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µTune - Micro Tonal midi cv converter, quantizer, editor
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Modular Synth General Discussion Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 12, 13, 14, 15  Next [all]
Author µTune - Micro Tonal midi cv converter, quantizer, editor
tubbutec
Video now online:

tubbutec
kindredlost
A good review and even better example of use of the module in context.
sizone
which reminded me that the utune is a pretty accurate frequency counter. which obviated an immediate need for me to buy a frequency counter.
monads
tubbutec wrote:

We are doing our best to meet our goal of finishing the expanders this spring.


Any latest update news on the expanders???
six_minds
another bump for the same question???
tubbutec
No. Still working on the expanders, writing code and making sure everything works smoothly. Hardware will go into production as soon as prototype is completely running and all tests ok.
Yes, takes longer than anticipated. Sorry.
williamjturkel
I'm excited for the expanders, but really enjoying my uTune in the meantime!
monads
Thanks for the update and understandable!!! Best to do it right!!!
sizone
semi spurious request, but if you could run off a few expanders with a panel width of 36.2 mm, it would make mounting a utune and an expander into a frac case much easier.
tubbutec
sizone wrote:
semi spurious request, but if you could run off a few expanders with a panel width of 36.2 mm, it would make mounting a utune and an expander into a frac case much easier.


Panels are already produced... I guess you'll have to make one yourself - we can provide design files. Or use a blind ..
monads
Bump for the expanders! Mr. Green
pelang
anyone knows how the save the last settings/scale?
Or a good workaround?
sizone
create a directory and put the tunings you use in it. makes loading the last one you were using a lot faster.
Sherbrick
I'm really excited this exists, and am planning to start a modular because of it!

The design is extremely well thought out, which is refreshing after running in to a number of products out there that "support" microtuning, but do it in a pretty clumsy and limiting way. This promises to throw the doors wide open...
monads
Expanders got to be getting closer to release? Mr. Green we're not worthy
bravedog
Returning to this thread after my last posts in November when I gave up on the unit till the manual was finished and some decent tutorial videos were up I find neither of these ever happened. PLEASE finish the manual. Even though this unit's possibilities are exciting, it is NOT a good unit to work out what is happening by playing with, since one can't just tweak knobs as in some modules but need to input midi signals constantly and even then changes may be subtle and unclear. Though apparently some users are succeeding this way, it's like reverse engineering. Lack of adequate documentation has stopped me from using the unit, which again, is the least intuitive and most poorly documented of my 40 modules. So frustrating that the wonderful possibilities of this module are stymied by the peculiar indifference to adequate documentation.

PLEASE finish the manual. The unit has been out almost a year. Decent tutorial videos would also be very helpful.
tubbutec
bravedog wrote:
Returning to this thread after my last posts in November when I gave up on the unit till the manual was finished and some decent tutorial videos were up I find neither of these ever happened. PLEASE finish the manual. Even though this unit's possibilities are exciting, it is NOT a good unit to work out what is happening by playing with, since one can't just tweak knobs as in some modules but need to input midi signals constantly and even then changes may be subtle and unclear. Though apparently some users are succeeding this way, it's like reverse engineering. Lack of adequate documentation has stopped me from using the unit, which again, is the least intuitive and most poorly documented of my 40 modules. So frustrating that the wonderful possibilities of this module are stymied by the peculiar indifference to adequate documentation.

PLEASE finish the manual. The unit has been out almost a year. Decent tutorial videos would also be very helpful.


Hi,
the main reason the manual is still in 'unfinished ' state, is that we are still adding features. So far the manual documents all features that are currently in the µTune.
If certain parts of the manuals are unclear, or if you have the impression a particular part is missing, please let me know, I will update it.
I would love to have some video tutorials as well, and trust me it's planned. So far there was just no time to film them, as we are working on firmware updates, expanders and more
Phil999
bravedog wrote:
Even though this unit's possibilities are exciting, it is NOT a good unit to work out what is happening by playing with, since one can't just tweak knobs as in some modules but need to input midi signals constantly and even then changes may be subtle and unclear.

true, if one uses certain 12-tone scales, changes to the usual 12-tone equal division can be very subtle. To hear a more abrupt change, one could try a scale with other divisions, for example 19. Or a 12-tone bagpipe scale.

One can also input CV/gate signals, not only MIDI, in case you haven't tried this method yet.

In general, microtonality is not difficult per se, but for the Western trained ear it often needs some time to adapt. It can take years until one can fully profit from this fantastic uTune module.

Another thought: it may be a good idea to limit oneself to one or two microtonal scales in the beginning. Changing scales often, like preset patches of a softsynth, will likely lead to confusion.

Finally, I would say that the uTune module and manual is fine. It's not the tool, it's the lack of understanding of tonality which poses a problem, to be perfectly honest. At least for me this is the case, and I believe for many others too. For example, I haven't heard much modern microtonal music that makes sense, compositions that are truly musical. It's mostly experiments without much (or none) understanding of tonality.

I always recommend to listen to Wendy Carlos' "Beauty In The Beast", although it is not entirely a modern composition because it mainly uses ancient traditional scales. But it's a fine piece of work, it's done with synthesisers, a technique most of us use. And, of course, it is recommended to listen to certain old music, preferrably played with ancient instruments. These listening experiences help largely to understand specific scales, and rhythms, which render own creations much more easy and natural.

And yes, videos ... I would love to record some, but here it's the same as with Tubbutec. Not enough time, too many other things around, especially during summer. But I hope to do one video, which I already promised, by the end of the year. A video with practical, and hopefully musical examples.
bravedog
Thanks for your replies.

I'm glad you are still working on new features and hope accepting .kbm modifications will be implemented.

The manual doesn't seem basically complete to me, missing Chapters 6 Input output conguration, 7 Scales, 9 Midi, 13 Tools - all these seem vital, though touched on in other chapters. Missing Ch 11, 12, 14 seem less urgent, but really also should be finished IMO.

No, the current problem isn't in my scale understanding. It is with the basic operation of the unit [beyond loading scales/quantizing CV in], your terminology, and interpretation of its screens. In my series of posts in November and December when I was trying to work systematically through the manual and posted many specific questions, you [Tubbutec] did respond to some. Actually you ignored my post in this thread but responded when I reposted starting a new thread in tubbutec forum https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=193282&highlight=

I see you updated the manual slightly and tried to address Notation questions not answered at that time which caused me to abandon use of the unit since. Here are my questions regarding Notation [p. 17 manual]:

1]"Decimal
Note numbers are displayed directly in decimal form starting at number 0."

You mean, cents? If in scale with octave, if root is 0, semitone is 100? I know this doesn't seem to be a decimal form, but otherwise I have no idea what you mean?

2]"Hex
Note numbers are displayed directly in hexadecimal form starting at number 0. Each digit can have
the values 0-9 and A-F
Examples: 3E, 07, 2A"

I think you mean 3E= note 62 of scale, 07=note 7, 2A=note 42 ?
Why is there no indication of octave or repetition interval?

3]"Quartertone
Similar to Semitone notation, but also features quartertone symbols | and ||| in additon to #.
Examples: C0, C|0, C#0, C|||0, D0"

In your example, are you showing incremental increase by quartertones? So C|||0 would = C#|0?

4] "Relative 1"

Apparently this is the Notation shown for Ch2 of your display screen cap p7 manual
"2 ->0:a
<-9:g "

So, does the above mean input ch2 is 0 octave first note, output is 9 octaves up 7th note in scale?

5] Leaving Notation, I understand your explanation of Transpose but still not really of Shift. In our earlier discussion, I posited a scale of Root=any 0=N1, N2= 0+410 cents, N3= 0+815 cents. You explained Shift as [here I quote a long bit of your explanation, I'll note when your quote is finished] "changing the root without changing the pitch.
So let's take your example, and I am assuming the repeating interval is once octave = 1200 cent
0
410
815
1200

In your example shifting down by one note would result in
0 = 410 - 410
405 = 815 - 410
790 = 1200 - 410
1200 "

[This concludes your previous explanation, now the new question in my voice:]In your example, you kept root=N1 the same, apparently deleted N2 value and replaced it by subtracting its interval from root N1-N2from N3 ,then continued and got new N3 by subtracting the interval N1-N2 from N4 [here the octave]. I have no idea how this algorithm is derived, or how it would be applied if shifting a 2nd time, etc. Maybe for some reason, Shift means keep the root and subtract the interval Root-2st note [N1-N2] from every other note including the octave? The whole thing remains very unclear.

6] In your screen cap manual p8, you say Hz input is at bottom for each channel. In the photo then, Ch1 input at 564.9 Hz = C0 or C of octave 0, also apparently a Notation for Ch1 ipnput? And Ch2 input at 441.6 Hz - 0|a or 1st note in octave 0?

But C of octave 0 I would interpret as the 1st note in octave 0, or the same as 0|a. This understanding is clearly wrong, since that would mean Ch1 and Ch2 inputs were the same, yet they show different Hz values. Thus, I clearly don't understand your explanation yet.

This takes me through p8 of the manual. Will continue if these are answered.
----------------------------
Phil999, thanks for your calm input, you seem throughout this thread someone who unlike me has been able to get a handle on this unit! As for microtonal music, if you don't know him you might google Sevish. Besides a lot of lovely music, he posts informative threads on technical aspects relevant to microtonal music and software; and actually nicely responded to a few questions! I like the most recent couple of his albums the best. ... In classical, Henry Partch has some interesting stuff, he was also a great builder of weird and unique instruments.
six_minds
yet another bump for the expanders?!?! Any news on this front??
am starting to get settled after of the summer pause, and will have huge use for these when they come in!
tubbutec
bravedog wrote:

1]"Decimal
Note numbers are displayed directly in decimal form starting at number 0."

You mean, cents? If in scale with octave, if root is 0, semitone is 100? I know this doesn't seem to be a decimal form, but otherwise I have no idea what you mean?


Not cents. Just the number of the note. Start counting at 0, next note 1, note after that 2 and so on.. No idea how I could explain this better, but I am not a native English speaker so maybe you can help out here.

bravedog wrote:

I think you mean 3E= note 62 of scale, 07=note 7, 2A=note 42 ?
Why is there no indication of octave or repetition interval?


Same numbers as the decimal ones, just in hex. There is no relation to the scale, so no repetition interval display.

bravedog wrote:

In your example, are you showing incremental increase by quartertones? So C|||0 would = C#|0?

Yes, like in this picture: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c6/Ives_quarter _tone_fundamental_chord.png/375px-Ives_quarter_tone_fundamental_chord. png


bravedog wrote:

Apparently this is the Notation shown for Ch2 of your display screen cap p7 manual
"2 ->0:a
<-9:g "

So, does the above mean input ch2 is 0 octave first note, output is 9 octaves up 7th note in scale?

Yes, assuming your scale is based on the octave


bravedog wrote:

...shift...

See how the pitch of the first note stays the same, but the intervals Shift? I'll write this again with the pitch difference (d) between the notes

0
d= 410
410
d = 405
815
d = 385
1200

Shift:
0
d = 405
405
d = 385
790
d = 410
1200

So as you can see there are the same intervals but shifted.

Let's shift again
0
d = 385
385
d = 410
795
d = 405
1200

This should make things clear, I hope. If you use shift on a minor 12TET scale, you can produce dorian, lydian, major,...


bravedog wrote:

6] In your screen cap manual p8, you say Hz input is at bottom for each channel. In the photo then, Ch1 input at 564.9 Hz = C0 or C of octave 0, also apparently a Notation for Ch1 ipnput? And Ch2 input at 441.6 Hz - 0|a or 1st note in octave 0?

But C of octave 0 I would interpret as the 1st note in octave 0, or the same as 0|a. This understanding is clearly wrong, since that would mean Ch1 and Ch2 inputs were the same, yet they show different Hz values. Thus, I clearly don't understand your explanation yet.


The frequency shown is not the frequency the notes should have, but the frequency measured (as the manual states). So if you change the pitch of the VCO (via detune know for example), the measured value will change.


bravedog wrote:
you might google Sevish. Besides a lot of lovely music, he posts informative threads on technical aspects relevant to microtonal music and software;

As you may have seen Sevish gave us permission to include his scale pack on the µTune's SD card.[/quote]

bravedog wrote:

Henry Partch has some interesting stuff, he was also a great builder of weird and unique instruments.

Have a look at the second half of this video for a performance in Parch 43
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uf_zMCUrqBA
tubbutec
six_minds wrote:
yet another bump for the expanders?!?! Any news on this front??
am starting to get settled after of the summer pause, and will have huge use for these when they come in!


Nearing production stage, but had some minor issues to fix. Sorry for the delay, but we wanted to make sure this is working properly.
bravedog
Thanks for your helpful replies! The only one still not 100% sure is my question above #6 - I understand the Hz shown is input, so different Hz may quantize to the same note, but in this example the two Hz appearing to quantize to the same note are very different, 564.9 Hz and 441.6 Hz. Of course this remains possible with a defined scale with large intervals - please confirm that is what must be happening in this case? If so, I now understand this as well. [The large interval of over 9 octaves shown in my question #4 above, far more than I imagined transpose in this unit might use, is similarly why I supposed I must be misunderstanding something]

In English 'decimal' form implies the use of not whole numbers, but at least one digit to the right of the decimal [accuracy to tenths or better]; your meaning is better conveyed by 'ordinal' numbers, meaning first second third etc. Perhaps it would be clearer to use terminology more like that you used in in your explanation to me here? ie:
"Ordinal [rather than current Decimal]
Note numbers are displayed directly in ordinal form starting at number 0, 1, 2...with no octave/repetition intervals indicated."

similarly
"Hex
Note numbers are displayed directly in ordinal form starting at number 0, 1, 2... as in Ordinal display above, but represented in hexadecimal form rather than base 10. Each digit can have
the values 0-9 and A-F. No octave/repetition intervals are indicated
Examples: 3E, 07, 2A"

Hope this helps

I do hope you still plan on implementing .kbm? I would use that feature.

Again, thanks for these replies, I'll continue now through the manual and post more questions!
zed888
tubbutec wrote:
Parch 43

Hi. I normally wouldn't need to use that many notes/octave, but in another thread you said the input resolution was 36 notes/octave, so wouldn't it be impossible to use the Partch system? Thanks.
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