TWO59 SHAPER (Building Thread) by FEEDBACK [PCB UPDATE]

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TWO59 SHAPER (Building Thread) by FEEDBACK [PCB UPDATE]

Post by strat-1 » Sun Oct 16, 2016 11:00 pm

www.feedbackmodules.com

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[UPDATE}
We added the buffer which resolves the 5semitone glitch on the PCB rev2.0 There is no need to make the ugly correction anymore.
For those who have bought one of the kits, but still didn't built the PCB, you can buy only the REV2.0 Brd2 from the store.

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FOR ORDERING AND PROJECT INFORMATIONS USE THE MAIN THREAD :
viewtopic.php?t=169990

TWO59 SHAPER is the heart of the TWO59 project, being responsible for the unique timbres and modulations.
This Module works in conjunction with a pair of TWO59 VCOs, one working as a main oscillator and the other as a modulation source.
This complex oscillator is capable to create timbres based on frequency modulation, amplitude modulation, timbre modulation or any two or three processes
at the same time.
The connection between the modules is done using two 10 core ribbon cables.This is a highly complex build, so take your time studying this manual before building,
Some of the details may help a lot in the building process.

We tried to make the whole experience as easy as possible and give as much information as needed to avoid confusion.
We also provide additional documents like BOM lists (PDF and XLS), images with part values, and photos of the construction in various stages.
Feel free to download the whole pack and have fun.

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Audio demos :

The sound clicks are from computer latency, not from the modules :)
Somehow I forgot to record the ramp wave. I will record it soon.

https://soundcloud.com/strat1/two59-square
https://soundcloud.com/strat1/two59-triangle
https://soundcloud.com/strat1/two59-sine
https://soundcloud.com/strat1/two59-shaper-basics
https://soundcloud.com/strat1/two59-shaper-modulations
https://soundcloud.com/strat1/two59-two59s-on-the-bread

This demo uses the power of 2 Full modules and one additional VCO (5VCO's in total)
-The starting bass line panned to the left speaker is a triangle wave passing to a jupiter8 filter module, to know how will sound affected by a VCF.
-The second line panned more to the right is the ouput of one shaper directly to a VCA. I turn the timbre slowly in various points of the song.
-For the other two lines I used some spring reverb.
-The ending is with pitch (fm) modulation ON.
-All the VCO's stayed in tune for a period of 3 hours until I closed the system.

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Last edited by strat-1 on Sat Apr 04, 2020 7:49 am, edited 14 times in total.

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Post by fuzzbass » Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:57 am

Woo hoo first builder foolish enough to post on the build thread! Been sitting on this kit for over a month...

Some BOM notes:
3x 100R should be 4x
1x 220R omitted
1x 330R omitted
3x 680R should be 2x
1x 4K99 should be 0x
1x 220p omitted
1x 1N5819 should be 2x
5x CA3130 omitted
1x CD4066 should be 2x
6x Jumper 2.54mm could be 7x depending on preference
RE: 8x 12MM M3 spacers: fit and finish will be improved with 8x 11mm male/female spacers + 4x M3x6 screws + 4x M3 hex nuts. This makes the space between boards tighter, but everything fits.


RE: CA3130. I guess these are chosen in lieu ye olde CA3160 in the original schematic. I have some alternate single op amps, which I'll try:

TL071
CA3140
AD711

I ordered some Harris CA3160s from a trusted [ut]source on ebay, as a hedge. These were actually cheaper than Intersil CA3130s at Mouser.

[edit] I started with AD711 and no caps between pins 1-8. Later, I added the caps and switched to CA3140. I could not hear, nor see on the scope any difference. Although I did not try, I'll bet TL071s would be fine too. My guess is Buchla selected CA3160 way back when his alternative was the lowly 741.
Last edited by fuzzbass on Tue Dec 27, 2016 3:33 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Post by strat-1 » Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:16 pm

fuzzbass wrote:Woo hoo first builder foolish enough to post on the build thread! Been sitting on this kit for over a month...

Some BOM notes (i'll update this post as I progress)
5x CA3130 omitted
1x CD4066 should be 2x

RE: CA3130. I guess these are chosen in lieu ye olde CA3160 in the original schematic. I have some alternate single op amps, which I'll try:

TL071
CA3140
AD711

I ordered some Harris CA3160s from a trusted [ut]source on ebay, as a hedge. These were actually cheaper than Intersil CA3130s at Mouser.
If you put CA3160 instead of the CA3130, omit the 47P capacitors noted as fc. This is the difference between the two ic's, CA3160 is frequency compensated.

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Post by yan6 » Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:33 am

Did you have a source for the DP3T switch

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Post by strat-1 » Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:14 pm

yan6 wrote:Did you have a source for the DP3T switch
Farnell : 9473530
Mouser : 108-1MD3T1B1M1QE-EVX

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Post by fuzzbass » Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:01 am

[updates added to BOM notes above]

Build finished and appears to work, at least minimally. I have questions:

1. C1: Schematic says 2u2 Polystyrene, BOM says 1u. I have never seen a polystyrene such high value - it must be a big cap. I currently have in there a 2u2 polypropylene (film boxed) cap. Can you comment on the BOM substitution and how critical this value is? My primitive ability to analyze a schematic leads me to think this is just filtering DC (?).

2. Calibration: Timbre Adjust:
A: Can you clarify what you mean by "Shaper pot"?
B: I see no folding at final output until I increase the Order pot (regardless of position of Symmetry and Timbre pots). The instructions seem to say that Order should be at minimum. After reading this section through several times, I'm left wondering if this procedure should be performed with Order at maximum, and not minimum. Can you comment? [edit] disregard this question for now - found that I had swapped the 5K and 100K trimmers. Not sure everything is debugged yet, but scope results are making more sense now.

3. Scope diagrams:
A: With respect to Point 4, where should Order and Timbre be set?
B: With respect to Point 5, where should Order and Symmetry be set?

Thanks!
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Post by strat-1 » Tue Dec 27, 2016 10:32 am

UPDATE :

Thank you fuzzbass for pointing me the missing values from the BOM and manual.
I corrected all the pointed values and some typo mistakes in BOM and manual.
Being such a complex project it's possible I missed something, even with these last corrections. Please tell me if you find any error in the build.
I thank you all for helping me revise this project.
Also I thank you all for all the good words I receive in private messages about my projects.

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Post by strat-1 » Tue Dec 27, 2016 10:41 am

fuzzbass wrote:[updates added to BOM notes above]

Build finished and appears to work, at least minimally. I have questions:

1. C1: Schematic says 2u2 Polystyrene, BOM says 1u. I have never seen a polystyrene such high value - it must be a big cap. I currently have in there a 2u2 polypropylene (film boxed) cap. Can you comment on the BOM substitution and how critical this value is? My primitive ability to analyze a schematic leads me to think this is just filtering DC (?).

2. Calibration: Timbre Adjust:
A: Can you clarify what you mean by "Shaper pot"?
B: I see no folding at final output until I increase the Order pot (regardless of position of Symmetry and Timbre pots). The instructions seem to say that Order should be at minimum. After reading this section through several times, I'm left wondering if this procedure should be performed with Order at maximum, and not minimum. Can you comment? [edit] disregard this question for now - found that I had swapped the 5K and 100K trimmers. Not sure everything is debugged yet, but scope results are making more sense now.

3. Scope diagrams:
A: With respect to Point 4, where should Order and Timbre be set?
B: With respect to Point 5, where should Order and Symmetry be set?

Thanks!
Sorry for the late reply, with this holidays I was off the computer for some time.

1. I use 1U polyester in place of 2.2U polypropilene. This cap is not critical, I just put it in the schematic with this value to preserve the original schematic. I tested the FM section with 1U and 2.2U, with polyester and polystyrene, and I found no difference with my ear and oscilloscope. I think I will redraw the schematic with 1U in the future to avoid confusion.
2. I will correct in the manual : Shaper pot. Correct is Timbre pot.

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Post by fuzzbass » Tue Dec 27, 2016 1:15 pm

Its WORKING!

The Shaper should be called The Interociter. You will know its working when you make contact with the extraterrestrials. Totally mesmerizing on the scope too! I have no idea whether this is calibrated like a real 259, but it sure sounds amazing.

All three are very thirsty too, with all four modulation switches engaged, it is drawing 215ma on the V+ rail.

I didn't find any problems with the build process, just some BOM variances.

Fantastic project, Strat! Its racked right next to your 106 Chorus. Thank you. :yay: :yay: :yay:
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Post by strat-1 » Tue Dec 27, 2016 5:03 pm

fuzzbass wrote:Its WORKING!

The Shaper should be called The Interociter. You will know its working when you make contact with the extraterrestrials. Totally mesmerizing on the scope too! I have no idea whether this is calibrated like a real 259, but it sure sounds amazing.

All three are very thirsty too, with all four modulation switches engaged, it is drawing 215ma on the V+ rail.

I didn't find any problems with the build process, just some BOM variances.

Fantastic project, Strat! Its racked right next to your 106 Chorus. Thank you. :yay: :yay: :yay:
I built several shapers using this manual and all the shapers sound the same.
Of course there are small variations because of the VTLs, transistors etc..
But the functionality is the same on all the shapers I built, so I'm sure yours sound as it should :)

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Post by fuzzbass » Wed Dec 28, 2016 9:01 am

I have a stable of traditional and wavetable oscillators, and various filters. I have been reading for years about the philosophical differences of additive, versus subtractive synthesis, and the concepts are straightforward.

Now I have the basis of additive synthesis in my collection. In combination with a simple rise/fall transient generator and a low pass gate, finally, I can HEAR IT. :*:
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Post by CliffordMilk » Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:28 am

I've had mine in the rack for a week. Still haven't got round to calibrating it yet as every time I switch it on I end up exploring for an hour :) Incredible!

Working on building another :) Thanks for such a fantastic project.

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Post by CliffordMilk » Thu Dec 29, 2016 4:43 am

For this boards you don't have to solder together the two pins of the connector, as explained in the manual's errata.
I think I may have missed this. I have the v1 boards and docs but can't find this reference. Would someone please let me know which pins this refers to?

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Post by strat-1 » Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:21 am

CliffordMilk wrote:
For this boards you don't have to solder together the two pins of the connector, as explained in the manual's errata.
I think I may have missed this. I have the v1 boards and docs but can't find this reference. Would someone please let me know which pins this refers to?
The last page in the VCO manual.
This error doesn't affect the VCO functionality.
If you don't correct this you will not have sync lock when you activate the lock switch on the shaper.
Have in mind lock switch is syncing main osc to moudulation osc, you will not see (hear) the results on the main osc ouptus or on the shaper outputs. The results are present to the osc used as modulator. (the orginal 259 is working in the same way)
Interesting effects can be obtain when you modulate main osc and activate lock switch.
I'm working on a visual reference chart for a better understanding of the module.

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Post by CliffordMilk » Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:49 am

Got it - thanks. I must have misplaced the last page of the VCO manual. All done :)

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Post by CliffordMilk » Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:03 pm

I have one set sounding perfect but am a little stuck debugging the second. I'm getting no pitch mod at all and very little in terms of timbre mod.

I've checked all trimmer and resistor values and reflowed all joints. All ICs are correct.

Can anyone think of a likely cause?

Thanks i advance.

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Post by strat-1 » Sat Jan 07, 2017 4:08 pm

CliffordMilk wrote:I have one set sounding perfect but am a little stuck debugging the second. I'm getting no pitch mod at all and very little in terms of timbre mod.

I've checked all trimmer and resistor values and reflowed all joints. All ICs are correct.

Can anyone think of a likely cause?

Thanks i advance.
My advice is to make a set of debug cables like in the manual. This will help you to debug the boards independently. Look at the schematics and follow the signals routes. (if you have a scope)
If you have one working set is good, because you can compare them. Check the signal and voltages at each ic and transistor ans see the differences.

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Post by fuzzbass » Sat Jan 07, 2017 8:54 pm

CliffordMilk wrote:I've had mine in the rack for a week. Still haven't got round to calibrating it yet as every time I switch it on I end up exploring for an hour :) Incredible!

Working on building another :) Thanks for such a fantastic project.
Concur. It is ear opening. If you connect a modulation source to the timbre CV input, you will instantly be in territory alien to your typical VCO. The transistors will start to sound like sheets of wood, tubes of brass, filaments of steel.
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Post by NiteEagle » Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:11 pm

Build is under way. Nothing unusual on the control board. I decided to go with yellow leds all around. I felt it looked better with the panel color scheme. Knobs are temporary for now.

After looking noticing how tight R4 was to the IC socket, I decided to mount the socket first to avoid a struggle with the socket later.

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Post by fuzzbass » Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:34 pm

NiteEagle wrote:Build is under way. Nothing unusual on the control board. I decided to go with yellow leds all around. I felt it looked better with the panel color scheme. Knobs are temporary for now.

After looking noticing how tight R4 was to the IC socket, I decided to mount the socket first to avoid a struggle with the socket later.

Image
Ya, watch the soldering at the pads for a the header for select jumpers next to LF13331 pins 3-7. Some of these pins are common with the header, but at least one is not. They are very close together and its easy to bridge them - I know.
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Post by strat-1 » Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:46 am

I added two new pdfs to the project. One pdf is an operation manual with visual explanation. The other pdf is a reference for the input signal connectors.
So if you want to buy only the shaper you should respect this voltages and waveforms.

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Post by NiteEagle » Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:09 am

I think I made a mistake in the build. On page 13 of the build manual there is that trimmer pot that goes next to the header, OR5. It has the value as 20K in the manual. Now that I have moved to the VCOs, I'm short a 20K trimmer and I still have the 50K mini trimmer in the parts box. Where's the error or what did I do wrong? 50K in the BOM or 20K in the manual. Is it going to work correctly with 20K trimmer in OR5?

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Post by strat-1 » Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:08 am

NiteEagle wrote:I think I made a mistake in the build. On page 13 of the build manual there is that trimmer pot that goes next to the header, OR5. It has the value as 20K in the manual. Now that I have moved to the VCOs, I'm short a 20K trimmer and I still have the 50K mini trimmer in the parts box. Where's the error or what did I do wrong? 50K in the BOM or 20K in the manual. Is it going to work correctly with 20K trimmer in OR5?
The error is located in BOM, I found it. Thank you for that.
It should be 20K minitrimm instead of 50K one.
...But you can put the 50K one without a problem. The trimmer will be precise enough to make the calibration.

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Post by batank » Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:34 am

Finally got into the shaper this last weekend and came by the build thread for one question only to realize I had made a grave error.

I used my stock resistors for values 1k, 10k, and 100k -- all which are only 1/4 watt. All other values were ordered from the BOM and are 1/2 watt accordingly, but now I'm faced with possibly desoldering and replacing 53 resistors in a fully populated board :doh:

Will I risk smoking resistors (or worse) by using the underrated ones?

My first reason for dropping by was to clarify the placement of that mini trimmer. I looked at the schematics and the build guide, but just want to be sure of the correct pin placement: pin 1 to OR5 left, pin 3 into the small via-like hole, and pin two extended to OR5's right? **update: WRONG**
Last edited by batank on Mon Apr 10, 2017 2:09 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Post by strat-1 » Mon Apr 10, 2017 1:29 pm

batank wrote:Finally got into the shaper this last weekend and came by the build thread for one question only to realize I had made a grave error.

I used my stock resistors for values 1k, 10k, and 100k -- all which are only 1/4 watt. All other values were ordered from the BOM and are 1/2 watt accordingly, but now I'm faced with possibly desoldering and replacing 53 resistors in a fully populated board :doh:

Will I risk smoking resistors (or worse) by using the underrated ones?

My first reason for dropping by was to clarify the placement of that mini trimmer. I looked at the schematics and the build guide, but just want to be sure of the correct pin placement: pin 1 to OR5 left, pin 3 into the small via-like hole, and pin two extended to OR5's right?
You can use those resistors without a problem. Usually it's better to have a higher power on resistors if you have space, rather than be at limit with them. But as I said you will not have problems, it's matter of mA not a flatiron :)
This is not the right way to put the variable resistor, You have to solder the middle to one of the side terminals, you will end with just two terminals. After that install it in the resistor socket. (ignore the via, it's just a via it's not part of the socket)
Please look again at the pictures in the manual for instructions.
I didn't put this VR on an accessible spot because of the board density, I had to make compromises for some parts. I tried multiple designs, until I reached the best compromise in part placement, noise floor, inductive capacitance etc.

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