MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index
 FAQ & Terms of UseFAQ & Terms Of Use   Wiggler RadioMW Radio   Muff Wiggler TwitterTwitter   Support the site @ PatreonPatreon 
 SearchSearch   RegisterSign up   Log inLog in 
WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Struggling with arrangement? I found my answer
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Production Techniques  
Author Struggling with arrangement? I found my answer
tompty
Hey wiggler,

I dont know about you all but one of the biggest problems I have had with making tracks is finishing them off after compiling a bunch of loops I have made in Ableton. Of around 300 tracks I have only about 40 are fully arranged and finished, the rest have bits here are there done which I come back to once in a while.

I have found the answer! External hardware sequencers.

After getting my MPC60 last months I have been more productive with my tracks than I have even been. Having to commit to a track in one sessions means I work so much faster and have to develop the other parts there are then as once everything is off and the modular, mixing desk etc changed, I cant go back and change it.

If you struggle with what I used to, definately consider getting one; a Yamaha QY700, Akai SQ etc


Here is a track I started and completed yesterday afternoon with the MPC-60
http://soundcloud.com/tompty/prophet-acid
MrBiggs
Seems to be working. Nice track.

This has come up elsewhere as well on Muffs. The ability to tinker around and change stuff forever and ever is both a pansy way to make music and an incredibly difficult way to make music. Recording audio -- with effects and everything -- is oddly freeing. Decisions have to be made and work has to get done.

Sequencers rule. w00t
MrBiggs
Oh yeah, here's a thread that explored the same territory. Five pages of good readin'.

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16815
syzygywell
I've had much the same issue.. and just went with a MPC2000xl for various reasons.. for drums and I like samples. I don't write well in ableton although I use it for sketching and will eventually use it live in some instances. But yeah I feel ya.
xiiln
random string
infradead
xiiln wrote:
random string


Da fuq?
chess1
another fun combo is to combine two machines, for example the arp function on the rs7000 into mv8000 to then have fun with dialing in various swing settings.
ok1632871
Nice Track, thanks for sharing! I've had the same problem recently, so I think I might try an external sequencer soon.
blackbetty88
After a few years of infrequently dabbling into controllers and the DAW world I thought what's the best way to learn how to make electronic music....I know I'll do a sound production course!!

After about 3 months into a 12 month Diploma course I quickly realised that making music inside a computer with a mouse was just not for me and knowing this kick started my adventure into the world of hardware & in turn hardware sequencers.

For me now I feel like I have found the avenue that is best suited to how I want to make music and since then I have nearly decided on a workflow that I am happy with and the rest is experimentation and discovery!!
baxoutthebox
absolutely! i use my eyes far too often when using the DAW for arrangement. almost becomes more about how it looks than sounds!

i bough the octatrack a few months ago and it changed everything for the better
T1-10R
I just picked up an Octatrack for this very reason. As much as I like what Ableton can do, at times, it seems to suck the creativity out of me.

Thanks for posting
coaster0
I make myself record at least 4 minutes of my loops with quick arrangement. It is always lame. I make myself listen to it. I grow. Even if make arrangements are always the same tricks I find I eventually start to make better songs when I make myself go through the process.
Futuresound
MrBiggs wrote:
Oh yeah, here's a thread that explored the same territory. Five pages of good readin'.

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16815


Nice, thanks for that link.

Sound and loop creation comes easily to me, but I struggle so much with arrangement. I didn't always - when I had nothing but a sampler and Logic 3 or something, I just banged tracks out.

I've spent a while learning the AR, but I will be jumping in to the OT next, I think it may be what I need.

One thing I've been thinking about recently is that creating sounds and short loops is really about creating something from nothing. Arrangement however, is about creating something from something - the raw material already exists in the form of loops or sequences or riffs. And it's the creation-from-nothing that I love so much.

So I think I need to either:

- Find a method of arranging that incorporates the creation-from-scratch aspect, which I think the OT may allow.

- Change my mindset and focus on finding ways to appreciate the creativity in building something from existing pieces. That's probably harder, but seems like it would really broaden my abilities in useful ways.

If only I had unlimited time smile
astrodislocate
This is making the thread look like an OT commercial but that's exactly what's happened to me when I got mine recently. I finished a whole track in just a few hours over the course of a week, and I'm now well into another since I started it last night. This also happened when I got the Nanoloop app on my phone a while ago, though that was much more limited. Not having the opportunities to scrutinize everything you do is a very liberating thing.
slumberjack
it basically has to do with your way to compose and store/save your work.
i can work with ableton like with a cirklon - but i don't. ableton really shines when it come to an instrument. as master DAW it leads directly into the ever-editing-never-finish graveyard. mostly because you got all those build-in fx, soundsources and libraries (if you got suite version, then with max4live a wast amount of free plug-ins more...). one has to be very restrictive with himself there to avoid drowning in possibilities, i think even in post-production on bare audiotracks it's still an issue in live. (edit: in the end) it's just me and my workflow, but yeah, hardware sequencers rule. wink
spacezignul
Same issue, I got a Digitakt for exact the same reason and it has helped in that respect.

The Digitakt handles all the sequencing, desktop synths and the modular via Yarns plus its own samples, its a very powerfull and versatile machine. Can't wait for overbridge to be able to send its 8 individual tracks via usb
SmokyClap
Been saving up for an MPC60. Love the vintage sampler sound and workflow. Miss my SP-12 dearly.
Faru
I guess limitation is the key as usual. For me simply moving from the clip view to starting right in the arrangement view did the trick and i dont find myself getting lost with a loop for hours that easily. I also usually, due to my slow mac, freeze and flatten one track after another. kills the possibility to tune endless and if I dont like the sound anymore I just resample or delete it. I tried the hardware sampler, but sold my OT last week after 2 years. didnt really work for me for producing ambient.
alexander92
Interesting concept. I did not even know their existence; products like yamaha QY700 and such. Seems yamaha made have quite alot of these type of sequencers. Anyone can give some feedback which produces the same results? Cirklon probably does, but it's way over my budget.

Anyway, I do agree that working with external sequencers is liberating in terms of arranging. I did experience this with my Korg ESX being the master clock of my DAW. Not the other way around though, as mentioned by slumberjack, it somehow leads to 'ever-editing-never-finish graveyard' for me.

Here is a interesting lecture i recently found from Brain Eno which sorta discusses this subject: https://vimeo.com/65663692
slumberjack
alexander92 wrote:
Interesting concept. I did not even know their existence; products like yamaha QY700 and such. Seems yamaha made have quite alot of these type of sequencers. Anyone can give some feedback which produces the same results? Cirklon probably does, but it's way over my budget.

Anyway, I do agree that working with external sequencers is liberating in terms of arranging. I did experience this with my Korg ESX being the master clock of my DAW. Not the other way around though, as mentioned by slumberjack, it somehow leads to 'ever-editing-never-finish graveyard' for me.

Here is a interesting lecture i recently found from Brain Eno which sorta discusses this subject: https://vimeo.com/65663692


marco repetto (he wrote: grauzone - eisbär) said a couple of year ago he got into the yamaha rm1x box again because of it's very hands on playfulness. i personally really like the sequencer of the su700 sampler, a shame it doesn't allow notes send. it's proto ableton clip view factor is widley known wink

with the old boxes memory and files storage can be quite a hussle.

from the new ones pyramid and engine looks like stuff i would like to play with if i wouldn't be set. further more i'm into analoque trigger / gate / logic / function generator / switch / cv sequencing and those things are really wrapping up my mind.
sutekina bipu-on
Computers harm a lot of creativity when anything is possible, something you really need to put some hard limitation on what you can do and that brings out the best from you. Its why i still do everything on a sampler with 300 seconds record time.
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Production Techniques  
Page 1 of 1
Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group