tentative steps into DIY! euro/frac?

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apemandan
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tentative steps into DIY! euro/frac?

Post by apemandan » Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:25 am

Hi All!

I'd really like to start a DIY project or two. This would be my first modular project.. I currently have a Euro setup and am going to DIY a case pretty soon (i have just bought a great old military grade empty flight case from ebay).

I was going to DIY some euro modules and a case, but i really want to build a tau pipe phaser and don't think it will run on +/- 12v. I could perhaps build this as a stand alone unit, though it has made me think perhaps i should start a frac rack for more DIY projects! I also wanted to build a mankato filter but don't think it is very euro friendly?

Am i right in thinking these modules need at least +/- 15v?

Dan :confused:

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Post by Kwote » Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:06 pm

most DIY is +/-15v. some are +/-12v but are configurable to 15v.
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Post by apemandan » Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:16 pm

Thanks Kwote, do you know if the wogglebug can run at +/- 12v??

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Post by Kwote » Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:24 pm

apemandan wrote:Thanks Kwote, do you know if the wogglebug can run at +/- 12v??
it's specced for 15 but there's things you can do to take it down to 12. you'd have to ask someone how though as i forget. i think it's as simple as adding a resistor or some shit like that.
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Post by spbaker » Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:18 pm

have a look at the elby kits, great value and pretty easy to start off on, plus they are great modules too- try the ChaQuo!
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Post by Muff Wiggler » Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:53 pm

the biggest hotbed of DIY is in the MOTM format.... this format runs off the same power as a frac system (+/-15v), so the same projects/PCBs can be used for frac or MOTM format. Thus it seemingly makes sense that the second-biggest hotbed is frac format.

There was very little DIY that I saw in the eurorack format before this year... Elby has done a lot to change that, getting CGS (designed for 15v) projects that can run on 12v, and offering Euro kits on them. Good job Elby!

So most of the DIY 'kit' and 'pcb only' projects out there are 15v. But there are a bunch of them that run on 12v without problem - I just don't know which ones. For sure any of the CGS units that Elby offers would, if you wanted a 'deeper' DIY experience you could purchase the PCB only for one of these projects directly from Ken Stone (Mr. CGS) and do the rest yourself.

I think the Wogglebug #3 design that is out there in DIY world works fine on 12v - i'm not an expert but this is based on seeing people who have built them up in Euro format and are running them in their rigs.

Kwote mentions about using a resistor to drop it down to 12v. He and I may be thinking different things, but if he's getting at what I think he's getting at, I don't think it would be much help here. A voltage regulator can be used to drop the voltage that is powering something. This would be useful if you have a module that was designed for 12v, but you wanted to run it from a 15v supply. If you want to run 15v-designed projects from a 12v supply, a voltage regulator won't help you. If you are really DIY-hardcore though, you could probably build up a little circuit that would amplify the 12v up to 15v for your module. Just a thought...

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Post by apemandan » Thu Sep 25, 2008 6:23 pm

Thanks Muff, that answered a lot of questions for me. I think I'm going to DIY a euro case and power supply (with a little help of a friend who is an electrical engineer..nice!) and buy a frac rak which i will populate with DIY modules.....

I may get a wogglebug PCB and start there, i can decide later whether to use it frac or euro

guess I'm joining the frac clan!

..now i just need some cash!

:doh:

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Post by wetterberg » Thu Sep 25, 2008 6:24 pm

check out the cgs site... in the notes for the projects it usually says "will happily run under 12v" or similar

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Post by Luka » Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:43 pm

mfos have the best notes for beginners
starting from projects like the wsg and the soundlab
then work up to modular projects
all with good descriptions of functionality and nice easy boards to solder

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Post by BugBrand » Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:30 am

I'm only just moving from 12v to 15v (after about 3 years of DIYing)

From my experience almost anything will work OK if you change from 15v to 12v (or vice versa) - you almost certainly will get the circuit working and, quite possibly, it will be spot on. The only things likely to be a little off may be some scaling, some offsets and some levels - and these things can generally be tweaked with a little examination. That's not a 100% hard-and-fast truth, but I've hardly bumped into any problems....

I built one of the first Mankatos (got in on the first version boards) and that works great at 12v - can't remember if I had to do ANY alterations.

I never finished off my DIY wooglebug (am I a fool?!) but did get things working fine at 12v.

Don't know about the Tau Phase - but probably could work fine...

I'd say to probably just go with 15v -- remember that whether you're 12v or 15v the waveforms in&out will still be 10v peak to peak no matter what (well, except for some gates etc)...

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Post by apemandan » Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:17 am

BugBrand wrote:I'm only just moving from 12v to 15v (after about 3 years of DIYing)

From my experience almost anything will work OK if you change from 15v to 12v (or vice versa) - you almost certainly will get the circuit working and, quite possibly, it will be spot on. The only things likely to be a little off may be some scaling, some offsets and some levels - and these things can generally be tweaked with a little examination. That's not a 100% hard-and-fast truth, but I've hardly bumped into any problems....

I built one of the first Mankatos (got in on the first version boards) and that works great at 12v - can't remember if I had to do ANY alterations.

I never finished off my DIY wooglebug (am I a fool?!) but did get things working fine at 12v.

Don't know about the Tau Phase - but probably could work fine...

I'd say to probably just go with 15v -- remember that whether you're 12v or 15v the waveforms in&out will still be 10v peak to peak no matter what (well, except for some gates etc)...

Yeah man, think I'm going to start a little blacet rack to quench my DIY thirst. I may build a few euro modules as well (thanks elby), and I'm definitely going to DIY a euro case and power supply. So many modules, so little time!

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Post by BugBrand » Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:27 am

apemandan wrote:Yeah man, think I'm going to start a little blacet rack to quench my DIY thirst. I may build a few euro modules as well (thanks elby), and I'm definitely going to DIY a euro case and power supply. So many modules, so little time!
Hehe - its a slippery slope! Beware! No way back........

(which is maybe a good thing!)

Allbest,
Tom

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Post by fonik » Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:16 am

i just wanted to second what tom said. even most of the doepfer modules can be powered from +/-15V without changing anything (some CEM chips don't like 15V, actually they will get fried).

however, i decided to go my own route: eurorack format but powered from 15V. in some special cases i can always use an adapter for modules that i want to run at 12V (just two regulators and 4 capacitors). a wide range of eurorack frames is easy obtainable here in germany...
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Post by BugBrand » Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:07 am

Oh - Matthias' post reminds me that there's this guy called Fonik who has offered some pretty nifty DIY pcb designs over the last couple of years.

Oh lookee -- there's a link at the bottom of his post -- fonitronik!

(the PS-resonator clone is still one of my very favourites!)

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Post by apemandan » Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:24 pm

BugBrand wrote:Oh - Matthias' post reminds me that there's this guy called Fonik who has offered some pretty nifty DIY pcb designs over the last couple of years.

Oh lookee -- there's a link at the bottom of his post -- fonitronik!

(the PS-resonator clone is still one of my very favourites!)
Hmm, sounds interesting...thanks for the heads up!! I'll check it out :)

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Post by Cat-A-Tonic » Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:53 pm

Fonitronic PCBs are excellent quality and come in nice bright colors!
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Post by dokken » Tue Nov 25, 2008 8:35 am

Where can i get this Wogglebug#3

Any idea ?


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Post by fluxmonkey » Tue Nov 25, 2008 9:57 am

dokken wrote:Where can i get this Wogglebug#3

Any idea ?
looks like a custom jobbie frm makenoize, but i don't think it's a commercial product... my understanding is the wogglebug #3 was released by grant as a project for DIY, he still sells a commercial version as part of the Wiard line.
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Post by dokken » Tue Nov 25, 2008 5:52 pm

Is it me or these are really two independent
wogglebug versions and sounds different as well ?


Custom version


Commercial version

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Post by wetterberg » Tue Nov 25, 2008 6:07 pm

the Wiard wogglebug has two independent systems, I think? So it's twice the bridechamber pcb?

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Post by Cat-A-Tonic » Tue Nov 25, 2008 6:10 pm

the Wiard wogglebug has two independent systems, I think? So it's twice the bridechamber pcb?
and if memory serves the commercial version is revision #5.
It should be a bit more refined.

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Post by plord » Tue Nov 25, 2008 6:12 pm

wetterberg wrote:the Wiard wogglebug has two independent systems, I think? So it's twice the bridechamber pcb?
The circuit is different in the production version; it's v5, the DIY one is v3. The production version is two Wogglebug circuits, plus two ring mods (one for the smooths, one for the woggleds), plus two disturb circuits, plus a lot of LEDs.

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Post by Luka » Tue Nov 25, 2008 6:45 pm

i know how to extend the ranges on the 4066 oscs now too, so i can make some documentation on my dual wogglebug with ring mods and disturb functions. probably wont be till early next year

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Post by dokken » Wed Nov 26, 2008 5:52 am

Are the sonic possibilities of V5 same as V3
another words does it sounds the same ?
In my ears V3 for some reason sounds richer.

What do u think ?

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