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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

[IC for another run?] Custom euro panels
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Music Tech DIY Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next [all]
Author [IC for another run?] Custom euro panels
julian
This is what the current (matt black) run is looking like so far -






The blank space is still available. Details below.



Previous output from the same scheme -


(gloss black)

(image 'stolen' from yan6 : )
julian
Following on from my thread here -

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=176600&highlight=

Im going to give this a go, so here's the deal -


# anything you like engraved
# pay per hp
# 2mm matt black anodised aluminium
# no infill
# no holes (drill your own - make sure you put a suitable marker in your design!)



Cost -

total order

<7 hp = GBP 1.75 per hp
8-28 hp = GBP 1.40 per hp
>28 hp = GBP 1.25 per hp


(you pay per total hp ordered - eg 2x 8hp and 1x 14hp would be 30hp, so, at GBP 1.25 per hp, your total, ex shipping, would be GBP 37.50 ex delivery)

Payment by paypal personal / fees paid (or non-personal, and you add the fees)

Shipping -

UK GBP5 (<17 hp GBP3)
Rest of world GBP8 (<17hp GBP5)



For this initial run, im going to cut one single sheet (dont get confused by the details on the other thread, this is a slightly different method). The job wont be run until the run is full. When the run is full, no further parts can be added.

Files to be submitted as dxf R14 or lower (if you export from illustrator, please re-open your files to make sure the export is correct!)



please note -


Im not sure how much work this one will be, so this is a bit of a test. I may do it again with different pricing, or i may never do it again!



More details -

The job will be cut from 2.0mm matt black anodised stock.
Your submitted file will be referenced to the bottom left corner of the panel, so make sure this is 0,0 in your file
The engraving will all be done with the same line width, which will be similar to the cut in my avatar, so as to give good resolution on any multistroke fonts.

<<<< A bit like this one! : )

Again, no holes will be cut
The panel will not be infilled (you will get silver text)



When the space avaible in the first post reaches "zero" it will be time to send payments.
All payments must be in before cutting.
No space will be reserved (otherwise everyone may be waiting on one person who has changed their mind, but not communicated this)
julian
Orders -

[Name] - [HP required] - [Status] (possible status states - ordered / payment requested / payment made)
yan6
Count me in for the 84 hp as per the file i sent you for preview. We will have to work a bit together to try and get it happily converted from illustrator, but im sure its not too big of a problem w00t
julian
yan6 wrote:
Count me in for the 84 hp as per the file i sent you for preview. We will have to work a bit together to try and get it happily converted from illustrator, but im sure its not too big of a problem w00t


Well, that wasn't entirely what i was expecting!!!

I am happy to cut your job at the price above, but, if its good with you, i will keep the offer open for others to mix-and-match.

Ie i will treat your job as a separate entity, but commit to the price offered here.

Is that good with you?
yan6
Works for me thumbs up i must have misunderstood and thought there was 84 left not total oops
julian
84hp seemed like a good number for the initial offer is all.

A run is more than 84hp, but, if there were 22 orders for 2hp panels, then a lot of the metal would be lost in cuts, so i wanted to be sure there would be space.

Its the first time ive made this offer, so id rather be cautious than cavalier.
KSS
julian wrote:

# no holes (drill your own - make sure you put cross hairs in your design!)

Engraved cross hairs will cause the drill to miss the correct spot. Use a dot instead, like a centerpunch.
julian
KSS wrote:
julian wrote:

# no holes (drill your own - make sure you put cross hairs in your design!)

Engraved cross hairs will cause the drill to miss the correct spot. Use a dot instead, like a centerpunch.


Good with me - thank you!

(will update the post above accordingly)
Jarno
Hi Julian, a very nice offer. Pretty happy with lasercut acrylic panels, but I'd like to give this a try sometime. No, current panels which lend themselves to engraving only, hope you'll repeat the offer in the future!

I assume this:
>7 hp = GBP 1.75 per hp

Should be this:
<7 hp = GBP 1.75 per hp
julian
Jarno wrote:
Hi Julian, a very nice offer. Pretty happy with lasercut acrylic panels, but I'd like to give this a try sometime. No, current panels which lend themselves to engraving only, hope you'll repeat the offer in the future!

I assume this:
>7 hp = GBP 1.75 per hp

Should be this:
<7 hp = GBP 1.75 per hp


Ill edit the post (thank you! : )
DJBRUTAL
Very interested in this offer, but I've never designed a panel before. I'll see if I can bang something out in the next few days. I have 2 panels in mind so far, one 4hp and one 8hp.
synchromesh
DJBRUTAL wrote:
Very interested in this offer, but I've never designed a panel before.


Likewise. Do you have any tips/FAQs for newbies? For example:

* What exactly is "a suitable marker" for holes?
* What's a nice, basic, all-caps font to use for text that works well with your engraver?
* Is there a minimum practical feature size?
* If I want to fill in cuts with something white, what will work with the line width you're using? Or is it best to stick with "silver"?
* Any tips/gotchas when exporting as DXF from Inkscape?
* Do you want/expect/prefer multiple layers in the drawing? What should they be called?
* What are the most common problems you see in people's drawings that render them unsuitable?
* What do you wish people would do with their drawings to make life easier for you?

Enquiring minds want to know... But yes, I'll be putting something together for this myself over the weekend.
julian
All good questions / points - I probably need to draw up more detailed document or faq or something on this, i guess?

Ill do something more detailed in due course, but, briefly -

* What exactly is "a suitable marker" for holes?


As KSS kindly pointed out above, probably the easiest is if you just draw a circle, and set its diameter to 'small' (say, 0.05mm) - that way the tool will make a mark, but as the diameter of the circle will be smaller than the cutter, the mark will just be a point, rather than a circle.

* What's a nice, basic, all-caps font to use for text that works well with your engraver?

This is a more complex question. Every single engraving machine is vector (lines) only. People often get confused as they design something in a 'vector' based application, and think the output from that application is only vector - but its often not.

If i explain further -

When you have a typeface that is more than a single line (ie any typeface in bold, etc) then, in order to 'draw' it, with a single point, multiple lines must be drawn.

Imagine trying to draw a road sign with a pencil. You would need to make many many lines to fill in the letters.

This is the same with engraving. I can make the cutter as wide as i like, but then it is like trying to draw with a thick felt tip pen instead - you can fill in the shapes easier, but you loose resolution.

If your text is bold / solid, the machine needs to to 'draw' lines inside the letters to make them solid.

This is why, when you zoom in on a letter in, say, front panel designer, you see a load of lines - because this software knows about what im saying above, and it draws the lines in.

I have software here that does the same, but, with this offer, i do not want to be manipulating submitted files.

The machine itself does not care what font you use, and, indeed, people may like this service as multistroke fonts with fpd increase the price massively, whilst, with this service, you pay by panel area, so what font you use will be irrelevant to cost.


(ill probably need to edit the above - ive not really been clear)

* Is there a minimum practical feature size?


If you go too small you will loose detail. Can i quantify? Maybe keep multistroke fonts at 3mm or more? Smaller with single stroke. Possibly smaller with multistroke even - ill check the size on the panels ive been cutting recently - i think theyre 2.4mm multistroke.

In other words, pretty small, but there are limits.

* If I want to fill in cuts with something white, what will work with the line width you're using? Or is it best to stick with "silver"?

This also is an awkward question. I thought about offering white infill in the cost, but then i thought that someone would want some tiny detailed thing cut, next to some text etc. and, in order to get the resoluton, i would have to cut shallow, and then it would be bothersome to use the fill (possible, but it would increase labor)

...so i said no fill.

Its all a bit loose at the moment. I would normally use different cutter geometry for different jobs, to give different effects, but i cant gaurentee this on a job like this at the start, which is why i said silver text.

I dont really mind infilling, but i just cant say right at the moment.

* Any tips/gotchas when exporting as DXF from Inkscape?

Go for as low a version of autocad as possible. R12? Or export as hpgl (.plt) and send that. With any export, try opening the file again in somthing else to check. Even mail it to yourself using gmail, and use googles preview function.

* Do you want/expect/prefer multiple layers in the drawing? What should they be called?

No need for layers. Im going to cut everything you send me. Indeed, best put it all on the same layer, so as i dont miss anything.

* What are the most common problems you see in people's drawings that render them unsuitable?


Illustrator exports. I hate illustrator exports. They often have random lines all over the place in the dxf that i have to manually remove. Then they have open shapes, so when i try and fill a hollow shape, its not closed and the software cant work out what is the inside and the outside...

But this isnt too relevant here, as im not manipulating your files. Im leaving that to you, and just cutting what im sent! : )

* What do you wish people would do with their drawings to make life easier for you?



Things that make life harder here, but are not relevant to this project (that's not by chance, by the way - its exactly why i have added some of the constraints!)

...so, by design, im really hoping that there's not going to be too many issues with this one. Its probably going to be more file stuff than any other bother - as in what someone sees on their screen, and what i see on mine differing.
julian
Probably time to bump this - you know, maintain interest and that! : )
synchromesh
I've been laying out my panel using OpenSCAD - it has worked quite well for me (as a software developer), although doing something with "layers" might be more challenging.

I've just sent my DXF file through to you - please let me know what you think, as it's the first panel layout I've done and the odds of it being perfect first time are approximately nil. This is fun!

julian
Hey,

Ive replied to you personally, but ill write here as well, as its a common issue -


Your text, and indeed, line work, above is being represented by solid objects - yellow 'lumps'

If you were able to put the preview into wireframe mode, then you would see the actual vectors - and its these vectors that the cnc machine here would follow. It would not know, nor care, about the inside of those shapes - it only knows lines.

So, where you have a single yellow line, the machine would see two lines, sealed at the ends - it would see the 'outline' of your single line.


If you have a line (as opposed to a shape) in, say, autocad, and you zoom in on it, it stays one pixel wide on your screen. If you spend all day zooming in, its still only one pixel wide - because it is a vector - it has no weight of its own. Its just a set of co-ordinates.

If you have a line, in an application, that you zoom in on, and it gets fatter, its not a single vector, or it is, and your software is carrying additional information around that single vector, in order to give it weight - but then that information is only known to that software - when you export to true vectors, that information will either be discarded completely, or mis-represented.


I can cut the output, but it will not be as you see on the screen - it will be whatever you see in a wireframe preview - but with the complication that, in the real world, whilst the machine runs on vectors (sets of numbers that have no 'mass' in the real world) its output, obviously, does have dimensions - so the outline, if cut by a cutter that leaves a 0.5mm line, may not look good, if the space between the vectors in your wireframe is only 0.3mm. Or, worse still, 1,1mm.


I need to be able to communicate this better really.
DJBRUTAL
I'm working on a couple panels in Front Panel Designer and have a couple quick questions:

1. Will you be using the panel widths specified by Doepfer? http://www.doepfer.de/a100_man/a100m_e.htm
ex. 4HP=20mm 8HP=40.3mm

2. What is the engraving tool size?
julian
1) Sizing -

Ill get a list for reference tomorrow. Obviously 1hp is a set unit of measurement, but generally every unit is cut very slightly under, so as to give clearance when mounted side by side.


2) Engraving tool size -

Forget what it says in FPD - the software gives you one number which does not really translate to anything tangible. Ill use a measuring microscope on something tomorrow.

You might ask why i dont just know? In short, because there are a load of different factors, and i generally adjust them to give the best results for the specific job. But, in this case, obviously i have to specify so it works the other way around - not my normal way!

Off the top of my head, probably 0.5mm finished line width, something like that. But, again, do not compare this to the settings in FPD - this is cut width, which is not the same as an cutter width.

If you do want to compare with FPD, it will be similar, or thinner, than their 0.2 cutter setting. I generally like to cut thin, as you get better resolution then, but, if the job would look bad like that, then i alter it.

In fact, its probably easier just to have a look on my website. Look at the single line cuts on the examples.
julian
I just took the measuring microscope to a that 17" klee panel -





Thin line width is 0.5mm. The above offer will be cut with the same cutter geometry as was used to cut the thin lines above.

Again - this is the finished line width! Do not confuse it with the 0.2 or 0.4 options in FPD. It is slightly thinner than (IIRC) the width from FPDs 0.2 cutter (this is very much deliberate - you get better resolution)

If your designs really stretch thins limit, please factor in a +/- 0.1 tolerance. Realistically, it will be pretty much spot on 0.5 but id rather you did not try and test that! : )
yan6
I received a panel from Julian and would like to say it looks amazing nanners



Any tips on drilling. In the past i have had aluminum spirals come up the drill bit and scratch the surface.
DJBRUTAL
yan6 wrote:
Any tips on drilling. In the past i have had aluminum spirals come up the drill bit and scratch the surface.


Use painters tape to mask off the areas around where you will be drilling.

julian Can you please post the actual panel sizes you will be using?
julian
yan6 wrote:

Any tips on drilling. In the past i have had aluminum spirals come up the drill bit and scratch the surface.


Put a single layer of packing tape over the panel (the wide brown thin stuff)

A single layer is pretty much see-through and you can see and feel the center marks through it.

All the metal i supply is anodised, and much less likely to scratch than the soft brushed finishes that people often drill, but, with a layer of tape, you are protecting the panel anyhow.
julian
DJBRUTAL wrote:
off the areas around where you will be drilling.

julian Can you please post the actual panel sizes you will be using?


Sorry, i forgot -

How about just going with whatever FPD lists as their partial panel sizes?

That seems as easy as any other method?
julian
I have 22hp of finalised CAD now, so 62hp remaining until cutting.
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