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phasing ala Steve
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules Goto page 1, 2  Next [all]
Author phasing ala Steve
propertyof
i'm big fan of Steve Reich and been listening to his early records again recently.
makes me wonder, i want to recreate something like his phase patterns minimalism. i'm sure it's possible in eurorack, but not sure which modules & what kind of modules needed for the process.
i found out a couple of module could do an instant Reich like the Orthogonal Devices ER-101. but i still have vague ideas how to translate it & recreate it in usual system. i'm really curious.
so basically you'll need a sequencer? or two? do we need a specific sequencer?
clock it slightly different?
which combination of module that would be perfect here?
need your enlightenment here please..

thank you.
poppinger
propertyof wrote:
so basically you'll need a sequencer? or two? do we need a specific sequencer?
clock it slightly different?
which combination of module that would be perfect here?
need your enlightenment here please..

thank you.


One way to do it would be have two sequencers, two voices (osc/vca/vcf etc) and two clock sources like a square wave LFO with sync.

Set both sequencers to the same notes. Connect your two voices to the two sequencers. Set your clock LFOs to nearly the same frequency but one very slightly lower than the other. To start the piece you would send a reset trigger to both sequencers and the sync on both LFOs.

The result would be the two sequencers playing the same notes, but slowly slipping out of time with respect to each other. The closer in frequency the clocking LFOs are to each other, the longer it will take for the two sequences to slip out of time.
propertyof
that's it! thank you for your kind explanation to this unworthy newb. we're not worthy

poppinger wrote:

...and two clock sources like a square wave LFO with sync.


which clock modules that have sync function?
can i do it with both channel 1 & 4 of Maths?
Paranormal Patroler
There is an ADDAC clock module which is designed with the idea of phasing in mind. You should look it up.
anarchy4bits
i did some nice phasing experiments with mutable instruments edges internal sequencers. i clocked it with two dixies.
grimley
Teletype. See third post from bottom here:

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=139302&postdays=0&po storder=asc&start=125
propertyof
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
There is an ADDAC clock module which is designed with the idea of phasing in mind. You should look it up.


you mean the ADDAC403? yeah, but i think they have not release it yet (will they?).
been more than a year i guess since they announced it, but still no clue about it, except only in their website.
propertyof
grimley wrote:
Teletype. See third post from bottom here:

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=139302&postdays=0&po storder=asc&start=125

interesting. will do more research on teletype.
poppinger
propertyof wrote:
which clock modules that have sync function?
can i do it with both channel 1 & 4 of Maths?


I don't have Maths but you could probably do it with one. Cycling mode, EOC outs to sequencer clock inputs. Sync trigger into whatever restarts the Maths cycle. Tough part would probably be setting the attack/decay/lin-exp knobs to similiar enough settings. Doepfer A-147 would also do it. Eowave Zone BF would be a cheap dual LFO with reset inputs as well.
timoka
with the er-101 you can do that:

[s]http://soundcloud.com/uzala/fm-phase[/s]
propertyof
i'll try it later. thanks.

actually how many dual, triple or quad sequencer available out there?
i like the ER 101 but seems it's less intuitive, not really suit for live improvisation, compared to something like Rene.
brandonlogic
any two clock sources/lfos and any two sequencers is all you need.
i did this with the pams workout as one clock source and disting's lfo as another. separated them by about 1bpm. q bit octone and turing machine are the sequencers.

[soundcloud url="https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/257873631" params="color=ff5500&auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments= true&show_user=true&show_reposts=false" width="100%" height="166" iframe="true" /]
sempervirent
To make a shameless plug, the new alternate firmare for Algorhythm will do 8x 8-step channels of trigger sequencing (or 4x16, or 2x32) with arbitrary sequence lengths for each pattern.

Doing polyrhythms ala Reich was one of the main motivations for the update (hence the name "Polyrhythm" for this version of the code) and I'm looking forward to doing some demos that show this type of usage.
propertyof
thanks for sharing the soundcloud links guys, these are inspiring.

sempervirent
looks interesting! yes please, please do it, looking forward to see it. i'm in the middle of deciding to grab a sequencer which still has performative elements, but if possible having that kind of function is such a bonus for sure.
GuyaGuy
propertyof
GuyaGuy
yeah as i mentioned before at the first post, i saw that. that's why i asked about the method & asking for alternatives.
rozzbud
kilpatrick carbon
nebula 80
It should be quite easy to do it with ornament & crime in CopierMaschine, MetaQ or Sequins modes.
jarcorbo
Just Friends can do this times 6 Dead Banana
BillyB909
I've just tried this with Maths and got pretty close.

Using a multed gate trigger both cycles at once (actually I use the gate from the LP1 Lightplane and keep it on); set fall time on both channels at zero (this makes EOR and EOC the same), set rise at 12 o'clock for both, the log/exponential knob as similar as possible, then adjust a setting that makes one envelop slightly longer than the other.

Then you get two sets of gates that start at the same time but slow drift apart.

What was mentioned earlier in this thread is true, it's not easy to get the right settings so they drift apart (and then back together) at a Reich like speed.

There's talk of changing the sequence lengths above as a solution. I might be wrong, but I think the phased effect is due to slightly different tempos as opposed to different sequence lengths but the same tempo.
Roy72
this:

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/evaton-technologies-clx
akrylik
BillyB909 wrote:
(snip)

There's talk of changing the sequence lengths above as a solution. I might be wrong, but I think the phased effect is due to slightly different tempos as opposed to different sequence lengths but the same tempo.


The difference is negligible if your sequence length can be controlled with a fine enough granularity. For example, in the ER-101 piano phase video, both sequences are played at the same tempo but one of the sequences is shorter by one clock pulse. Specifically, one sequence is (12 notes)*(32 ppqn) = 384 clock pulses long and the other is 383 clock pulses long.

I believe that a human performance also tends to use the "shorten one or two notes" approach rather than trying to have two tempos.
propertyof
akrylik wrote:
BillyB909 wrote:
(snip)

There's talk of changing the sequence lengths above as a solution. I might be wrong, but I think the phased effect is due to slightly different tempos as opposed to different sequence lengths but the same tempo.


The difference is negligible if your sequence length can be controlled with a fine enough granularity. For example, in the ER-101 piano phase video, both sequences are played at the same tempo but one of the sequences is shorter by one clock pulse. Specifically, one sequence is (12 notes)*(32 ppqn) = 384 clock pulses long and the other is 383 clock pulses long.

I believe that a human performance also tends to use the "shorten one or two notes" approach rather than trying to have two tempos.

well according to...
wikipedia wrote:
"Phasing is a compositional technique in which the same part (a repetitive phrase) is played on two musical instruments, in steady but not identical tempi. Thus, the two instruments gradually shift out of unison, creating first a slight echo as one instrument plays a little behind the other, then a doubling with each note heard twice, then a complex ringing effect, and eventually coming back through doubling and echo into unison."

so, i think by shorten the notes, it automatically will create a slightly different tempo.

.
Roy72 wrote:
this:

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/evaton-technologies-clx

oh looks interesting! i'm in the middle of searching for a clock module. stuck between RCD or the new Pam, but this will be in my option list too now.
BillyB909
Fair enough, wasn't aware you could adjust sequence length by clock pulse on ER101. I was already trying hard not to buy one...
Dstone
Could the trigger riot do this?
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