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µTune - Micro Tonal midi cv converter, quantizer, editor
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Author µTune - Micro Tonal midi cv converter, quantizer, editor
tubbutec
Tubbutec µTune is a tool designed to serve all needs that may arise when dealing with microtonal scales in a modular context. But of course you can also use in a normal, not microtonal way.



Main features

Two channel microtonal Midi to CV/Gate interface with various voice assign modes
A two channel microtonal quantizer / mapper
Two channel CV/Gate to midi conversion sends microtonal midi
A built in scale editor to conveniently edit, load and save scales from an SD card
Midi router/merger to route midi note and clock data independently between USB, DIN midi and µTune
Freely configurable inputs and outputs. Can detect if input is plugged in and change behaviour accordingly which makes the module extremely flexible
10 point VCO calibration to linearise VCO CV response
High precision 16 bit outputs, resolution about 0.15mV / 0.2cents with a voltage range of 10V
Built in two channel tuner with a wide pitch range
V/Hz mode with adjustable precission
Peripherals: 2x analogue in, 2x analogue out, 2x digital in, 2x digital out, Mini USB B device midi in/out, DIN midi in and out
Also features: Midi monitor, various alternative note notations, midi note on and off velocity mapping, adjustable midi base notes, transpose and shift scales via CV, pitch bend in, scale masks, and much more…
An extension module to add more channels is in developement
Designed and made in Germany
Comes with: SD card with pre-installed scales, USB Cable Mini B to type A, Eurorack power cable

More info: Tubbutec µTune



----------

The original post was basically asking if such a module would be needed - now it is here
oootini
sounds amazing!
StringEmil
Sounds really cool!
Stupid question: Would it be able to do non-microtonal stuff as well for more 'normal' use?
tubbutec
StringEmil wrote:
Sounds really cool!
Stupid question: Would it be able to do non-microtonal stuff as well for more 'normal' use?


of course. after all, well tempered tuning is just a sub-set of the whole micro tonal space wink
slow_riot
This was a feature I've been hoping to implement in my designs. For all the blue sky thinking of "West Coast" Don Buchla, Serge, Wiard, etc. None of them has left 12tET. (No, unquantized does not mean microtonal). I found a more "hacky" way to get non 12-tET intervals, as I don't have the talent/resources to do a full featured implementation with a PIC like this. But, all credit to you, this sounds *amazing* !

Practically, you should think about creating a PCB that was format independent (i.e. +/12 or +/-15V operation), multiple faceplates for euro/frac/5U etc. As personally I don't think that many modular users will be climbing over each other to use microtones.

Another thing worth thinking about is the (in)accuracy inherent in many VCOs, e.g. the 1% (or greater) losses through common 1k/100k output/input impedences, passive tempcos, and temperature variance in Zener diodes or OTAs in VCO cores. All of these may mean that some analogue designs are simply unsuitable for very intricate microtonal programming.
Mood Organ
Yes, and I'm not the only one.

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=160545
mmeixner
tubbutec wrote:


- High resolution microtonal midi2cv/gate interface, 10 octaves
- microtonal quantizer, CV in 1V/oct converted to any scale
- Upload scales via Scala or use scl. files directly from a SD card
- Includes a scale editor: Create your own custom scales without needing an external computer.



Sounds quite interesting!
mmelnick
Yes, please
krm
I've developed a MIDI-CV-Arpeggiator module that allows arbitrary microtonal scales (in addition to the standard 12TET).

The basic idea is that you individually tune each of the 'semitones' in the 5 octave range, and the module will interpolate between each of the notes using either a linear or exponential curve (you can choose which one).

Normally you would keep the module in 1v/oct or Hz/volt mode (12TET), but you can switch between the 'normal' tuning curves and the custom one via the front panel of the module.

http://www.krmmusicsystems.com

-Keith
Phil999
tubbutec wrote:

- High resolution microtonal midi2cv/gate interface, 10 octaves
- microtonal quantizer, CV in 1V/oct converted to any scale
- Upload scales via Scala or use scl. files directly from a SD card
- Includes a scale editor: Create your own custom scales without needing an external computer.

I'm very much interested in such a module.
tubbutec
Thanks a lot for your opinions and suggestions.

One further question: How many CV channels would you need? 1,2,4?
You could always chain multiple modules for more channels.
Obviously the price would increase the more channels are included..

thx
Phil999
for me, only one channel.
drehleierguy
sounds very interesting indeed! have a look at what Jeff Snyder is doing with his upcoming MantaMate module. it's focussed on the Manta, but will (i think) work as a usb host for all kinds of controllers and will have extensive microtonal functions.

he sent me some more details in a private message - i'll check to see if it's OK if i post here.

www.snyderphonics.com has very little info, but i think there's a bit more on his fb page.

please keep us in the loop!

cheers.
Mood Organ
tubbutec wrote:

One further question: How many CV channels would you need? 1,2,4?


I'd suggest 1 or at most 2 channels. I second the recommendation of making a format-agnostic design.
calaveras
since my brain thinks in intervals, not chords, I'm most interested in a 2 channel device.
I certainly hear the skepticism regarding OSC accuracy.
But I'd love to find out for myself how 'bad' my oscs are.

It'd be nice if such a module came with a few default scales to start off.
Say TTET, Just, Pythagorean etc just as plain vanilla benchmarks and maybe a few non-twelve tone scales to give entry into microtonalism.
I'm thinking if they were based on Harry Partch or Wendy Carlos' work that could help generate interest.
Mood Organ
Re-reading the original post reminded me that the module has its own scale editing built in. I'm curious how that will be implemented. If the module is big or complex enough (in terms of buttons and screen), it might be worth thinking about more than 2 channels of output.

Alternatively, I can imagine a simple version that just reads Scala files from SD card and does 1 or perhaps 2 channels of CV.
slow_riot
calaveras wrote:

I'm thinking if they were based on Harry Partch or Wendy Carlos' work that could help generate interest.


Partch and Carlos are the biggest nutters out there for tuning! They developed their own tuning systems after lifetimes of research, and anything short of mastery is not enough to find the beauty in the beast.

e.g.

http://www.wendycarlos.com/resources/pitch.html

But, I agree with the sentiment. A good bank would be a necessity for those of us just getting started. Although, putting in some presets will be by far the easiest task in the design process. Again to the OP, congrats! I've been waiting for something like this for a long time.
calaveras
slow_riot wrote:
calaveras wrote:

I'm thinking if they were based on Harry Partch or Wendy Carlos' work that could help generate interest.


Partch and Carlos are the biggest nutters out there for tuning! They developed their own tuning systems after lifetimes of research, and anything short of mastery is not enough to find the beauty in the beast.

e.g.

http://www.wendycarlos.com/resources/pitch.html

But, I agree with the sentiment. A good bank would be a necessity for those of us just getting started. Although, putting in some presets will be by far the easiest task in the design process. Again to the OP, congrats! I've been waiting for something like this for a long time.

Of course they were, but for a lot of folks that are just getting into alternate tuning/microtonic scales those are recognizable names.
I was actually going to go look up something more reasonable, like a Balinese metalophone microtonal scale, or something from the East Indian quarter tone musical tradition. But in modular circles Partch and Carlos probably have more name recognition.
Besides, there are thousands of East Indian quarter tone scales, and the same I believe can be said for gamelans, with scales being similar, but differing from village to village. So again you might end up with dozens or hundreds of scales just to be definitive.
Those two could probably be micro SD cards unto themselves!
I gotta say after experimenting with some look up tables I calculated and a voltmeter, nah I'm all for a quantizer that does the heavy lifting.
tubbutec
Hi!

thank you all!

Now working on this module, it will have two channels and be chainable to add more channels if needed.

Quote:
Re-reading the original post reminded me that the module has its own scale editing built in. I'm curious how that will be implemented.


There will be a small screen, a rotary encoder and button.

At the moment, there is only a very rough sketch of how it will look like, but will keep you updated as I am developing..
Phil999
great! I think two channels are a wise decision so we can - as calaveras pointed out - have instant intervals.

I look forward for next year to have a good tuning solution in a module. The other approaches with MIDI/pitchbend or VCO sync are too limiting.
calaveras
Cool!
I realy do think this is a piece of the modular puzzle that has been missing.
Down with TTET! you kids get off my lawn
loydb
Also interested.
tubbutec
calaveras wrote:
Cool!
Down with TTET! you kids get off my lawn


lol lol
Liddlepud
Erv Wilson please
Phil999
with the Scala application and this future module you should theoretically be able to have any tuning you want with as many notes per octave you want.

For those who don't know, there's an app for iOS called 'Wilsonic'.
GGW
I'm looking forward to what you come up with. One channel would be fine but two will be interesting.
For myself, I just want to be able to offset the notes of the standard 12tet octave. It should be able to do this, separate from requiring scala files. Unless I'm really missing something, scala is based on the starting root note still being "C" of 12tet tuning and the other notes being offset from there. To change that root, the tuning needs to be offset and the other notes recalculated to bring them back to their original value.
tubbutec
GGW wrote:
I'm looking forward to what you come up with. One channel would be fine but two will be interesting.
For myself, I just want to be able to offset the notes of the standard 12tet octave. It should be able to do this, separate from requiring scala files. Unless I'm really missing something, scala is based on the starting root note still being "C" of 12tet tuning and the other notes being offset from there. To change that root, the tuning needs to be offset and the other notes recalculated to bring them back to their original value.


Hi if I understand you correctly, you are describing a 'transpose' feature, which will be implemented, but can also be realized with a simple adder.

Scala can do this too, you can choose a different base note when uploading.

Scala describes scales based on the distance to 'C', but it is really just a notation, not a limitation in functionality.

The finished product will be able to map an input note (via midi or CV) to any output voltage. the don't even have to be in ascending order...
Liddlepud
Can we have 2 channels please.
tubbutec
Liddlepud wrote:
Can we have 2 channels please.


tubbutec wrote:
Now working on this module, it will have two channels and be chainable to add more channels if needed.
Liddlepud
tubbutec wrote:
Liddlepud wrote:
Can we have 2 channels please.


tubbutec wrote:
Now working on this module, it will have two channels and be chainable to add more channels if needed.


Excellent, I thought it would be greedy to ask for 4 channels but chainable sounds like a good compromise.
Villarceau
would be awesome
Arders Bergdahl
I would be very exited if the module would support scales that are not built on octaves.. Like Bohlen- pierce
Also look at the great app Scalegen if you can support all type of scales that Scalegen can support you are quite complete.. It would entail mapping EVERY note to a cv ... Probably
tubbutec
Arders Bergdahl wrote:
I would be very exited if the module would support scales that are not built on octaves.. Like Bohlen- pierce
Also look at the great app Scalegen if you can support all type of scales that Scalegen can support you are quite complete.. It would entail mapping EVERY note to a cv ... Probably


thanks for the suggestion, will have a look at it.
tubbutec
CAD work for 3HE version finished, PCB is at 30%. This is roughly how it will look like:

[/img]
sopresada
yeah seriously, seriously interested in this.

+1 for banana format please!
Phil999
looks good. So it is also a two-channel MIDI-CV converter. With USB and DIN MIDI. Very versatile and useful.

I think this module could also attract musicians and composers who aren't that much into electronic music yet.
microtonal
Here are some microtonal quantizer suggestions I posted on another recent thread. It seems your device will have most of these features.

An important distinction for CV based quantizing over MIDI is the ability to support more than 128 notes per scale. So if the range is 10V, and the scale is 31 notes, then 311 notes should be quantized in that range.

Microtonal Quantizer desirable features:
* SD card interface to load scala scales while having them resident on the modular
* Text or graphic display to display file names, scale, note and tuning details
* High resolution true 14-16 bit DAC, not an audio DAC
* 1 cent or better accuracy
* >50 notes per tuning scale
* User settable tuning repeat for non-octave scales (the last two features enable modular to break the 128 note MIDI limit)
* Integrated transposition to adjust VCO/VCF ratios with the quantized scale
* Real time transposition and tuning selection
tubbutec
yes, pretty much all these features (and some more) are either planned or already implemented smile

About the 'more than 128 notes topic'

When playing over midi, it will be possible to transpose (for example using the CV IN)

It will also be possible to set the number of notes/volt at the CV in, so lot more that 128 notes are possible.

accuracy is about 0.2cents
Mood Organ
tubbutec wrote:
CAD work for 3HE version finished, PCB is at 30%. This is roughly how it will look like:

[/img]


Do you need gate in AND gate out? You only use 1 at a time, right? Could be 1 jack and a switch?
Mood Organ
sopresada wrote:
yeah seriously, seriously interested in this.

+1 for banana format please!


+2!
Phil999
Mood Organ wrote:

Do you need gate in AND gate out? You only use 1 at a time, right? Could be 1 jack and a switch?

I think both are needed at the same time. You go in with one or two standard CV-gate pairs and out comes the re-tuned CV-gate pairs, so you can use it without USB or MIDI at all.
Mood Organ
Phil999 wrote:
Mood Organ wrote:

Do you need gate in AND gate out? You only use 1 at a time, right? Could be 1 jack and a switch?

I think both are needed at the same time. You go in with one or two standard CV-gate pairs and out comes the re-tuned CV-gate pairs, so you can use it without USB or MIDI at all.


Why would the gate out be different than the gate in?

http://www.modcan.com/amodules/quantizer.html

2 modes:
* gate in (gate tells the quantizer when to sample the CV in)
* gate out (quantizer is always sampling CV in; fire a gate when CV moves from one quantized value to another)
tubbutec
Hi, the gate in can be used for the following functions:

- sampling gate
- sampling trigger
- potentially some other functions, such as randomly trigger a note etc...

the gate output:

- gate from midi cv / gate
- output midi clock with adjustable divider
- ....

additionally both gate in and cv can detect if a jack is plugged in. This is used to switch between the various modes.

if for example nothing is plugged into 'gate in', the quantizer is put into continuous mode. if nothing is plugged into cv in, the module will default to midi in.. and so on. The behaviour is of course configurable.

so
A: it makes sense to use both at the same time
B: it is much more convenient to have dedicated sockets
C: a switch takes as much space, if not more on the panel
microtonal
tubbutec wrote:
yes, pretty much all these features (and some more) are either planned or already implemented smile

About the 'more than 128 notes topic'

When playing over midi, it will be possible to transpose (for example using the CV IN)

It will also be possible to set the number of notes/volt at the CV in, so lot more that 128 notes are possible.

accuracy is about 0.2cents


That is great news! Thanks for working on this.
Phil999
Mood Organ wrote:

Why would the gate out be different than the gate in?

of course. Sorry about that, my brain wasn't switched on.

To tubbutec: nice options. Really looking forward for this module.

I think this and the ES-8 are the only modules left I really need.
tubbutec
Little update: Prototype PCBs are ordered, software development can begin. This will certainly be the largest part of this project given all the features.
Timmy
This sounds like a great module which should satisfy all microtonal needs.

Just for the sake of completeness, it is worth mentioning that the Mutable Instruments Yarns MIDI-to-CV module supports microtonal tunings and Scala scale files transmitted to it over MIDI, and even provides an online Scala editor - see "Tuning systems" at http://mutable-instruments.net/modules/yarns/manual

Of course, Yarns is only MIDI-to-CV, it doesn't do quantisation, but it is very accurate (16-bit DAC, better than 1mV resolution). It's also open-source so the firmware can be modified, and the hardware design adapted to other, non-eurorack formats if required.

There's also Ornament & Crime (disclaimer: I am a co-developer of the firmware for it), which offers, amongst other things, a 4 channel quantiser mode which supports microtonal tunings - both built-in scales/tunings and 4 user-editable scales with up to 16 microtonal semitones per octave. It is also 16-bit accurate with better than 1mV resolution, and is also open-source, so both the firmware (including the included scales/tunings) and hardware is available for modification and/or adaptation to other formats (someone did a dual Buchla format version of it). However, it doesn't support MIDI or SD cards, nor Scala scales. See https://github.com/mxmxmx/O_C and firmware documentation at https://github.com/mxmxmx/O_C/wiki/Ornaments-and-Crimes-extended-firmw are
tubbutec
Hi,

again an update:

been working on this for the last months, picture shows a version I had a few Months back. Final version will have a larger display.

Lot of the features have been implemented already, all the basic stuff is already working:

Midi in out, quantizer, gates, various modes, usb, the editor, loading and saving scales etc..

Working very smoothly and it's a lot of fun already..

Still some way to go to go, but hoping the Eurorack version will be available in April, the 5HE version a bit later.

microtonal
sweet
calaveras
stupendous!
microtonal
tubbutec wrote:
Hi,

again an update:

.....
Still some way to go to go, but hoping the Eurorack version will be available in April, the 5HE version a bit later.



By 5HE are you talking 5U MOTM or MU format?
aaooaa
Watching this thread because I'll definitely be picking one up once it's done. I've been waiting for something like this for years.
Bojmir Raj Raj
I was just about to start a thread requesting basically exactly what you describe!

Now that I'm fully recovered from a massive stroke, complete with near-death out-of-body experiences and all that shamanistic stuff, it dawns on me that it's high time I join the ranks of financial ruin and lonesome onanism with a modular system, and what's been holding me back, since I don't work in 12tet, is just such a microtonal tuning system!

I assume it'll be available in different formats- Eurorack for me as I already have a handful of Doepfer modules for noise shows, and euro seems to be the format of choice for clones of the old Soviet stuff I love so much!
Gary Dad
applause
I am so buying this.
methodius
exactly what i've been looking for.... thumbs up
freq_divider
Great work! Like many others on this thread, i've been waiting for this one for a long time. Count me in!
Bojmir Raj Raj
Servus Tubbutec!

Say, I hope it's okay to do a feature request here- could you do a cv output for velocity, if you haven't already done that? Something I discovered, having done microtonal music for years, is that the more "feely" and "organic" the instruments you use, the better your chances that people will hear the music as deliberate and interesting, rather than just wonky or weird, and dynamics are a huge part of that.
teknobryan
looks awesome. I'll be looking for it when it's released
thresholdpeople
Fantastic! Watching with interest.

Any chance this'll be available as PCBs or a kit and not a complete module? I'd like to build it into something I'm working on.
methodius
Feature request:

Dunno what you call it ... but in Nord Modular G2 I have this function on quantizer to evenly distribute the chances of hitting a certain note ... So for example if I chose C F F# G notes only per octave - all notes would have equal chance of hitting them ... If there is no 'equal distribution of chance'/octave hitting F# with CV would be much harder than C F or G because F# is so close to F and G.

Hopefully you understand what I mean.

I always found that feature very useful, to equally distribute the chances of hitting the notes I want...Would be even more useful I imagine in a microtonal quantizer.
Mood Organ
methodius wrote:
Feature request:

Dunno what you call it ... but in Nord Modular G2 I have this function on quantizer to evenly distribute the chances of hitting a certain note


Yes, absolutely this. I rarely hear anyone talk about it, but it's hugely helpful if you're doing generative / stochastic music. You really want to treat the notes as a set of equals, not as voltage regions of differing size.
tom.bzode
Mood Organ wrote:
methodius wrote:
Feature request:

Dunno what you call it ... but in Nord Modular G2 I have this function on quantizer to evenly distribute the chances of hitting a certain note


Yes, absolutely this. I rarely hear anyone talk about it, but it's hugely helpful if you're doing generative / stochastic music. You really want to treat the notes as a set of equals, not as voltage regions of differing size.


Yes yes yes.

Also totally buying this module when it comes out. This is what I've wanted for ages.
zed888
Sold! Directly loading .scl files is perfect for me, so please keep that SD card slot.
High Wolf
Just discovered this one, exactly what I'm looking for! Can't wait!
MoogCloud
applause
Dunej
Definitely, definitely would buy one!
tubbutec
Hi here are a few display screenshots to hopefully make your wait less painful. The actual graphics may change until the release version...

Main Menu:


File browser with scale preview


Scale editor - you can edit cents, fractions and select from a list of common intervals


Input / Output configuration for channel 1:


Midi routing


Manual VCO calibration


Configuration menu


There are many more pages and features....
tubbutec
Bojmir Raj Raj wrote:
Servus Tubbutec!

Say, I hope it's okay to do a feature request here- could you do a cv output for velocity, if you haven't already done that? Something I discovered, having done microtonal music for years, is that the more "feely" and "organic" the instruments you use, the better your chances that people will hear the music as deliberate and interesting, rather than just wonky or weird, and dynamics are a huge part of that.


This is already implemented smile

thresholdpeople wrote:
Any chance this'll be available as PCBs or a kit and not a complete module?


Could be possible to have a assembled PCB without the front panel, but DIY would be pretty difficult. This is mostly fine pitch SMD..

methodius wrote:
this function on quantizer to evenly distribute the chances of hitting a certain note


Such a random function is planned as a feature but currently not implemented.
freq_divider
tubbutec wrote:

Manual VCO calibration


Configuration menu


There are many more pages and features....


Impressive! The calibration options are certainly very useful!
tubbutec
freq_divider wrote:

Impressive! The calibration options are certainly very useful!


Currently working on a automatic VCO calibration procedure.

It will also be possible to save and load VCO calibration data.
ear ear
tubbutec wrote:
Could be possible to have a assembled PCB without the front panel...


It would be fantastic if you could do this. hyper
thresholdpeople
tubbutec wrote:
Could be possible to have a assembled PCB without the front panel...


Yep! That would be awesome!
six_minds
tubbutec wrote:
freq_divider wrote:

Impressive! The calibration options are certainly very useful!


Currently working on a automatic VCO calibration procedure.

It will also be possible to save and load VCO calibration data.


This automatic VCO calibration sounds pretty great; have been thinking that there are no Quantizers with this feature for a while!

I wish it would be minus the midi/USB input but with 4 channels!

And maybe some ASR type function if there is a wish to be flashy (:

But am definitely on board for this with the first run.
justintonation
This sounds awesome. I will definitely be getting one.

Also since this is also a midi to cv module perhaps it should also be able to switch scales using the midi tuning standard. This would enable it to be controlled by tall kite's alt.tuner program which allows adaptive tuning (single note tuning) see here:
http://www.tallkite.com/alt-tuner.html

Here is more information regarding the midi tuning standard
http://www.microtonal-synthesis.com/MIDItuning.htmlwww.microtonal-synt hesis.com/MIDItuning.html
tubbutec
justintonation wrote:
it should also be able to switch scales using the midi tuning standard.


Hi even though not implemented at the moment, it will be. My other microtonal products Juno-66 and SH-1oh1 both accept midi tuning messages..
justintonation
tubbutec wrote:
justintonation wrote:
it should also be able to switch scales using the midi tuning standard.


Hi even though not implemented at the moment, it will be. My other microtonal products Juno-66 and SH-1oh1 both accept midi tuning messages..


Excellent !
I have been looking at the Juno 66 project and it looks cool too.
Slightly off topic. How hard is the juno 66 mod to install? Does it need much cutting of panels etc?
tubbutec
justintonation wrote:

Slightly off topic. How hard is the juno 66 mod to install? Does it need much cutting of panels etc?


https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2493737#2493737
six_minds
Hey,
Any updates on how the build is going and when it will become available? I'm super excited about this one, and am eager to plan it in to the system smile
tubbutec
Here is a progress report:

Most functions of the module are working well, but since there will be a lot of functionality implemented, there is still a lot to do.
We will have a new hardware prototype with a larger display and a few corrections ready for mid-April.
After this, the first production run of the hardware will be produced, which may take another month.

Of course we hope software will be finished soon and we can ship the µTune. But on the other hand it is of greatest importance to ship a finished product with a great set of features.
Thanks for waiting and I hope you won't be disappointed.

Here is the final panel design:
[/img]
adnauseam
this project looks rad!

It's about time. I know another wiggler, John Nobel, has been working on his own scala micro quantizer with trigger i/o but he has never really thought about making it commercially available.

Will you be the first to make a scala uTuning quantizer in euro? I guess O&C might do it with the newer firmwares but I haven't looked into it.

I have to ask, why the midi i/o? Seems handy i guess - especially if it's simply a bonus feature of the platform you're using. I would have assumed you would have left the midi-cv stuff to the many other modules out there already from doepfer, MI etc. Not for shame. It's pretty rad if you ask me.

What's the expected release date looking like? Any prices yet? seems like the kind of module one might want to have a couple of.

Thanks for listening - I can't wait!

*edit - oh! I hope I'm not the only person to spot what I believe a mislabelled jack! You have 2 jacks labelled CV 1 - I would assume the bottom right input jack is to be labelled Gate 2. Unless i'm misunderstanding...
RubberGong
Looks amazing.

This will also double as a midi cv interface, that is very nice. - I was wondering if it would also work as a microtonal device for midi->midi - inserting this in a midi chain and getting it to "translate" a sequencers midi notes to microtonal notes using "midibend". If yes, would it be able to scale multiple midi devices?
tubbutec
RubberGong wrote:

This will also double as a midi cv interface, that is very nice. - I was wondering if it would also work as a microtonal device for midi->midi - inserting this in a midi chain and getting it to "translate" a sequencers midi notes to microtonal notes using "midibend". If yes, would it be able to scale multiple midi devices?


Not only will it double as midi cv interface, you can also use the midi part completely independent of the cv part, there is a powerful midi routing engine implemented.

cv/gate to midi conversion is on our list and currently implemented as a prove of concept. For each channel you can define an output channel which sends note on/off + pitch bend.

midi to µTonal midi conversion is possible, but can only work monophonic due to restrictions of the midi standard.

adnauseam wrote:
You have 2 jacks labelled CV 1

This has already been noticed and corrected, the picture is a bit older.. Thanks for pointing this out though!

adnauseam wrote:
I have to ask, why the midi i/o? Seems handy i guess - especially if it's simply a bonus feature of the platform you're using. I would have assumed you would have left the midi-cv stuff to the many other modules out there already from doepfer, MI etc. Not for shame. It's pretty rad if you ask me.


We wanted to build the ultimate µTonal multitool. Having to buy a separate midi to cv interface if you can implement the functionality voids this philosophy.

adnauseam wrote:
What's the expected release date looking like? Any prices yet?

Release date: As I wrote above, hopefully soon. Price: We need talk to distributors before settling on a price, so no figure at the moment.
mmeixner
thresholdpeople wrote:
Fantastic! Watching with interest.

Any chance this'll be available as PCBs or a kit and not a complete module? I'd like to build it into something I'm working on.


+1 !!
justintonation
tubbutec wrote:


Not only will it double as midi cv interface, you can also use the midi part completely independent of the cv part, there is a powerful midi routing engine implemented.

cv/gate to midi conversion is on our list and currently implemented as a prove of concept. For each channel you can define an output channel which sends note on/off + pitch bend.

midi to µTonal midi conversion is possible, but can only work monophonic due to restrictions of the midi standard.



With the midi to midi part will it be also possible to send tuning tables via sysex messages? This would make multi-timbrality available and bypass the restrictions of using midi pitch bend, the limitation being that only selected synthesizers allow tuning table dumps. The two most common formats for this are the Midi Tuning Standard format and the Yamaha format. The Midi Tuning Standard is currently implemented on current DSI synths (Prophet 6, 08, 12 OB06 etc), the Korg monologue, your own juno 66 and was implemented in 1990s Ensoniq and Emu synths and samplers. The yahama sysex format was used on the DX7IID era of instruments and modules.
justintonation
Another question.

Is there the ability to add a footswitch to switch tunings? I suppose any trigger input could be used this way with say a doepfer footswitch module.

Is this currently possible or in the works ?
tubbutec
Hi,

current status of this module:
- Software almost finished
- Second hardware prototype with larger display will be assembled next week, front panels powder coated and screen printed. If everything fits and works we will produce the first batch.
µTune will be presented at Superbooth17

I tried to write down all the features currently implemented. This is a very rough list, if anything is unclear please let me know:
----------------------------

µTune is a tool designed to serve all needs that may arise when dealing with microtonal scales in a modular context.
Is is:

- A two-channel microtonal midi interface
- A two channel microtonal quantizer/mapper
- A Scale editor
- More than the sum of these parts

Its inputs and outputs can be freely configured to various functions. It can also detect when an input is plugged in and change its behaviour accordingly.
Here is a very quickly written overview of its current features:

Quantizer / Mapper
- CV inputs adjustable to custom V/Octave
- Inputs can map to scale degrees, transpose or shift a scale
- High precission CV outputs
- Quantizer can run in continous mode, gated or triggered

Midi to CV interface
- Midi from DIN midi or USB midi
- Dual Monophonic and 2 different Duophonic modes possible

Scale editor
- Any number of notes per scale
- For each note edit: cents, fraction or select from a list of common intervals
- scales not based on the octave are possible
- quickly generate EDO scales
- deactivate certain notes in a scale
- save and load scales on SD card in scl format

VCO calibration
- Easily calibrate any VCO using built in tuner
- 10 point calibration of pitch
- save and load calibration data on SD card

CV to midi interface
- microtonal 2-channel cv/gate to midi interface
- uses midi pitch bend commands to generate microtonal pitch

MIDI router
- a powerful midi router and merger
- route notes / clock and sysex independently
- have a usb midi interface independently from quantizer for example

Firmware update from SD card

IO functions
CV out: microtonal pitch, velocity chan1, velocity chan 1/2, after touch chan 1/2
Gate out: Midi gate, midi clock, midi start/stop, pass from input
CV in: map to pitch, transpose chan 1/2, shift scale chan 1/2
Gate in: trigger mapping, gate mapping, measure frequency, trigger random transpose chan 1/2

Planned features
- Automatic VCO calibration
- Live pitch matching using closed loop approach
- Support KBM keyboard mapping files
- Midi to microtonal midi conversion
- Send/ Receive midi tuning dumps
- Switch tunings via trigger in
- .. more

Extensions
µTune features an extension port and we are planning
- Two more channels for a total of 4
- An oscillator extension with perfectly pitched OSCs
mmeixner
tubbutec wrote:
Hi,

current status of this module:
- Software almost finished
- Second hardware prototype with larger display will be assembled next week, front panels powder coated and screen printed. If everything fits and works we will produce the first batch.
µTune will be presented at Superbooth17

I tried to write down all the features currently implemented. This is a very rough list, if anything is unclear please let me know:
----------------------------

µTune is a tool designed to serve all needs that may arise when dealing with microtonal scales in a modular context.
Is is:

- A two-channel microtonal midi interface
- A two channel microtonal quantizer/mapper
- A Scale editor
- More than the sum of these parts

Its inputs and outputs can be freely configured to various functions. It can also detect when an input is plugged in and change its behaviour accordingly.
Here is a very quickly written overview of its current features:

Quantizer / Mapper
- CV inputs adjustable to custom V/Octave
- Inputs can map to scale degrees, transpose or shift a scale
- High precission CV outputs
- Quantizer can run in continous mode, gated or triggered

Midi to CV interface
- Midi from DIN midi or USB midi
- Dual Monophonic and 2 different Duophonic modes possible

Scale editor
- Any number of notes per scale
- For each note edit: cents, fraction or select from a list of common intervals
- scales not based on the octave are possible
- quickly generate EDO scales
- deactivate certain notes in a scale
- save and load scales on SD card in scl format

VCO calibration
- Easily calibrate any VCO using built in tuner
- 10 point calibration of pitch
- save and load calibration data on SD card

CV to midi interface
- microtonal 2-channel cv/gate to midi interface
- uses midi pitch bend commands to generate microtonal pitch

MIDI router
- a powerful midi router and merger
- route notes / clock and sysex independently
- have a usb midi interface independently from quantizer for example

Firmware update from SD card

IO functions
CV out: microtonal pitch, velocity chan1, velocity chan 1/2, after touch chan 1/2
Gate out: Midi gate, midi clock, midi start/stop, pass from input
CV in: map to pitch, transpose chan 1/2, shift scale chan 1/2
Gate in: trigger mapping, gate mapping, measure frequency, trigger random transpose chan 1/2

Planned features
- Automatic VCO calibration
- Live pitch matching using closed loop approach
- Support KBM keyboard mapping files
- Midi to microtonal midi conversion
- Send/ Receive midi tuning dumps
- Switch tunings via trigger in
- .. more

Extensions
µTune features an extension port and we are planning
- Two more channels for a total of 4
- An oscillator extension with perfectly pitched OSCs


Whoa!
nanners

instant order!

hoping for a PCB or kit version though (5U system here...)
tubbutec
mmeixner wrote:

hoping for a PCB or kit version though (5U system here)


Yes, there will be a DIY version (PCB assembled with SMD parts). And of course instructions how to wire it up.

Also planning 5HE versions, but want to finish the 3HE first
mmeixner
tubbutec wrote:
mmeixner wrote:

hoping for a PCB or kit version though (5U system here)


Yes, there will be a DIY version (PCB assembled with SMD parts). And of course instructions how to wire it up.

Also planning 5HE versions, but want to finish the 3HE first


Great! More than one can hope for, usually - thanks!

thumbs up
Phil999
incredible work.
six_minds
This is fanstastic; im so happy about the expansion port and the auto calibration!
dark_carcass
im going to superbooth
when the first batch will be available to buy eek! hyper MY ASS IS BLEEDING
tubbutec
not allowed to sell anything at superbooth, but first batch will go into production in about 2 weeks
six_minds
is there a way to pre-order this directly? I am very eager to get this! (:
tubbutec
six_minds wrote:
is there a way to pre-order this directly? I am very eager to get this! (:


Please send a mail to mail (ät) tubbutec (döt) de

Will put you on the list and let you know as soon as we start taking orders.
Thank you
Jamesf1
Hi,

Cool looking module.

Can you please let me know how many hp the unit is so I can make some room in my case.

Also is the module going to come pre-loaded with some scales. How many? Mix of standard plus some more experimental?


Apologies if these have already been answered but I could not see them in the thread.

Cheers,
Andy
tubbutec
Jamesf1 wrote:

Can you please let me know how many hp the unit is so I can make some room in my case.

Hi Andy, it is 8HP

Jamesf1 wrote:

Also is the module going to come pre-loaded with some scales. How many? Mix of standard plus some more experimental?

We are planning to have scales already on the SD card, yes. standard scales of course and then there are some great scale packs out there, but have not asked their creators yet, if we can use them for a product.
If not, it is just a matter of drag and drop for the user to copy them on the SD card.

Various scale packs by Sevish:
http://sevish.com/music-resources/

Xen-Arts pack:
http://xen-arts.net/xen-arts-vsti-microtuning-library/

And of course the huge collection of 4500 scales by Scala creator Huygens-Fokker:
http://www.huygens-fokker.org/docs/scales.zip

If you have any suggestions which scales to include, please let me know.
Jamesf1
Cheers for the information. The Sevish scale packs look like just the sort of thing I am after.

I have also sent an email to your address as I would like to order as soon as available.

Many thanks.
toitoy
Could it be possible to make it work with Yamaha CS30?
tubbutec
toitoy wrote:
Could it be possible to make it work with Yamaha CS30?


Yes, it would work with any synth with CV/gate input
toitoy
tubbutec wrote:
toitoy wrote:
Could it be possible to make it work with Yamaha CS30?


Yes, it would work with any synth with CV/gate input


well, but cs30 requires Hz/Volt control and uses s-trig with 5V pullup. Is it ok?
tubbutec
toitoy wrote:
tubbutec wrote:
toitoy wrote:
Could it be possible to make it work with Yamaha CS30?


Yes, it would work with any synth with CV/gate input


well, but cs30 requires Hz/Volt control and uses s-trig with 5V pullup. Is it ok?


I see, Hz/V is currently not supported, but I will put it on the feature list.
toitoy
That's very cool, looking forward to the release!
tubbutec
[/img]
dark_carcass
hyper hyper screaming goo yo SlayerBadger!
tubbutec
We will be at Superbooth 2017 presenting the µTune.
Come visit us at booth 305 and test it smile
tubbutec
Interview on Superbooth, showing a little bit of the µTune:
https://youtu.be/9gm1tDAjiY4?t=1m20s
Paranormal Patroler
d'oh! 1000 I cannot believe I missed you guys at SuperBooth. Last night in Berlin and after everything I see this; sad banana Must-buy for me. Please make this happen!
danielanez
mmeixner wrote:
thresholdpeople wrote:
Fantastic! Watching with interest.

Any chance this'll be available as PCBs or a kit and not a complete module? I'd like to build it into something I'm working on.


+1 !!


+2 for a DIY version. Non presoldered SMD would be better, I think

I'm glad someone brought up the Hz/v standard. If it could be separate by channel that would allow me to use my MS-20 mini with my euro.

There's a feature request I've always wanted: could the quantized scales be updated realtime by holding chords with a keyboard through the MIDI in? That way, when playing a song live, you could make the whole system change chords of your arpeggiators and whatnot by just following chords in a keyboard!

Awesome module!
z3r01
A couple of dumb questions (do bear with me, apologies in advance), so with this module, I can basically either use a MIDI sequencer, and/or quantise a control voltage source from the modular (without using MIDI)? Also, if I have a MIDI sequence running, I can use the CV Ins to transpose the incoming MIDI sequence etc.?

Bloody hell, have been looking for something like this for awhile now, and not sure how I did not see this sooner.

Anyways, a little feature creep if I may. From what I understand about the module, the CV/Gate outs can be set to different functions (velocity, mod, MIDI Clock/Run), and the module itself has an expansion port.

I was just wondering if it would be possible to have an expander module that would 'breakout' these functions instead? An expander module (about 4hp, or less?) that has additional assignable outputs (maybe 2 per channel), plus a Clock, and a Run/Reset output, would make this whole package pretty awesome.
tubbutec
danielanez wrote:


+2 for a DIY version. Non presoldered SMD would be better, I think



Noted. Some SMD parts have a really fine pitch (0.5mm), nothing one would want to solder by hand. (we did it for the prototypes, but it is no fun)

danielanez wrote:

I'm glad someone brought up the Hz/v standard. If it could be separate by channel that would allow me to use my MS-20 mini with my euro.


Of course. All features can be set for each channel independently.

danielanez wrote:

There's a feature request I've always wanted: could the quantized scales be updated realtime by holding chords with a keyboard through the MIDI in? That way, when playing a song live, you could make the whole system change chords of your arpeggiators and whatnot by just following chords in a keyboard!


Not excactly sure what you mean. Could you elaborate?

z3r01 wrote:

so with this module, I can basically either use a MIDI sequencer, and/or quantise a control voltage source from the modular (without using MIDI)? Also, if I have a MIDI sequence running, I can use the CV Ins to transpose the incoming MIDI sequence etc.?


Yes

z3r01 wrote:

I was just wondering if it would be possible to have an expander module that would 'breakout' these functions instead? An expander module (about 4hp, or less?) that has additional assignable outputs (maybe 2 per channel), plus a Clock, and a Run/Reset output, would make this whole package pretty awesome.


The functions of the expander module's inputs and outputs can of course also freely set to any function. So it is not a problem to always have clock, start/stop, etc.
z3r01
tubbutec wrote:

z3r01 wrote:

so with this module, I can basically either use a MIDI sequencer, and/or quantise a control voltage source from the modular (without using MIDI)? Also, if I have a MIDI sequence running, I can use the CV Ins to transpose the incoming MIDI sequence etc.?


Yes

z3r01 wrote:

I was just wondering if it would be possible to have an expander module that would 'breakout' these functions instead? An expander module (about 4hp, or less?) that has additional assignable outputs (maybe 2 per channel), plus a Clock, and a Run/Reset output, would make this whole package pretty awesome.


The functions of the expander module's inputs and outputs can of course also freely set to any function. So it is not a problem to always have clock, start/stop, etc.


Thanks for the reply, tubbutec.

Ah ok ok, I misinterpreted the part about the expansion module. Somehow I misread it as separate expansion modules for different functions. My bad. d'oh!

With regards to the expander, any idea how many hp it is going to be for now?

Pretty much sold on the module, and eagerly looking forward to it. thumbs up

Thanks again!
CopperHydra
This is a badass utility. Is it capable of polyphonic aftertouch? I'm imagining several uTune's chained together via midi. Also, a feature I'm sure a lot of people would be interested in is an auto tune function. Would these be possible in future updates with this hardware?
freq_divider
tubbutec wrote:
Interview on Superbooth, showing a little bit of the µTune:
https://youtu.be/9gm1tDAjiY4?t=1m20s


that prototype looks great! i even like the color Mr. Green
tubbutec
z3r01 wrote:
With regards to the expander, any idea how many hp it is going to be for now?


Currently trying to fit two more complete channels (8 sockets) into 2HP, but can not promise anything

CopperHydra wrote:
Is it capable of polyphonic aftertouch?
Yes


CopperHydra wrote:

I'm imagining several uTune's chained together via midi.

This will be possible but maybe not necessary. There will be an extension module with two more channels and you can chain several of these for even more channels.

CopperHydra wrote:

Also, a feature I'm sure a lot of people would be interested in is an auto tune function. Would these be possible in future updates with this hardware?


Currently there is a manual VCO calibration procedure which you perform once for each VCO. We will automate this, so a VCO is characterised and calibrated with the touch of a button.
You can save and load this calibration on the SD card.

But maybe what you are thinking about is a continuous measurement and adjustment of the VCO frequency. This feature is possible with the current hardware, but we have not tested it yet. It is also somewhat debatable if this is a 'good' feature at all: By creating such a feedback loop, the original characteristic of the VCO (the reason why you would use an analogue oscillator in the first place) is replaced by the characteristic of the feedback loop.
Paranormal Patroler
Any chance the expander's inputs can be set up so that the NoteOn information also has CV-controllable velocity? It's something I appreciate on the a-192-2 and ADDAC222 and I'd love to have it here as well. Seems like this isn't an option with the current hardware options unless you map CV input #2 to velocity which is a loss in my humble opinion.

I wouldn't mind doing that via the expander if possible. Especially if you keep it at 2HP.
myecholalia
I guess there is no banana version in the cards, is there?
justintonation
Sorry if this has already been asked. But how will it treat slew, slides, portamento etc?
okkoto
Enjoy the show!
pisrecords
any news? It's peanut butter jelly time!
'';l;"
tubbutec
Paranormal Patroler wrote:

I wouldn't mind doing that via the expander if possible. Especially if you keep it at 2HP.


Put velocity for cv-gate to midi converter on the feature list. Thanks for the suggestion.

myecholalia wrote:

I guess there is no banana version in the cards, is there?


Currently not, no. We will however offer a DIY version with unsoldered jack sockets. This should allow it to easily use banana sockets instead.
An important remark about this however: With banana jacks there is no dedicated ground connection in connector and wires. Instead a common ground on the backplane is used. This may lead to additional noise on the CV output which might lower the precision. We have not tested this.

justintonation wrote:

how will it treat slew, slides, portamento etc?


Currently this is not implemented. It is of course possible to implement these in software. However it is debatable if adjusting portamento parameters with the on screen menu is desirable. I will put it on the feature list if you like, but maybe also consider using a slew rate limiter for this task.

pisrecords wrote:
any news? It's peanut butter jelly time!

We are now working on several fronts:
- Finding the right manufactures for front panel and SMD assembly, getting quotes, sourcing parts, etc.. (almost done)
- Building a few more units by hand for beta testers (sorry we already have enough)
- Finishing the bootloader (firmware update from SD card), so beta testers can actually receive their units
- Software is currently working and the module usable, but with you guys adding feature request all the time of course software development will take some time..
- Designing the extension module(s).
justintonation
tubbutec wrote:


justintonation wrote:

how will it treat slew, slides, portamento etc?


Currently this is not implemented. It is of course possible to implement these in software. However it is debatable if adjusting portamento parameters with the on screen menu is desirable. I will put it on the feature list if you like, but maybe also consider using a slew rate limiter for this.


Sorry i think i did not explain my question correctly. I am wondering what happens to pitch cv from analog sequencers such as Doepfer a-155 and Verbos multistage which add slew to their outputs. I have never used any quantizer before. Does the quantizer preserve portamento or does it quantize rising or falling cv to the nearest step in the scale?

Thanks
zed888
tubbutec wrote:

But maybe what you are thinking about is a continuous measurement and adjustment of the VCO frequency. This feature is possible with the current hardware, but we have not tested it yet. It is also somewhat debatable if this is a 'good' feature at all: By creating such a feedback loop, the original characteristic of the VCO (the reason why you would use an analogue oscillator in the first place) is replaced by the characteristic of the feedback loop.

Yeah, this doesn't seem useful to me. A more standard tuner (A=440, 443, 415, whatever) would be very handy though. Sorry if that has already been listed as a feature already.
It sounds like this is the way you'd be going anyway, but for the record I'd want a full kit with all the parts and the smd stuff pre-soldered.
As far as glide/lag goes, I say don't bother. Unless you're going to add a dedicated glide knob, menu diving to change a lag value doesn't sound fun. Ladik makes a couple affordable 4hp lag modules- I'll get one of those.
Also- was changing tuning with a trigger a planned feature or just a possible feature? I get confused. This seems like a must to me.
Thanks for all your hard work. It's nice to see the pics of the real unit!
Phil999
why would you want to change tuning with a trigger?
zed888
Because you could use a footswitch if you have your hands full, use a more convenient button/controller, switch tuning in the middle of a sequence, etc...
tubbutec
justintonation wrote:


Sorry i think i did not explain my question correctly. I am wondering what happens to pitch cv from analog sequencers such as Doepfer a-155 and Verbos multistage which add slew to their outputs. I have never used any quantizer before. Does the quantizer preserve portamento or does it quantize rising or falling cv to the nearest step in the scale?

Thanks


Depending on your setting µTune will sample continuously, gated or triggered. So if you have a slowly changing cv input you will either get a glissando or a representation of the cv at the moment of triggering. Pretty sure this is the case with every quantiser.

zed888 wrote:


A more standard tuner (A=440, 443, 415, whatever) would be very handy though. Sorry if that has already been listed as a feature already.


It is not listed, but already included

zed888 wrote:

It sounds like this is the way you'd be going anyway, but for the record I'd want a full kit with all the parts and the smd stuff pre-soldered.

Will be available, yes.

zed888 wrote:

As far as glide/lag goes, I say don't bother. Unless you're going to add a dedicated glide knob, menu diving to change a lag value doesn't sound fun.


My thought exactly smile

zed888 wrote:

Also- was changing tuning with a trigger a planned feature or just a possible feature? I get confused. This seems like a must to me.
Thanks for all your hard work. It's nice to see the pics of the real unit!


I have a beta tester with a similar request and we will think of a way to make this work in a user friendly way. There must be a mechanism to define which scales to select from, which order, by trigger, or select via CV etc..
Paranormal Patroler
tubbutec wrote:
zed888 wrote:

Also- was changing tuning with a trigger a planned feature or just a possible feature? I get confused. This seems like a must to me.
Thanks for all your hard work. It's nice to see the pics of the real unit!


I have a beta tester with a similar request and we will think of a way to make this work in a user friendly way. There must be a mechanism to define which scales to select from, which order, by trigger, or select via CV etc..


I say go for CV selection. If people want the option to trigger they can use a sequencer for the job. Most quantizers have a CV input for transposition or scale selection anyway.
thresholdpeople
I second CV selection over trigger. This will allow for specific tuning changes, as opposed to having to step through X- choices with a trigger. It's like the difference between selecting tuning system with a knob or up/down buttons.
zed888
I'd be happy with CV, but it seems like there's room for both. Somebody earlier in the thread was asking about using a footswitch. Maybe you'd have your list of scales to rotate with a toggle for CV or trigger/gate.
RubberGong
MORE INFO smile
justintonation
Bump for news?
six_minds
one more bump for updates?
tubbutec
Still waiting for manufacturer quotes, should not be much longer. In the meantime we are working on the firmware and had producing a few more units which will be shipped to beta testers.
bravedog
Looks like a great unit!

When assigning midi from a keyboard, if eg outputting a created 13-note- to-the- octave even tempered scale, would octaves on the keyboard still be octaves in the white/black key layout, or would they shift to 13 keys/octave [to play pitch and octave of C by pressing keyboard keys, play C key and C# key above]?

With this you can invert keyboard with high pitches at the bottom, right?
tubbutec
bravedog wrote:
When assigning midi from a keyboard, if eg outputting a created 13-note- to-the- octave even tempered scale, would octaves on the keyboard still be octaves in the white/black key layout, or would they shift to 13 keys/octave [to play pitch and octave of C by pressing keyboard keys, play C key and C# key above]?


By default the output notes are mapped to the number of the midi note. So one octave would be 13 keys apart and as a result it would shift they way you describe. It will however be possible to use a keyboard mapping file (.KBM, also used by Scala) to map each keyboard key to a specific scala note. Of if you want to use all 13 notes there is no way to fit them into a normal keyboard.

bravedog wrote:
With this you can invert keyboard with high pitches at the bottom, right?


Yes, it is absolutely possible to create a scale (in Scala or in the µTune editor) which inverts the keyboard.
tubbutec
Progress:

- Added an overview screen which shows larger status info and also includes a two channel tuner!

- Fixed bugs and improved speed, various tiny features

- Completed the Firmware updater (via SD - Card)
NewNewRon
Very interesting. Great work. I'd buy one tomorrow.
justintonation
This project is sounding amazing! I'll be buying at least one.

One question, will the various tunings have a common pitch for the root note and global pitch (i.e pitch 0 or 1/1 and A = 440hz or 4??hz etc. in a scala file?) or will each individual tuning have a separate root note and global pitch reference?


I have some ideas where the root pitch changes with each change in scale which could be achieved in various ways. Either by changing the global reference pitch. Or by changing the tuning of 1/1 or else by including some scales in the list that do not have 1/1 as the first pitch but start on a small ratio like 28/27 or 16/15.

Also will scales that do not repeat at the octave work ?
tubbutec
justintonation wrote:

One question, will the various tunings have a common pitch for the root note and global pitch (i.e pitch 0 or 1/1 and A = 440hz or 4??hz etc. in a scala file?) or will each individual tuning have a separate root note and global pitch reference?


Scala files do not have an absolute tuning reference, only relative tuning information. You can set the base pitch by adjusting your VCO accordingly. The µTune contains a two channel tuner for this purpose.

Scala files also do not support the tuning of the 1/1 note, because all pitches are relative to it.

justintonation wrote:

Also will scales that do not repeat at the octave work ?


Yes
justintonation
Thanks for the info. The on board tuner should be really helpful!

I was just reading more about the scala file specification. it seems that 1/1 is also implied in all scales. So the first note to input in your file is your first step away from 0 (1/1) in either a cents or ratio value.
tubbutec
Print test and color sample

[/img]
RubberGong
I was thinking a clock out would make a lot of sense in the expander, at least for my needs smile - would make it a lot more versatile as a straight up midi cv interface.
undothis
Is there a way for this or another module to change speed and time signature of pitch CV generated from an arp module?

Meaning if I have an arpeggiator going into a multi one of the outs will get divided and controle an oscillator. The other one would stay normal so I can have two arpeggios going at different speeds and time signatures? Hope that makes sense.

Thank you
bravedog
Hi, I'm unclear on defining scales as scala files and wonder if defining scales will be within the module, or whether one downloads and uses the scala program independently, and only import them into the module after creation? Scala program is at
http://www.huygens-fokker.org/scala/

Can anyone familiar with this program tell me if documentation is good and program easy to use, assuming this is how scales for this module are to be created and then imported?

Anyway looks exciting, I wonder current hoped for release date and cost for this module?
zed888
undothis wrote:
Is there a way for this or another module to change speed and time signature of pitch CV generated from an arp module?

Meaning if I have an arpeggiator going into a multi one of the outs will get divided and controle an oscillator. The other one would stay normal so I can have two arpeggios going at different speeds and time signatures? Hope that makes sense.

Thank you

Unless it's an extra feature not mentioned before, this module won't help. You need a clock divider. There are many available- do a search on modulargrid and you'll get lots of results.
EDIT- Actually, if you're using a single arpeggiator, the easiest way to do what I think you want is with a clock-syncing delay like the DubJr MK2, Chronoblob, or Dual Looping Delay. The Disiting Mk4 will work too, but with fewer options.
undothis
Hi Thanks for the write. I was under the impression that a divider was more for trigs and gates not for pitch?

Thank you



zed888 wrote:
undothis wrote:
Is there a way for this or another module to change speed and time signature of pitch CV generated from an arp module?

Meaning if I have an arpeggiator going into a multi one of the outs will get divided and controle an oscillator. The other one would stay normal so I can have two arpeggios going at different speeds and time signatures? Hope that makes sense.

Thank you

Unless it's an extra feature not mentioned before, this module won't help. You need a clock divider. There are many available- do a search on modulargrid and you'll get lots of results.
EDIT- Actually, if you're using a single arpeggiator, the easiest way to do what I think you want is with a clock-syncing delay like the DubJr MK2, Chronoblob, or Dual Looping Delay. The Disiting Mk4 will work too, but with fewer options.
zed888
undothis wrote:
Hi Thanks for the write. I was under the impression that a divider was more for trigs and gates not for pitch?

Thank you


It is. Hence the edit suggesting a delay. Divide the audio, not the pitch cv.
undothis
Gotcha thanks

zed888 wrote:
undothis wrote:
Hi Thanks for the write. I was under the impression that a divider was more for trigs and gates not for pitch?

Thank you


It is. Hence the edit suggesting a delay. Divide the audio, not the pitch cv.
justintonation
bravedog wrote:
Hi, I'm unclear on defining scales as scala files and wonder if defining scales will be within the module, or whether one downloads and uses the scala program independently, and only import them into the module after creation? Scala program is at
http://www.huygens-fokker.org/scala/

Can anyone familiar with this program tell me if documentation is good and program easy to use, assuming this is how scales for this module are to be created and then imported?

Anyway looks exciting, I wonder current hoped for release date and cost for this module?


I do not know about the specifics of this module but I can speak about the ease of use of the scala program. Scala is deep but quite easy to use. It includes a guided tutorial which should get you going for the basic and most used functions of the program. Documentation for scala is also excellent.
bravedog
Thanks! Yes I have installed Scala now and gone through the tutorial now, it's quite a program for tunings! I THINK I can get where I want by editing existing scales, but there are things I don't see yet such as
1] creating scales by scratch by specifying ,say, cents up from tonic
2]creating scales where octave isn't 2/1
3] creating assignments of all midi keys available on a keyboard without any octave values [guess this is done through #2 just setting hi and low notes of keyboard as the 'octave'

in other words, the tutorial seems to deal mostly with analysis and exploration of existing scales, which is great, but I wonder if there's any resource link to creating new scales?

Also in File>open scale I don't see any way to type in scale name? Scrolling through thousands of names inefficient. Probably am missing something...
tubbutec
Update:

Received final front panel sample (see picture), PCBs ordered, almost all parts in stock and the assembler ready to begin.

[/img]
justintonation
bravedog wrote:
Thanks! Yes I have installed Scala now and gone through the tutorial now, it's quite a program for tunings! I THINK I can get where I want by editing existing scales, but there are things I don't see yet such as
1] creating scales by scratch by specifying ,say, cents up from tonic
2]creating scales where octave isn't 2/1
3] creating assignments of all midi keys available on a keyboard without any octave values [guess this is done through #2 just setting hi and low notes of keyboard as the 'octave'

in other words, the tutorial seems to deal mostly with analysis and exploration of existing scales, which is great, but I wonder if there's any resource link to creating new scales?

Also in File>open scale I don't see any way to type in scale name? Scrolling through thousands of names inefficient. Probably am missing something...



Point 1. yes you can do this 2. You can do this too. 3. Notes are just assigned in the order in which you define them in the scala file assuming your synth can handle full synth retuning.

Here is a tutorial that might cover the things that perhaps were not in the tutorial. It covers how to create non octave scales and also just scales. Scales with arbitrary cents values are created in the scame way as just scales, except cents values are used instead of ratios.
http://sevish.com/2015/make-a-new-musical-scale/
sizone
regarding #2, actually, by definition you can't do that. you can create nonoctave scales, but without doubling the frequency of the initial tone you don't have an octave.

creating a new scale in scala is easy. just go to file, new scale and up comes the editing window. you can specify your scale degrees by ratio, cents or frequency
justintonation
sizone wrote:
regarding #2, actually, by definition you can't do that. you can create nonoctave scales, but without doubling the frequency of the initial tone you don't have an octave.


I assumed that he just meant ability to create scales that repeat at intervals other than the octave. I answered his question based on the assumption that this is what he meant. He should of said repeating interval or something rather than octave since as you say an octave refers to the ratio 2/1. But etymology wise octave is from the latin for 8.

Here is some info regarding octaves
http://www.tonalsoft.com/sonic-arts/dict/octave.htm
bravedog
Thanks for your replies! Yes that Sevish link is helpful! Of course I used 'octave' to mean the scale repetition interval, specifically how to set other than 2/1 or true octave. I can't think of another word to use for for the repetition interval for a scale, guess there must be a term?

I remain interested in other resources and tips pages re Scala, please post any such.

I'm also interested in exploring stretching/shrinking keyboards in which as one goes up the keyboard octaves [in my incorrect usage of the term] grow or shrink in interval spread. The simplest implementation is to switch to inappropriate use of Hertz per volt instead of V per octave, such as by running through a converter for eg Korg's Hertz per volt as exist in the Disting. However if this capability might easily be added to the Microtonal module, with adjustable hz/oct, I'd make use of it! [I think not feasible as your implementation is through midi - but I'm still eagerly looking forward to your release!]
tubbutec
@bravedog

in both scala and µTune you can set the 'repetition interval' to anything you like, not just an octave. If you want a scale without any repetition interval on the logarithmic scale, you must define each note explicitly. The result is a scale with 100+ notes, but not a problem and is completely supported.

Hz/V will be supported
Jtalton
so what is the price and ETA on being able to order?
thanks. its looks awesome and will be a day one buy from me.
Paranormal Patroler
Jtalton wrote:
so what is the price and ETA on being able to order?
thanks. its looks awesome and will be a day one buy from me.


I would like to know this as well.
slow_riot
I'm bowled over by the implementation of this! No-one has done it before in modular. Can't wait to get one.

Will it run OK on +/-15V ?

Hope the expo converter circuitry of VCOs is up to the challenge! Microtuning will really show up any limitations.
tubbutec
Jtalton wrote:
so what is the price and ETA on being able to order?
thanks. its looks awesome and will be a day one buy from me.


Don't have an ETA yet. What I can tell you however is that all parts are now on the way to the assembly house, front panel delivery expected this week.
Price will most likely be in 290€, less if you life outside the EU
tubbutec
slow_riot wrote:

Will it run OK on +/-15V ?


Yes, it was designed to also run on +-15V from the start. Actually up to +-18 is ok. Ne additional 5V supply needed.

slow_riot wrote:

Hope the expo converter circuitry of VCOs is up to the challenge! Microtuning will really show up any limitations.


The included VCO calibration helps a lot with ba VCOs
zed888
Do you have a rough price for kits? Are they still planned?
Paranormal Patroler
Any more info on the expander? Is it still planned for 2HP? What functionality will that add? Additional CV control over parameters ?

You mentioned something about pitch tracking, so I have to ask, is there any possibility that I will (in the future) be able to use one of the four channels as a microtonal pitch-to-CV/MIDI device with natural control over amplitude (re: internal envelope follower tracking) ?
tubbutec
Kits are still planned, don't have a price for them yet, but they will be cheaper than the complete version. (You might think this should be obvious but from a manufacturing standpoint it is not necessarily so )

The expander will add two complete channels in 2HP. Each channel having gate in, cv in, gate out, cv out. You can use the exactly like the other channels, which means you can also cv control parameters.

The gate-ins can detect pitch. It could be possible to convert this pitch into midi data. I don't know however if this is stable enough to be actually useful, but I will put it on the list. Envelope tracking is not possible this way.
tubbutec
Expander in 2HP / 33mm depth

Paranormal Patroler
I apologize if I'm asking too many questions.

tubbutec wrote:
The expander will add two complete channels in 2HP. Each channel having gate in, cv in, gate out, cv out. You can use the exactly like the other channels, which means you can also cv control parameters.


This means I can use the CV inputs to address parameters on the other channels, right?

Can I use the MIDI input to send information on other MIDI channels, independently of the quantization channels? You did mention that the module will work as a powerful MIDI router but since I don't have the details I have to ask.
peanut
Super excited for this. Thanks for all the info., Tubbutec!
bandenoire
Would gladly retire my Expert Sleepers modules for 3-4 of the uTunes! Is there a pre-order?
tubbutec
bandenoire wrote:
Would gladly retire my Expert Sleepers modules for 3-4 of the uTunes! Is there a pre-order?


Yes, just contact us at mail@tubbutec.de


µTune is in production now and we are eagerly awaiting the delivery of the first batch
justintonation
tubbutec wrote:
µTune is in production now and we are eagerly awaiting the delivery of the first batch


Excellent ! applause
bravedog
tubbutec wrote:
bandenoire wrote:
Would gladly retire my Expert Sleepers modules for 3-4 of the uTunes! Is there a pre-order?


Yes, just contact us at mail@tubbutec.de


µTune is in production now and we are eagerly awaiting the delivery of the first batch


Tried to email about preorder but got message your email isn't working, error message says
"Delivery failure reason: bad response to DATA command (550 5.7.1 Command rejected)"
---------

update 8/25 after a week of 18 attempts by the mail system to deliver that email the mailer has abandoned it as undeliverable.

A message via the tubbutec website was quickly answered and for now this is probably a better way to reach them if you have this problem, which tubbetec says isn't shared by all.
six_minds
Just to check- is the expander module also in production?? thanks!
tubbutec
six_minds wrote:
Just to check- is the expander module also in production?? thanks!


No, it is still in development and will be available at a later date
f33d
wow, finally THE QUEEN of Quantizers arrives!

feature creep:

- scale shift options of uScale: pre, diaton, post & b-mode chro. & diaton.

- note mask options of Arpitecht: implementing-suggestion: together with the expander we'd got 4 chans so we could set it up like this:
chan. 1. CV-IN quantizing
chan. 2. CV-IN modulating an option for chan. 1. - e.g. making the note-choice tighter ---> of 31 notes / oct smaller & smaller scale with higher volts, now that I am thinking about it, something similar could be done with a VCA & offset on the modulation going to be quantized...
... but the general Idea to use other channels gate & cv-ins for options, like gate in from chan. 2 to "hold/freeze" of chan 1. etc. would be nice that'd bring much more "realistic playing" style instead of just riding a scale up & down, but again ok one could use other module for this an the pre-quantizer-modulation, right? cool

looking much forward to my "last" quanizer w00t
tubbutec
[/img]
six_minds
tubbutec wrote:
six_minds wrote:
Just to check- is the expander module also in production?? thanks!


No, it is still in development and will be available at a later date


ah pity, well am still ready to get at least two! (:
calaveras
very frustrating
tubbutec
Assembled Tubbutec µTune boards will be delivered to us in the next days. We will then test them and as soon we are sure they work perfectly, pre order will start. Here is a not-quite-complete product page:
https://tubbutec.de/µtune/
bravedog
midi in will output max of 4 voice polyphonic out, right? [is there any potential via eg making 2 voice per output channel, to increase this to 8 voice polyphony in future firmware?]

lacking that, will planned expander increase polyphonic max to 6 voice or what? thx
tubbutec
This is a two channel device with 2 CV out, 2 Gate out. So maximum two voice polyphonic (duophonic)

By using extension modules, you can get more channels, et least 8 in total.
thresholdpeople
any idea when the DIY version will be available?
tubbutec
thresholdpeople wrote:
any idea when the DIY version will be available?


Same time as the normal version. Soon.
tubbutec
Mechanical prototype of the extension module. 2 complete channels (2x gate in, 2x cv in, 2x gate out, 2x cv out) in 2HP:
tubbutec
For those of you who want to start planning their modular system, µTune is now on modulargrid:

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/tubbutec-%C2%B5tune-
bravedog
tubbutec wrote:
This is a two channel device with 2 CV out, 2 Gate out. So maximum two voice polyphonic (duophonic)

By using extension modules, you can get more channels, et least 8 in total.


Thanks. As the extension module has 2 CV outs, to get 8 voice polyphonic, would 3 chained extension modules be needed [they'd have this ability if chained, true polyphonic from a single keyboard midi? Or do you mean additional sugnals but not true polyphony ie all 8 notes simultaneously played in a chord on the keyboard?]? Also do you have a rough estimate of extension module price and release date?

Also, does SD card slot load Scala files directly?
tubbutec
bravedog wrote:

Is the extension module has 2 CV outs, to get 8 voice polyphonic, would 3 chained extension modules be needed


That is correct.
They will have true polyphony. It will even be possible to have any combination of multiple polyphonic and monophonic configuratoins.

bravedog wrote:

Also do you have a rough estimate of extension module price and release date?

I will try to make it as affordable as possible, but have to wait for quotes from manufacturers first.

bravedog wrote:

Also, does SD card slot load Scala files directly?


Yes, it can load, edit and save Scala files directly.
Paranormal Patroler
Some questions which are raised by my (very particular) needs at the moment but might shed some light to other people's inquiries:

Seems like as the software stands both channels are using the same scale for the moment? How soon do you plan to allow for separate scales per channel?

On your site you mention that we can use the CV in to "transpose channel 1/2 and shift scale chan 1/2" but below you also mention that one of the planned features is to "switch scales via CV in". So as I understand it, it's not possible to change scales via CV in right now, right?

Is it possible to assign one of the Gate inputs to fire notes on the MIDI output (NoteOn) only when a Gate is received without any effect on the CV outputs? I want it to scale incoming signals but only fire MIDI notes when a Gate occurs.
tubbutec
Paranormal Patroler wrote:

Seems like as the software stands both channels are using the same scale for the moment? How soon do you plan to allow for separate scales per channel?


It is at the top of the TODO list, so it will very likely be part of the first firmware update. Currently we are concentrating on getting a well-tested, stable firmware version.


Paranormal Patroler wrote:

So as I understand it, it's not possible to change scales via CV in right now, right?

That is correct. The difficulty in implementing this (as so often) lies in the user interface. With thousands of scales on the SD card, which ones do you present to the user via CV? So we are looking into providing a way to store 'favorites' which can then be switched via CV.

Paranormal Patroler wrote:

Is it possible to assign one of the Gate inputs to fire notes on the MIDI output (NoteOn) only when a Gate is received without any effect on the CV outputs? I want it to scale incoming signals but only fire MIDI notes when a Gate occurs.

Yes, absolutely. Just configure Gate-in as 'none' and route the CV-to-Midi information to the output of your choice in the midi router. Note on and off are then generated on each rising and falling gate event.
tubbutec
Now getting really close to the release !! hyper

Test productions were successful, SD cards are here, just waiting for the USB cables. Thank you all for pre-ordering smile
NewNewRon
Wow. I'd been away for a while. You have been busy!! I see no way to order from the website so I assume pre-orders are sold out but maybe we can order new modules soon?
tubbutec
NewNewRon wrote:
Wow. I'd been away for a while. You have been busy!! I see no way to order from the website so I assume pre-orders are sold out but maybe we can order new modules soon?


Module is now available at Schneiders Laden
or in the Tubbutec Shop
Paranormal Patroler
Did you separate the two channels so that each one has its own scale? Is there CV control over scale on this release? hyper
Knights Who Say Neve
tubbutec wrote:
NewNewRon wrote:
Wow. I'd been away for a while. You have been busy!! I see no way to order from the website so I assume pre-orders are sold out but maybe we can order new modules soon?


Module is now available at Schneiders Laden
or in the Tubbutec Shop


Does this mean that pre-orders have shipped?

I pre-ordered and paid on 9/10 (Order #4206), but I haven't received any notice of shipment. Or any notice, actually, aside from the automatic ones from the order page and paypal.

EDIT - Preorder shipped.
neonjung
Want. Really, really want.
tubbutec
Assembly, testing and calibration of the modules takes quite a lot of time and we have not been able to ship all of the pre-orders yet. Since Tuesday is a public holiday here, we will ship the rest on Wednesday. You will receive a mail with tracking number. Sorry for the delay...
mafouka
wow, the uTune seems so amazing!

A few questions, sorry in advance if they've already been answered here:

1: Unquantized CV input 1 to quantized CV output 1, can it be done? Block diagram seems to answer yes???

2: Will there be any US distributors selling this wonderful little device?

cheers
tubbutec
mafouka wrote:

1: Unquantized CV input 1 to quantized CV output 1, can it be done? Block diagram seems to answer yes???
cheers


So just normal quantizer operation? Yes. Or do you mean something else?

mafouka wrote:

2: Will there be any US distributors selling this wonderful little device?
cheers

We were in contact with perfectcircuitaudio, but so far they have not ordered. If you want things sped up, why not write them a mail, tell them you are interested in the module.
You can also order in our show, we ship worldwide:
https://tubbutec.de/product/%c2%b5tune/
tubbutec
Update: Currently working on the expander and automatic tuning feature. Both with promising results.
The autotune feature needs some tweaking and a proper gui, but is already great. On the slow setting it can compensate for oscillator drift, on faster settings it will set the correct pitch no matter how you tune your VCO.
tonymasiello
I received mine today. I managed to get it in the rack and make a quick demo video. I am very excited to really start digging into this module.

Here is a little demo video I did... It is a little rough, as this is the first time I've done a demo...

zed888
I'm having some problems with mine using the pitch CV out from a Waldorf KB37. The lowest 3 or so octaves work fine, but around note 40 I get problems with some semitones which will either not change in value from the previous note, or sometimes flick back and forth between the two values while the note is held. Any ideas? So far I've only been using 12-note scales, and I have the problem with the default 12tet tuning as well.
tubbutec
zed888 wrote:
I'm having some problems with mine using the pitch CV out from a Waldorf KB37. The lowest 3 or so octaves work fine, but around note 40 I get problems with some semitones which will either not change in value from the previous note, or sometimes flick back and forth between the two values while the note is held. Any ideas? So far I've only been using 12-note scales, and I have the problem with the default 12tet tuning as well.


Hi, this was just reported a few days ago and there is now a fix:
https://tubbutec.de/blog/%c2%b5tune-recalibrate-cv-input/
zed888
tubbutec wrote:
Hi, this was just reported a few days ago and there is now a fix:
https://tubbutec.de/blog/%c2%b5tune-recalibrate-cv-input/


Done, working perfectly now. Thanks! One other question though- is there a way to have it boot up with the last used tuning loaded? If not, that would be a useful thing to see in the future, maybe as part of the "favorites" feature. Thanks again.
tubbutec
zed888 wrote:
is there a way to have it boot up with the last used tuning loaded? If not, that would be a useful thing to see in the future, maybe as part of the "favorites" feature. Thanks again.


Currently no, but I'll put it on the TODO list..
timoka
excited, ordered from schneiders! just to be sure, this module can also act as cv to midi converter, not just midi to cv?
tubbutec
timoka wrote:
just to be sure, this module can also act as cv to midi converter, not just midi to cv?


Yes, this is correct
timoka
tubbutec wrote:
timoka wrote:
just to be sure, this module can also act as cv to midi converter, not just midi to cv?


Yes, this is correct


perfect, thanks!!
Knights Who Say Neve
My apologies if this has already been discussed -

Is it possible to send MTS bulk tuning dumps from the uTune?
If so, is it possible to edit the program number* of MTS files on the uTune, so that the tuning is sent to a particular tuning preset on the target synth?

I'm thinking of the Prophet Rev 2 in particular, which can accept MTS tuning dumps targeted at tuning program numbers 1-17.


(* I could imaging possibly having to also edit the device id of an MTS bulk tuning dump, but the rev2 id is 00 which is probably standard).
sizone
hardware version 16, serial #0019. I'm copying the .ebi file to the root directory of the sd card, going to the update firmware option, pushing the button. the screen blacks out and the device restarts, but when it comes back it still shows ver 1.00. when I re-enter the misc/expert selection firmware update is the last option, it's not showing the autocalibration.

please advise.
tubbutec
sizone wrote:
hardware version 16.


insert the SD card with the ebi file.
unplug µTune from power (or turn off your rack)
While holding the 'back' button, plug in power (or turn on rack)

Bootloader should start and perform update

you will get a visual feedback if this works correctly
tubbutec
Knights Who Say Neve wrote:
My apologies if this has already been discussed -

Is it possible to send MTS bulk tuning dumps from the uTune?
If so, is it possible to edit the program number* of MTS files on the uTune, so that the tuning is sent to a particular tuning preset on the target synth?

I'm thinking of the Prophet Rev 2 in particular, which can accept MTS tuning dumps targeted at tuning program numbers 1-17.


(* I could imaging possibly having to also edit the device id of an MTS bulk tuning dump, but the rev2 id is 00 which is probably standard).


Hi this feature is on the TODO list and will definitely be implemented soon
sizone
tubbutec wrote:
sizone wrote:
hardware version 16.


insert the SD card with the ebi file.
unplug µTune from power (or turn off your rack)
While holding the 'back' button, plug in power (or turn on rack)

Bootloader should start and perform update

you will get a visual feedback if this works correctly


ACES

thank you
sizone
pleased to announce that the μtune works very well with the karp odyssey. it also works fairly well with littlebits.
timoka
amazing module!! so happy to finally have microtonal scales so easily loaded into my modular! now waiting for the expander channels...
i would have a request though but it's of course an addon and not necessary but i would gladly sell all my other quantizer modules if the µTune had a analog shift register function, if arpeggiator and lfo will be implemented maybe this could be a function too?
anyway, a really great module!
Knights Who Say Neve
timoka wrote:
amazing module!! so happy to finally have microtonal scales so easily loaded into my modular! now waiting for the expander channels...
i would have a request though but it's of course an addon and not necessary but i would gladly sell all my other quantizer modules if the µTune had a analog shift register function, if arpeggiator and lfo will be implemented maybe this could be a function too?
anyway, a really great module!


To be honest, I don't those features belong on this module. There are other modules that specialize in those functions. This module is for microtonal applications; shoveling unrelated items into the menu system would make it more awkward to use and take away development time and effort from what is unique to it.
six_minds
I think an ASR feature wouldnt be too far removed from polyphonic pitch assigning, which once the expander arrives will be an essential feature, both with and without midi.

For me at the moment--aside from simple stuff like outputting a gate upon a scale degree change--is going to be how scale degrees get activated and deactivated via CV or midi.

I would personally love to see scale degree selection supported over midi.
So midi note on for a C major chord opens scale degree 1/4/7. Another midi note on closes those scale degrees. Maybe only the final remaining note stays active. mapping a scale to 88 degrees plus control via a full keyboard plus (mode variable!!!) polyphonic pitch assignment would be massive! And nothing exists that does that right now to my knowledge...

Also for realigning scales to new pitch centers, would be super cool to have a gate in changes scale degree root note to currently selected note on channel 1.

This module has a huge amount of potential (:
timoka
Knights Who Say Neve wrote:
timoka wrote:
amazing module!! so happy to finally have microtonal scales so easily loaded into my modular! now waiting for the expander channels...
i would have a request though but it's of course an addon and not necessary but i would gladly sell all my other quantizer modules if the µTune had a analog shift register function, if arpeggiator and lfo will be implemented maybe this could be a function too?
anyway, a really great module!


To be honest, I don't those features belong on this module. There are other modules that specialize in those functions. This module is for microtonal applications; shoveling unrelated items into the menu system would make it more awkward to use and take away development time and effort from what is unique to it.


i see your point and i agree that too much functions would distract from the main use...but i too think that an asr feature isn't that far-fetched in this context.

i have a question regarding the cv input and the keyboard mapping settings, i don't quite understand how this works with cv. i run a doepfer ribbon controller cv out into cv1 and can scale the cv span on the doepfer module, 0-5v i think. however on most scales on the low spectrum i see the notes change but i don't hear a change, when i increase the cv then suddenly the notes change. so i'm not quite sure how the cv scale should be or if this has to do with the scales...but i think they should repeat on every octave.
i changed the middle key and middle cv on the mapping and this way i can indeed scale it so the whole span gets quantized. however i don't know why i should do this, the cv input should accept cv from 0-5 v right?
it doesn't accept negative voltages but everything above 0V should get quantized i think...
the manual doesn't help here, or maybe i don't see the solution.
thanks
sizone
I can't get the manual vco calibration to work on my unit. the detected frequency won't refresh unless I unplug the patch cable going from the oscillator to the gate in and then plug it back in.

it also won't detect the frequency being outputted by the korg odysssey at all. it always reads 0hz.
sizone
*double post*
Knights Who Say Neve
timoka wrote:
Knights Who Say Neve wrote:
timoka wrote:
amazing module!! so happy to finally have microtonal scales so easily loaded into my modular! now waiting for the expander channels...
i would have a request though but it's of course an addon and not necessary but i would gladly sell all my other quantizer modules if the µTune had a analog shift register function, if arpeggiator and lfo will be implemented maybe this could be a function too?
anyway, a really great module!


To be honest, I don't those features belong on this module. There are other modules that specialize in those functions. This module is for microtonal applications; shoveling unrelated items into the menu system would make it more awkward to use and take away development time and effort from what is unique to it.


i see your point and i agree that too much functions would distract from the main use...but i too think that an asr feature isn't that far-fetched in this context.



How would a microtonal ASR differ from a regular ASR? Not asking to be argumentative - I'd really like to know. I may be misunderstanding what ASRs do, but I thought ASRs just pass an input value from one output to another at clocked intervals. If the input of an ASR doesn't quantize the pitch, how is microtonality a part of its function?
timoka
asr is just another method to send one single cv stream to different outputs.
this module calls itself microtonal modular multitool. i see a relation between asr and the way polyphonic miditocv converter set up their voicing behavior.
a true analog shift register suffers from voltage droop so to have it inside a digital quantizer is understandable, and, it would be a midi asr too.
Knights Who Say Neve
So it shifts the microtonal CV coming out of the module from output to output, instead of playing polytonally. That makes sense.
tonymasiello
I love the module so far...

The one limitation that I am running into is when I use two channels of midi, there is no easy way to get the clock to cv. Right now I am doing it by using the usb for midi in, then using the din out to Yarns, and getting the cv clock from there. I am planning to remove Yarns from my rack eventually, as the uTune should meet most of my midi to cv needs.

I don't know if it is something that would be physically possible, but when using midi in, could one of the cv/gate inputs be repurposed as a clock out?

Thanks!
bravedog
Well just ordered this interesting module!

Nice that it [I think] accepts .kbm modifications to scala scales! Or is this not implemented yet?

I have a question on its midi out, due to my limited understanding of midi theory I'm afraid... let's assume I am controlling uTune with a keyboard via its midi out into uTune using some scala scale. If I then run uTune's midi out, to midi In of another keyboard synth, will that synth output its audio using the scala scale? Or will it revert to its diatonic default 12 tone scale?

If it willl indeed use the scala scale, does this apply even if the repetition interval in uTune isn't an octave, or if there is none?
--------------
Any estimate on expander release date?

thx!
sizone
midi retuning isn't implemented in the software yet as far as I can tell.

keep in mind that if it does get implemented, the retuning will be monophonic via pitch bends.
six_minds
microtonal midi should work fine polyphonicly on multi-timbral synths!
Knights Who Say Neve
six_minds wrote:
microtonal midi should work fine polyphonicly on multi-timbral synths!


Yes, if notes are sent one per channel.

This was called "Guitar Synth Mode" on some older equipment - the guitar controller would send each string's data on a different channel, and the receiver would have the same patch on each channel, so that so each note could get its own pitch bend. (And I guess MPE is an updated version of this idea).
slow_riot
Just ordered one of these. Plan to pair with midi out from Android phone device using Lemur App which has a hex keypad.

If everything works then it will be a very powerful combination for not much $$$.

Thanks for fulfilling a long held wish of mine!
bravedog
Just got mine and there's really a ton of stuff I don't get yet including in the manual. I think I'm finding this module the least comprehensible of the 30 or so I've worked with, but very much like its capabilities and hope I can get a handle on it.

Let's start with 7/17 of the pdf, 3:Main menu. There's a screen cap of the main menu; my issues are with the left side which kind of reads

1 ->C0
<-G#2
2 ->0:a
<-9:g
with this explanation for this section being given. My numbered questions are in brackets like this[]:

"On the left side you can see the status of channels 1 and 2. The right pointing arrow shows the
GATE-in status. It becomes thicker if the gate is active. Next to it, the 'input note' is displayed.
This is the note recognized by the quantizer. The left pointing arrow shows the status of the output
gate. Next to it the 'output note' is shown. This is the note that is mapped via the scale mapper and
put out to CV-out as a voltage. [1: I THINK this means in the example CV1 In is receiving a voltage corresponding to C. Maybe the 0 next to it means in which octave, ie middle C? And CV1 Out is outputting a G#? With maybe the 2 next to it signifying 2 octaves up? With the discrepancy between in and out due to Transpose or Shift settings? Is all this correct, or especially if the 0 and 2 have different meanings, what are they?] There are dierent ways input and output notes can be displayed.
(See notations). [2: What does "See notations" refer to? There is no such chapter in the manual, nor do I see a Notations setting in the actual unit's Config menu or elsewhere. 3: I am GUESSING that in the screen cap section for Ch2, a different way of displaying notes has been chosen? Maybe in this section, the 0 means CV2 In is receiving a voltage interpreted as the root, and outputting the 9th degree of the scale? If this is the case, I guess somehow the remaing info is telling in which octave, but I don't see how :a {in} or :g
[out} convey this info. Or are they telling something else?]

OK that's plenty of questions for now I guess. But briefly, I also don't understand the unit's functional meaning given to Transpose [disctinction from pitch shift] and Shift [modal change?]; aspects of the scale editor; and big chunks of the midi config manual, in which among other things both CV/Gate channels and midi channels are just referred to as channels though there is interplay between them... will keep working on it!
tubbutec
Hi,
forgot to visit this thread at some point, so I did not get notifications for quite a while. Sorry about this. I am now here to answer your questions smile

tonymasiello wrote:
I love the module so far...
I don't know if it is something that would be physically possible, but when using midi in, could one of the cv/gate inputs be repurposed as a clock out?


Unufortunately not physically possible. If you need more outputs, there will be an expander coming soon.

timoka wrote:

i would gladly sell all my other quantizer modules if the µTune had a analog shift register function


I put this on the feature TODO list as CV/Gate to Polyphonic voice assigner.

bravedog wrote:
Nice that it [I think] accepts .kbm modifications to scala scales! Or is this not implemented yet?

Not supported yet, but one of the next things to come.

Quote:
let's assume I am controlling uTune with a keyboard via its midi out into uTune using some scala scale. If I then run uTune's midi out, to midi In of another keyboard synth, will that synth output its audio using the scala scale? Or will it revert to its diatonic default 12 tone scale?


midi to microtonal midi is planned (see list on the website), but not yet implemented. Threre will be support for microtonal midi via midi pitch bend and also by midi tuning dump (for those synths which understand that)

slow_riot wrote:
Just ordered one of these. Plan to pair with midi out from Android phone device using Lemur App which has a hex keypad.


Cool! Let me know if this works, or better yet take a video!
timoka
hi tubbutec, glad you're back here!

i asked this question some time ago and i still haven't figured it out, i paste it here again:
i have a question regarding the cv input and the keyboard mapping settings, i don't quite understand how this works with cv. i run a doepfer ribbon controller cv out into cv1 and can scale the cv span on the doepfer module, 0-5v i think. however on most scales on the low spectrum i see the notes change but i don't hear a change, when i increase the cv then suddenly the notes change. so i'm not quite sure how the cv scale should be or if this has to do with the scales...but i think they should repeat on every octave.
i changed the middle key and middle cv on the mapping and this way i can indeed scale it so the whole span gets quantized. however i don't know why i should do this, the cv input should accept cv from 0-5 v right?
it doesn't accept negative voltages but everything above 0V should get quantized i think...
the manual doesn't help here, or maybe i don't see the solution.


thank you!
tubbutec


First promising results while developing the new autoTune feature for Tubbutec µTune
Feature will be included in the next firmware update.
Normally it is very difficult to perfectly tune multiple analogue oscillators. Even if you have them very close in pitch, slight variances will lead to drift. With this feature your oscillators will be perfectly in tune.
The reason why I am talking about the phase difference between the two oscillators: Even tiny differences in pitch cause the phases of the oscillators to drift, it is a good visualization of frequency differences. As you can see with the autoTune feature activated, the pitch is incredibly stable.
I am showing this with only one frequency here, but of course this applies to any frequency and oscillator pitch is continuously corrected while quantizing or using the midi interface.
More detailed videos about this feature coming soon
tubbutec
timoka wrote:
hi tubbutec, glad you're back here!
i have a question regarding the cv input and the keyboard mapping settings, i don't quite understand how this works with cv.


I will update the manual explaining the keyboard mapping in more detail. I see this is a confusing topic. I tried to explain the mapping here in this thread:
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=193261&start=0
Paranormal Patroler
You can't delete. Don't worry about it.
tubbutec
I can use the autotuning function to play different pitches on the two oscillators. It is pretty awesome, you can clearly hear the difference between a well tempered fifth at 700cent and a perfect fifth at 3/2 = 702cent. The latter has absolutely no beating. Very happy with this so far.
Just spent quite while listing to all the common intervals stored in the scale editor.
six_minds
interesting! how is it responding to more harmonically complex waves? FM sounds?
tubbutec
six_minds wrote:
interesting! how is it responding to more harmonically complex waves? FM sounds?


Maybe, but probably not:

Quote:
Does the tuner function with waveforms different than square or saw?
Pitch detection works with any common waveform: square, saw, triangle, sine, etc. But not with waveforms which have multiple rising zero crossings per period.
six_minds
aha got it; its a timer for zero crossings, or? i missed that- thanks!
tubbutec
six_minds wrote:
aha got it; its a timer for zero crossings, or? i missed that- thanks!

Yes, a high resolution timer detects rising edges. Quite a bit more involved to get a stable reading. But basically yes.
Phil999
the module arrived today at my place, and, immediately after installing, changed everything. To hear two synth voices from my modular system in non-ET is a revelation. My first random choice was the Bulgarian bagpipe scala file from the provided SD card. It was a very good idea to put two channels into the module! Needless to say that with microtonal scales it is very important to hear an interval between two notes. Especially if you are not familiar with that particular scale yet.

At last I have a solution for microtonal scales as a standard, not as a workaround like before. Before I had to have a computer next to me with Scala Relayer running, and a MIDI-CV interface that could add pitch bend information to the note value. Interfaces with separate pitch bend output were more difficult to set up. To record MIDI it was a rather complicated MIDI port mapping. I‘m really glad I don‘t have to do this anymore. And it was monophonic only. To hear the intervals of notes, I had to record each voice first. Often just to find out that it sounded terrible. Of course I also tested scales with a polyphonic microtuning softsynth like Aalto or Diva, before doing these multi-track recordings with the modular system, but it‘s all a bit tiresome.

I would like to bow my head to the brilliant mind of Tubbutec. Thank you very much! My modular system is now complete. This is a very satisfying feeling, to know that there‘s nothing more to add, nothing more to search for. I can now fully concentrate all my energy to music only. This is a great day for me. Perfect timing as well, in winter, with more time for music exploration.
tubbutec
Phil999 wrote:
the module arrived today at my place, and, immediately after installing, changed everything. To hear two synth voices from my modular system in non-ET is a revelation. My first random choice was the Bulgarian bagpipe scala file from the provided SD card. It was a very good idea to put two channels into the module! Needless to say that with microtonal scales it is very important to hear an interval between two notes. Especially if you are not familiar with that particular scale yet.

At last I have a solution for microtonal scales as a standard, not as a workaround like before. Before I had to have a computer next to me with Scala Relayer running, and a MIDI-CV interface that could add pitch bend information to the note value. Interfaces with separate pitch bend output were more difficult to set up. To record MIDI it was a rather complicated MIDI port mapping. I‘m really glad I don‘t have to do this anymore. And it was monophonic only. To hear the intervals of notes, I had to record each voice first. Often just to find out that it sounded terrible. Of course I also tested scales with a polyphonic microtuning softsynth like Aalto or Diva, before doing these multi-track recordings with the modular system, but it‘s all a bit tiresome.

I would like to bow my head to the brilliant mind of Tubbutec. Thank you very much! My modular system is now complete. This is a very satisfying feeling, to know that there‘s nothing more to add, nothing more to search for. I can now fully concentrate all my energy to music only. This is a great day for me. Perfect timing as well, in winter, with more time for music exploration.


Made me happy to read this, thanks. Hope your first impression of the module will continue. Have fun exploring the microtonal space!
sizone
so how does one hook up the utune to a +/- 15v supply? I don't remember seeing any traditional connectors. just go through the eurorack style header?
kindredlost
Phil999 wrote:
the module arrived today at my place, and, immediately after installing, changed everything. To hear two synth voices from my modular system in non-ET is a revelation. My first random choice was the Bulgarian bagpipe scala file from the provided SD card. It was a very good idea to put two channels into the module! Needless to say that with microtonal scales it is very important to hear an interval between two notes. Especially if you are not familiar with that particular scale yet.

At last I have a solution for microtonal scales as a standard, not as a workaround like before. Before I had to have a computer next to me with Scala Relayer running, and a MIDI-CV interface that could add pitch bend information to the note value. Interfaces with separate pitch bend output were more difficult to set up. To record MIDI it was a rather complicated MIDI port mapping. I‘m really glad I don‘t have to do this anymore. And it was monophonic only. To hear the intervals of notes, I had to record each voice first. Often just to find out that it sounded terrible. Of course I also tested scales with a polyphonic microtuning softsynth like Aalto or Diva, before doing these multi-track recordings with the modular system, but it‘s all a bit tiresome.

I would like to bow my head to the brilliant mind of Tubbutec. Thank you very much! My modular system is now complete. This is a very satisfying feeling, to know that there‘s nothing more to add, nothing more to search for. I can now fully concentrate all my energy to music only. This is a great day for me. Perfect timing as well, in winter, with more time for music exploration.


Thank you for the overview and analysis of the polyphonic output of uTune. I am of the opinion the use of xenharmonic ideas are best revealed with the intervals heard at once in either chords or sustained linear tones. The psychoacoustic nature of the intervals becomes evident only when placed against each other most of the time. I too have had some rather disappointing and frustrating moments pursuing the holy grail of non-octave tuning and the modular system.

I've been using Scala, LMSO and Max Magic Microtuner with the computer and various MIDI to CV modules for many years. The closest I've got to usable custom control is a programmable scale quantizer (synthesizers.com Q172) but it is a single octave (or maximum eight step within 1V spread) and only monophonic. I also have the MOTM 650 four channel MIDI to CV module which can send MIDI pitch bend data for micro tuning but all these things are tedious work-arounds for what I have been wanting to do with the modular... POLYPHONIC micro-tuning with finely controlled non-octave scales.

Even just intonation is terribly difficult to do correctly with MIDI pitch bend or MIDI Tuning Standard for most MIDI to CV modules. I have started to buy Yarns a few times for the polyphonic 4 voice setup but stopped when considering the difficult access to defined scales. It is possible but not nearly as easily as with the uTune module and the SD card.

I've been watching this thread and reading since the inception of this module but your review has the most useful detail about using the two channel nature to accomplish duo-phonic patching. It seems like if this will generate two "voices" of CV/Gate in the chosen scale then I might need a couple of these modules to do real polyphonic chords and so forth.

Thanks again for the review. Any work you wish to share demonstrating duo-phonic linear music would be welcomed.
timoka
kindredlost wrote:
It seems like if this will generate two "voices" of CV/Gate in the chosen scale then I might need a couple of these modules to do real polyphonic chords and so forth.


there will be an expander for more than two voices.
kindredlost
I am hoping so. Until then, only two of these will provide the polyphony I need.

Any time line on the expander yet?

EDIT: Ordered one from PerfectCircuit. w00t
tonymasiello
kindredlost wrote:

I am of the opinion the use of xenharmonic ideas are best revealed with the intervals heard at once in either chords or sustained linear tones. The psychoacoustic nature of the intervals becomes evident only when placed against each other most of the time. I too have had some rather disappointing and frustrating moments pursuing the holy grail of non-octave tuning and the modular system.


That is an interesting observation, and is very much inline with my own experiences. I have used various methods to attempt to achieve xenharmonic results, including stacking recorded tracks and generous use of delay. I have come to believe that some of what is perceived as a dissonant interval depends on the complexity of the waveform and the various subharmonics within it. String instruments (or recreations of them) tend to sound the most dissonant. The purer waveforms generated by an oscillator or percussion type instruments, tend to sound less dissonant.
tubbutec
sizone wrote:
so how does one hook up the utune to a +/- 15v supply? I don't remember seeing any traditional connectors. just go through the eurorack style header?


Yes correct

kindredlost wrote:
I am hoping so. Until then, only two of these will provide the polyphony I need.
Any time line on the expander yet?


Yes, you can add multiple expanders, hope to release it this spring.
mzero
Very cool module I am now saving for... Have to sell a couple things but it's pretty exciting... Also fascinating to watch the development over the course of this thread... Thanks!!!!
Knights Who Say Neve
Will it be possible to apply precise offsets to cv outputs? For instance, have output one correspond to the note input, have the 2nd out be at 2.51 times the frequency of the first, the third (w/ expander) at times 4.08 of the original frequency, etc.

The use case here is FM patches with multiple oscillators. By routing the offset CVs to different oscillators you could get precise tuning ratios, along with the benefit of the uTune's VCO calibration for pitch stability.
tubbutec
Knights Who Say Neve wrote:
Will it be possible to apply precise offsets to cv outputs? For instance, have output one correspond to the note input, have the 2nd out be at 2.51 times the frequency of the first, the third (w/ expander) at times 4.08 of the original frequency, etc.

The use case here is FM patches with multiple oscillators. By routing the offset CVs to different oscillators you could get precise tuning ratios, along with the benefit of the uTune's VCO calibration for pitch stability.


A ratio of 2.51 is just an offset of 1593,2 cent
4.08 is 2434,3 cent
Just put this in the scale editor and you will get the correct voltages at the outputs.
You can convert any ratio x to cents with this formula:

cents = 1200*log2(x)
Knights Who Say Neve
tubbutec wrote:
Knights Who Say Neve wrote:
Will it be possible to apply precise offsets to cv outputs? For instance, have output one correspond to the note input, have the 2nd out be at 2.51 times the frequency of the first, the third (w/ expander) at times 4.08 of the original frequency, etc.

The use case here is FM patches with multiple oscillators. By routing the offset CVs to different oscillators you could get precise tuning ratios, along with the benefit of the uTune's VCO calibration for pitch stability.


A ratio of 2.51 is just an offset of 1593,2 cent
4.08 is 2434,3 cent
Just put this in the scale editor and you will get the correct voltages at the outputs.
You can convert any ratio x to cents with this formula:

cents = 1200*log2(x)


Cool, but where do I put in the per-output offsets? I don't see any menu option to add a fixed offset to an individual CV output.
sizone
I think the idea is that you apply the offset to the scala file. that is, you have tuning1.scl then you make tuning2.scl consisting of every ratio in tuning 1 *1200*log2 + offest. you would still need a second utune to load the second tuning to as I don't see any way to assign different tunings to the separate cv outs.

looking over that, that also seems like a really cumbersome (and expensive) way to do something fairly simple.
tubbutec
Hi,
did not quite get what you were trying to do.

An offset per channel sounds like a good idea, I will put it on the TODO list.

It is currently not possible to load different scales for each channel, but that also will be implemented soon.

In the meantime I guess you could maybe use the tuner:

Set channel 1 to some frequency (say 100 Hz) via pitch knob on the VCO.
Set channel 2 to desired higher frequency (say 251Hz) using the vco pitch knob.

You can now send the same cv into both µTune inputs and will get the correct ratio.
timoka
tubbutec wrote:

An offset per channel sounds like a good idea, I will put it on the TODO list.

It is currently not possible to load different scales for each channel, but that also will be implemented soon.


an offset per channel would be really nice!
Phil999
hmm, that made me thinking ... for what purpose could different tunings per channel be used?

sizone wrote:
I think the idea is that you apply the offset to the scala file. that is, you have tuning1.scl then you make tuning2.scl consisting of every ratio in tuning 1 *1200*log2 + offest.

could you expand this thought? I also don't have a clue what you are hoping to achieve with this.

One possible application I can imagine could be the following: tuning1 for the main FM'd oscillator, and tuning2 that is related or derived from tuning1 for the modulating FM oscillator, in order to not only have fundamental microtonal temperament, but also specific overtones or harmonic content. That would be pretty far out if it worked. However I have my doubts.

But is it this kind of advanced stuff you guys are after? I would love to hear why you demand for different tunings and offsets per channel. The idea behind, the musical context.
tubbutec
Tony Dubshot shows his µTune and some early impressions on the Noodlefest in Rotterdam. He also shows quite a lot of different scales:

Phil999
aw, that is quite a disencouraging video.

You know, one has to spend some time with these scales. Especially if one has no deep background in music theory. Like, I dare to say, most of modular synthesiser users. Including myself.

I spent about 5 years with only few (about 3-5) microtonal 12-tone scales because I wanted to keep the traditional keyboard layout for convenience. Each scale has its own mood and character that has to be learned in a musical context (for example you cannot simply transpose a melody x semitones higher, like in 12-edo, the music can fall apart quickly when you do so). Then I experimented with 19-tone just intonation for about a year, using a Lemur template with hexagonal keyboard layout. What always kept me interested was the natural overtone series and scales from traditional music. Because with these you can't go wrong as long as you don't transpose randomly. I don't like transposition (modulation) of melodies very much anyway, it appears a bit cheap to me (yes, also J.S.Bach and much classic music).

Remember: you can run some random voltage into uTune and scan through the preset scales and remember those that sound nice (or weird of you prefer), but you'll hardly have a chance to understand and know what you're doing. If you want to use a microtonal scale and want to have control over tonality, you have to compose for that specific scale and root. Or find something per happy accident, but stick to the root note, or modulate with care.

This video only shows what the module can do in an uninspired and uneducated way. I don't do videos myself, but for the first time I feel the need to make one just to show some of the beautiful, magical side of xenharmonics. I'll try to get something simple together in the coming weeks.
tubbutec
Phil999 wrote:


Remember: you can run some random voltage into uTune and scan through the preset scales and remember those that sound nice (or weird of you prefer), but you'll hardly have a chance to understand and know what you're doing. If you want to use a microtonal scale and want to have control over tonality, you have to compose for that specific scale and root. Or find something per happy accident, but stick to the root note, or modulate with care.

This video only shows what the module can do in an uninspired and uneducated way. I don't do videos myself, but for the first time I feel the need to make one just to show some of the beautiful, magical side of xenharmonics. I'll try to get something simple together in the coming weeks.


Hi Phil,
I agree. Just playing random notes will not fully reflect the character of any scale. This is even true for 12TET and of course also for any other scale.
However please bear in mind that Tony just wanted to quickly show what µTune can do. When this video was filmed back in September, µTune had just been released and Tony was the first customer (#003). He did not really have time to prepare anything for this demonstration, even the user manual was in a very early state.
I am very thankful that he did nevertheless take some time to demo the module and showed a bit what it can do.

It would of course be absolutely amazing to see a video of you showing some scales and tunings. Very much looking forward to this!!
sizone
Phil999 wrote:
hmm, that made me thinking ... for what purpose could different tunings per channel be used?

sizone wrote:
I think the idea is that you apply the offset to the scala file. that is, you have tuning1.scl then you make tuning2.scl consisting of every ratio in tuning 1 *1200*log2 + offest.

could you expand this thought? I also don't have a clue what you are hoping to achieve with this.

One possible application I can imagine could be the following: tuning1 for the main FM'd oscillator, and tuning2 that is related or derived from tuning1 for the modulating FM oscillator, in order to not only have fundamental microtonal temperament, but also specific overtones or harmonic content. That would be pretty far out if it worked. However I have my doubts.


I was going to suggest that read the two posts prior to mine, but you figured it out for yourself.

as far as "advanced stuff", you aren't going to be able to come up with any novel applications for a feature that isn't implemented.

the obvious application for being able to have two concurrent tunings is that you're still limited to a midi note range of 128. if you're working in a tuning that has, say 43 tones it's nice to be able to split it into subsets so that you can have instruments with more than a 3 octave range.

so little has been done in terms of microtonal architecture for synthesizers that the empirical test of whether a feature is useless, neat or necessary for a tuner to have has yet to be performed.
Knights Who Say Neve
tubbutec wrote:
Hi,
did not quite get what you were trying to do.

An offset per channel sounds like a good idea, I will put it on the TODO list.

It is currently not possible to load different scales for each channel, but that also will be implemented soon.

In the meantime I guess you could maybe use the tuner:

Set channel 1 to some frequency (say 100 Hz) via pitch knob on the VCO.
Set channel 2 to desired higher frequency (say 251Hz) using the vco pitch knob.

You can now send the same cv into both µTune inputs and will get the correct ratio.


Thank you. And of course tuning the VCO's will work, but it would be easier to tune the vcos in unison and then apply a precise (digitally controlled) offset from the module, then to retune the VCOs. If a particular ratio set sounds good with a tuning, then scales could be saved with the offset applied, as sizone suggested.

Applying a different scale to a carrier and a modulator will be an interesting experiment when that ability is added.
Phil999
great infos from you all. I have a feeling 2018 will be a year of precious advancements in this area.

Subsets of larger octave divisions is an important path to go I think. For example, the subsets can be broken down to the 12-key layout we have on our keyboards, to make playing and sequencing easier.
Knights Who Say Neve
Phil999 wrote:
great infos from you all. I have a feeling 2018 will be a year of precious advancements in this area.

Subsets of larger octave divisions is an important path to go I think. For example, the subsets can be broken down to the 12-key layout we have on our keyboards, to make playing and sequencing easier.


I will gently suggest, that perhaps a standard keyboard is not the best tool for exploring alternate tunings?

Personally, I think the blank canvas approach of something like a Monome Grid would be a better fit for the microtonal space. (Granted, it's not velocity or pressure sensitive and therefore fairly unsuitable for virtuoso playing, but I'm no virtuoso).
sizone
Knights Who Say Neve wrote:


I will gently suggest, that perhaps a standard keyboard is not the best tool for exploring alternate tunings?

Personally, I think the blank canvas approach of something like a Monome Grid would be a better fit for the microtonal space. (Granted, it's not velocity or pressure sensitive and therefore fairly unsuitable for virtuoso playing, but I'm no virtuoso).


I would second that. Touchosc or Lemur on an ipad is also a pretty good way to go, but then you lose out on any kind of tactile feel in addition to velocity and a.t..

https://ridlabs.wordpress.com/2016/07/03/tablet-remappable-midi-keyboa rd-interface/?iframe=true&theme_preview=true

if there were just a little more flexibility in how the linnsturment could be set up, it would be pretty fantastic.

there's also something to be said for picking a tuning then hacking up a keyboard to make it match as elaine walker does for bohlen-pierce.
Knights Who Say Neve
As a bass player what I'd really like is a CV/Gate pickup that is accurate with fretless and lacks noticeable lag, but AFAIK there is no such animal.
kindredlost
Knights Who Say Neve wrote:
I will gently suggest, that perhaps a standard keyboard is not the best tool for exploring alternate tunings?

Personally, I think the blank canvas approach of something like a Monome Grid would be a better fit for the microtonal space. (Granted, it's not velocity or pressure sensitive and therefore fairly unsuitable for virtuoso playing, but I'm no virtuoso).


Totally agree except I'd STRONGLY encourage it. Even then, I still haven't done so myself. I think it's due to only working in alternate tunings periodically. Not something I do all the time.

It's a PITA to map out 33 note scales on the typical keyboard but I don't own any other kind for whatever unknown reason/excuse. I've been at this for a decade or so but still haven't become serious enough to invest in one. Pretty lame. zombie

I guess if you constrain your efforts to something with 12 notes then things are halfway workable, but probably less compelling or interesting and tend to be more musically/socially accessible. As an example...

tubbutec
kindredlost wrote:




Very impressive, thank you for posting this !
strangeowl
Any updated details about the expander release? :*

Just ordered the unit at schneider's btw. Looking forward to it, but I do really want the 4ch operation smile
kindredlost
I am having too much fun with this module.

A couple more to share. The first is a pentatonic Javanese scale and the second is a 9tET study. The first is a single live take and the second is multi-tracked.

Thanks again for the wonderful module Tobi!



[s]https://soundcloud.com/david-ryle/clockspring[/s]
11ish
nice pieces, thanks for posting! thumbs up
kindredlost
11ish wrote:
nice pieces, thanks for posting! thumbs up


My pleasure. I'm having a blast with the module. Opens new realms that were harder to get to otherwise. Looking forward to the expander. For me the key is the use of polyphony.
Knights Who Say Neve
In scale edit, would it be possible to set the pitch of a note by reading the voltage at a cv input?

I make ad-hoc scales by ear on a Meng Qi Voltage Memory. If I could plug the output of that into the utune and have it read the voltages, the ad-hoc scales could be saved for later use.
tubbutec
Knights Who Say Neve wrote:
In scale edit, would it be possible to set the pitch of a note by reading the voltage at a cv input?

I make ad-hoc scales by ear on a Meng Qi Voltage Memory. If I could plug the output of that into the utune and have it read the voltages, the ad-hoc scales could be saved for later use.


Hi,
we will add a function that lets you select the note to edit based on the cv input.
The feature you are describing is not possible hoever, because the CV in resolution is not high enough.
tonymasiello
Hi David,

There pieces are really good. I enjoyed listening to both. You have quite an impressive rig! At the very end of the video, you showed your monitor running what looked like some type of microtonal editing software. Could you share what that software is?

Thanks!

kindredlost wrote:
A couple more to share. The first is a pentatonic Javanese scale and the second is a 9tET study. The first is a single live take and the second is multi-tracked.
Knights Who Say Neve
tubbutec wrote:
Knights Who Say Neve wrote:
In scale edit, would it be possible to set the pitch of a note by reading the voltage at a cv input?

I make ad-hoc scales by ear on a Meng Qi Voltage Memory. If I could plug the output of that into the utune and have it read the voltages, the ad-hoc scales could be saved for later use.


Hi,
we will add a function that lets you select the note to edit based on the cv input.
The feature you are describing is not possible hoever, because the CV in resolution is not high enough.


Fair enough, and thank you for the quick and unambiguous reply. Would it be possible to toggle the display in scale edit to show the output voltage instead of cents? Then at least I could measure a voltage externally and then enter it into the scale manually. The voltage could be in hex format if there isn't enough room for decimal.
tubbutec
Knights Who Say Neve wrote:
tubbutec wrote:
Knights Who Say Neve wrote:
In scale edit, would it be possible to set the pitch of a note by reading the voltage at a cv input?

I make ad-hoc scales by ear on a Meng Qi Voltage Memory. If I could plug the output of that into the utune and have it read the voltages, the ad-hoc scales could be saved for later use.


Hi,
we will add a function that lets you select the note to edit based on the cv input.
The feature you are describing is not possible hoever, because the CV in resolution is not high enough.


Fair enough, and thank you for the quick and unambiguous reply. Would it be possible to toggle the display in scale edit to show the output voltage instead of cents? Then at least I could measure a voltage externally and then enter it into the scale manually. The voltage could be in hex format if there isn't enough room for decimal.


I don't quite like the idea of displaying voltage in the scale editor, because the two units are not exactly interchangeable:
Usually (1V/Oct) you can calculate voltage from cents via this simple formula:

Voltage = Cents / 1200
or
Cents = Voltage*1200

This is not quite true for the cents displayed in the editor, because:
- Repeating intervals (octave) may be added
- VCO calibration changing the voltage
- transpose
- pitch bend

You can use the above formula if you don't apply any of these of course.

I would like to suggest another approach to your workflow however: Don't create the scales by ear on the Meng Qi Voltage Memory, but rather use the scale editor. Any changes made there will be instantly passed to the output. So you can edit note by note just by listening and will have your scale ready to be saved at the end.
Knights Who Say Neve
tubbutec wrote:
Knights Who Say Neve wrote:
tubbutec wrote:
Knights Who Say Neve wrote:
In scale edit, would it be possible to set the pitch of a note by reading the voltage at a cv input?

I make ad-hoc scales by ear on a Meng Qi Voltage Memory. If I could plug the output of that into the utune and have it read the voltages, the ad-hoc scales could be saved for later use.


Hi,
we will add a function that lets you select the note to edit based on the cv input.
The feature you are describing is not possible hoever, because the CV in resolution is not high enough.


Fair enough, and thank you for the quick and unambiguous reply. Would it be possible to toggle the display in scale edit to show the output voltage instead of cents? Then at least I could measure a voltage externally and then enter it into the scale manually. The voltage could be in hex format if there isn't enough room for decimal.


I don't quite like the idea of displaying voltage in the scale editor, because the two units are not exactly interchangeable:
Usually (1V/Oct) you can calculate voltage from cents via this simple formula:

Voltage = Cents / 1200
or
Cents = Voltage*1200

This is not quite true for the cents displayed in the editor, because:
- Repeating intervals (octave) may be added
- VCO calibration changing the voltage
- transpose
- pitch bend

You can use the above formula if you don't apply any of these of course.

I would like to suggest another approach to your workflow however: Don't create the scales by ear on the Meng Qi Voltage Memory, but rather use the scale editor. Any changes made there will be instantly passed to the output. So you can edit note by note just by listening and will have your scale ready to be saved at the end.


The Meng Qi doesn't have a quantized 12TET output though. The voltage outputs are unquantized. So I can make a scale in the utune, but I won't know where to adjust the knobs to on the Meng Qi to be able to trigger the right intervals. Although I suppose I could adjust the Meng Qi knobs and keep re-triggering until I find the scale steps i want....but I won't know what steps in the utune that I'm triggering, which makes it difficult to edit. The feature add you mentioned earlier of selecting a step to edit via the CV input would help a great deal with this.
tubbutec
Knights Who Say Neve wrote:

The Meng Qi doesn't have a quantized 12TET output though. The voltage outputs are unquantized

Even better!! Because this way the µTune can quantize the incoming cv with any notes/V you desire.
The scale editor shows the note currently played on channel 1 (as a small arrow on the left side). So you can see which note you currently hear.
And yes a 'learn' feature that selects the current input note as editing note is in development.
dharmatronix
Just got my uTune yesterday but the SD card was blank, wondering if someone would kindly share the factory content?
While I plan to upload some from cpu and create with editor eventually, for day one just wanted to do a QuickStart to try and get to know the new module.

Would be greatly appreciated, thanks!
tubbutec
Hi you can find the SD card content here:

Https://tubbutec.de/scale-packs/
dharmatronix
tubbutec wrote:
Hi you can find the SD card content here:

Https://tubbutec.de/scale-packs/


Sweet, Thank you, apologies if I overlooked it on your site but I could only the firmware earlier.

Looking forward to getting into this tonight!
six_minds
any news on the expander?
tubbutec
six_minds wrote:
any news on the expander?


Software developed progress is good., hardware finished and front panels ordered. We are confident we can keep our deadline and release the expander this spring
BootUpRootDown
Oh man I definitely need this.
tubbutec
thresholdpeople
screaming goo yo screaming goo yo screaming goo yo screaming goo yo
Knights Who Say Neve
applause applause applause applause applause

Sumtiple is my favorite new word
monads
Man I missed of missed this one!! I just ordered! Does this mean I can ditch my uScale II??

Looking forward to the Expander as well!
adnauseam
monads wrote:
Man I missed of missed this one!! I just ordered! Does this mean I can ditch my uScale II??

Looking forward to the Expander as well!


The uTune is pretty awesome and has a TON of scales that the uScale won't have. it does however, lack a certain hands-on playability the uScale has.

Trade-offs!
monads
adnauseam wrote:
monads wrote:
Man I missed of missed this one!! I just ordered! Does this mean I can ditch my uScale II??

Looking forward to the Expander as well!


The uTune is pretty awesome and has a TON of scales that the uScale won't have. it does however, lack a certain hands-on playability the uScale has.

Trade-offs!


Thanks!! That's what I was thinking. I'll probably move my uScale to a mobile rig since playability/small rack space are important vs. bigger studio use and the uTune integration with such.
kindredlost
tubbutec wrote:

Looking good exclamation and I'm looking forward to adding these.

I am assuming we can put them on the left side of the main uTune module. I think it will prove to be more useful to not block access to the knob and button by the cables on the expansion modules.
tubbutec
kindredlost wrote:

I am assuming we can put them on the left side of the main uTune module. I think it will prove to be more useful to not block access to the knob and button by the cables on the expansion modules.


Yes you can place the Expanders freely, this is just an example
monads
Do the Expanders require power?? Or are they daisy chained to each other and the only power header required is the uTune?? Want to confirm as I plan my rack around!
tonymasiello
This is a great question. If each expander requires it's own power, this will become a limitation factor for just about any case...

monads wrote:
Do the Expanders require power?? Or are they daisy chained to each other and the only power header required is the uTune?? Want to confirm as I plan my rack around!
Knights Who Say Neve
tonymasiello wrote:
This is a great question. If each expander requires it's own power, this will become a limitation factor for just about any case...

monads wrote:
Do the Expanders require power?? Or are they daisy chained to each other and the only power header required is the uTune?? Want to confirm as I plan my rack around!


Or just get a multi-tap power cable, like the ones that come with the tiptop HEK.
tubbutec
monads wrote:
Do the Expanders require power?? Or are they daisy chained to each other and the only power header required is the uTune?? Want to confirm as I plan my rack around!


The expanders are powered directly form the µTune, no additional power needed.
zed888
What about the mixer? Is it a stand-alone module?
tubbutec
zed888 wrote:
What about the mixer? Is it a stand-alone module?


Yes, that is correct
monads
tubbutec wrote:
monads wrote:
Do the Expanders require power?? Or are they daisy chained to each other and the only power header required is the uTune?? Want to confirm as I plan my rack around!


The expanders are powered directly form the µTune, no additional power needed.


Awesome!!! Thanks for the confirmation!!
monads
When are the Expanders expected to be available? Curious since I'm allotting some space for.....
tubbutec
monads wrote:
When are the Expanders expected to be available? Curious since I'm allotting some space for.....


We are doing our best to meet our goal of finishing the expanders this spring.
monads
Awesome! Thanks for the update!!
tubbutec
Video now online:

tubbutec
kindredlost
A good review and even better example of use of the module in context.
sizone
which reminded me that the utune is a pretty accurate frequency counter. which obviated an immediate need for me to buy a frequency counter.
monads
tubbutec wrote:

We are doing our best to meet our goal of finishing the expanders this spring.


Any latest update news on the expanders???
six_minds
another bump for the same question???
tubbutec
No. Still working on the expanders, writing code and making sure everything works smoothly. Hardware will go into production as soon as prototype is completely running and all tests ok.
Yes, takes longer than anticipated. Sorry.
williamjturkel
I'm excited for the expanders, but really enjoying my uTune in the meantime!
monads
Thanks for the update and understandable!!! Best to do it right!!!
sizone
semi spurious request, but if you could run off a few expanders with a panel width of 36.2 mm, it would make mounting a utune and an expander into a frac case much easier.
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