Berlin school sound and Oakley modules

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Awazleon92
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Berlin school sound and Oakley modules

Post by Awazleon92 » Mon Nov 14, 2016 7:45 am

Hello,

Progressing step by step inside the modular world, I'm wondering now, how to get the Tangerine Dream or Klaus Schulze sound ?
I know they are mainly using Moog base system but I guess it must be possible to get closer of such sound using Oakley modules.
I'm not talking about the notes used in their sequences but how to get so bright sound behind the Delay.
I have 2 x VCO and one SVCO, TSL filter, VCF filter and ARP4072 filter (ok, not Tony stuff)
I also have the Noise/filter module, Ring modulator, Sample/Slew and 2 ADSR/VCA, one dual VCA.
So I tried various configurations in term of wave signal, ADRS setup, filter setup, etc... I can get a kind of plucked sound but something is missing...
I'll try to record the poor result I reached and post it.
I'm not saying that the Oakley modules are not good, I'm just saying that I'm not good :bang:

Have a nice day
Pascal

JohnLRice

Post by JohnLRice » Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:09 am

I'm sure you'll get there, Oakley modules are awesome sounding! :tu:

Can you post a link to a YouTube clip of the type of sound you are trying emulate? Tangerine Dream and Klaus Schulze created more than one sound I think? :mrgreen:

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kindredlost
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Post by kindredlost » Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:37 am

I will jump the gun and assume you are talking about a step sequence, percussive type of sound...

With what you have listed, use one of the ADSR's to send to the filter. Also use a cv from the step sequencer to the filter.

If your VCF has no attenuators then you will need a mixer to get the proper amount of blend of these two modulation sources for the filter. This is one of the things that go undiscovered by starter systems sometimes. It is a key ingredient to arrive at the subtle detail you are hunting. So use a mixer to set how much of each of these elements you are sending into the filter.

Also, try to blend a percussive envelope shaped note with a background of no envelope shaped, or drone of the notes. Hard to do without enough mixers or VCO's but it does get you there in the same way using a long EG tone and a short percussive EG tone together do.

There are other tricks I have read about over the years to emulate the sound of some of those classic sequencer based tracks. Some include using a mixer or VCA which allows for a gentle overdrive saturation to "mimick" a tape deck. Other things are the shape of the curves in the ADSR. Stacking EG's or series chaining two ADSR's to give more percussive attack transients. The point is that there are many factors accounting for why the tracks sound like they do. It is in some part the gear used but also the way the recording process happened. Tape saturation and signal gain as well as EQ all play an integral part.

You are on the quest for the Holy Grail of sounds in my opinion. We all love them and it is instantly recognizable when heard. Tony Allgood has mastered some of them quite well so you have come to the right place to ask the proper zen master. :hail: :zen:

Mainly, don't give up. After trying different approaches you will get closer to your goal.

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Awazleon92
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Post by Awazleon92 » Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:14 am

Guys,

Thx for your quick answers.
Here is the kind of sound I'm looking for even if Kindrelost point the finger on the right direction.
Seq starting at 1:56

Basically, I'm looking for bright sound, not a bell but something not to dark for the sequence.

So, I didn't test yet but this brings some questions :
- What type of wave to use ? Triangle, Saw or Pulse or more than one at the mean time ?
- What kind of CV I have to use from my sequencer to the filter ? I guess the pitch ?

I have a mixer (multimix) to use with the TSL but also another VCF with 2 CV's IN with attenuators (but I don't like it too much. I lose signal level with the HP very low in term of level but this is another topic...) I also have another type of VCF (ARP4072) with attenuators, so no issue there.

Have a nice day
Pascal

JohnLRice

Post by JohnLRice » Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:51 pm

Sounds like zen master kindredlost has most of it covered! :tu: :hail:

An important element of that sort of sequence sound is the use of a carefully adjusted echo/delay. Have the delay set to only one (or maybe two) repeats and at a rate that doubles the rate of your sequence, for example if your sequence is creating 8th notes the delay will play in-between creating 16th notes etc. And play with panning to give it more movement, like the main sequence panned mostly left and the delay output mostly right.

In the nice example you posted his main sequence sounds like it's based on a square wave and the secondary higher pitched sequence might be based on a saw wave.

Have fun! :cloud:

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Synthbuilder
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Post by Synthbuilder » Tue Nov 15, 2016 4:23 am

Awazleon92 wrote: Seq starting at 1:56
The first main sequence appears to be mostly filtered square wave from the Korg Radias. Slightly soft attack with short release half step gate lengths. As John says it's the delay that really makes the classic Berlin sound. Triplet delays turn very pedestrian sequences into storming ones.

Although it does clearly take its cues from Berlin School that video clip is is not so much a Berlin School sequence since it remains mostly static throughout the piece. TD's Rubycon (side 1) and KS's Bayreuth Return utilise sequences that change as the track progresses - not just opening and closing filters but changing step length, skipping steps, changing gate triggers and keys. This does come somewhat easily if you have a Moog 960 in front of you but can be done well on many newer sequencers. It is a lot harder to do on computers - hence the reason we heard less of this sort of thing, even from TD, in the 80s and beyond.

I do like using two VCOs, one square and one sawtooth an octave up for that Rubycon feel, or just two saws slightly detuned. Then sent into a filter being swept by a standard fast attack, slower decay and then into a VCA being controlled by fast attack and slower release. Generally keep the resonance low unless you keep the filter sweep depth also low.

Like on this one:



Not Berlin School of course but clearly inspired by those heady days. :bananaguitar:

Tony

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Synthbuilder
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Post by Synthbuilder » Tue Nov 15, 2016 4:26 am

Since you have a TSL you should be able to get it to do this sort of thing:

http://www.oakleysound.com/super.mp3

Simple sequence with two Oakley VCOs at one octave spread on sawtooth outputs. The filter is manually being swept via the 'shape', 'freq', 'resonance' pots and altering ADSR sweep depth.

Tony

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Awazleon92
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Post by Awazleon92 » Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:39 am

Waow guys, This is becoming clear now.
I have a Beatstep Pro as sequencer, This is not a 960 but it does the job :mrgreen:
Thx for all that useful advices. I have now a direction and as I can, I'll test it.
Let me try and do some records. I'll publish then the result based on what you said.

Have all a nice day
Pascal

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kindredlost
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Post by kindredlost » Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:25 am

Dang it Tony! I forget how good your music is (Takla Makan) until I revisit it. I have quite a few of your releases but not all. That will change. I want it all!

You are surely the master.

BTW... your oakleysound.com link at Bandcamp ("Landlines" page) takes the user to a webpage register site instead of to your home page. At least it did for me here in the USA.

Keep the music coming Tony!

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Synthbuilder
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Post by Synthbuilder » Thu Nov 17, 2016 4:25 am

kindredlost wrote:You are surely the master.
Thank you for all your very kind words. I really do appreciate it.

I wish I had more time available to make more music.
BTW... your oakleysound.com link at Bandcamp ("Landlines" page) takes the user to a webpage register site instead of to your home page.
Fixed it. :tu:

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minipusice
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Post by minipusice » Fri Dec 02, 2016 7:24 am

Synthbuilder wrote:Since you have a TSL you should be able to get it to do this sort of thing:

http://www.oakleysound.com/super.mp3

Simple sequence with two Oakley VCOs at one octave spread on sawtooth outputs. The filter is manually being swept via the 'shape', 'freq', 'resonance' pots and altering ADSR sweep depth.

Tony
OMG!!! what a sound....almost pissed my pants!!!

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