would be that key, not something with the synth. The Fatar keyboards use a small conductive spot that makes contact, and that likely failed or is dirty. It’s not a big deal to fix or replace, but you’d have to open up the Mini to do it and that would likely void your warranty. It seems crazy to say this, but this synth is too new to be even asking a forum for help with.

Email or call Moog. Tell them what’s up. They’ll get you sorted.
EPTC
CZ Rider wrote:
The Minimoog always had the three noise types of red, pink, and white. There were many revisions during the production run of original Minimoogs.
There was a noise source revision on the later Norlin era Minimoogs. I have both an earlier 40XX and a later 10,7XX Mini. The noise source on the older revision Mini is clearly louder. Not sure why they changed the circuit?

Here is the original noise schematic.



And the later revision noise source.



Both use a selected 2N3392 as the noise source, but there are differences in the resistors in the amplifier stage. Also the input resistor to the filter is 11K on the old and 12K on the newer revision. Guessing the reissue is constructed from the latest revision schematics.

The keyboard revisions on the reissue are nice with aftertouch and velocity. But they really missed the opportunity to take the Mini into new sonic territory by making it polyphonic. With three oscillators one could easily play chords via the digitally scanned keyboard ?


Great Post, CZ!

Easy access to the Red Noise out on the reissue is my single favorite part of the new Model D. It's a super chaotic very stormy Red, too - Makes other Red noise sources sound very restrained and even.

Sort of like having a cool thunderstorm on call if you want.

Curious if this is replicated in the Behringer D; can anyone take an insert cable out of the Mod Out to see if you get Red/Pink noise output on one of the Tip or Ring?
mor4sso
mousegarden wrote:
calaveras wrote:
I agree that it would have been cool to make the Mini paraphonic. But the target demo doesn't want an innovated Mini. They want a Mini like Bernie Worrell and Keith Emerson used.


That's an interesting one, I wonder how many people bought these reissues to emulate their heroes? I like Emerson and Worrel, but I've no desire to play or sound like them, even though they were big influences on me, and so was the Moog.
I bought this Moog for a very simple reason, I need a nasty, dirty, "big" sound that's got a lot of depth and movement, and the Mini Moog is the best that I can think of in this department. It's going through a chain of guitar effects anyway, and the sound is just beautiful, change the filter or the modulation and tuning just a tiny bit and it produces massive changes in harmonics and tone. It just suits my style of noise based free-improv perfectly.
I also love the sound of 2 oscillators tuned to a fifth on a Moog, nothing sounds the same, a bit of filter modulation and detune and it's pure heaven, another reason I bought the Mini.
If I have to send it back I don't know what else could replace it. It's a tough one, but hopefully all will be OK.


agreed. its a monster, and its really fast and easy to use. very fun to play and nothing touches it on bass.

vintage model ds are badass too, but I love my reissue smile i have a bond with it w00t
mousegarden
mor4sso wrote:
mousegarden wrote:
calaveras wrote:
I agree that it would have been cool to make the Mini paraphonic. But the target demo doesn't want an innovated Mini. They want a Mini like Bernie Worrell and Keith Emerson used.


That's an interesting one, I wonder how many people bought these reissues to emulate their heroes? I like Emerson and Worrel, but I've no desire to play or sound like them, even though they were big influences on me, and so was the Moog.
I bought this Moog for a very simple reason, I need a nasty, dirty, "big" sound that's got a lot of depth and movement, and the Mini Moog is the best that I can think of in this department. It's going through a chain of guitar effects anyway, and the sound is just beautiful, change the filter or the modulation and tuning just a tiny bit and it produces massive changes in harmonics and tone. It just suits my style of noise based free-improv perfectly.
I also love the sound of 2 oscillators tuned to a fifth on a Moog, nothing sounds the same, a bit of filter modulation and detune and it's pure heaven, another reason I bought the Mini.
If I have to send it back I don't know what else could replace it. It's a tough one, but hopefully all will be OK.


agreed. its a monster, and its really fast and easy to use. very fun to play and nothing touches it on bass.

vintage model ds are badass too, but I love my reissue smile i have a bond with it w00t


I had an urge to sell mine recently, nothing to do with the Moog, just a bad mood.
It looks good when I walk in the room, it's like a bit of furniture that's been in the family for years, it's comforting too. So it's probably going to stay for the duration.
However, that stodgy bottom key has returned, I'm not sure what to do about that, it's not a big problem, just slightly irritating.
umma gumma
I emailed Moog asking about that bottom key & they sent instructions to reglue the sensor strip. I said I wasn't willing to ship it back, just for that!
codemode
umma gumma wrote:
I emailed Moog asking about that bottom key & they sent instructions to reglue the sensor strip. I said I wasn't willing to ship it back, just for that!
they sent to me as well, they always get right back to me within one day. The overlay on the left-hand panel also started to curl up and get sorta bubbly, not sure if this is common, they sent a replacement immediately and only charge for shipping.
...and just for the record as another well-versed minimoog user they nailed it, it's an amazing instrument. It's like having an old Moog from a time machine. One thing that sorta surprised me was they used an exterrnal SMPS! Sacrilege! However, the sound/tone is 100% there so they did a good job... make it's more efficient, cheaper to manufacture, and keeps some heat outside of the synth.
mor4sso
The external power supply is a smart decision imo, It's easily replaceable. w00t
codemode
mor4sso wrote:
The external power supply is a smart decision imo, It's easily replaceable. w00t
It's not that it's external that bothered me. I wouldn't mind a brick with a huge transformer in it, was just surprised they used a switching power supply. There are efficiency standards in EU and elsewhere for external PSU's for consumer and pro audio devices that must be met to sell into those markets. It's also a cheaper UL/CSA test with the external supply (low volume instrument it would suck suck to spend the whole $$30k+ for agency tests). However, as critical as I am the tone is identical so they executed very well.
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> General Gear Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next [all]
Page 6 of 7
Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group