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Deckard's Dream
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> General Gear  
Author Deckard's Dream
Acquadar
Do you know what is Roman Filippov (Sputnik Modular) project named "deckard's Dream"?
lasesentaysiete
saw it on instagram. Is it Eurorack, though?
mazzyboy
Doesn't Deckard dream of Mutable Sheep?
suthnear
cs-80 clone, apparently
mdoudoroff
Doesn’t look Eurorack to me. Looks like it will be a large DIY thing.
baleen
mazzyboy wrote:
Doesn't Deckard dream of Mutable Sheep?


replicants don't make such a fuss about alternate firmwares I guess.





PolarIceCaves
related? https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1328687
sempervirent
Last post definitely shows vintage Yamaha-inspired typography:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BRA0vBpBHuM/

An earlier ones shows MIDI, USB, external power:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BQ5by2xhxEM/

So, probably not a Eurorack module. But most definitely looks to be something interesting. Could be a micro CS-80, or some earlier CS-series Yamaha as a desktop unit. But the Blade Runner (Vangelis) reference definitely implies a CS-80. Might have to make space for that!
Acquadar
Oh my God... A CS80 replica...
Sebastian Cain
Acquadar wrote:
Oh my God... A CS80 replica...


"My God - it's full of CS-80s"
anselmi
just posted by Roman (Facebook)!
love love love

rowsbywoof
Well, this is going to be interesting...
Tombola
Look at the fader layout on the big PCB image he posted, compare it with CS80

Roman says: "No rare parts, 25cm deep 4u rack, midi, presets, autotune."

https://mobile.twitter.com/mistactivated/status/836146752482766848
anselmi
anselmi
biftek
woah looks legit. nice to see a rack mount unit too.
casterbro
w00t I need this!
sduck
Comments on the (possible) DIY version go here - https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2484090
rowsbywoof
So, this is more of a super CS-60? Wonder if you could actually link two for the full CS-80 experience? :p

Edit: Then again, I thought the CS-80 was 16 voice, but it's actually 8 voice over two parts for 16 total voices... So, this could be the same. Either way, I love it. Looks great. Now... Let's hear it!
Jason Brock
eek!
casterbro
rowsbywoof wrote:
So, this is more of a super CS-60? Wonder if you could actually link two for the full CS-80 experience? :p

Edit: Then again, I thought the CS-80 was 16 voice, but it's actually 8 voice over two parts for 16 total voices... So, this could be the same. Either way, I love it. Looks great. Now... Let's hear it!


You can SlayerBadger!
rauch
omfg! i'm so in. when?! how much (doesn't matter)?!
Acquadar
Is it true? Can someone build this for me, please, ASAP???
Acquadar
Came on guys, have you ever see a CS80 internal pictures? it is so complicated, it has kilometers of cables, ribbons, how that can be true???
drip.feed
It *will* be DIY. And it will have poly aftertouch.
Sir Ruff
This looks great. And I suppose the one very good thing about DIY is that it would be easy to adjust the envelope attack time from their ridiculously short 1 sec. max attack to something more flexible.
fuzzbass
drip.feed wrote:
It *will* be DIY. And it will have poly aftertouch.


Aren't keyboards the transmit poly aftertouch as rare as hen's teeth? I used to have an Ensoniq VFX that did it, but I think it, like my VFX, has gone away.
tron23
eek! I have a CS60 and previously owned a CS80 that went faulty and noone could repair over here. This is the dream for me, hope it turns out to sound that good, presets alone are worth it let alone the space issues. Guinness ftw!
drip.feed
fuzzbass wrote:
drip.feed wrote:
It *will* be DIY. And it will have poly aftertouch.


Aren't keyboards the transmit poly aftertouch as rare as hen's teeth? I used to have an Ensoniq VFX that did it, but I think it, like my VFX, has gone away.


Yes, but things like the Roli are popular now. And it would respond over midi to, I suppose.
ImNotDedYet
Acquadar wrote:
Came on guys, have you ever see a CS80 internal pictures? it is so complicated, it has kilometers of cables, ribbons, how that can be true???


SMD for smaller components, more room on the board for things like headers to connect boards and less wiring/cable required.
drip.feed
ImNotDedYet wrote:
Acquadar wrote:
Came on guys, have you ever see a CS80 internal pictures? it is so complicated, it has kilometers of cables, ribbons, how that can be true???


SMD for smaller components, more room on the board for things like headers to connect boards and less wiring/cable required.


Almost certainly very little wiring inside this thing. Like the TTSH. A big pcb behind the panel to host all the sliders and switches, then a series of plug-in daughter boards for all the voices etc. The midi and USB sockets will probably be on daughter boards too.
ModusOp
MY ASS IS BLEEDING Now watching!! When, Where, and How much?!?!
muffdiver
So amazing! Can't wait for the details....

Any one have an idea of what the USB port is for?
Man-In-A-Suitcase
hmm no ring modulation controls, what a cop out!
GryphonP3
Things gave gotten much more efficient in the electronics world since the CS80 was originally developed. Miles of ribbons and thousands of lare package transistors can easily be replaced by pin headers/vias and SMT conponents. Components that do the exact same thing with the exact same tolerences, biases, and variation. The myth of SMT vs thru hole being a major difference in sound has (IMO) been debunked through many amazing sounding circuits and clones that we have been lucky enougj to see in the past few years, so long as the engineerig is good and meticulously follows the behavior and ideology of the original circuit design.

Anyway, this is very exciting. Hope it is not very overpriced for the DIY version, and hope that those enclosures will be available for it as well. Good to see more full DIY synths becoming available and not just messes of eurorack clones.
fuzzbass
GryphonP3 wrote:
The myth of SMT vs thru hole being a major difference in sound ...


... is that the actual device inside the through hole package is different than the one in the smd package. 99% of the time, its the same little thing. Packaging is the only difference, but seems to be enough to convince the tweaks.

These caps sound warm because they look like little tropical fish. razz
Michael O.
If this thing has even 75% of the sound of a CS80 without the maintenance nightmares then I'm in. And judging by the designer, It'll probably sound excellent
rico loverde
from Matrix synth via Roman:

"It will be 999 kit, for 12 pcbs with MCU and 72 dacs preinstalled. Built will be 5k."

The MCU is the "multi control unit" - the controls on the panel have to control all eight voices at the same time.

You might notice the lack of basic CV and Gate on back. However, you might notice the "Expander" jack. Roman tells me he is thinking about making a complex CV expander unit for it. Complex implies more than basic CV and Gate. This will likely be a patchable CS80 in the end.

Note this is analog and it is eight voices. Roman cloned the original Buchla Music Easel, which many in the know, say is closer to the original than the BEMI Easel. Roman knows his stuff, so this is likely to be as close as it gets to the original in sound. Of course part of the charm of a CS80 is the expressive keyboard including poly aftertouch and what can be argued as slightly more ergonomic controls, mainly the levers used for expressive control. That said, the original does lack CV, and of course, is quite a bit more expensive.
Sir Ruff
Man-In-A-Suitcase wrote:
hmm no ring modulation controls, what a cop out!


Yeah, that's kind of a strange feature to omit.
muffdiver
I guess the next question is - ETA?
rowsbywoof
If this is really going to be a $999 kit, I am going to be firmly in the camp of having to justify not building one. That's incredible.
ModusOp
"Built will be 5k." Dead Banana I'm out.
retrosynth
https://www.instagram.com/sputnikmodular/

Here's the the guy that does it.
medbot
rowsbywoof wrote:
If this is really going to be a $999 kit, I am going to be firmly in the camp of having to justify not building one. That's incredible.


Not a full kit, if that's what you were thinking. It will be interesting to see how much the BOM and parts cost, especially given the $5,000 price for a built model. Also noticed that the enclosure and panel weren't included in that kit price, but that might have just been an oversight.
anselmi
ModusOp wrote:
"Built will be 5k." Dead Banana I'm out.


sad banana cry waah
Acquadar
You can always sample Blade Runner with a Morphagene Rockin' Banana! Rockin' Banana! Rockin' Banana!
casterbro
Could get one but a bit afraid of buying one immediately from Roman... Easel V1 was cool but program cards didn't work. Roman is saying it will be fixed one of these days but it seems it won't be done. It's probably better to wait for a second batch or the V2 hmmm.....
So bad, I really want one of these zombie
rowsbywoof
medbot wrote:
rowsbywoof wrote:
If this is really going to be a $999 kit, I am going to be firmly in the camp of having to justify not building one. That's incredible.


Not a full kit, if that's what you were thinking. It will be interesting to see how much the BOM and parts cost, especially given the $5,000 price for a built model. Also noticed that the enclosure and panel weren't included in that kit price, but that might have just been an oversight.


I figured as much, either way grin I'm definitely interested, but it will all come down to price and the complexity of the build. Would be a fun project, though, and man... What a cool thing to build.
NS4W
All surface mount?
doombient.music
Hmmm... I can't see much point in a CS80 clone which lacks the ringmodulator section and the keyboard -- which makes the CS80 what it is.

On the other hand, most keyboard players don't seem to be in need of a proper keyboard these days. I should be viewing this positively and admit it's perhaps an affordable option to get this type of character into a keyboard rig.

Stephen
TheMM
Holy shit, if this could only be eurorack format....
Waiting for the price tag.
It's peanut butter jelly time!
drip.feed
Sir Ruff wrote:
Man-In-A-Suitcase wrote:
hmm no ring modulation controls, what a cop out!


Yeah, that's kind of a strange feature to omit.

There will be a ring modulator. It is planned for a 1U expander module that will also provide chorus (and echo too, I think).
SynthBaron
TheMM wrote:
Holy shit, if this could only be eurorack format....


What would be the point of that?
SynthBaron
Honestly, having owned a CS-50, the unique keyboard aftertouch really made that synth into something special. I think the music world needs a currently produced keyboard controller with the same type of easily expressive aftertouch first. Everything out there now is shit.
SynthBaron
Sir Ruff wrote:
Man-In-A-Suitcase wrote:
hmm no ring modulation controls, what a cop out!


Yeah, that's kind of a strange feature to omit.


If you haven't used a CS-50/60/80, then you might not realize how much that feature contributes to the sound of that synth. I thought it was kind of a weird thing to have on a polysynth, until I used it...
TheMM
SynthBaron wrote:
TheMM wrote:
Holy shit, if this could only be eurorack format....


What would be the point of that?


It would eliminate the need for an extra rack to fit my current setup...
phase ghost
NS4W wrote:
All surface mount?


That's what I'm wondering. If not, I could be down for a kit.
drip.feed
phase ghost wrote:
NS4W wrote:
All surface mount?


That's what I'm wondering. If not, I could be down for a kit.


It's a mixture. The voice cards are through-hole.
SynthBaron
drip.feed wrote:
phase ghost wrote:
NS4W wrote:
All surface mount?


That's what I'm wondering. If not, I could be down for a kit.


It's a mixture. The voice cards are through-hole.


I'm surprised the assembled price isn't more then.
drip.feed
I've heard a rough guesstimate of $2k for all the pcbs, panel and components (that you source yourself). So $5k for a commercial build does seem like reasonable value.
SynthBaron
That aftertouch and ring mod, sigh:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoEkyBX7qsg
Now and Zen
drip.feed wrote:
phase ghost wrote:
NS4W wrote:
All surface mount?


That's what I'm wondering. If not, I could be down for a kit.


It's a mixture. The voice cards are through-hole.


I wouldn't be too surprised if there were two versions of the voice cards, a through hole variant for DIY and an SMD board for the fully built version - that route involves a bit more design work but it would make manufacturing much faster and cheaper...
dreamdreamdream
Now and Zen wrote:
drip.feed wrote:
phase ghost wrote:
NS4W wrote:
All surface mount?


That's what I'm wondering. If not, I could be down for a kit.


It's a mixture. The voice cards are through-hole.


I wouldn't be too surprised if there were two versions of the voice cards, a through hole variant for DIY and an SMD board for the fully built version - that route involves a bit more design work but it would make manufacturing much faster and cheaper...


I'd honestly rather have a diy smt version than through hole depending on the size of the smt components. It's sort of tricky, the best smt setup for assembly might be too tricky for home smt, and 3 separate versions is probably asking too much.

Even though I haven't done any real smt yet, for something this size and that costs this much I think I'd rather go at it with a stencil and solder paste and a reflow oven.

Especially if the voice cards all end up being the same layout. That means you'd only need one stencil for all of them.
roman_f
answering some questions:

- it will be DIY, build units will be offered as well
- full midi support and presets
- autotune
- MPE mostly (still need to dig it)
- VSTi editor by Spektro Audio
- 2 units may be chained for 16 voice system
- 1u expansion module following the main unit, with analogue effects, assignable CV/GATE inputs and desktop ribbon controller (will connect to the expander via cable)
first demos in a week, preorder hopefully in a month, shipping 8 weeks after

roman
ultravox
Really amazing work, Roman! I'll take one DIY kit + expansion module once it's ready. I have a friend on gearslutz that expressed interest so I might be building two...

Exciting times for musicians!
Kazremark
Looks amazing. Where will we be able to pre-order?
visible cow
I'm desperately trying to think of ways to raise funds for one of these. I really wish I had the necessary DIY skills.
diophantine
roman_f wrote:
answering some questions:

- it will be DIY, build units will be offered as well
- full midi support and presets
- autotune
- MPE mostly (still need to dig it)
- VSTi editor by Spektro Audio
- 2 units may be chained for 16 voice system
- 1u expansion module following the main unit, with analogue effects, assignable CV/GATE inputs and desktop ribbon controller (will connect to the expander via cable)
first demos in a week, preorder hopefully in a month, shipping 8 weeks after

roman

Wonderful news - thanks for these details, Roman! Definitely planning to get one of these... I'd been tempted to get a CS-60 for a while, but I have nowhere to put one! So this is amazing...

I have a couple of quick questions, if you don't mind - I'm sure others are curious, too:
- Looks like this is pretty shallow, based on the renders. What's the approx. depth?
- Will the kits require a lot of SMD soldering, or will they like be some of your previous projects where it is a mix of pre-soldered SMD and DIY through-hole?
REwire
A CS-60 is still less than half of what this is. Each of a CS80's voices has 2 oscs and 2 LP and 2 HP filters. Not to mention the extra EQ each layer has in the brilliance control.

I'm waiting for an answer if the kits are SMD or Thru Hole to figure if I'd be tempted to build it.

Dan
diophantine
REwire wrote:
A CS-60 is still less than half of what this is. Each of a CS80's voices has 2 oscs and 2 LP and 2 HP filters. Not to mention the extra EQ each layer has in the brilliance control.

Yup - I didn't intend to imply that they were at all the same; just that the CS-60 was the closest thing that I could conceivably afford that would be even close to a CS-80.
REwire
I thought that about the CS-50, which was cheap and pretty much same sound as CS-60. It was just too thin with the one osc per voice. I actually has two at one time to fix defects in the other. If they could have been midi'd and played at the same time, that would have been a real CS-80 sound in less voices.

I think I'd buy this at the full 5K if it has the sound or have a tech build for me that could come out around $3500. You can't get the real thing under 10K. I had a chance to buy a CS-80 for 5K ten yrs ago but was put off by the weight and fear of fixing. A tech told me these had the same tech as Japanese WWII Zeros.

Dan
doombient.music
REwire wrote:
[...] It was just too thin with the one osc per voice. [...]


Hark, hark!

Stephen
Europa313
cs-50 too thin HAHA. It's so fato it shakes my house
I'm not sure they can recreate the incredibly organic sound of the cs50/60/80
doombient.music
That much about being *thin*:

[s]https://soundcloud.com/doombient-music/cs50-improvisation[/s]

Strangely enough, I've never heard people complain about a Jupiter 4 being *thin*. Or an Oberheim Four Voice, for that matter.

Stephen
REwire
doombient.music wrote:
That much about being *thin*:

[s]https://soundcloud.com/doombient-music/cs50-improvisation[/s]

Strangely enough, I've never heard people complain about a Jupiter 4 being *thin*. Or an Oberheim Four Voice, for that matter.

Stephen


Oberheims SEMS have two osc per voice so of course not thin and other one osc synths like Junos and Jupiter 4 have some nice PWM to help and the former's chorus.

The Ring Mod is the best thing on the CS-50/60 and even on that demo that delay helped.

My use of the CS-50 was also helped by a Synthoma Elkorus like in these examples (in first):

http://www.rewiremusic.com/Audio/Demos/CS50_Chorus_01.wav

http://www.rewiremusic.com/Audio/Demos/CS50_09.wav
.

And back on topic I could not get the CODE 4 with CS-80 filters and its two oscs per voice even get close to the CS-50/60 sound so really hope Deckard's Dream gets it right and then allows the two sets of filters and voices to get really thick brassy sounds like the CS-80 Bladerunner patch,

Dan
Escapegoat
doombient.music wrote:
That much about being *thin*:

[s]https://soundcloud.com/doombient-music/cs50-improvisation[/s]

Strangely enough, I've never heard people complain about a Jupiter 4 being *thin*. Or an Oberheim Four Voice, for that matter.

Stephen


Interesting sounds, but not what I would call fat. (And the SEMs in the Four Voice have two VCOs per voice).
muffdiver
Stephen-

I had always thought Hollenangel was written with CS80. Was it actually CS50? Love this album btw.

doombient.music wrote:
That much about being *thin*:

[s]https://soundcloud.com/doombient-music/cs50-improvisation[/s]

Strangely enough, I've never heard people complain about a Jupiter 4 being *thin*. Or an Oberheim Four Voice, for that matter.

Stephen
doombient.music
muffdiver wrote:
Stephen-

I had always thought Hollenangel was written with CS80. Was it actually CS50? Love this album btw.

doombient.music wrote:
That much about being *thin*:

[s]https://soundcloud.com/doombient-music/cs50-improvisation[/s]

Strangely enough, I've never heard people complain about a Jupiter 4 being *thin*. Or an Oberheim Four Voice, for that matter.

Stephen


Thanks for your kind words. oops

Hoellenengel was indeed produced with a CS80. I've also got a CS50 (which I bought many moons later). The 50 is fat and creamy but not *that* huge... hihi

Stephen
orz
roman_f wrote:
answering some questions


Thanks for answering!
I have another question if you don't mind.

I assume that the 8 voices of one unit uses both 'sounds' (i.e upper and lower sliders) per voice, like the CS-80. Is this correct? (Apologies if this has been answered elsewhere)
dopefiend
REwire wrote:
I thought that about the CS-50, which was cheap and pretty much same sound as CS-60. It was just too thin with the one osc per voice

Dan


Well, usually what makes it sound "thin" is opening the HPF too much. This is something I dislike about the CS80 presets, especially the strings...too buzzy. But properly set up, you can get really thick sounds with only one VCO. I recorded this little shitty thing just to see if I could have 2 iPads accompany me while playing the solo of "All My Love" from The Zepp. The drums and strings are poorly mixed, and the end result is rather crappy, but the trumpet solo is just one VCO with a sawtooth wave.

https://www.facebook.com/jesus.diaz.902604/videos/vb.100001791283666/1 163099547093077/?type=3&theater
sauce
Photo of the expander:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BRc_-1VheSB/?taken-by=sputnikmodular
Varthdader
Anybody know why the extra power switch and phone out with volume on the expander?
roman_f
Because it will be able to use it standalone as effects processor and as a cv to midi converter
XXXEsq
Roman, What an epic undertaking! Can't wait to see the finished project. Depending on the build complexity, I may jump on one of these!
bkbirge
This looks like one of those things that I'll just have to get in line on no matter how complex, wow.
anselmi
this thread will be pointless when Uli anounce the Behringer-80 volkspolysynth at just $600 razz
Angroc
Where would one eventually pre-order the DIY kits? Just really really want one of these. we're not worthy we're not worthy A racked poly with 1:1 hands on control? Yes pleeeeassssseee!!!! lol
pschilling
sauce wrote:
Photo of the expander:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BRc_-1VheSB/?taken-by=sputnikmodular


woah looks like he actually will implement the Sustain II mode... since in the CS-80 the voice allocation logic was all sort of hard-wired, I am very curious how Roman is implementing it here.
synthysynth
anselmi wrote:
this thread will be pointless when Uli anounce the Behringer-80 volkspolysynth at just $600 razz


hahahah you troll hihi At least roman gets shit out quickly, can't wait!
andriesvds
w00t

but give it a ring mod. pls. cry applause
lupito
roman_f wrote:
Because it will be able to use it standalone as effects processor and as a cv to midi converter


Roman,

"1u expansion module following the main unit, with analogue effects, assignable CV/GATE inputs and desktop ribbon controller (will connect to the expander via cable) "

Is CV assignable to any control? i.e. 'attack rate on VCF' or just voices?

How does the ringmod function? I'm assuming that its monophonic, one separate modulating osc with a single ADSR triggered from each firing of a keyboard trigger controlling the amount of effect?

Is the actual ringmod monophonic on the CS80 simply an effect slapped on the audio output? or does it actually have 8 extra modulation osc and envelopes controlling its depth to process the individual voices?

thank you
nearly ghost
Damn this looks AMAZING! Wish I had the cash very frustrating
SteeVtheRipper
I'd be interested in the kit, depending on the build difficulty. If it's something akin to the MS20 build it's a no brainer but if it requires purchasing and placing all those micro components that will be a bit out of my skill range. I can solder through hole but micro stuff I've never done.
PYJAMAGROOVE
This is incredible. Someone actually cloning a CS80 is a dream itself. The price tag is always a problem but my hat goes off to Roman for this incredibly bald idea that none believed will come to realization one day.

I am very fortunate myself to actually own a Yamaha CS80. It is one of very few instruments whose uniqueness can be understood only by actually touching and playing it. I mean if you hear it's wonderful sound and enjoy it, it is actually nothing comparing the actual interaction with it's wonderful interface:
The poly AT, the feel of the keyboard and the ribbon controller, the chunky levers etc. Just wonderful. The presets are great and very useful - they are perfectly balanced and blending them together always get great results.
It's very hard to get a bad sound out of it - it's so well balanced.
I would say that at least 50% of CS80's legend and greatness lies in it's interface - it's immediate, intuitive and right in front of you - very inviting.

Sadly all those features will be gone in a rack clone because CS80 is more of a performer's synth but the Dekard's Dream is still a fantastic project IMHO. I'll try to get one one day too. If you can get at least that sound for 5k is well worth it. You can spend the rest of the 20k on a car.
cycad73
Exactly cloning something from the past has been revealed to be pretty much impossible. Moog may be getting close, who knows.

Nonetheless, this still seems exciting due to the lack of really great sounding rack polys. Maybe Voyetra 8, MKS-80... not much else. (Not a fan of the SE stuff for instance).

So as long as the end result has a great, versatile sound that mixes well with all the old gear and will fit in a small space, there always will be a market. For those for whom only a CS-80 will do, they don't seem that rare -- originals do come up for sale quite often.
synthetic
How about regular MIDI poly aftertouch support? Looking forward to the demos.
Acquadar
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10210649968939279&set=a.102032 69373389003.1073741828.1049560006&type=3
Globus
First post for me here. Hello all.

There is something I am unclear on with this one, namely the 8 voice boards. Does this mean that Deckard's Dream is actually a 2 osc, 4 voice? Or are there actually two CS80 'M' boards on each card?
sonicwarrior
A voice board contains one complete voice. I don't know any synth in which this is handled otherwise as it doesn't make sense.
Globus
Yes, that's right. I just meant that for this to be an 8 voice, surely it would need 16 voice cards? I think it only has 8 however?
strange tales
Globus wrote:
Yes, that's right. I just meant that for this to be an 8 voice, surely it would need 16 voice cards? I think it only has 8 however?


I don't think anyone has any real idea on whats going on underneath the metal. Has he mentioned how many PCBs there will be for the DIY kit? That would be the indicator.

Either way, pinching pennies now to build this when it's out.
oberling
strange tales wrote:
Globus wrote:
Yes, that's right. I just meant that for this to be an 8 voice, surely it would need 16 voice cards? I think it only has 8 however?


I don't think anyone has any real idea on whats going on underneath the metal. Has he mentioned how many PCBs there will be for the DIY kit? That would be the indicator.

Either way, pinching pennies now to build this when it's out.


well taking a look at his instagram page https://www.instagram.com/sputnikmodular/ I would conclude the following:
It's an 8 voice analog synthesizer (doesn't yet mean there must be "only" 8 voice cards installed).
There are at least 8 Voice card PCBs (since there are 8 voice card connectors + 1 unknown (left most))
1 PCB for the faders, display, switches and knobs and what have you (directly behind the front panel)
1 PCB for mounting the voices (behind the fader PCB) - I'll call it carrier PCB
then there is an interface PCB (with the USB, Power, MIDI and audio connectors)
finally there is a power supply PCB as well

one picture also shows a whole bunch of smaller PCBs (maybe connector PCBs for connecting the voice cards to the carrier PCB?)

Maybe all the 8 voice card PCBs each already contain all the circuitry for two voices... I don't know if he could really fit two voices on those PCBs (I would certainly doubt it when imagining them compared in size to the crOwBX voice card PCBs)... but on the front panel there is a Mix-slider for I and II which on the CS80 was used to fade between two presets each on a set of 8 individual voice cards...

So all in all it's at least 12 PCBs - probably more (not counting the smaller ones)
Maybe the ninth connector is intended for controlling a daisy-chained second 8 voices to make it the full CS80 with 16 voice cards...

Also the most recent picture of what I presume is a Voice card PCB shows a heck of a lot SMT components... That promises much fun while hand soldering hihi
But maybe he'll sell the boards partly assembled (having all SMT components already soldered in place)...

Anyway - I'm hooked! nanners It's peanut butter jelly time! Rockin' Banana! we're not worthy
anselmi
oberling wrote:
Maybe the ninth connector is intended for controlling a daisy-chained second 8 voices to make it the full CS80 with 16 voice cards


I´m not fully familiar with the CS-80 voice architecture, so I´m a bit confused about the number of voices and the single/dual scheme of them (in both the CS and DD)

I mean: as far as I can see in the panel, the CS-80 got an array of 2 "lines" that have 1 OSC, 1 FILT, 1 VCA, 2 ENV, righ?

are this individual lines what you call "1 voice"?
or each single voice got both lines and so there was a total of 16 oscillators inside the CS-80?

I can see the same layout in the DD panel, so I wonder why you would need 2 DD to make a single CS-80 hmmm.....
Globus
Please don't get me wrong. However many voices it may be, I will be building one of these if it even has the faintest sonic resemblance to a real CS. Which I expect it will. I only meant that from the pcb photos it appeared to have provision for 8 voice boards,
and I know well enough the internal architecture of CS. It is not like OBXa etc with two voices per board. etc. This was all I was trying to convey.

Even if it were only a 2 osc 4 voice, that would still be excellent. The CS50 is terrific, and a souped up 2 osc version would be even moreso.
In the meantime I am trying to contain excitement while awaiting demos and further details.
doombient.music
anselmi wrote:
[...] I´m not fully familiar with the CS-80 voice architecture, so I´m a bit confused about the number of voices and the single/dual scheme of them (in both the CS and DD) [...]


The CS80 has eight voices arranged in two channels -- that makes two sounds at a time with a maximum of eight voices of polyphony.

The CS60 has just one channel of eight voices (no layering), the CS50 has only four voices (no layering, obviously).

Stephen
revtor
Behringer's going to clone it, 2018...
anselmi
doombient.music wrote:
The CS80 has eight voices arranged in two channels -- that makes two sounds at a time with a maximum of eight voices of polyphony.


OK, but how much oscillators, filters, VCAs and envelopes each channel have?
Globus
Each voice has a single VCO, resonant HPF resonant LPF, VCF EG, and VCA EG. One note will activate two sets of this scenario.
In this way you can set two completely different sounds to play at once. As opposed to pretty much every other 2 osc poly synthesizer which sends both VCO's through the same VCF EG VCA etc
That's not to mention the separate initial touch and after touch settings per channel.
So, 16 sets of that configuration. divided into 2 channels for 8 voices
anselmi
Globus wrote:
Each voice has a single VCO, resonant HPF resonant LPF, VCF EG, and VCA EG. One note will activate two sets of this scenario.
In this way you can set two completely different sounds to play at once. As opposed to pretty much every other 2 osc poly synthesizer which sends both VCO's through the same VCF EG VCA etc
That's not to mention the separate initial touch and after touch settings per channel.
So, 16 sets of that configuration. divided into 2 channels for 8 voices



great, thanks!

so the DD layour is exactly the same of the CS-80, right? with 2 channels per voice
Reese P. Dubin
Cant wait to see the ttown23 eVANGELISt version for $12,000
Globus
Well it certainly looks to be the exact same layout situation as CS-80, yes.

My only question was that it didn't seem to have provision for 16 voice boards, at which point I remembered that it was mentioned you could chain multiple units for double polyphony.

At which point I remembered those horrid little Roland Boutiques. Not that this should in any way be compared to those.

Like I said, even if this were a 2 osc 4 Voice, it will still be excellent (If it sounds anything like CS) Can't wait to hear it.
lupito
Globus wrote:
Well it certainly looks to be the exact same layout situation as CS-80, yes.

My only question was that it didn't seem to have provision for 16 voice boards, at which point I remembered that it was mentioned you could chain multiple units for double polyphony.

At which point I remembered those horrid little Roland Boutiques. Not that this should in any way be compared to those.

Like I said, even if this were a 2 osc 4 Voice, it will still be excellent (If it sounds anything like CS) Can't wait to hear it.


Globus, but how does the ring mod function in CS80? is it just one monophonic processor that is slapped across the output, with one ADSR controlling its depth that retriggers with key presses?

Or is it polyphonic ring mod with each voice having its own modulation osc and separate ADSR? on this clones expander, I can't see how polyphonic ring mod would work in a tiny 1 unit fx unit, interfacing with just a DIN connector..
Globus
It is on a single board in the originals, I recently fixed a simple fault in the ring modulator on a CS-50.

A monophonic idea across the output basically, yes. It has that neat envelope dedicated to it of course. Great fun.

I am certainly no expert on this stuff, I'm barely a novice.
I only know a bit about CS-80 because it is the one main reason I like synthesizers in the first place.

That being said I have never laid eyes upon one.
numbertalk
Looks like thru-hole for DIY https://www.facebook.com/rfilippov/posts/10210714343868612:0
dopefiend
numbertalk wrote:
Looks like thru-hole for DIY https://www.facebook.com/rfilippov/posts/10210714343868612:0



Page not available seriously, i just don't get it
numbertalk
roman_f
hey guys, some technical details

each of 8 voice cards has 2 "layers"
each layer has it's own oscillator, hp filter, lp filter, filter-EG, 2xVCAs and VCA-EG

16 oscillators total, 32 filters, 32 VCAs

motherboard has connections for all cards, MCU, 80 regular DACs and 16 precise DACs. also lots of opamps, analog switches, additional VCAs, multiplexors for autotune and other minor stuff.

9th card is a PSU card. I decided not to deal with high voltages in this synth, because it's DIY. you have external 9-24V DC brick and a PSU board, that makes +12V/-12V/+5V/-5V/+3.3V, separates digital and audio grounds. it also has an additional +5V converter for powering a cooling fan and a usb-host port.

fan will have digital control, you can adjust the fan speed or turn it completely off, or it may be controlled in automatic mode, since the MCU has a temperature sensor on board.

usb port is bi-functional. by default it's usb-b device port, but it may be working as a host (using a small B->A adapter and some extra circuitry inside).
Globus
Excellent News. Splendid. Thanks for the update!
I am really looking forward to this. I'm sure a good number of us here feel similarly. Hope to see some demos soon, just been getting the money together in the meantime.
latigid on
Looks insane!

But card edge connector?? Has the technology improved in the last decades? Polysynths often show reliability problems where the voice card needs to be reseated; they're likely not stationary units.
The Disquiet
love love love love love
ultravox
Nice work Roman. I'll be one of your first customers on the first day of sale and I'm looking forward to building this.

Are the audio clips out yet?
yan6
ultravox wrote:
Nice work Roman. I'll be one of your first customers on the first day of sale and I'm looking forward to building this.

Are the audio clips out yet?


Speaking of which does anyone know where it will be sold from
sduck
The DIY version would probably be at his web store I'd guess, although I could be wrong. https://electricmusicstore.com
SteeVtheRipper
I e never built a synth from scratch before. Aside from soldering in the components and assembling the synth what else goes into a build like this? Is there testing/calibration? What's needed to do that? Are there usually thorough instructions?
oldgearguy
SteeVtheRipper wrote:
I e never built a synth from scratch before. Aside from soldering in the components and assembling the synth what else goes into a build like this? Is there testing/calibration? What's needed to do that? Are there usually thorough instructions?


Ideally you have a multi-meter and possibly an oscilloscope (if calibration is needed).

In my opinion, just looking at that blank circuit board above (and remembering that's x8 plus other boards), I would not recommend this as a first DIY effort. Especially since you're going to sink $2k or more into the blank boards plus case, panel, hardware, etc.

Also - if you're color blind (or have significant red/green or yellow/blue color weakness), you'll have to test every resistor before inserting them into the board (unless they're bagged and tagged by value) to verify you have the correct value. I know for myself (red/green weakness - some tri-color LEDs are impossible for me to distinguish their state) when I'm doing circuit repairs, unless it's something like a 100k resistor, I end up having to measure the loose resistors in my parts boxes to find the correct value.
SteeVtheRipper
Well I did intern at a keyboard shop for two years and have some experience with synths, at least in the sense of soldering in components and reading things with a multi meter. I haven't used an oscilloscope. I'd be interested in reading the build instructions first if they are made available so I can determine if this would be something I could undertake. I think if it's well written enough I can do it.




oldgearguy wrote:
SteeVtheRipper wrote:
I e never built a synth from scratch before. Aside from soldering in the components and assembling the synth what else goes into a build like this? Is there testing/calibration? What's needed to do that? Are there usually thorough instructions?


Ideally you have a multi-meter and possibly an oscilloscope (if calibration is needed).

In my opinion, just looking at that blank circuit board above (and remembering that's x8 plus other boards), I would not recommend this as a first DIY effort. Especially since you're going to sink $2k or more into the blank boards plus case, panel, hardware, etc.

Also - if you're color blind (or have significant red/green or yellow/blue color weakness), you'll have to test every resistor before inserting them into the board (unless they're bagged and tagged by value) to verify you have the correct value. I know for myself (red/green weakness - some tri-color LEDs are impossible for me to distinguish their state) when I'm doing circuit repairs, unless it's something like a 100k resistor, I end up having to measure the loose resistors in my parts boxes to find the correct value.
roman_f
You'll need a scope only for sine wave trimming
nvining
I'm going to buy one of these anyways, but can you confirm that the VCO is a charge-pump oscillator, and that the resonance OTA on the VCF has one of those little filter networks in it to prevent self-oscillation?
roman_f
the VCO has a 30uS spike on a saw-wave, filters don't self-oscillate


i have ordered 3D-modelling of every single part of the kit to make a super detailed step-by-step build instruction manual, it would be easy process for anyone.
_lex
Roman,

Are enclosures or front panels included in the kit? It would be worth it for those whole might buy the kit while its available and build at a later time. One of the great things about the TTSH kit is that it includes the panel.

Cheers!
Sinamsis
I'm keeping an eye on this as the CS80 has been a dream synth for me. Probably won't be an early adapter, I'd like to make sure there are no quirks.

Out of curiosity, what will the warranty be on a prebuilt unit? And will they be sold directly from Roman or by other retailers?
xonetacular
Wonder how many hours this will take to build and total cost with all parts.

40 hours for an average builder? 60 hours?

I really don't need this, and don't really have time for a huge diy project, but yet I still may not be able to resist.
xonetacular
latigid on
I wonder if the white plastic at the centre-bottom of the picture (rear of voice card) is a stacking nylon standoff. That would at least anchor the boards to each other, although IMO this is still not a great way of mounting boards due to plenty of stress on the edge connectors. It would help to have some sort of secondary mounting, like a piece of grooved plastic on the bottom of the case.
xonetacular
looks like a film capacitor to me
SynthBaron
latigid on wrote:
It would help to have some sort of secondary mounting, like a piece of grooved plastic on the bottom of the case.


3D print a card cage and sell it to the kit buyers, lol...
SynthBaron
I'm amazed that there is so "few" components seemingly compared to the inside of a CS-80. I guess a lot of the functionality has been made more efficient with a microcontroller/switch.
oldgearguy
It's looking great. Has anyone actually heard audio from one yet?
Sinamsis
Roman seems pretty active on Instagram. I'm hoping he'll post something. I've been stalking him a little haha.
mutierend
Sinamsis wrote:
Roman seems pretty active on Instagram. I'm hoping he'll post something. I've been stalking him a little haha.


I hope he doesn't abandon the amazing Sputnik modules he announced. I can't save room for them forever. :(
xonetacular
first sounds

https://www.instagram.com/p/BSvnWN7BpYX/
ultravox
xonetacular wrote:
first sounds

https://www.instagram.com/p/BSvnWN7BpYX/


I think building this will be an adventure and I can't wait to start! Moneys in hand ready to go!

Would like to know what rare parts are needed and/if a rare parts kit will be available?
DSC
xonetacular wrote:


Awe Inspiring! thumbs up
PYJAMAGROOVE
Who needs it...



MinoLoco
roman_f wrote:
the VCO has a 30uS spike on a saw-wave, filters don't self-oscillate


i have ordered 3D-modelling of every single part of the kit to make a super detailed step-by-step build instruction manual, it would be easy process for anyone.


Hi Roman,

First congrats on that ambitious project. And thanks you for trying to bring back THE Legend.

As far as we can tell it could be very close to the sound and design/functionality.

But wouldn't it be a great opportunity to improve the the original design?

As It seems to me that the big difference with cs80 is of course preset memory and so analog voices (VCOs VCFs VCAs) will be digitally controlled.

That means the envelopes will be digital I guess... And the fact that there are these 16 assignable (?) Input for CV on the expansion unit means again "Software"/digital control again i guess.

Could all that mean that you could somehow improve the original design by for instance:

- Increase the range of the original envelopes
(known to be quite short unlike the CS70m for instance with the x5 option)

- Include more Modulation options/routing or even a Mod Matrix with polarity a la Chroma.
(like Env to VCO or LFO rate, VCO CrossMod, VCO to VCF, Keyboard to Env, reverse Velocity to env attack, AfterTouch to PW etc... You name it...)

- Add different Modes like Unison, Duo, Quad and maybe 16voices using only 1 "channel" or a half voice card)

I guess those could be done only with a Micro control firmware update.

I also dream you could some how change the internal routing of the voices with different Voices Modes.
(like parallel or serial filters of each one or both VCO etc... again like the Chroma wink Or even OSC Sync or Vcos ring mod.

But I reckon these last won't be possible without changing the hardware.

Anyway just my two cents.

I mean if you bring back CS80 is just awesome but If you increase it with the Chroma-like Mods matrix and function and the sound and the control interface of the CS80,

Man That could be the best synth ever in the Universe!!!

Anyway I'll probably get one.

Cheers
dopefiend
MinoLoco wrote:
roman_f wrote:
the VCO has a 30uS spike on a saw-wave, filters don't self-oscillate


i have ordered 3D-modelling of every single part of the kit to make a super detailed step-by-step build instruction manual, it would be easy process for anyone.


Hi Roman,

First congrats on that ambitious project. And thanks you for trying to bring back THE Legend.

As far as we can tell it could be very close to the sound and design/functionality.

But wouldn't it be a great opportunity to improve the the original design?

As It seems to me that the big difference with cs80 is of course preset memory and so analog voices (VCOs VCFs VCAs) will be digitally controlled.

That means the envelopes will be digital I guess... And the fact that there are these 16 assignable (?) Input for CV on the expansion unit means again "Software"/digital control again i guess.

Could all that mean that you could somehow improve the original design by for instance:

- Increase the range of the original envelopes
(known to be quite short unlike the CS70m for instance with the x5 option)

- Include more Modulation options/routing or even a Mod Matrix with polarity a la Chroma.
(like Env to VCO or LFO rate, VCO CrossMod, VCO to VCF, Keyboard to Env, reverse Velocity to env attack, AfterTouch to PW etc... You name it...)

- Add different Modes like Unison, Duo, Quad and maybe 16voices using only 1 "channel" or a half voice card)

I guess those could be done only with a Micro control firmware update.

I also dream you could some how change the internal routing of the voices with different Voices Modes.
(like parallel or serial filters of each one or both VCO etc... again like the Chroma wink Or even OSC Sync or Vcos ring mod.

But I reckon these last won't be possible without changing the hardware.

Anyway just my two cents.

I mean if you bring back CS80 is just awesome but If you increase it with the Chroma-like Mods matrix and function and the sound and the control interface of the CS80,

Man That could be the best synth ever in the Universe!!!

Anyway I'll probably get one.

Cheers


Quite true. Although I love mine, I've always been frustrated by the very-short time range of the EG segments. I also own a Chroma, and its modulation and voice architecture layout options are superb, making it way more powerful than the Yamaha. The chroma is a sadly underappreciated monster poly, with a superb weighted keyboard and poly-AT. And you can get 3 of them in great shape for the price of an "acceptable" CS80.
MinoLoco
Hey Dopefiend!

Holysmoke I envy your to have both those polymonsters in your arsenal love

I know the chroma seems to be a fantastic Synth and sounds incredibly rich but the programming interface looks like a bitch and too bad the stepping parameters like VCF res...

But I have been considering buying one for a long time now but I'm still afraid of these limitations and to spend big bucks on it with the reliability in the future...

Does it have rare parts like the CS80? At least it doesn't have that dreadful spaghetti insides like the yamaha.

As for the limitations on the Chroma programming does the CC+ and midicontroler thing really cover for it? Cause I saw a video with BCR and it was not very fluid I think.
basehead617
I have to say.... maybe I'm easily impressed, but I nearly teared up at the sound of the first audio Roman posted.
tito_tunes
Will this have a CV in for aftertouch? Or some sort of CV controlled modulation bus?
fluffymuff
Looks like presale starts tomorrow 6pm Tokyo time - https://www.instagram.com/p/BTmAso1BINN/

... but looking at when that was posted (around midnight in Tokyo) could mean Wednesday OR Thursday Dead Banana
The Disquiet
very interesting, but I'm slightly worried about the intonation problems I'm hearing in some of the demos... Due to beta version of the control software, or is the prototype not properly tuned yet?
wagoo
Looks like preorders are live It's peanut butter jelly time!
PYJAMAGROOVE
As a CS80 owner I must admit that some of the presents sound extremely close. Fantastic job. we're not worthy
If they would replicate the original presets it would be killer.

Now what it should also have is an optional 224-like reverb card to complete that "certain classic 80s sound"...Call it a Deckard's Dream with an "Large Greek Hall" reverb....
ualslosar
Where do I pre-order, please?

Thanks
Larry
yan6
[Url]Deckardsdream.com[/url]
justscratch
http://www.deckardsdream.com/
bkbirge
Looks like output is mono? I see an expander port, will that have individual outs for the 8 voices? The DIY version is pricey but still tempting, the fully built I think I'd wait to see reviews in the wild before plunking down that much cash.
ualslosar
Thanks for the website.

Pre-order only for completed units at the moment.
ualslosar
Update - Not just for completed units.

Go to "Store" and find pcbs as well as completed units.
numbertalk
http://www.deckardsdream.com/product/deckards-dream-kit
nvining
CS80 owner thoughts:

It looks like they chose to use the recently re-issued Curtis CEM3340 oscillators as their VCO, and then elected to reintroduce the waveshaper defects (the 30 usec ramp, etc.) after the fact. Interesting. Compare this to http://www.cs80.com/vco.html and the CS80 service manual, which show that it's a charge pump, saw-core oscillator. I wonder why it was done this way? It probably also means that internally Deckard isn't running on Hz/V and is running as V/Oct, which makes me worry about the behavior of the eventual pitch ribbon.

The filters don't sound quite right, either. Compare to Scott Rider's CS80 Shruthi board: http://www.cs80.com/shruthi/ which instantly screams CS80 to me, much more than Deckard does, despite putting totally different digitally generated waveforms through it. It seems like it's missing a thunkiness or something; part of that thunkiness may be because the ring modulator isn't there yet.

It's a difficult situation. I think if you're going to try to take down the king, you'd better come at him with everything you've got. I'm going to get one anyway, because frankly it's still an amazing piece of engineering and it's certainly good enough to gig, but it isn't quite at the point where I can sell my CS80 and stop lugging around a 220lb behemoth that may die at any moment.

Oh well, there's always Scott's CS(R)-80...
phutureboy
PYJAMAGROOVE wrote:
As a CS80 owner I must admit that some of the presents sound extremely close.

As a CS-80 owner I'd say this sounds closer to the real thing than those videos :
bkbirge
The front page on the Deckard site says...
"Replicants are not Clones"

And then the FAQ, in response to "Is this a clone?" says...
We were inspired by this wonderful synthesizer when were designing the Deckard’s Dream, but had to do everything from scratch. No single part of a circuit is equal to the CS-80, first of all because it was done using custom and exclusive chips back in the 70s. However we did pay attention to many details of the synth architecture, oscillator waveshapes (like the sawtooth glitch which is a big part of the CS-80 sound), filter topology and of course the modulation possibilities. With the help of modern technology, it became possible to have the same level of expression as the CS-80. However MPE technology this expression even further with the addition of polyphonic pitchbend etc. Despite all this, please don’t expect exactly the same behavior – even if it is very close, it’s still a very modern synthesizer.
ZZ Ardoz
phutureboy wrote:
PYJAMAGROOVE wrote:
As a CS80 owner I must admit that some of the presents sound extremely close.
As a CS-80 owner I'd say this sounds closer to the real thing than those videos :


I'm very happy with my ME80

Still though, this would look lovely in the collection...
visible cow
Unless I'm misreading the site, it looks like the built unit is about $1200 cheaper than the $5000 mentioned earlier (around $1200 for preorder plus an additional $2500 or so...). I think it sounds fantastic though I have no experience with a cs80.
phutureboy
@bkbirge
Thanks for mentioning, sounds like it's an accurate clarification.
sinowhy
nvining wrote:
CS80 owner thoughts:

It looks like they chose to use the recently re-issued Curtis CEM3340 oscillators as their VCO, and then elected to reintroduce the waveshaper defects (the 30 usec ramp, etc.) after the fact. Interesting. Compare this to http://www.cs80.com/vco.html and the CS80 service manual, which show that it's a charge pump, saw-core oscillator. I wonder why it was done this way? It probably also means that internally Deckard isn't running on Hz/V and is running as V/Oct, which makes me worry about the behavior of the eventual pitch ribbon.

The filters don't sound quite right, either. Compare to Scott Rider's CS80 Shruthi board: http://www.cs80.com/shruthi/ which instantly screams CS80 to me, much more than Deckard does, despite putting totally different digitally generated waveforms through it. It seems like it's missing a thunkiness or something; part of that thunkiness may be because the ring modulator isn't there yet.


I was wondering about that VCO too, is this the very first new poly based off the CEM3340 reissue? that was unexpected.. and kind of a big deal?

What did he do to modify the CEM3340 sound to invoke the yamaha?

I chalked the demo sound difference up to its use of tight sequenced arps and open rez filter.. but after listening to that demo I'd be interested in knowing how the filter topology is at approaching that mellow CS sound.
Is the deckard an attempt at a discrete version of the CS IC? like a GX1? or, like the CEM3340 VCO, is it a different filter approach and the 'topology' comment in the FAQ is a reference to the voicing and modulation layout of the CS?
dougt
I don't get this. If you're not going to come close to the original circuits why not just build a controller?
SynthBaron
CEM3340's and SSM2164's...I guess that kinda answers my question about why there's way less parts than the originals.
SynthBaron
dougt wrote:
I don't get this. If you're not going to come close to the original circuits why not just build a controller?


Probably the least profitable part.
SynthBaron
phutureboy wrote:
PYJAMAGROOVE wrote:
As a CS80 owner I must admit that some of the presents sound extremely close.

As a CS-80 owner I'd say this sounds closer to the real thing than those videos :


First time I've ever come across this VA, and after listening to the demos on the site it's the most spot-on softsynth I've ever heard. Just nails that CS filter sound perfectly.
nvining
SynthBaron wrote:
CEM3340's and SSM2164's...I guess that kinda answers my question about why there's way less parts than the originals.


(Disclaimer: I am clearly turning into One Of Those People Who Overanalyze Synthesizers.)

To be clear, I think there's no problem with the 2164 here. My guess is that it's used for the VCF as well as the VCAs, which makes perfect sense - Scott Rider's MOTM480 mk. ii is also based around the V2164. It's a good, useful part. If you ask Dr. Sketch-and-Etch here nicely, he will spend multiple hours telling you how good it is. It's the CEM that is confusing everybody.

An additional point that was made on AH which I hadn't thought of: because the CS80's VCOs use the Hz/V standard, you don't get linear detuning effects. As the late great Jurgen Haible noted: "Offset voltages are a big issue along the CV path in that synth [the CS80], and must be carefully trimmed. What portion of it is left untrimmed, will result in "linear detuning". It makes a CS-80 with its 2 VCOs per voice sound huge - the smaller ones, less so."

If I had to guess why the CEM was used, and then had custom waveshapers put on it, it's to minimize the need for temperature control circuitry. The CS-80s VCOs use a charge pump oscillator design (hence the little 30 usec tick on the saw wave); the only other design I know of in a shipping synth that uses that is the Rhodes Chroma. You can read a description of its VCO here:

http://www.rhodeschroma.com/?id=chamberlin

In this case, the Chroma VCO has a standard exponential converter made out of a matched transistor pair, with a tempco resistor stuck on it. The CEM3340 theoretically does all that for you on board, hence no need for a tempco, just a good autotune routine.

My bigger worry about the filter is that it is missing a certain liquid quackiness. Listen to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KR_c6fPnlFA, which has the resonance cranked up. I haven't heard any of the demos where it has that characteristic metallic skronky goodness. On the CS80 this really shows up on the "Funky 1" and "Funky 2" presets.

That said, the question that we should be asking is "is this cool on its own right?" What we're getting is... more like a Voyetra-8, I guess. That's not necessarily a bad thing.
dopefiend
phutureboy wrote:
PYJAMAGROOVE wrote:
As a CS80 owner I must admit that some of the presents sound extremely close.

As a CS-80 owner I'd say this sounds closer to the real thing than those videos :


Damn, you're right! That's pretty close to the original article.... applause
gosh
I'm loving this synth, especially the modern nature if it i.e MPE. Seriously tempted but another part of me wonders whether to spend abit more and get a Code 8 for occasional multitimbral duty...and muddled together MPE using 8x the same patches. Aargh, I hate gear choices!
NS4W
How much will a total DIY version be? Any good estimates?

999$ for the kit + TH parts? + case?
Scot Solida
NS4W wrote:
How much will a total DIY version be? Any good estimates?

999$ for the kit + TH parts? + case?


They estimate that the additional stuff will run about a thousand bucks.
ZZ Ardoz
NS4W wrote:
How much will a total DIY version be? Any good estimates?

999$ for the kit + TH parts? + case?


on the site he estimates another 1000 for panel, psu, case and parts
oldgearguy
some savings can be had by buying the v2164 in bulk (100+). The price drops from $7.80/chip to $1.95/chip. When you have to buy 59 of them, that matters (plus the $15/chip for the 17 3340's)
latigid on
Hmmm, I'm a bit on the fence. 1k for a PCB set when the massive TTSH one plus a case and panel was $600? I'm not discounting the real expenses here, which are the development costs of making something like the first DIY analogue polysynth. Any others? Ambika I suppose? It's not enough to punch the board area into PCBshopper and complain, but there is a limit as to how much DIY builders can bear.

It has plenty of DACs and VCAs, but I'd like to understand the circuit more. Are the envelopes original or digitally driven? What's the filter topology, and how does it compare?

Mechanically, how stable are the PCBs for the voice boards when mounted to a vertical face? Is there some sort of secondary fixing point? How is the heat management done? Is a fan required?

Can you just put the guts of a CS-80 (or a facsimile) into a box and call it a day? Or is the experience more about interacting with an instrument including huge panel, pitch ribbon etc.?
windspirit
Ambika is a hybrid. Can you imagine how many CEM chips were peobably fried trying to get this thing to work?
lupito
latigid on wrote:
What's the filter topology, and how does it compare?


From the designer: in Deckard "the IG00156 [CS Filter chip] topology is reproduced with discrete components"
nadafarms
I want to buy one, The pre-order for a completed synth is so much more but I can't even build a birdhouse...

Will people really save much building it themselves? Would it be cheaper to pay someone in the USA to build it?

I can't believe he hasn't posted more demos yet though Dead Banana
dopefiend
He needs to post demos of lush pads, with strings that turn into screaming brass by pushing on the key, a la Vangelis. In other words, he needs to try to show off the ability of this thing to sound like Vangelis. Think of anyone else who made more extensive use of this beast in his recordings than the Greek God. If this box sounds anything like those records, then he has a hit....but we need to hear it.
ZZ Ardoz
edit: see that synthcube has set up chip deals
muffdiver
There are some demos on the site; many of which are great sounding.

That said, seems like there aren't much showing off the bottom octave growl. If the social media channel pics are any indication, only a 2 octave keyboard was used to make the demos. Would be much better for a 5 or 6 octave to get a sense of the full tracking range of VCOs and aforementioned low end brassy growl.

Also really curious about the MPE support and some demos showing that off. It's a big selling point for the synth at this point.
SynthBaron
dopefiend wrote:
He needs to post demos of lush pads, with strings that turn into screaming brass by pushing on the key, a la Vangelis. In other words, he needs to try to show off the ability of this thing to sound like Vangelis. Think of anyone else who made more extensive use of this beast in his recordings than the Greek God. If this box sounds anything like those records, then he has a hit....but we need to hear it.


lol, that about sums it up.
diophantine
For those who plan to build but don't frequent the DIY forum, synthcube has set up group buys for some of the chips:

CEM3340 - https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=181661
V2164 - https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=181664
SynthBaron
muffdiver wrote:
There are some demos on the site; many of which are great sounding.

That said, seems like there aren't much showing off the bottom octave growl.


I think if someone said that the demos on the site were of a modern reissue of the Polymoog, I wouldn't doubt them.
sduck
nadafarms wrote:
I want to buy one, The pre-order for a completed synth is so much more but I can't even build a birdhouse...


Then don't buy just the DIY version - you're going to want some years of successful smaller DIY builds before attempting something of this magnitude and having any hope of pulling it off. Otherwise you'll just be sitting on the boards forever an/or selling them eventually. Or get incredibly frustrated with the amount of troubleshooting you have to do.

nadafarms wrote:
Will people really save much building it themselves?


Depends how you value your time. As far as actual expense goes, it'll be cheaper, but the time factor - it's going to take a long time to build.

nadafarms wrote:
Would it be cheaper to pay someone in the USA to build it?


Good luck finding someone who'll build a diy version cheaper than the the preassembled version. No one that I know of with an adequate reputation for custom DIY builds will do it for less than the preassembled version.
Vast_Halo
sduck wrote:
you're going to want some years of successful smaller DIY builds before attempting something of this magnitude and having any hope of pulling it off.


So, you don't give credence to the website's claim that "[a] very detailed building manual, large thru-hole components and a simple calibration procedure will allow even beginners to build this kit"?
needspeed
Vast_Halo wrote:
sduck wrote:
you're going to want some years of successful smaller DIY builds before attempting something of this magnitude and having any hope of pulling it off.


So, you don't give credence to the website's claim that "[a] very detailed building manual, large thru-hole components and a simple calibration procedure will allow even beginners to build this kit"?


This is a very large DIY project with a parts count through the roof.

In the end, human error is what will get folks with little to no experience. Even those with great experience make mistakes.

One resistor placed in the wrong spot will wreck your day. There are many threads where folks have problems only to find out after posting pics that they have an IC in backwards.

So simple is relative to how exacting you are with each component both putting it in the right spot, orientation where applicable and clean soldering. Multiply that all out and it aint simple anymore.

Plus this is a new design, which means that once in the wild, experienced builders will end up debugging version 1 as it would be a miracle if the architecture and engineering is released perfectly first time out.......Steve
sduck
Vast_Halo wrote:
sduck wrote:
you're going to want some years of successful smaller DIY builds before attempting something of this magnitude and having any hope of pulling it off.


So, you don't give credence to the website's claim that "[a] very detailed building manual, large thru-hole components and a simple calibration procedure will allow even beginners to build this kit"?


With due respect to RomanF, no.
drutil
I've scoured this forum in case someone has answered this already and couldn't find it.. but my apologies if has been:

Is the expander module sold separately? If so, how much and how soon will it be made available? Will it also be DIY?

Thanks
ZZ Ardoz
drutil wrote:
I've scoured this forum in case someone has answered this already and couldn't find it.. but my apologies if has been:

Is the expander module sold separately? If so, how much and how soon will it be made available? Will it also be DIY?

Thanks


roman_f wrote:

- 1u expansion module following the main unit, with analogue effects, assignable CV/GATE inputs and desktop ribbon controller (will connect to the expander via cable)


No word of date or price yet
nadafarms
sduck wrote:
nadafarms wrote:
I want to buy one, The pre-order for a completed synth is so much more but I can't even build a birdhouse...


Then don't buy just the DIY version - you're going to want some years of successful smaller DIY builds before attempting something of this magnitude and having any hope of pulling it off. Otherwise you'll just be sitting on the boards forever an/or selling them eventually. Or get incredibly frustrated with the amount of troubleshooting you have to do.

nadafarms wrote:
Will people really save much building it themselves?


Depends how you value your time. As far as actual expense goes, it'll be cheaper, but the time factor - it's going to take a long time to build.

nadafarms wrote:
Would it be cheaper to pay someone in the USA to build it?


Good luck finding someone who'll build a diy version cheaper than the the preassembled version. No one that I know of with an adequate reputation for custom DIY builds will do it for less than the preassembled version.


thanks, that makes me feel better buying a preassembled one Rockin' Banana!
ualslosar
- It's only a Replicant, not a Clone.

Will this Deckard's Dream project inspire Behringer, Yamaha or others to actually release a CS-80 with keyboard?
Globus
I don't know if anyone at Yamaha is even aware that they ever made anything remotely as good as CS-80. They need to unfuck themselves.
And the thought of Behringer getting their dirty meathooks on the CS-80 is a painful one
JohnLRice
PYJAMAGROOVE wrote:
Now what it should also have is an optional 224-like reverb card to complete that "certain classic 80s sound"...Call it a Deckard's Dream with an "Large Greek Hall" reverb....
Just for demo purposes and for what it's worth (since I don't know if it has anything to do with the sound of a 224 or not), but RomanF has a couple Meris Mercury7 500 series reverbs on the way and they are "Inspired by the 1982 Bladerunner film soundtrack"

Sez ANGELO MAZZOCCO, DSP ENGINEER:
I get inspired every time I hear Vangelis’s use of reverb on the original Blade Runner soundtrack. It never gets old. I designed the Mercury7’s algorithms to bring those same extra long decays and lush modulated reflections to the pedal world.

https://www.meris.us/products/
rowsbywoof
JohnLRice wrote:
PYJAMAGROOVE wrote:
Now what it should also have is an optional 224-like reverb card to complete that "certain classic 80s sound"...Call it a Deckard's Dream with an "Large Greek Hall" reverb....
Just for demo purposes and for what it's worth (since I don't know if it has anything to do with the sound of a 224 or not), but RomanF has a couple Meris Mercury7 500 series reverbs on the way and they are "Inspired by the 1982 Bladerunner film soundtrack"

Sez ANGELO MAZZOCCO, DSP ENGINEER:
I get inspired every time I hear Vangelis’s use of reverb on the original Blade Runner soundtrack. It never gets old. I designed the Mercury7’s algorithms to bring those same extra long decays and lush modulated reflections to the pedal world.

https://www.meris.us/products/


The Mercury 7s have been on my want list for a while. Haha, love their sound, and never knew they based it after Bladerunner. That's pretty cool.

Well, hope we get some new demos soon, then.
Sir Ruff
Globus wrote:
I don't know if anyone at Yamaha is even aware that they ever made anything remotely as good as CS-80. They need to unfuck themselves.
And the thought of Behringer getting their dirty meathooks on the CS-80 is a painful one


I genuinely think the CS-80 is one of the most overhyped, over-rated, and mis-understood analog polys of all time. Most of us have naturally never played one and never well. However, I would bet most of us couldn't even name more than one or two songs (AFTER the Blade Runner soundtrack) where it features prominently, let along pick one out in the odd song.

Offhand, two of the most popular songs that I can think of that used one prominently are McCartney - Wonderful Christmas Time, and Bruce S. - Born in the USA. The first example is laughable. The second one I think is funny because I only learned this about a week ago, and until then always thought it was a Prophet-5. Hardly "trademark sound" territory in either case.

It's become the behemoth it is mainly because of the size and the now insane price, and I don't think we really need more clone competition. But I do think this Deckard project really missed the mark by not including the ring-mod in the main unit, which is probably the most interesting part of the CS-series. As-is, it's just kind of an expensive, mediocre polysynth with a somewhat interesting filter structure and envelope times that are way too fast to allow for the epic pad/filter sweep sounds that I imagine most people think it does.
ZZ Ardoz
Sir Ruff wrote:
Globus wrote:
I don't know if anyone at Yamaha is even aware that they ever made anything remotely as good as CS-80. They need to unfuck themselves.
And the thought of Behringer getting their dirty meathooks on the CS-80 is a painful one


I genuinely think the CS-80 is one of the most overhyped, over-rated, and mis-understood analog polys of all time. Most of us have naturally never played one and never well. However, I would bet most of us couldn't even name more than one or two songs (AFTER the Blade Runner soundtrack) where it features prominently, let along pick one out in the odd song.

Offhand, two of the most popular songs that I can think of that used one prominently are McCartney - Wonderful Christmas Time, and Bruce S. - Born in the USA. The first example is laughable. The second one I think is funny because I only learned this about a week ago, and until then always thought it was a Prophet-5. Hardly "trademark sound" territory in either case.

It's become the behemoth it is mainly because of the size and the now insane price, and I don't think we really need more clone competition. But I do think this Deckard project really missed the mark by not including the ring-mod in the main unit, which is probably the most interesting part of the CS-series. As-is, it's just kind of an expensive, mediocre polysynth with a somewhat interesting filter structure and envelope times that are way too fast to allow for the epic pad/filter sweep sounds that I imagine most people think it does.


I would mention "What a Fool Believes" as a notable CS-80 song, but you might think I was having a go at you hihi
Sir Ruff
ZZ Ardoz wrote:
I would mention "What a Fool Believes" as a notable CS-80 song, but you might think I was having a go at you hihi


haha, did not know that... Further proof of my point! hihi
sduck
All the Eddie Jobson stuff in UK, Jethro Tull, Zappa and the other early stuff he was on was all CS80. The Holdsworth/Jobson sound on the UK albums is amazing!
JohnLRice
sduck wrote:
All the Eddie Jobson stuff in UK, Jethro Tull, Zappa and the other early stuff he was on was all CS80. The Holdsworth/Jobson sound on the UK albums is amazing!
haha! I was just going to post something similar! hihi thumbs up When I think of CS80 I think of the first UK album first! we're not worthy


Eddie Jobson:
"I was also lucky enough to time the formation of UK with the first introduction of the Yamaha CS80 polyphonic synthesizer, so that helped give me a distinctive new sound with which to start writing the UK material. There’s no question that instrument inspired the writing of “Alaska,” “In The Dead of Night,” “Danger Money,” “Carrying No Cross,” and years later, the entire Green Album." - Interview - Keyboardmag.com
pulse_divider
Sir Ruff wrote:
Globus wrote:
I don't know if anyone at Yamaha is even aware that they ever made anything remotely as good as CS-80. They need to unfuck themselves.
And the thought of Behringer getting their dirty meathooks on the CS-80 is a painful one


I genuinely think the CS-80 is one of the most overhyped, over-rated, and mis-understood analog polys of all time. Most of us have naturally never played one and never well. However, I would bet most of us couldn't even name more than one or two songs (AFTER the Blade Runner soundtrack) where it features prominently, let along pick one out in the odd song.

Offhand, two of the most popular songs that I can think of that used one prominently are McCartney - Wonderful Christmas Time, and Bruce S. - Born in the USA. The first example is laughable. The second one I think is funny because I only learned this about a week ago, and until then always thought it was a Prophet-5. Hardly "trademark sound" territory in either case.

It's become the behemoth it is mainly because of the size and the now insane price, and I don't think we really need more clone competition. But I do think this Deckard project really missed the mark by not including the ring-mod in the main unit, which is probably the most interesting part of the CS-series. As-is, it's just kind of an expensive, mediocre polysynth with a somewhat interesting filter structure and envelope times that are way too fast to allow for the epic pad/filter sweep sounds that I imagine most people think it does.


I owned a CS80 for 8ish years and I kind of agree with you to a certain extent about it being totally overhyped mostly due to rarity but it is unique in its feature combination.
Don't get me wrong, it's a really nice synth but it's definitely a "sum is greater than the total of its parts" machine, the entire experience is great but none of the individual parts are blow-me-away great.

As far as popular music goes, I'm pretty sure that Toto's Africa and J Geils Band's Love Stinks had prominent solos from the CS-80 and TBH I found it much easier to coax those sounds out of it than the Vangelis/Eno sounds I was looking for. I tend to think of the most characteristic synths as having souls and I always think of the CS-80 as having the soul of Toto.

A few years after selling my 80 I picked up a CS-70m and I think it sounds better than the 80; whereas the 80 is brash, the 70m is soft and spacey. The 70m I think of as having the soul of Boards of Canada.
I'm not saying it's a better synth than the 80, as the 80 kicks its ass in the UI and feature department (keyboard, ribbon, more flexible filter topology and one control per function) and the 70m has all the weird annoying early-digital quirks, but I think the 70m is a better sounding synth and much more suited to the type of music most people here seem to make. The 80 is a better synth for classically-trained keyboard rippers, but for untalented drone hacks like me the 70m is much more appropriate. I've never timed the envelopes but I wouldn't be surprised if they topped out at several minutes at max settings.

It's funny because ever since I started getting into synths 20 years ago the internet and available synth literature have overwhelming concluded that the 70m is just a pale imitation to the throne of the 80 and as soon as I was able to try both it was no contest as to which I prefer. But I also think the JP4 is a better sounding and more fun synth than the JP8 so conventional wisdom would prove me to be a heretical idiot.

I do think it's cool that the Deckard's Dream is happening, though, and its native support of MPE is the most exciting feature in my book.
ultravox
pulse_divider wrote:

...I always think of the CS-80 as having the soul of Toto.


When Toto IV was released I was a junior in high school and it was an instant must have album for me. Before that I used to sing 99 to my girlfriend who was a junior varsity cheerleader. Toto has been a musical inspiration and last year I picked up Toto IV on vinyl again.

So yes, those are the sounds I'm seeking and if Deckard's Dream can come close then it'll be like a high school reunion...and those sounds definitely have a place in my music! thumbs up
pulse_divider
ultravox wrote:
pulse_divider wrote:

...I always think of the CS-80 as having the soul of Toto.


When Toto IV was released I was a junior in high school and it was an instant must have album for me. Before that I used to sing 99 to my girlfriend who was a junior varsity cheerleader. Toto has been a musical inspiration and last year I picked up Toto IV on vinyl again.

So yes, those are the sounds I'm seeking and if Deckard's Dream can come close then it'll be like a high school reunion...and those sounds definitely have a place in my music! thumbs up


Great! I imagine that if it sounds at all like the CS-80 and if you use it with a keyboard with poly aftertouch (or even better, MPE) you'll be good.

Just for the record so I'm not labeled as a hipster snob (one could make a case for the snob part but definitely not hipster), I like Toto and J Geils Band and might be the only person on Muffs that likes that McCartney Xmas song but have neither the skills nor inclination to play that style of music and I think that's what the CS-80 does best. But of course it's a synthesizer and can theoretically sound like anything so operator skill will always be the most significant factor.
ultravox
pulse_divider wrote:
ultravox wrote:
pulse_divider wrote:

...I always think of the CS-80 as having the soul of Toto.


When Toto IV was released I was a junior in high school and it was an instant must have album for me. Before that I used to sing 99 to my girlfriend who was a junior varsity cheerleader. Toto has been a musical inspiration and last year I picked up Toto IV on vinyl again.

So yes, those are the sounds I'm seeking and if Deckard's Dream can come close then it'll be like a high school reunion...and those sounds definitely have a place in my music! thumbs up


Great! I imagine that if it sounds at all like the CS-80 and if you use it with a keyboard with poly aftertouch (or even better, MPE) you'll be good.

Just for the record so I'm not labeled as a hipster snob (one could make a case for the snob part but definitely not hipster), I like Toto and J Geils Band and might be the only person on Muffs that likes that McCartney Xmas song but have neither the skills nor inclination to play that style of music and I think that's what the CS-80 does best. But of course it's a synthesizer and can theoretically sound like anything so operator skill will always be the most significant factor.


McCartney's Xmas song is a classic and I like it too. I'll get a Seaboard Rise when I take delivery of the kit. I'm really looking forward to this.
dopefiend
pulse_divider wrote:
Sir Ruff wrote:
Globus wrote:
I don't know if anyone at Yamaha is even aware that they ever made anything remotely as good as CS-80. They need to unfuck themselves.
And the thought of Behringer getting their dirty meathooks on the CS-80 is a painful one


I genuinely think the CS-80 is one of the most overhyped, over-rated, and mis-understood analog polys of all time. Most of us have naturally never played one and never well. However, I would bet most of us couldn't even name more than one or two songs (AFTER the Blade Runner soundtrack) where it features prominently, let along pick one out in the odd song.

Offhand, two of the most popular songs that I can think of that used one prominently are McCartney - Wonderful Christmas Time, and Bruce S. - Born in the USA. The first example is laughable. The second one I think is funny because I only learned this about a week ago, and until then always thought it was a Prophet-5. Hardly "trademark sound" territory in either case.

It's become the behemoth it is mainly because of the size and the now insane price, and I don't think we really need more clone competition. But I do think this Deckard project really missed the mark by not including the ring-mod in the main unit, which is probably the most interesting part of the CS-series. As-is, it's just kind of an expensive, mediocre polysynth with a somewhat interesting filter structure and envelope times that are way too fast to allow for the epic pad/filter sweep sounds that I imagine most people think it does.


I owned a CS80 for 8ish years and I kind of agree with you to a certain extent about it being totally overhyped mostly due to rarity but it is unique in its feature combination.
Don't get me wrong, it's a really nice synth but it's definitely a "sum is greater than the total of its parts" machine, the entire experience is great but none of the individual parts are blow-me-away great.

As far as popular music goes, I'm pretty sure that Toto's Africa and J Geils Band's Love Stinks had prominent solos from the CS-80 and TBH I found it much easier to coax those sounds out of it than the Vangelis/Eno sounds I was looking for. I tend to think of the most characteristic synths as having souls and I always think of the CS-80 as having the soul of Toto.

A few years after selling my 80 I picked up a CS-70m and I think it sounds better than the 80; whereas the 80 is brash, the 70m is soft and spacey. The 70m I think of as having the soul of Boards of Canada.
I'm not saying it's a better synth than the 80, as the 80 kicks its ass in the UI and feature department (keyboard, ribbon, more flexible filter topology and one control per function) and the 70m has all the weird annoying early-digital quirks, but I think the 70m is a better sounding synth and much more suited to the type of music most people here seem to make. The 80 is a better synth for classically-trained keyboard rippers, but for untalented drone hacks like me the 70m is much more appropriate. I've never timed the envelopes but I wouldn't be surprised if they topped out at several minutes at max settings.

It's funny because ever since I started getting into synths 20 years ago the internet and available synth literature have overwhelming concluded that the 70m is just a pale imitation to the throne of the 80 and as soon as I was able to try both it was no contest as to which I prefer. But I also think the JP4 is a better sounding and more fun synth than the JP8 so conventional wisdom would prove me to be a heretical idiot.

I do think it's cool that the Deckard's Dream is happening, though, and its native support of MPE is the most exciting feature in my book.


I agree partially with aforementioned opinions. The voice structure of the CS80 is very simple, with very few modulation options. The EG's have very short segments, and the presets are cheesy and thin. But when properly tweaked, it can sound majestic, and sitting in front of one (in good shape, of course) and playing its great-feeling keyboard is a delightful experience. It's like playing a fine acoustic piano: it's huge, heavy, expensive and it has only that one sound: CS80. I currently own (and have in the past) way fatter synths: the A6, the Waldorf Wave, the Rhodes Chroma, to name a few. But I still love my CS80 and would never consider selling it (I already made the mistake of selling another one a few years back to buy a very-disappointing PS-3200). To be able to bring back the whole CS80 experience, you need a keyboard instrument. Doesn't have to weigh 220 lbs or go out of tune every 30 mins, but at least a weighed keyboard, polyAT, ribbon controller and big, chunky sliders. Otherwise, just get yourselves a Rev2 or an old Andromeda.
nadafarms
it's easy to overlook effects and the recording process, I've heard some REALLY bad dry demos of the cs80 on youtube... the cs60 I played in person extensively sounded kinda bad dry too.

I'm sure it doesn't hurt to have an expensive lexicon reverb, ssl console, compressor, record to tape and get mastered... to give you that authentic cs80 bladerunner sound

Dead Banana
dopefiend
nadafarms wrote:
it's easy to overlook effects and the recording process, I've heard some REALLY bad dry demos of the cs80 on youtube... the cs60 I played in person extensively sounded kinda bad dry too.

I'm sure it doesn't hurt to have an expensive lexicon reverb, ssl console, compressor, record to tape and get mastered... to give you that authentic cs80 bladerunner sound

Dead Banana


Yep. Very true. Make your own patches and use good quality outboard signal processing.
needspeed
Sir Ruff wrote:
Globus wrote:
I don't know if anyone at Yamaha is even aware that they ever made anything remotely as good as CS-80. They need to unfuck themselves.
And the thought of Behringer getting their dirty meathooks on the CS-80 is a painful one


I genuinely think the CS-80 is one of the most overhyped, over-rated, and mis-understood analog polys of all time. Most of us have naturally never played one and never well. However, I would bet most of us couldn't even name more than one or two songs (AFTER the Blade Runner soundtrack) where it features prominently, let along pick one out in the odd song.

Offhand, two of the most popular songs that I can think of that used one prominently are McCartney - Wonderful Christmas Time, and Bruce S. - Born in the USA. The first example is laughable. The second one I think is funny because I only learned this about a week ago, and until then always thought it was a Prophet-5. Hardly "trademark sound" territory in either case.

It's become the behemoth it is mainly because of the size and the now insane price, and I don't think we really need more clone competition. But I do think this Deckard project really missed the mark by not including the ring-mod in the main unit, which is probably the most interesting part of the CS-series. As-is, it's just kind of an expensive, mediocre polysynth with a somewhat interesting filter structure and envelope times that are way too fast to allow for the epic pad/filter sweep sounds that I imagine most people think it does.


Thank you for inspiring me to order the kit, I was on the fence before you provided such helpful and immense insight into the true value of the CS-80.

Looking forward to the build.......Have a great weekend........Steve
dopefiend
Come to think of it, the new Novation poly thingie might prove to be a way-better sound module....and cheaper. seriously, i just don't get it
Globus
Why oh why must it always come back to Blade Runner? I prefer Spiral, or most any other album up to Invisible Connections. Jeff Wayne's War of the Worlds was an early exposure of CS-80 for me. I can name a whole lot more than two tracks on which it featured. ELO, TOTO, UK as others have mentioned. Even if it had only ever appeared on McCartney's Christmas song, it would still be the best Poly ever built. I don't believe I have misunderstood or overrated it; I know very well what it is. Perhaps some of us want synthesizers for playing music, others of us prefer them for making funny noises. I appreciate both approaches, but my heart would gravitate towards the more musical side of things.
Sir Ruff
Some good points from Pulse Divider and others. My comments were not meant to be read as an attack on the CS-80 itself (or its users/fans?) but the hype surrounding it. If you know it well and think it's the best synth ever, that's cool. But I think for the average synth fan, the lore/myth of the machine (and thus the desire for a reissue) greatly overshadows/ignores the reality of it as a primarily performance-focused machine, and all the idiosyncrasies that come with it.
Globus
Yes, I am more than a little biased towards it perhaps. But I do think it is the best ever, and there's not much to be done about that I figure. I will say that the current prices are not a good thing. I think it ought to shed several thousand dollars at least. It's possibly true what you say about the lore/myth of it in the minds of many. To me, it is lacking very little, but there's always room for improvement. The trouble with that is, it seems to me it was all downhill from there. Instead of making more elaborate synthesizers, we wound up with ever cheaper, less well appointed, streamlined things. I think there's a place for all of them, sure. But the CS-80 level of instrument needs to be there too. That's the problem as I see it. It's not even there as an option for the buyer. Yet they still make $200,000 pianos.
Globus
I meant that I find current CS-80 prices are a bit high mostly because there aren't sufficient replacement parts available in any meaningful quantities. Even though those rare IC's tend not to fail, it does make for a sticky situation.
Sinamsis
I have to say I don't give a f@#$ about Blade Runner, the fact that my countryman used one, or about the surrounding hype of the CS80. I just love the smoothness of the filter. I've never played a CS-80, but I did get to mess around with a CS-60 in a shop once. It was totally out of tune, and I didn't know much about vintage synths, or synthesis in general at that point, but I really did love the sound. I haven't played any since, but the Arturia emulation was one of my favorites of theres. I've thought about buying an SE Omega/Code just to have a poly with it's filter. Roman says he has tried to reproduce the CS80's filter topology. If it's anywhere close, it might be worth it for me. I just really like the sound.
dubonaire
pulse_divider wrote:
The 70m I think of as having the soul of Boards of Canada.


So true!
SynthBaron
So are people really buying this because they are Blade Runner fans, or Vangelis fans, or CS-80 fans?
GrantB
Vangelis hype aside, this is remarkable because it's a full featured, fully baked VCO polysynth that you can buy new or build yourself.
needspeed
SynthBaron wrote:
So are people really buying this because they are Blade Runner fans, or Vangelis fans, or CS-80 fans?


Agnostic synth fan here, having already a large Eurorack setup and analog monos, acquiring a couple of old school poly analogs would be great adds to my collection.

I find this CS-80 homage intriguing, both as a representative instrument of its time, and a hell of a DIY build.

Wish Moog would do a Memory Moog reissue, I would camp out at the factory waiting on that.......Steve
ultravox
SynthBaron wrote:
So are people really buying this because they are Blade Runner fans, or Vangelis fans, or CS-80 fans?


I like the sounds from the CS-80 and the stellar control panel.
Knights Who Say Neve
I actually owned a CS50, the 4-voice predecessor to the CS60/80, for a hot minute. I couldn't get rid of it fast enough - it weighed a ton, spare parts were unobtainable, and the sound was quite frankly mediocre - more like a home organ than anything I identified as "synth". Granted, it only had 1 OSC per voice, unlike the CS80's two. I did enjoy playing for the brief time I had it - the keys felt good and the pitch ribbon felt great.
Globus
That's funny, I was downstairs playing my CS-50 just now and felt it sounded terrific. Maybe you were doing it wrong during your hot minute? You can definitely get them to sound perhaps not so stellar, with certain settings. The pitch ribbon on mine however is so bad that it's not even on it. Nor was it on any CS-50 for that matter. One thing I will agree with you on is the keys are good. Actually they are better than good.
latigid on
needspeed wrote:
Sir Ruff wrote:
Globus wrote:
I don't know if anyone at Yamaha is even aware that they ever made anything remotely as good as CS-80. They need to unfuck themselves.
And the thought of Behringer getting their dirty meathooks on the CS-80 is a painful one


I genuinely think the CS-80 is one of the most overhyped, over-rated, and mis-understood analog polys of all time. Most of us have naturally never played one and never well. However, I would bet most of us couldn't even name more than one or two songs (AFTER the Blade Runner soundtrack) where it features prominently, let along pick one out in the odd song.

Offhand, two of the most popular songs that I can think of that used one prominently are McCartney - Wonderful Christmas Time, and Bruce S. - Born in the USA. The first example is laughable. The second one I think is funny because I only learned this about a week ago, and until then always thought it was a Prophet-5. Hardly "trademark sound" territory in either case.

It's become the behemoth it is mainly because of the size and the now insane price, and I don't think we really need more clone competition. But I do think this Deckard project really missed the mark by not including the ring-mod in the main unit, which is probably the most interesting part of the CS-series. As-is, it's just kind of an expensive, mediocre polysynth with a somewhat interesting filter structure and envelope times that are way too fast to allow for the epic pad/filter sweep sounds that I imagine most people think it does.


Thank you for inspiring me to order the kit, I was on the fence before you provided such helpful and immense insight into the true value of the CS-80.

Looking forward to the build.......Have a great weekend........Steve


Interesting, the comment from Sir Ruff is pushing me to the other side of the fence. It's what I was asking earlier: is the experience of a CS-80 the whole thing including the keyboard/ribbon/huge control panel or just the sound that comes out? As it is I have a Chroma, Andromeda and P'08 rack already, so this would have to sound very special and offer something different.

I listened to the Soundcloud demos, didn't find anything too wowser. Some people will be up for the soldering challenge, so I get that aspect, but I think 2k+ is better spent on a known working device, e.g. DSI OB-6. IME these large builds elicit a lot of lusting but the barrier to even start is huge. So most of them will stay as unfinished PCBs and bags of Mouser components.

Maybe there's a chance to do an SMT version later on (1206/0805). The parts cost would be less and the physical dimensions smaller, so that's less stress on those card edge connectors.

I'm very much in a wait-and-see mode, so I hope there's more info on the way (better demos, details of the circuit, build experiences etc.).
Happyanimal
Admittedly- don't know a whole lot about MPE and roli. Is a computer/ USB host still necessary if using the seaboard w/Deckard's Dream?
dopefiend
I personally think that the Deckard with a Roli would not be as satisfying an experience as the original article. Pressing a squishy layer of silicon doesn't come close to experiencing it with a nice, weighted, poly-AT keyboard. I know there aren't too many of these, though, and that's frustrating. The VAX-77 project has been met with setback after setback....bummer, cause these instruments look quite promising... seriously, i just don't get it
Sinamsis
Happyanimal wrote:
Admittedly- don't know a whole lot about MPE and roli. Is a computer/ USB host still necessary if using the seaboard w/Deckard's Dream?


You don't need a computer for Roli to work (to edit the Roli you do) but you do need a machine that can accept a USB MIDI controller, which I believe Decker's Dream can.
Sinamsis
dopefiend wrote:
I personally think that the Deckard with a Roli would not be as satisfying an experience as the original article. Pressing a squishy layer of silicon doesn't come close to experiencing it with a nice, weighted, poly-AT keyboard. I know there aren't too many of these, though, and that's frustrating. The VAX-77 project has been met with setback after setback....bummer, cause these instruments look quite promising... seriously, i just don't get it


Yeah, the Rise is just different. Not better or worse, but different. My main complaint with it was the silicon would bunch up often when using pressure and slide. Still, not bad.
dopefiend
Sinamsis wrote:
dopefiend wrote:
I personally think that the Deckard with a Roli would not be as satisfying an experience as the original article. Pressing a squishy layer of silicon doesn't come close to experiencing it with a nice, weighted, poly-AT keyboard. I know there aren't too many of these, though, and that's frustrating. The VAX-77 project has been met with setback after setback....bummer, cause these instruments look quite promising... seriously, i just don't get it


Yeah, the Rise is just different. Not better or worse, but different. My main complaint with it was the silicon would bunch up often when using pressure and slide. Still, not bad.


Mine has started to detach from its base, so doing slides will bunch it up and even peel it off little by little? Anyone having this problem???? seriously, i just don't get it
bkbirge
The Synton keyboard prototype shown at Superbooth would be a good match for this.
ZZ Ardoz
The Roli feels like rubbing stacks of semi-used condoms together. Played mine a couple of times before selling it on
SynthBaron
ZZ Ardoz wrote:
The Roli feels like rubbing stacks of semi-used condoms together. Played mine a couple of times before selling it on


Obviously you don't play keyboard guitar.
ZZ Ardoz
SynthBaron wrote:
ZZ Ardoz wrote:
The Roli feels like rubbing stacks of semi-used condoms together. Played mine a couple of times before selling it on


Obviously you don't play keyboard guitar.


Like this?
Feinstrom
bkbirge wrote:
The Synton keyboard prototype shown at Superbooth would be a good match for this.

If I recall correctly it won't feature polyphonic aftertouch.
I might be wrong, though...

Cheers,
Bert
doombient.music
latigid on wrote:
[...] is the experience of a CS-80 the whole thing including the keyboard/ribbon/huge control panel or just the sound that comes out? [...]


It's the instrument as an entity and the way the player's interface allows you to interact with the instrument and the sound. That's why I keep on asking "what about a keyboard controller that does both polyphonic aftertouch and velocity?" and "what about the ribbon controller?" and "where is the ringmodulator section next to the keyboard?"

The way everything is laid out and responds to you as a player makes the CS stand out -- in some less capable hands, the sound as such can be as nice as it can be fairly bland (or downright terrible).

Over-hyped would be a Roland Juno 6/60.

Stephen
Globus
I must agree. I feel much that way about my CS-50 in comparison to other polyphonic keyboards I own such as OB-Xa, Trident, OB-SX etc. Even with a single oscillator, the 50 reveals himself as a far more lively, and responsive fellow. It just seems to me more organic or alive than the other ones I mentioned, which by contrast seem quite static in their sound and playability.
The CS-50 represents less than a quarter of the CS-80 in it's feature set, but is still a very fine instrument.
PYJAMAGROOVE
Now saying that the CS80 is overhyped and it's only Bladerunnet etc. is great because proving on how many levels wrong this statement is can be done only by actually touching it. That said I can't imagine anyone to play an actual properly set CS80 to not to shit themselves. screaming goo yo
Happyanimal
doombient.music wrote:
latigid on wrote:
[...] is the experience of a CS-80 the whole thing including the keyboard/ribbon/huge control panel or just the sound that comes out? [...]


It's the instrument as an entity and the way the player's interface allows you to interact with the instrument and the sound. That's why I keep on asking "what about a keyboard controller that does both polyphonic aftertouch and velocity?" and "what about the ribbon controller?" and "where is the ringmodulator section next to the keyboard?"

Stephen


Ring mod and ribbon controller are part of the 1u expander unit.
Sir Ruff
Happyanimal wrote:
Ringo mod


It's good you corrected that--Ringo was neither a mod, nor a rocker, but a "mocker" hihi
Happyanimal
Sir Ruff wrote:
Happyanimal wrote:
Ringo mod


It's good you corrected that--Ringo was neither a mod, nor a rocker, but a "mocker" hihi


I knew I was gonna catch sh!t for that.
Sinamsis
dopefiend wrote:
Sinamsis wrote:
dopefiend wrote:
I personally think that the Deckard with a Roli would not be as satisfying an experience as the original article. Pressing a squishy layer of silicon doesn't come close to experiencing it with a nice, weighted, poly-AT keyboard. I know there aren't too many of these, though, and that's frustrating. The VAX-77 project has been met with setback after setback....bummer, cause these instruments look quite promising... seriously, i just don't get it


Yeah, the Rise is just different. Not better or worse, but different. My main complaint with it was the silicon would bunch up often when using pressure and slide. Still, not bad.


Mine has started to detach from its base, so doing slides will bunch it up and even peel it off little by little? Anyone having this problem???? seriously, i just don't get it


That ain't normal but was certainly one of my concerns. Have you contacted Roli?
Knights Who Say Neve
Globus wrote:
That's funny, I was downstairs playing my CS-50 just now and felt it sounded terrific. Maybe you were doing it wrong during your hot minute? You can definitely get them to sound perhaps not so stellar, with certain settings. The pitch ribbon on mine however is so bad that it's not even on it. Nor was it on any CS-50 for that matter. One thing I will agree with you on is the keys are good. Actually they are better than good.


You're correct, the CS50 has no pitch ribbon. I did try a CS60 around the same time, which was 20 years ago, and that's what I was remembering. Otherwise, I stand by my subjective impression of the CS50 and accept yours, minus your dismissive snark.
doombient.music
Happyanimal wrote:
doombient.music wrote:
latigid on wrote:
[...] is the experience of a CS-80 the whole thing including the keyboard/ribbon/huge control panel or just the sound that comes out? [...]


It's the instrument as an entity and the way the player's interface allows you to interact with the instrument and the sound. That's why I keep on asking "what about a keyboard controller that does both polyphonic aftertouch and velocity?" and "what about the ribbon controller?" and "where is the ringmodulator section next to the keyboard?"

Stephen


Ring mod and ribbon controller are part of the 1u expander unit.


So what?

It's somewhere else, out of reach, in a 19" rack, not within 20 centimetres reach off the keyboard, at an ergonomically well laid-out angle.

And why in a name is it an expander? It's an integral part of the instrument. It's like "here's my Mini Moog clone but the oscillator bank is in a different enclosure you have to purchase as an optional extra".

I don't quite get this but never mind, that's only me.

Stephen
MinoLoco
I think the extension rack will only contain the Ring mod sustain selection??? and additional 16 assignable CV input. NO RIBBON very frustrating
Wracked with Guilt
I had no interest in this thing until I listened through the soundcloud demos. Surprisingly, I was really taken by the dry sounds. I wouldn't know if it sounds exactly like a CS-80 but many of the examples had a wonderful plaintive and organic quality with lots of interesting but subtle detail. Definitely closer to Eno's 'Through Hollow Lands' than Bladerunner - which is no bad thing in my book.
Happyanimal
MinoLoco wrote:
I think the extension rack will only contain the Ring mod sustain selection??? and additional 16 assignable CV input. NO RIBBON very frustrating


Roman already stated ribbon will be there- attached to the expander via cable. You can lay it across the top of your desk or above keyboard.
Globus
Oh alright then. Sorry about that, Knights Who Say Neve. I do get a little up in arms about those CS synthesizers. Please accept my apologies for the snark
Globus
It's not only you who doesn't quite get this, Stephen.
As for me, I find it equally mystifying or perhaps even more so, that the sustain mode switch was omitted from the main unit. Perhaps just to further justify the expander unit?
Maybe if the Expander actually had a portamento strip on it, it would be acceptable, but as it is we will need to supply one of our own.
dudeman
Wracked with Guilt wrote:
I had no interest in this thing until I listened through the soundcloud demos. Surprisingly, I was really taken by the dry sounds. I wouldn't know if it sounds exactly like a CS-80 but many of the examples had a wonderful plaintive and organic quality with lots of interesting but subtle detail. Definitely closer to Eno's 'Through Hollow Lands' than Bladerunner - which is no bad thing in my book.


totally agree. really wasn't expecting it sound quite so good!
MinoLoco
Happyanimal wrote:
MinoLoco wrote:
I think the extension rack will only contain the Ring mod sustain selection??? and additional 16 assignable CV input. NO RIBBON very frustrating


Roman already stated ribbon will be there- attached to the expander via cable. You can lay it across the top of your desk or above keyboard.



Allright then Rockin' Banana! I hope it"s gonna behave like the CS enough even with the exponential VCO
roger
GrantB wrote:
Vangelis hype aside, this is remarkable because it's a full featured, fully baked VCO polysynth that you can buy new or build yourself.


This. I don't care much for Vangelis, although I have watched Blade Runner. I'm probably one of the worst keyboard players on this board, but eventually I'm going to build me a kit just because it's a diy polysynth. I going to build it voicecard by voicecard and make cheap, interchangeable techno with it.
bkbirge
roger wrote:
I going to build it voicecard by voicecard and make cheap, interchangeable techno with it.


applause hihi thumbs up
ZZ Ardoz
roger wrote:
GrantB wrote:
Vangelis hype aside, this is remarkable because it's a full featured, fully baked VCO polysynth that you can buy new or build yourself.


This. I don't care much for Vangelis, although I have watched Blade Runner. I'm probably one of the worst keyboard players on this board, but eventually I'm going to build me a kit just because it's a diy polysynth. I going to build it voicecard by voicecard and make cheap, interchangeable techno with it.


I can already get Vangelis jollies with a number of things I have (ME-80 is cheap as chips). I'm getting a DD because I can cover a good chunk of the kit with selling my Juno 106 which I'm not that huge on, and get (at least to my ears) a really nice sounding poly. Just because you can't remake Blade Runner doesn't mean the sequel won't have some nice visuals.
doombient.music
ZZ Ardoz wrote:
[...] I can cover a good chunk of the kit with selling my Juno 106 which I'm not that huge on, and get (at least to my ears) a really nice sounding poly. [...]


You have a point here: Anything is better than a Juno 106.

Viewed from that angle, purchasing the DD is a wise move, and a good addition to the rig it is, too.

Stephen
phutureboy
doombient.music wrote:
I don't quite get this but never mind, that's only me.

Not only you, just sloppy work.

In the best of scenarios people that go for the DD project like roger will be happy :
roger wrote:
I'm going to build me a kit just because it's a diy polysynth. I going to build it voicecard by voicecard and make cheap, interchangeable techno with it.

The others that believe they will end with a CS-80 clone will be disappointed and will feel cheated, but cheated more by their own desire to be blind than by Roman himself who already said he is offering only a CS-80 inspired project, not a CS-80 clone. (as explained in the DD's FAQs)
ZZ Ardoz
phutureboy wrote:

The others that believe they will end with a CS-80 clone will be disappointed and will feel cheated, but cheated more by their own desire to be blind than by Roman himself who already said he is offering only a CS-80 inspired project, not a CS-80 clone. (as explained in the DD's FAQs


100% agree. Nobody should be buying this other than on the strength of the sounds they hear and the feature set. You can get a fresh new CD of the Blade Runner soundtrack for comsiderably less
bkbirge
Could this be the closest yet to a "signature" model synth? The Dave Smith's and Oberheim names don't count, I mean a piece of gear that is sold similar to those signature edition guitars where the public thinks if they throw money at gear they'll sound like their idols. Has there ever been an official signature model synth? I can't think of one.

Speaking of I just saw the new Bladerunner trailer/teaser and they definitely are using some of the same music as the original, re-played/recorded of course by someone else because hey... Hollywood. Wanna bet that they are using something instead of a CS80?
ZZ Ardoz
bkbirge wrote:
Speaking of I just saw the new Bladerunner trailer/teaser and they definitely are using some of the same music as the original, re-played/recorded of course by someone else because hey... Hollywood. Wanna bet that they are using something instead of a CS80?


To be fair, It's Jóhann Jóhannsson doing the soundtrack. He's had years of non-Hollywood music behind him, and did a great job on Arrival and Sicario.

Having said that, I'm not that taken by his choices of sounds as heard in that trailer. Wondering if this is even the final score being used or something they rushed out of him to get the trailer finished. Either way, he's doomed to comparison, no matter how good it turns out.
hamildad
No proof that Jóhann Jóhannsson did the music on the trailer, I hear its just trailer music, where they took the original and trailer'ed it up a bit...
dopefiend
hamildad wrote:
No proof that Jóhann Jóhannsson did the music on the trailer, I hear its just trailer music, where they took the original and trailer'ed it up a bit...


Well, the melodies are the same, but while there seem to be a few CS-80'ish sounds (strings morphing into bright brass, f.e.), there seem to also be other layers in there, so this might be the new version of the soundtrack.
EvangelosYYC
PYJAMAGROOVE wrote:
Now saying that the CS80 is overhyped and it's only Bladerunnet etc. is great because proving on how many levels wrong this statement is can be done only by actually touching it. That said I can't imagine anyone to play an actual properly set CS80 to not to shit themselves. screaming goo yo


Can confirm, did play a real CS80 2 weeks ago, did shit myself. So pretty and huge sounding. I was also shown how painful the tuning was on those units....apparently studios would keep the top of the cases open to tune as they recorded. The og CS80 cycled voices, you would have to go up the board and remember how many times you pressed a key to know it was the correct voice you were tuning and the 8th voice required you to make key combos so it would literally take at least 2 hours to tune each day from the most advanced users....
dopefiend
Mine was serviced 10 months ago, and it has held its tuning beautifully. Fortunately.... applause
SynthBaron
EvangelosYYC wrote:
PYJAMAGROOVE wrote:
Now saying that the CS80 is overhyped and it's only Bladerunnet etc. is great because proving on how many levels wrong this statement is can be done only by actually touching it. That said I can't imagine anyone to play an actual properly set CS80 to not to shit themselves. screaming goo yo


Can confirm, did play a real CS80 2 weeks ago, did shit myself. So pretty and huge sounding. I was also shown how painful the tuning was on those units....apparently studios would keep the top of the cases open to tune as they recorded. The og CS80 cycled voices, you would have to go up the board and remember how many times you pressed a key to know it was the correct voice you were tuning and the 8th voice required you to make key combos so it would literally take at least 2 hours to tune each day from the most advanced users....


This sounds like some urban legend bullshit, because I cannot imagine someone going through even an hour of tweaking trimpots daily and be able to keep sane. Having a piano tuner around for touch ups between takes for cutting a piano solo album doesn't even require as much attention.
ZZ Ardoz
SynthBaron wrote:
EvangelosYYC wrote:
PYJAMAGROOVE wrote:
Now saying that the CS80 is overhyped and it's only Bladerunnet etc. is great because proving on how many levels wrong this statement is can be done only by actually touching it. That said I can't imagine anyone to play an actual properly set CS80 to not to shit themselves. screaming goo yo


Can confirm, did play a real CS80 2 weeks ago, did shit myself. So pretty and huge sounding. I was also shown how painful the tuning was on those units....apparently studios would keep the top of the cases open to tune as they recorded. The og CS80 cycled voices, you would have to go up the board and remember how many times you pressed a key to know it was the correct voice you were tuning and the 8th voice required you to make key combos so it would literally take at least 2 hours to tune each day from the most advanced users....


This sounds like some urban legend bullshit, because I cannot imagine someone going through even an hour of tweaking trimpots daily and be able to keep sane. Having a piano tuner around for touch ups between takes for cutting a piano solo album doesn't even require as much attention.


Yamaha corrected the temperature issue in all CS-80s made after late 1977, so unless it's an unmodded one, the tuning thing is a bit of a myth
EvangelosYYC
ZZ Ardoz wrote:
SynthBaron wrote:
EvangelosYYC wrote:
PYJAMAGROOVE wrote:
Now saying that the CS80 is overhyped and it's only Bladerunnet etc. is great because proving on how many levels wrong this statement is can be done only by actually touching it. That said I can't imagine anyone to play an actual properly set CS80 to not to shit themselves. screaming goo yo


Can confirm, did play a real CS80 2 weeks ago, did shit myself. So pretty and huge sounding. I was also shown how painful the tuning was on those units....apparently studios would keep the top of the cases open to tune as they recorded. The og CS80 cycled voices, you would have to go up the board and remember how many times you pressed a key to know it was the correct voice you were tuning and the 8th voice required you to make key combos so it would literally take at least 2 hours to tune each day from the most advanced users....


This sounds like some urban legend bullshit, because I cannot imagine someone going through even an hour of tweaking trimpots daily and be able to keep sane. Having a piano tuner around for touch ups between takes for cutting a piano solo album doesn't even require as much attention.


Yamaha corrected the temperature issue in all CS-80s made after late 1977, so unless it's an unmodded one, the tuning thing is a bit of a myth


The one i played was an unmodded pre-1977 collection piece at the National Music Centre in Calgary (it didn't stay in tune) and the person who told me that story about the tuning was John Leimseider who I belive is one of the most knowledgable, recognized and experienced synth technicians in the world.... but then again who knows, music is full of colourful myths. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
doombient.music
SynthBaron wrote:
[...] This sounds like some urban legend bullshit, because I cannot imagine someone going through even an hour of tweaking trimpots daily and be able to keep sane. Having a piano tuner around for touch ups between takes for cutting a piano solo album doesn't even require as much attention.


There was that German keyboardist, Kristian Schultze (not to be mixed up with Klaus Schulze), who was very much in demand as a session player in Munich's music community in the 1970s. He used to be a member of Doldinger's Passport and Snowball, and later he would form the duo Cusco with Michael Holm, producing some kind of proto-newagey music.

He was one of the first to use a CS80 in Germany, and he used to have two as he once reported in an interview: One was in the studio which he was playing while the other one was outside in the hallway, being tuned for the next recording take while the one in the studio was slowly but steadily going out of tune. They would swap CS80s between the takes, about every hour.

Schultze turned Reinhold Heil on to the CS80 (which he used with Spliff and the Nina Hagen Band to good effect), and Schultze sold his stuff on eBay in around 2002 (a friend of mine got his Roland MC-8 this way). I was bidding on one of his two CS80s but was beaten by 10 Euros (it ultimately fetched something like 2,700 Euros).

The tuning issues are no myth but the earliest production run was prone to going badly out of tune. This was remedied to some extent by adding a diode to the VCO chips (I think that's how they solved the issue) which helped to keep the tuning relatively stable.

Stephen
nvining
I have a later version CS80 and the tuning is remarkably stable, even after lugging it halfway across British Columbia. I remember reading somewhere that there is a later revision of the VCO ICs that eliminates the need for the "rank" tuning, and I'm fairly sure that helps, but I can't find the link.
nikbee
i just preordered a kit because of this celebrity endorsement:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BT6UCkXB2HZ/?taken-by=deckardsdream

d'oh!
doombient.music
nikbee wrote:
i just preordered a kit because of this celebrity endorsement:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BT6UCkXB2HZ/?taken-by=deckardsdream

d'oh!


If Catweazle has one, I need one, too.

Stephen
nikbee
doombient.music wrote:
nikbee wrote:
i just preordered a kit because of this celebrity endorsement:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BT6UCkXB2HZ/?taken-by=deckardsdream

d'oh!


If Catweazle has one, I need one, too.

Stephen


haha. just to be clear though, i wasn't making fun. been thinking about doing the build since it was announced. seeing that photo (you're free to psychoanalyze) pushed me over the edge.
doombient.music
But seriously, who is that fellow? Am I to know him seriously, i just don't get it ?

I can't hang a name on his face.

Stephen
nikbee
doombient.music wrote:
But seriously, who is that fellow? Am I to know him seriously, i just don't get it ?

I can't hang a name on his face.

Stephen


jim o'rourke.

since we're on a synth forum, i'd suggest listening to 'old news #5'. there's a bunch of (mostly) synth stuff on there. it is really really good, if you're into that kind of thing.

if you want something totally different try his newest record 'simple songs'. or even the burt bacharach tribute 'All Kinds Of People: Love Burt Bacharach'.
durwin
doombient.music wrote:
ZZ Ardoz wrote:
[...] I can cover a good chunk of the kit with selling my Juno 106 which I'm not that huge on, and get (at least to my ears) a really nice sounding poly. [...]


You have a point here: Anything is better than a Juno 106.

Viewed from that angle, purchasing the DD is a wise move, and a good addition to the rig it is, too.

Stephen


I'm mainly getting it as a new poly - if it boots out the Juno, then it boots out the Juno meh
dopefiend
durwin wrote:
doombient.music wrote:
ZZ Ardoz wrote:
[...] I can cover a good chunk of the kit with selling my Juno 106 which I'm not that huge on, and get (at least to my ears) a really nice sounding poly. [...]


You have a point here: Anything is better than a Juno 106.

Viewed from that angle, purchasing the DD is a wise move, and a good addition to the rig it is, too.

Stephen


I'm mainly getting it as a new poly - if it boots out the Juno, then it boots out the Juno meh


Ah, yes....Juno's. The most overrated poly synths out there, IMO. Couldn't get rid of my Juno 6 fast enough in 1985! But then went and got a Yamaha DX-21....oh, well. At least it had dual mode for 8-operator voices (albeit just 4 of them).
roman_f
hey guys!

i'll be happy to answer the questions here if there're any
Happyanimal
roman_f wrote:
hey guys!

i'll be happy to answer the questions here if there're any


Roman,

I assume you won't be making all of these by hand? Do you have a small group of individuals in Japan helping you with assembly?

Also, I know it's still early, but do you have anymore news about the expansion box? Still late summer availability? Any ballpark on price?

Thanks,
Josh
roman_f
Happyanimal wrote:
roman_f wrote:
hey guys!

i'll be happy to answer the questions here if there're any


Roman,

I assume you won't be making all of these by hand? Do you have a small group of individuals in Japan helping you with assembly?

Also, I know it's still early, but do you have anymore news about the expansion box? Still late summer availability? Any ballpark on price?

Thanks,
Josh


built units will be smt, otherwise it will take years to fulfill all the preorders
i expect the expander to be ready in 3 weeks - had to reorder PCBs for the prototype
Happyanimal
Do you have any details on the CV ins on the expansion? What are they patching to, modulation depth, filter depth, etc?
roman_f
Happyanimal wrote:
Do you have any details on the CV ins on the expansion? What are they patching to, modulation depth, filter depth, etc?


they are assignable to anything
donato
roman_f wrote:
Happyanimal wrote:
roman_f wrote:
hey guys!

i'll be happy to answer the questions here if there're any


Roman,

I assume you won't be making all of these by hand? Do you have a small group of individuals in Japan helping you with assembly?

Also, I know it's still early, but do you have anymore news about the expansion box? Still late summer availability? Any ballpark on price?

Thanks,
Josh


built units will be smt, otherwise it will take years to fulfill all the preorders
i expect the expander to be ready in 3 weeks - had to reorder PCBs for the prototype


How strange! I wonder how much, if at all, the sound will be affected.

And if the built is all SMT, it should be cheaper (than it is)?

Some comments speculated at $2,000+ and 40-60 hours of work, and not to be done by amateurs. How much of this is true?

I guess part of this we will need to hear from people. I will not be an early adopter, but remain very interested.
roman_f
donato wrote:
roman_f wrote:
Happyanimal wrote:
roman_f wrote:
hey guys!

i'll be happy to answer the questions here if there're any


Roman,

I assume you won't be making all of these by hand? Do you have a small group of individuals in Japan helping you with assembly?

Also, I know it's still early, but do you have anymore news about the expansion box? Still late summer availability? Any ballpark on price?

Thanks,
Josh


built units will be smt, otherwise it will take years to fulfill all the preorders
i expect the expander to be ready in 3 weeks - had to reorder PCBs for the prototype


How strange! I wonder how much, if at all, the sound will be affected.

And if the built is all SMT, it should be cheaper, no?


smt sounds exactly the same. i'll still use thru-hole film capacitors there
donato
roman_f wrote:
donato wrote:
roman_f wrote:
Happyanimal wrote:
roman_f wrote:
hey guys!

i'll be happy to answer the questions here if there're any


Roman,

I assume you won't be making all of these by hand? Do you have a small group of individuals in Japan helping you with assembly?

Also, I know it's still early, but do you have anymore news about the expansion box? Still late summer availability? Any ballpark on price?

Thanks,
Josh


built units will be smt, otherwise it will take years to fulfill all the preorders
i expect the expander to be ready in 3 weeks - had to reorder PCBs for the prototype


How strange! I wonder how much, if at all, the sound will be affected.

And if the built is all SMT, it should be cheaper, no?


smt sounds exactly the same. i'll still use thru-hole film capacitors there


thank you for your kind response. i edited my response to add more. if you care to respond, it is appreciated. best regards.
donato
donato wrote:
roman_f wrote:
donato wrote:
roman_f wrote:
Happyanimal wrote:
roman_f wrote:
hey guys!

i'll be happy to answer the questions here if there're any


Roman,

I assume you won't be making all of these by hand? Do you have a small group of individuals in Japan helping you with assembly?

Also, I know it's still early, but do you have anymore news about the expansion box? Still late summer availability? Any ballpark on price?

Thanks,
Josh


built units will be smt, otherwise it will take years to fulfill all the preorders
i expect the expander to be ready in 3 weeks - had to reorder PCBs for the prototype


How strange! I wonder how much, if at all, the sound will be affected.

And if the built is all SMT, it should be cheaper, no?


smt sounds exactly the same. i'll still use thru-hole film capacitors there


thank you for your kind response. i edited my response to add more. if you care to respond, it is appreciated. best regards.


I guess what I'm asking is range of difficulty and range of cost. That being without group buys and that with group buys. It does sound quite beautiful and unique to me.
roman_f
donato wrote:
roman_f wrote:
donato wrote:
roman_f wrote:
Happyanimal wrote:
roman_f wrote:
hey guys!

i'll be happy to answer the questions here if there're any


Roman,

I assume you won't be making all of these by hand? Do you have a small group of individuals in Japan helping you with assembly?

Also, I know it's still early, but do you have anymore news about the expansion box? Still late summer availability? Any ballpark on price?

Thanks,
Josh


built units will be smt, otherwise it will take years to fulfill all the preorders
i expect the expander to be ready in 3 weeks - had to reorder PCBs for the prototype


How strange! I wonder how much, if at all, the sound will be affected.

And if the built is all SMT, it should be cheaper, no?


smt sounds exactly the same. i'll still use thru-hole film capacitors there


thank you for your kind response. i edited my response to add more. if you care to respond, it is appreciated. best regards.


kits are still thru-hole, i'll post the BOM as soon as i test the preproduction prototype and confirm all values
donato
nm
donato
nm
dopefiend
I've asked this before and I'll ask it again: WHAT, PRAY TELL, IS THE ISSUE ABOUT SMT RESULTING IN INFERIOR QUALITY SOUND......?????

Is this based on the popular premise of lore that all analog synths sounded better because of their old, primitive components that were, of course, thru-hole...??? Does this go back to the concept of "organic" quality..???? Or is this just one more of those strange quirky principles spread by hipsters that are seeking uniqueness...?!?

This is truly an honest question. I know it's been asked before, and there have been some effect pedals being mentioned, but synths...????
It just seems like many people seem to have an automatic aversion to any synth that is mentioned to have SMT....but I have yet to perceive that inferiority. seriously, i just don't get it
ZZ Ardoz
dopefiend wrote:
I've asked this before and I'll ask it again: WHAT, PRAY TELL, IS THE ISSUE ABOUT SMT RESULTING IN INFERIOR QUALITY SOUND......?????

This is truly an honest question. I know it's been asked before, and there have been some effect pedals being mentioned, but synths...????
It just seems like many people seem to have an automatic aversion to any synth that is mentioned to have SMT....but I have yet to perceive that inferiority. seriously, i just don't get it


All one needs to do is look at the results of any "guess which is the original keyboard and which is the plug" tests to gauge how much credence to give a lot of opinions out there.
dopefiend
ZZ Ardoz wrote:
dopefiend wrote:
I've asked this before and I'll ask it again: WHAT, PRAY TELL, IS THE ISSUE ABOUT SMT RESULTING IN INFERIOR QUALITY SOUND......?????

This is truly an honest question. I know it's been asked before, and there have been some effect pedals being mentioned, but synths...????
It just seems like many people seem to have an automatic aversion to any synth that is mentioned to have SMT....but I have yet to perceive that inferiority. seriously, i just don't get it


All one needs to do is look at the results of any "guess which is the original keyboard and which is the plug" tests to gauge how much credence to give a lot of opinions out there.


Completely agree. That's why I am puzzled by the frequent negative comments I hear and read about SMT. Roman has a great project here, quite enticing.....so what if he uses SMT...?? Much better, I'd say. Otherwise this would keep him tied up and unable to tend to other tasty projects.... hyper
ZZ Ardoz
roman_f wrote:


kits are still thru-hole, i'll post the BOM as soon as i test the preproduction prototype and confirm all values


Any chance the kits could include the smt versions of the pcbs?
alanalan
roman_f wrote:
hey guys!

i'll be happy to answer the questions here if there're any


Roman, please check your Private Messages or alternately what is the best way to contact you?
MinoLoco
roman_f wrote:
hey guys!

i'll be happy to answer the questions here if there're any


Dear Roman

Thank you again for your beautiful project we're not worthy

- does SMT means that built units will be less serviceable than the kit version?

- did you increase E.G. Range or other parameters compared to the cs80 or did you try to be as close as you could to a cs80 ideally to be able to use cs80 recall sheet?

- along with the assignable cv inputs will there be any internal mod matrix to internally route parameters and different controls... with polarity? ( EG to pmw or LFO speed , velocity to invert eg attack, after touch to pulse width etc...)

- wil the assignation of cv inputs will be in the DD menu?

- I read earlier that v/oct VCOs won't behave like hz/oct in terms of beating between two detained osc and also that likewise the ribbon control would behave differently. As the DD is v/oct eurorack compatible i guess and the CS were hz/oct. I know you said we shouldn't expect the DD to behave like the CS but is the exponential VS linear vco is true? What are your thoughts about that...?


Thanks
applause
dopefiend
[quote="MinoLoco"]
roman_f wrote:

Dear Roman



- did you increase E.G. Range or other parameters compared to the cs80 or did you try to be as close as you could to a cs80 ideally to be able to use cs80 recall sheet?

- along with the assignable cv inputs will there be any internal mod matrix to internally route parameters and different controls... with polarity? ( EG to pmw or LFO speed , velocity to invert eg attack, after touch to pulse width etc...)

- wil the assignation of cv inputs will be in the DD menu?

- I read earlier that v/oct VCOs won't behave like hz/oct in terms of beating between two detained osc and also that likewise the ribbon control would behave differently. As the DD is v/oct eurorack compatible i guess and the CS were hz/oct. I know you said we shouldn't expect the DD to behave like the CS but is the exponential VS linear vco is true? What are your thoughts about that...?


Thanks
applause


These are pretty good questions. I am particularly curious about the behavior of the ribbon....seems like all other available ones have a fixed null point (center). I wonder how expensive it would be to come up with something similar.
muffdiver
I think the MPE demos maybe a deciding factor for me.

Questions:

- Will the CV Expander / Ring Mod unit also be DIY? What's the pricing for that?

- Also curious about the aforementioned VCO question. Built a Living VCO last year and love the linear detune. As I understand this was a crucial aspect of the original CS80 VCO behavior. Will it replicate this behavior?

Thanks for the hard work in bringing this to the DIY synth market - either way it looks and sounds really great.
ultravox
roman_f wrote:
hey guys!

i'll be happy to answer the questions here if there're any


Hi roman, will the Expander Unit receive power thru the expander port on Deckard's Dream or does it require a separate PSU?

Thanks!
MinoLoco
[quote="muffdiver"]I think the MPE demos maybe a deciding factor for me.

Well I think roman said that Polyaftertouch demos are on the way when he receives an MK88 so actually not really MPE.

By the way I'm not sure about roli stuff... I tried very briefly in a shop.

Do you have experienced one? pr Anybody?

Is it hard to adjust your playing from traditional keys?

how does is feel?

Some say it is not getting old well, the rubber would tend to go off the board with time... Do you confirm?

Can we control a synth with a roll without having to use a computer as an interface?
ZZ Ardoz
[quote="MinoLoco"]
muffdiver wrote:
I think the MPE demos maybe a deciding factor for me.

Well I think roman said that Polyaftertouch demos are on the way when he receives an MK88 so actually not really MPE.

By the way I'm not sure about roli stuff... I tried very briefly in a shop.

Do you have experienced one? pr Anybody?

Is it hard to adjust your playing from traditional keys?

how does is feel?

Some say it is not getting old well, the rubber would tend to go off the board with time... Do you confirm?

Can we control a synth with a roll without having to use a computer as an interface?


I used mine a couple of times and then sold it. Some love it, but it wasn't for me.

And yes, depending on what you want to control,you don't need a computer

https://support.roli.com/article/controlling-your-instrument-with-the- seaboard/
aaronbotz
cold fish, that's what my ex-wife called me
Sinamsis
[quote="MinoLoco"]
muffdiver wrote:
I think the MPE demos maybe a deciding factor for me.

Well I think roman said that Polyaftertouch demos are on the way when he receives an MK88 so actually not really MPE.

By the way I'm not sure about roli stuff... I tried very briefly in a shop.

Do you have experienced one? pr Anybody?

Is it hard to adjust your playing from traditional keys?

how does is feel?

Some say it is not getting old well, the rubber would tend to go off the board with time... Do you confirm?

Can we control a synth with a roll without having to use a computer as an interface?



It's not hard to get used to, I guess. It's just different. It's more so about pressure than it is about velocity, which is the exact opposite from traditional synth style keyboards in my experience, though I'm not a fantastic player.

You only need the computer to assign CCs, etc. Otherwise none needed to use it as a controller.

I have also heard the silicone did not age well. Not sure how true this is, I sold mine before finding out haha.

All in all, I'd say it's not better or worse than any other keyboard. Just different. I didn't like the way the silicon bunched up when sliding/gliding. I also found it to be a massive PITA to use in Ableton (Ableton's fault for not supporting MPE) and with my FH-1 (Expert Sleeper's fault at the time for requiring custom scripts). I would consider getting one again in the future, though the issues with the silicon not aging well is certainly concerning.
M-Prod
Hi Roman,

Will there be a warranty on the pre built?

How easy can broken parts be replaced, on the built version, Oled, Ic's, power, boards, sliders, and what would be the cost of eg a voice board.
MinoLoco
Thank you guys for your feedback on the Roli

roman_f wrote:
hey guys!

i'll be happy to answer the questions here if there're any


Hey sorry Roman more questions

- Will the preset will be per channel (upper or lower only) or per voice ( both channels ) it could be cool to have the possibility to copy one channel to the other and then slightly detune and adjust one of the channel.

- About the expander : are the settings of Ringmod and chorus gonna be recallable and/or a part of the Main unit presets? or is it gonna be manual?

- Will the ribbon be your built or an existing model? Is it gonna be included in the expander or sold separately?
How will it connect to expander ? will it behave like the CS in terms of where you press is reference pitch? will it be assignable to other parameter than pitch?

- you say that it could also work as a stand alone Cv to midi converter but I am not sure of the utility such a converter?

- you say that it is not a clone, that circuits are different and that it behave differently. But you also say it is very close sounding...

So how close would you say, using percentages or other know synth reissues :
( e.g. from the pretty different Prophet 5/6 (70%) to the pretty close Ms20 or odyssey (80-90%) to the excellent reproductions of SEM or Model D (95-99%)

I am sure no one will agree on my "reissues ranking" but you get the idea. IMO even if most of the demos are not very well programmed (sorry) to exhibit DD possibilities I hear some CS character so it could be close enough...

If it is Korg odyssey similar to vintage Arp level I would sh*t my pants and call it a killer polymonster!!!! Dead Banana

IMO the korg oddy is very close sound wise to the original and by the way is SMT and behave pretty close to the good old through hole from the 70ies... Just saying... hihi

I know I ask a lot of questions ( maybe because I preordered one help ) but please try to answer as much as you can that would help to get even more preorders for sure.

Thanks.
gosh
thought I’d chime in with my two cents re. the Roli. I have a rise 25 and I absolutely love it. It definitely takes a little while getting used to it and at first I was definitely getting the bunched up silicon feel when gliding and sliding…basically I was pressing too hard. Once you learn you can be quite gentle and still get nice pressure sensitivity I don’t suffer from this problem. As to how it will age…who knows. Fingers crossed though. In my opinion it’s a fantastic piece of design and it looks damn cool and begs to be played and touched.



For me once I’ve tried MPE there isn’t any going back. Being able to modulate so much all without lifting your fingers off is absolutely amaze. On pads, slow morphing sounds it’s out of this world. Equator and Strobe 2 are also both very nice soft-synths which are bundled with Roli….however, the Deckard’s Dream is going to be er…a dream! Good to see it fully supports MPE (all dimensions, including release velocity). Can’t wait for it to arrive.



The downside I should mention to MPE is DAWs catching on. I use ableton…there are workarounds which I’ve kind of perfected (with the help from a slate raven multi-touch controller) but it is a pain having the midi recorded across so many channels. I have everything crossed that Ableton wake up and fix this in a new release.
rean1mator
Been reading through this thread, and I know that there were references to the fact that the additional costs for teh diy kit would be about 1K.

The synthcube group buy seems to save a you a fair amount of money. Anyone know what the reamaining amount of material costs would minus the synthcube group buys?


Edit: I guess my main question is, is the 1K additional costs not taking into account the synthcube group buy pricing? I can do the math for the additional costs myself if I know the answer this question.
ZZ Ardoz
rean1mator wrote:
Been reading through this thread, and I know that there were references to the fact that the additional costs for teh diy kit would be about 1K.

The synthcube group buy seems to save a you a fair amount of money. Anyone know what the reamaining amount of material costs would minus the synthcube group buys?


Edit: I guess my main question is, is the 1K additional costs not taking into account the synthcube group buy pricing? I can do the math for the additional costs myself if I know the answer this question.


There's no bom yet, or prices on the case, etc, so we'll have to wait for an exact cost
xonetacular
I wonder what roman is raising capital for... today he's selling all his euro, ems synthi, and now he even listed his new BMW on instagram lol
darmklacht@gmail.com
Mabey he doesnt need it anymore because he made affordable clones of it!
ZZ Ardoz
He says he needs it to move forward with business. That could mean a lot of things. Probably easier to shed things he doesn't need right now than to get a loan. Roman, our deposits are safe, right? eek!
GryphonP3
xonetacular wrote:
I wonder what roman is raising capital for... today he's selling all his euro, ems synthi, and now he even listed his new BMW on instagram lol


Probably a new $200k car, knowing him Miley Cyrus
gosh
I'm sure it's fine but my first thought was also 'is my deposit safe'?
Slightly alarming of completion of DD is reliant on this?
SynthBaron
He's probably buying BEMI.
wavecircle
SynthBaron wrote:
He's probably buying BEMI.


If only.
haudelukas
when will the parts list be available?
i find 2000€ for a diy polysinth a lot. i like the idea of modular patch points but the expander with ring modulater will cost extra. maybe 500 - 1000.
3000€ without keyboard. if you add a keyboard with polyphonic aftertouch...

i want to see the parts list and price for the expander and the cases soon or i will cancel my preorder.
tvh
I would also like to see the BOM, and cost of the case/panel from his supplier. And the overall DIY cost of the expander module.

Have until the 31st to cancel, though there is no clear method on his site to do so...I guess email him?

Want to have faith but so far very little communication by him on this thread, which I would consider to be the hub of this project since he does not have his own forum. I believe the cost warrants some better followups.

The only downside to cancelling now and ordering sometime in the future is possibly missing out on the group buys for the expensive components.
thegroke
Roman... could you please post some more sound samples? I want to love this thing, but I can't hear all that much of the CS sound in your current samples. I'd specifically like to see that it can do the CS funky/buzzy thing like in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRE8D5dthA0

(knowing of course that you don't have the ring mod yet).

Surely you want this thing to sell, right? So, please try to "sell" it to us.
ffont
yes we need more info smile
roger
tvh wrote:
Want to have faith but so far very little communication by him on this thread, which I would consider to be the hub of this project since he does not have his own forum. I believe the cost warrants some better followups.


He has a Facebook-Page and an Instagram-Account. Try contacting him via these pages?
cheeseandbiscuits
Man listening to those demos... And hearing about compatability with the Roli... Geez makes me think of selling my CS!
ZZ Ardoz
anyone had any luck getting in touch with Roman?
haudelukas
no success in contacting him yet
gosh
Have you tried the contact us on the website? I messaged on that re. MPE and got a reply a few hours later.

I've got preorder for a built one. He does seem to have gone a little quiet, fingers crossed everything with the project. I'm still waiting for MPE demos.
ZZ Ardoz
gosh wrote:
Have you tried the contact us on the website? I messaged on that re. MPE and got a reply a few hours later.

I've got preorder for a built one. He does seem to have gone a little quiet, fingers crossed everything with the project. I'm still waiting for MPE demos.


Yes - no reply. Tried here and fb as well. I highly doubt anything is whacky - I just think he's got a heaping plate.
ZZ Ardoz
Having said that - it is frustrating. I think I'm going to get a refund and come back to this project when more questions can be answered and things are running a bit smoother and I can get the whole picture for budgeting purposes
sduck
He's been known to go silent for weeks in the past numerous times. Usually he comes back with new stuff. I wouldn't worry. He posted on instagram today, so he's alive at least.
ZZ Ardoz
sduck wrote:
He's been known to go silent for weeks in the past numerous times. Usually he comes back with new stuff. I wouldn't worry. He posted on instagram today, so he's alive at least.


Oh, I have no worry - I'm 100% certain he isn't trying to pull a fast one - I just think the lack of answers on top of the premium price for pcbs is making me wonder how close that 2000 estimate is - I'd rather wait for a second round so I can plan my budget with some certainty. I'm a Sputnik fan, and would have zero concern ordering again from him. This is just a bit personally frustrating, as I figured all the variables would be in place by now.
roman_f
MinoLoco wrote:
roman_f wrote:
hey guys!

i'll be happy to answer the questions here if there're any


Dear Roman

Thank you again for your beautiful project we're not worthy

- does SMT means that built units will be less serviceable than the kit version?

- did you increase E.G. Range or other parameters compared to the cs80 or did you try to be as close as you could to a cs80 ideally to be able to use cs80 recall sheet?

- along with the assignable cv inputs will there be any internal mod matrix to internally route parameters and different controls... with polarity? ( EG to pmw or LFO speed , velocity to invert eg attack, after touch to pulse width etc...)

- wil the assignation of cv inputs will be in the DD menu?

- I read earlier that v/oct VCOs won't behave like hz/oct in terms of beating between two detained osc and also that likewise the ribbon control would behave differently. As the DD is v/oct eurorack compatible i guess and the CS were hz/oct. I know you said we shouldn't expect the DD to behave like the CS but is the exponential VS linear vco is true? What are your thoughts about that...?


Thanks
applause


- no, service wont be a problem

- currently EG is equal to CS80, but it will be possible to adjust it in settings

- mod matrix is possible, but won't be a first thing for sure. maybe later, but i don't promise.

- yes, i'll probably also make a software for pc/mac

- to be honest i didn't think about that. i can post a video of a pitchbend with roli continuum surface and it sounds ok to me.
roman_f
muffdiver wrote:
I think the MPE demos maybe a deciding factor for me.

Questions:

- Will the CV Expander / Ring Mod unit also be DIY? What's the pricing for that?

- Also curious about the aforementioned VCO question. Built a Living VCO last year and love the linear detune. As I understand this was a crucial aspect of the original CS80 VCO behavior. Will it replicate this behavior?

Thanks for the hard work in bringing this to the DIY synth market - either way it looks and sounds really great.


- the expander will be DIY, i expect price under $999 incl pcbs, components, parts, case, panel, psu.

- since VCOs are controlled by MCU/DACs i don't see a problem to linearize the detune, feeding the voltage with antilog curve
roman_f
ultravox wrote:
roman_f wrote:
hey guys!

i'll be happy to answer the questions here if there're any


Hi roman, will the Expander Unit receive power thru the expander port on Deckard's Dream or does it require a separate PSU?

Thanks!


it will require it's own PSU, less powerful and less expensive
main unit has 280 ICs inside and that's a lot of current. i even put a cooling fan with CPU-adjustable speed there
roman_f
[quote="MinoLoco"]
muffdiver wrote:
I think the MPE demos maybe a deciding factor for me.

Well I think roman said that Polyaftertouch demos are on the way when he receives an MK88 so actually not really MPE.

By the way I'm not sure about roli stuff... I tried very briefly in a shop.

Do you have experienced one? pr Anybody?

Is it hard to adjust your playing from traditional keys?

how does is feel?

Some say it is not getting old well, the rubber would tend to go off the board with time... Do you confirm?

Can we control a synth with a roll without having to use a computer as an interface?


i still didn't get that MK88, tracking does not work, looks like a scam. i have found Roland A80 locally and will receive it next week.

Deckard's will come with such cable and it will be able to switch between usb HOST and DEVICE in settings. Host mode will also activate the power rail. So the answer is yes, you can connect a usb midi controller directly without a computer.

roman_f
M-Prod wrote:
Hi Roman,

Will there be a warranty on the pre built?

How easy can broken parts be replaced, on the built version, Oled, Ic's, power, boards, sliders, and what would be the cost of eg a voice board.


Yes, pre-built units will have 1 year warranty. I didn't think about the cost of replacement boards yet, since i'm 1 year away from that, but it should not be extreme.
roman_f
MinoLoco wrote:
Thank you guys for your feedback on the Roli

roman_f wrote:
hey guys!

i'll be happy to answer the questions here if there're any


Hey sorry Roman more questions

- Will the preset will be per channel (upper or lower only) or per voice ( both channels ) it could be cool to have the possibility to copy one channel to the other and then slightly detune and adjust one of the channel.

- About the expander : are the settings of Ringmod and chorus gonna be recallable and/or a part of the Main unit presets? or is it gonna be manual?

- Will the ribbon be your built or an existing model? Is it gonna be included in the expander or sold separately?
How will it connect to expander ? will it behave like the CS in terms of where you press is reference pitch? will it be assignable to other parameter than pitch?

- you say that it could also work as a stand alone Cv to midi converter but I am not sure of the utility such a converter?

- you say that it is not a clone, that circuits are different and that it behave differently. But you also say it is very close sounding...

So how close would you say, using percentages or other know synth reissues :
( e.g. from the pretty different Prophet 5/6 (70%) to the pretty close Ms20 or odyssey (80-90%) to the excellent reproductions of SEM or Model D (95-99%)

I am sure no one will agree on my "reissues ranking" but you get the idea. IMO even if most of the demos are not very well programmed (sorry) to exhibit DD possibilities I hear some CS character so it could be close enough...

If it is Korg odyssey similar to vintage Arp level I would sh*t my pants and call it a killer polymonster!!!! Dead Banana

IMO the korg oddy is very close sound wise to the original and by the way is SMT and behave pretty close to the good old through hole from the 70ies... Just saying... hihi

I know I ask a lot of questions ( maybe because I preordered one help ) but please try to answer as much as you can that would help to get even more preorders for sure.

Thanks.


- for now presets are per voice, it would be hard to manage sections 1/2, since there's a global section that affects both. If there's an elegant solution i can add this later.

- expander effects settings are not recallable

- i haven't decided about the ribbon interface yet, it will connect to expander port mostly.

- imagine you can convert your modular CVs and triggers to MIDI signals

- i think it sounds very close to my CS50, a little bit cleaner than the old one. I'm gonna experiment with opamps next week and see if it can be different.
ultravox
Hi Roman, lot's of good answers there. Especially the one regarding how close it sounds to your CS50.

Really looking forward to building this and adding it to my sound.
roman_f
xonetacular wrote:
I wonder what roman is raising capital for... today he's selling all his euro, ems synthi, and now he even listed his new BMW on instagram lol


paypal has blocked the funds related to deckard's dream for security reasons, for 180 days.
i had to sell some property to make the project happen
don't worry - all goes as planned, i'll just get these money back only in a half year smile

the car is not much new, i got it almost 3 years ago
latigid on
Hi Roman,

Can you explain the decision to use card connectors for the voiceboards? As mentioned in other posts, this was a point of weakness for some polysynths in the past, and even ISA computer hardware had a metal bracket to secure to the case. Is there some sort of secondary fixing mechanism for DD?
roman_f
latigid on wrote:
Hi Roman,

Can you explain the decision to use card connectors for the voiceboards? As mentioned in other posts, this was a point of weakness for some polysynths in the past, and even ISA computer hardware had a metal bracket to secure to the case. Is there some sort of secondary fixing mechanism for DD?


i don't see any problem, since it's good enough for, say, API 500 standard

all voice cards and PSU card are secured together with standoffs into a single massive. it's very solid
latigid on
roman_f wrote:
latigid on wrote:
Hi Roman,

Can you explain the decision to use card connectors for the voiceboards? As mentioned in other posts, this was a point of weakness for some polysynths in the past, and even ISA computer hardware had a metal bracket to secure to the case. Is there some sort of secondary fixing mechanism for DD?


i don't see any problem, since it's good enough for, say, API 500 standard

all voice cards and PSU card are secured together with standoffs into a single massive. it's very solid


Thanks!
roman_f
regarding BOM:

i'll make a list of major components and hardware next couple days.

i still can't give the exact BOM, since i'm waiting for the latest revision PCBs. Just want to double check everything to be sure there's no changes or rework to be done later.

The preorder ends May 31st, next day i'm putting an order for DACs from Maxim Integrated, they promise 7 weeks lead time. That means i have the whole month of June to triple check the hardware, before i order the main run of the PCBs.

Andrew Felix / DIY HUB is currently researching different options for the panel and the case, i think he will know the exact prices in a week. Quoting metalwork takes long time

Some people have been asking if they can order after May 31st - i will have a very few extra build units and a bit more kits. The webstore can keep the inventory, so as long as it's available for order there - that means you can get it. If it's out of stock - it means that i run out of preorders and you have to wait for a 2nd run.

If someone wants to cancel the order - you can always email mail@deckardsdream.com, i'll do it within 0-12 hours, depending on a time of a day. Please do not make a dispute at PayPal. I cant refund after May 31st, because all money will be used for the manufacturing. Same rules as say on Indiegogo - refunds are accepted until the end of campaign there.

Regarding new demos - i was waiting for the ELKA MK88 keyboard (paid for it on April 26th), but looks like i was scammed, i'll get Roland A80 mid next week and my local friend will record some proper demos with polyAT. i'll post some MPE/ROLI demos too, maybe tomorrow.
gosh
Thanks Roman
sduck
Posting BOMs before the kits are available is always a problem - there's always going to be people who order it all anyway, and then get stuck with a bunch of wrong parts. Not to mention depleting the stock of certain parts - anyone remember the ver 1 TTSH? And how you couldn't get the faders for months when it came out? Only because a few of us assholes had gotten early copies of the BOM and stocked up on them.
xonetacular
roman_f wrote:


paypal has blocked the funds related to deckard's dream for security reasons, for 180 days.
i had to sell some property to make the project happen
don't worry - all goes as planned, i'll just get these money back only in a half year smile


Ah thanks for clearing that up. That sucks, paypal can be a real bitch.
haudelukas
i received an answer from roman yesterday after contacting him over the website. and i also received my money back. thumbs up
ZZ Ardoz
haudelukas wrote:
i received an answer from roman yesterday after contacting him over the website. and i also received my money back. thumbs up
I also got refunded with no issues - but will definitely be back for round 2 when the total costs are nailed down.
rutabaga40
Thanks for the update, Roman.
thegroke
Thanks for the updates. One question:

Just noticed that NOISE is missing from the sub-osciillator. Can this be programmed into the RANDOM function, or would I need to use the patch points on the expander? I use this all the time on my CS-50.
numan7
thegroke wrote:
Thanks for the updates. One question:

Just noticed that NOISE is missing from the sub-osciillator. Can this be programmed into the RANDOM function, or would I need to use the patch points on the expander? I use this all the time on my CS-50.


hmmm..... i wonder if RND isn't the same as thing as NOISE on the CS-80 sub-osc functions (it would make good design sense to me to call it that anyway, since 'noise + s/h = random function', give or take some slew, and since the audio sections also have controls labeled NOISE that mean something different).


cheers
ffont
wow, thanks roman_f for all these answers, looking forward for new demos + bom and instructions.

I'm more of a software guy getting into the hardware world (even though I did some little hardware in the past) so I have a question regarding software which I did not see other people asking. Will the digital control code be open source so that I play around with it and modify?

(sorry if the question has an obvious answer in the synth DIY world, I'm new here wink
roman_f
numan7 wrote:
thegroke wrote:
Thanks for the updates. One question:

Just noticed that NOISE is missing from the sub-osciillator. Can this be programmed into the RANDOM function, or would I need to use the patch points on the expander? I use this all the time on my CS-50.


hmmm..... i wonder if RND isn't the same as thing as NOISE on the CS-80 sub-osc functions (it would make good design sense to me to call it that anyway, since 'noise + s/h = random function', give or take some slew, and since the audio sections also have controls labeled NOISE that mean something different).


cheers


i dont think that pure noise is useful as a modulation source, i think that sample-holded random is better. you may adjust the speed of s&h, and if it's at its maximum - it comes very close to noise.
roman_f
ffont wrote:
wow, thanks roman_f for all these answers, looking forward for new demos + bom and instructions.

I'm more of a software guy getting into the hardware world (even though I did some little hardware in the past) so I have a question regarding software which I did not see other people asking. Will the digital control code be open source so that I play around with it and modify?

(sorry if the question has an obvious answer in the synth DIY world, I'm new here wink


i'm not sure about it, DIY does not mean open source
ffont
ok,
I agree DIY does not necessarily mean open source, but it would be great and the community could contribute and help evolving DD. But sure you're the one to take this decision. It's going to be fine either way (but imo the more open the better wink
Sideshow
What is your philosophy regarding menu diving?
It seems to me it would be easier to use with a rotary encoder instead of the tiny buttons. (but I'm a fan of rotary encoders on anything...)
Or is the thought that one should change presets via MIDI CC?

Btw. I'm also a fan of the upper/lower preset thing, maybe it could be implemented in Korg-style with a combi-bank and a program-bank?
roger
ffont wrote:
wow, thanks roman_f for all these answers, looking forward for new demos + bom and instructions.

I'm more of a software guy getting into the hardware world (even though I did some little hardware in the past) so I have a question regarding software which I did not see other people asking. Will the digital control code be open source so that I play around with it and modify?

(sorry if the question has an obvious answer in the synth DIY world, I'm new here wink


have you looked into the shruthi/ambika/lxr? those are all completly open-source projects with code and schematics to dig into.
ffont
Hi roger,
thanks for the pointers to these projects!
They look very interesting.
thegroke
roman_f wrote:
numan7 wrote:
thegroke wrote:
Thanks for the updates. One question:

Just noticed that NOISE is missing from the sub-osciillator. Can this be programmed into the RANDOM function, or would I need to use the patch points on the expander? I use this all the time on my CS-50.


hmmm..... i wonder if RND isn't the same as thing as NOISE on the CS-80 sub-osc functions (it would make good design sense to me to call it that anyway, since 'noise + s/h = random function', give or take some slew, and since the audio sections also have controls labeled NOISE that mean something different).


cheers


i dont think that pure noise is useful as a modulation source, i think that sample-holded random is better. you may adjust the speed of s&h, and if it's at its maximum - it comes very close to noise.



Oh no!!! So, I won't be able to do this? Will I at least be able to route noise in as a modulation source via the patch bay? Will it be possible to re-assign noise to this lever via software?

I certainly find it useful - my band has used this on a number of songs for crazy noise parts for years. And since it is a feature of the inspiring design (yes I know, not a clone, but you know we are all hoping for as much of a clone as possible), it would be great to just keep things as they are (at least as a software settable option).

Could you possibly post a sample that uses your random feature on high speed to mimic classic CS noise modulation so I can compare with what I am used to?
thegroke
5:55 in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXZ8ipkXZEw

Lovely noise modulation on the CS.

Very useful for some of us smile
squirtalope
thegroke wrote:
5:55 in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXZ8ipkXZEw

Lovely noise modulation on the CS.

Very useful for some of us smile


The CS sounds better to me everyday.
SynthBaron
thegroke wrote:
5:55 in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXZ8ipkXZEw

Lovely noise modulation on the CS.

Very useful for some of us smile


Especially when you use the aftertouch to control the amount of noise fed as modulation.
noddyspuncture
There is a reason why my two CS80's, my CS70M and my CS60 all sound the way they do - the inherent sound of CS series poly-synth's... and it's nothing to do with CEM3340's...!
d'oh!
thegroke
SynthBaron wrote:
thegroke wrote:
5:55 in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXZ8ipkXZEw

Lovely noise modulation on the CS.

Very useful for some of us smile


Especially when you use the aftertouch to control the amount of noise fed as modulation.


EXACTLY!
roman_f
As I said - clock the random on a high speed and you'll get a kind of noise there. 70hz is pretty much enough imho to get enough craziness. Noise is KHz, but you mostly won't hear the differdnce
bkbirge
The panel mockup has "EXT" in the subosc section, so it looks like someone could inject noise there. Too rich for my blood though I will be looking forward to what some of you do with the ones you get, especially with an MPE controller hooked up to it. Is that vaxmidi thing ever coming out? Looks like a good candidate controller.
roman_f
yes, you can't connect the external CV source there, but you'll not get real noise - it's too fast to be digitized using the same MCU as used for controlling the synth. remember - all control in DD is digital, so the external input has to be converted to a digital domain. i'll post a demo of RND at max speed tomorrow.
MinoLoco
roman_f wrote:
yes, you can't connect the external CV source there, but you'll not get real noise - it's too fast to be digitized using the same MCU as used for controlling the synth. remember - all control in DD is digital, so the external input has to be converted to a digital domain. i'll post a demo of RND at max speed tomorrow.


Hey roman thank you for all the answers!!! Much appreciated!

- So I understand the DD internal lfo max speed is 70hz?

But what about the digital control? You said noise would be too hi to be digitized so...

What is the sample rate then? Is it low as in the Audio range?

As for bit depth I heard somewhere but I'm not sure it was 10bit DAC is that right?

- IMO it's too bad that the upcoming ring mod chorus AND sustain won't be included in the main unit preset. Is it because you don't plan to have them digitally controlled by the main unit or even the CV inputs?

- I have no idea if it's much more complicated or if it requires much more memory to have a single channel preset and also combo but it would be a great plus and that way it would be just like the CS80 architecture. And that way you could even have the "original" channel preset (brass funky...).

- As for the mid matrix, even if it not planned yet. I guess it may be the object of a future update to go along with the expansion rack cv input implementation??

A lot of guesses and suggestions I know sorry about that...

Cheers
muffdiver
Will there be future runs of DIY pcb set or is this 'one and done'?
spaßleben
roman_f wrote:
muffdiver wrote:
I think the MPE demos maybe a deciding factor for me.

Questions:

- Will the CV Expander / Ring Mod unit also be DIY? What's the pricing for that?

- Also curious about the aforementioned VCO question. Built a Living VCO last year and love the linear detune. As I understand this was a crucial aspect of the original CS80 VCO behavior. Will it replicate this behavior?

Thanks for the hard work in bringing this to the DIY synth market - either way it looks and sounds really great.


- the expander will be DIY, i expect price under $999 incl pcbs, components, parts, case, panel, psu.

- since VCOs are controlled by MCU/DACs i don't see a problem to linearize the detune, feeding the voltage with antilog curve


Maybe a silly question, but will you be selling a pre-built version of the Expander as well?

If so, any rough idea on price for a Built version and when that will go on sale?
dopefiend
noddyspuncture wrote:
There is a reason why my two CS80's, my CS70M and my CS60 all sound the way they do - the inherent sound of CS series poly-synth's... and it's nothing to do with CEM3340's...!
d'oh!


Dang!!!! The most I ever had simultaneously was one CS80, a CS60, a CS 50 and a CS40m....huge, bulky, smelly....but wonderful! Now I only have one other CS80, but......hmmmmmm. Two is better than one, huh? hihi
roman_f
it works with roli now
https://www.instagram.com/p/BUt06QkhQD1/?taken-by=deckardsdream
thegroke
Hey Roman,

Could you please provide the latest order and order cancellation time in some specific time zone? Is June 1 in reference to the time/date in Tokyo (JST?) or EST or some other time?

Also, since you haven't posted any new samples yet, would it at all be possible to extend the order and/or cancellation date until some date after you get samples up?

We are all standing by ready to spend $3,000-5,000 each to get a great product and to support your hard work here, but it's really a lot to ask us to do that without proper samples involving all of the important parameters. And how about showing us some real time tweaking and some comparisons with your CS-50? I don't care actually if it's exactly the same, but I want to see that it's in the ballpark. I honestly can't hear any of that in the samples that you have posted... and I (and other people I know who are on the edge with this) are all sitting here really really trying to convince ourselves.

And then maybe a preliminary BOM so we know what we might be paying (or at least tell us what the expensive parts are like sliders, display etc.)

Please help us out (and then we'll gladly help you out).

Thanks!
Happyanimal
Pretty sure he stated in an earlier post deadline would be before June 1st, 12am JST.
thegroke
Which is in the past by 4 hours, I see.

No BOM. No samples....

Surely there must be more who feel an extension is warranted.
ranix
if it were me making this I'd be fine with (much) lower volumes at first from just people who already know me and trust my ability. It's a big project, no need to be impatient
Happyanimal
thegroke wrote:
Which is in the past by 4 hours, I see.

No BOM. No samples....

Surely there must be more who feel an extension is warranted.


I don't know what the expectation was on DIY side- I preordered built version.

Have you listened to the 20+ audio samples on the SoundCloud?
thegroke
Hi. Yes, I have. And I own a CS-60 and a CS-50. But the samples sound rather generic to me. I can't hear much Yamaha CS, and again, I really want to. I can pick any random video on YouTube and hear it - but not in those samples.

But I do believe in Roman's skill - what he's building seems like a remarkable feat. I intend absolutely no insult. It's just that 3,000 dollars is a lot of money for me (I bought my CSs for 400 dollars and 50 dollars many many years ago, so I'm by no means a person of means).

I would just love to see some videos of it in action. There is nothing that really shows any real-time tweaking. I can recall one video on instagram where one slider moves - that's it.

And I do not intend to sound impatient. I could wait another year or two for this. There is no way I'll have the money to build it immediately anyway. But I had a pre-order in, and there was a due date, and there were promises of a BOM and samples before that due date, neither of which arrived. Is it then unreasonable to request an extension?

But OK - I'll stop whining now. No one is forcing me to buy this except myself. And sure, it's one guy with a hell of a project that is probably eating all his time up.
sduck
Roman has never stated that this is a Once and Done type deal - this preorder was just for those who want in on the very first run of these things. So just hold on, and wait for the flood of demos that come out as these start delivering and/or get built, then make a decision. You may even be able to arrange for a hands on demo somewhere.
Bjarne
What an impressive project this is. I think it would be awesome if DD eventually became open source, at least in parts, e.g. the firmware would allow for community extensions, and documented hardware interface for the voice cards would make this an awesome platform for custom voice cards. Of course it's a business decision. I'm quite influenced by Ambika/Shruthi and the Mutable Instruments philosophy.
Cheers
needspeed
Hope this day is finding you well.

How are things going Roman.

Excitement is building, so any update would be deeply appreciated.....Thanks.......Steve
Monobass
We have a deal on CEM3340 chips for Deckards Dream builders - https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=183485
needspeed
With all due respect to Doug Curtis for whom I deeply recognize/respect his pioneering work in developing the CEM3340, I wonder if there will be a testable/measurable difference between the Curtis reissue and the OnChip clone?

Avoiding the subjective element of if its right/wrong for OnChip to be making these......Steve
Monobass
The Curtis reissue is the Onchip one. who are doing them with permission from his estate. Nothing subjective about his family earning royalties for his hard work.
flts
needspeed wrote:
With all due respect to Doug Curtis for whom I deeply recognize/respect his pioneering work in developing the CEM3340, I wonder if there will be a testable/measurable difference between the Curtis reissue and the OnChip clone?

Avoiding the subjective element of if its right/wrong for OnChip to be making these......Steve


Just to clarify, OnChip is the company Doug Curtis' widow is affiliated with, so they ARE the official reissues. CoolAudio is the Behringer-owned IC house that have released their own clone of the IC. I can't say anything about the difference as I haven't tested either or heard any comparisons so far.
needspeed
flts wrote:
needspeed wrote:
With all due respect to Doug Curtis for whom I deeply recognize/respect his pioneering work in developing the CEM3340, I wonder if there will be a testable/measurable difference between the Curtis reissue and the OnChip clone?

Avoiding the subjective element of if its right/wrong for OnChip to be making these......Steve


Just to clarify, OnChip is the company Doug Curtis' widow is affiliated with, so they ARE the official reissues. CoolAudio is the Behringer-owned IC house that have released their own clone of the IC. I can't say anything about the difference as I haven't tested either or heard any comparisons so far.


Thank you guys for clearing up my confusion (OnChip vs CoolAudio), now I understand the reason for the contentious situation on the CEM chips.
SynthBaron
needspeed wrote:
flts wrote:
needspeed wrote:
With all due respect to Doug Curtis for whom I deeply recognize/respect his pioneering work in developing the CEM3340, I wonder if there will be a testable/measurable difference between the Curtis reissue and the OnChip clone?

Avoiding the subjective element of if its right/wrong for OnChip to be making these......Steve


Just to clarify, OnChip is the company Doug Curtis' widow is affiliated with, so they ARE the official reissues. CoolAudio is the Behringer-owned IC house that have released their own clone of the IC. I can't say anything about the difference as I haven't tested either or heard any comparisons so far.


Thank you guys for clearing up my confusion (OnChip vs CoolAudio), now I understand the reason for the contentious situation on the CEM chips.


The odd thing about all this drama is that news of reverse engineered chip clones being made is why OnChip says they invested in reissuing the CEM3340 at all. Not years of people asking...lol...
Monobass
SynthBaron wrote:
The odd thing about all this drama is that news of reverse engineered chip clones being made is why OnChip says they invested in reissuing the CEM3340 at all. Not years of people asking...lol...


Ah well I know from experience that 100 people on a forum asking for stuff doesn't necessarily translate into any sales smile

Whereas I think Behringer putting $$$$ into developing a clone is a pretty sure sign that the market wants them.
cube48
Sorry if this was already answered, I read the whole thread but can't recall any info about future availability (but could just missed it). Will it be possible to buy built units in say 6 months, when the first batch of preorders is sold/finished?

Also, I noticed that on front panel photos there is a label "TOUCH RESPONCE" in lower block of faders. Is this just a proto-typo?
Globus
Haha yes, I emailed him about that one but have yet to receive a 'responce'
oberling
cube48 wrote:
Sorry if this was already answered, I read the whole thread but can't recall any info about future availability (but could just missed it). Will it be possible to buy built units in say 6 months, when the first batch of preorders is sold/finished?


Let me cite Romans second e-mail sent through the newsletter you can sign on for on deckardsdream.com:

mail from Roman in which he wrote:
We are making a few extra built units (~10) and some extra kits (~50), so feel free to order them if you were not able to make it before June 1st. Our web-store is keeping inventory, so as soon as the products are in stock - you should be covered.
dubonaire
cube48 wrote:
Also, I noticed that on front panel photos there is a label "TOUCH RESPONCE" in lower block of faders. Is this just a proto-typo?


Quote:
Haha yes, I emailed him about that one but have yet to receive a 'responce'


Probably because who cares if a 'c' should be an 's'.

In 20 years the same people who spend fortunes on Synthis will be paying double for the Deckards Dream 'responce' version.
durwin
dubonaire wrote:
cube48 wrote:
Also, I noticed that on front panel photos there is a label "TOUCH RESPONCE" in lower block of faders. Is this just a proto-typo?


Quote:
Haha yes, I emailed him about that one but have yet to receive a 'responce'


Probably because who cares if a 'c' should be an 's'.

In 20 years the same people who spend fortunes on Synthis will be paying double for the Deckards Dream 'responce' version.


This ^^ hahah! Smacked in the head with a trout
cube48
^ Before I asked, I searched for hi-res photos of CS series to check if it is perhaps some sort of tribute to known typo on any of the original machines.
rutabaga40
Looks like some of those CEM3340 chips are available at Thonk. Are those indeed the correct chips and how many will we need? 16 per synth?
Laughing
You need 17 CEM3340's, and Synthcube will be doing a group buy as well. Right now he's at the 10$-per-chip level already.
sduck
And there's loads of info about the DIY version of these over in the Music Tech DIY forum - take a look over there if you're interested in that aspect of it. Already some 4-5 threads.
muffdiver
SynthCube CEM3340 Group Buy:
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=181661&highlight=

SynthCube V2146D Group Buy:
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=181664&highlight=

Thonk CEM3340 Group Buy:
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=183485

Primary DIY Deckards Dream thread in Music Tech DIY
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=177810&highlight=
rutabaga40
Thanks, guys. I'll take a look at the DIY forum.
livewire
Where are we supposed to look to find the BOM for this project? Linky?
seriously, i just don't get it
livewire
sduck wrote:
And there's loads of info about the DIY version of these over in the Music Tech DIY forum - take a look over there if you're interested in that aspect of it. Already some 4-5 threads.


I am highly interested in that aspect of it. Where is "over there"?
I searched for a Music Tech DIY forum. Could not find it. hmmm..... seriously, i just don't get it sad banana eek!
muffdiver
Your in the waiting room with the rest of us. BOM has not been published yet AFAIK.

Roman did indicate in a post in this thread that is would use CEM3340 and 2146V ICs, presumably for the VCO and VCF.

At this point it seems, and actually kind of sound like it if I think about it, a MKS-80 and a CS-80 had a baby. Albeit, via MPE artificial insemination.
Happyanimal
muffdiver wrote:


At this point it seems, and actually kind of sound like it if I think about it, a MKS-80 and a CS-80 had a baby. Albeit, via MPE artificial insemination.


Jesus that's HAWT!
sduck
livewire wrote:
sduck wrote:
And there's loads of info about the DIY version of these over in the Music Tech DIY forum - take a look over there if you're interested in that aspect of it. Already some 4-5 threads.


I am highly interested in that aspect of it. Where is "over there"?
I searched for a Music Tech DIY forum. Could not find it. hmmm..... seriously, i just don't get it sad banana eek!


Follow the links in the post 3 above yours.
livewire
Thanks, d'oh! I was searching the web for it, instead of here at Muffs.
needspeed
Repeat from other thread but hope one of them attracts your attention.

Roman please provide some update when you can, as many of us are committed to the chip group buy at either Thonk and/or Synthcube......Much appreciated.....Steve
roman_f
please find the BETA BOM

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FUuU-bPxM0XrvDrbQ1PkWa2KtMZKMk atFOWWaTnVAFg/edit?usp=sharing

feel free to order hardware and ICs, but please do not order resistors/capacitors yet - since DACs have 7-8 weeks manufacturing lead time, i’m still massaging the circuit, adjusting levels etc to make all things better. PCBs have 2 weeks lead time and i can order them at the last step.

we expect to ship the kits in the middle of august

best wishes
Roman

PS: i didn't see recent messages yet, will answer all in the morning.
PPS: preorder is finished, but we are making extra units.
~5 built units left for preorder and a little bit more of kits.
as soon as they are in stock in a website - you're covered
hairyloft
Thanks Roman.

Now hoping for a group buy for most of the rest of these parts (already ordered the group buy cem, v2164 chips) but this is another level.

Roll on August!

Thanks
Jason

roman_f wrote:
please find the BETA BOM

feel free to order hardware and ICs, but please do not order resistors/capacitors yet - since DACs have 7-8 weeks manufacturing lead time, i’m still massaging the circuit, adjusting levels etc to make all things better. PCBs have 2 weeks lead time and i can order them at the last step.

we expect to ship the kits in the middle of august

best wishes
Roman

PS: i didn't see recent messages yet, will answer all in the morning.
PPS: preorder is finished, but we are making extra units.
~5 built units left for preorder and a little bit more of kits.
as soon as they are in stock in a website - you're covered
needspeed
roman_f wrote:
please find the BETA BOM

feel free to order hardware and ICs, but please do not order resistors/capacitors yet - since DACs have 7-8 weeks manufacturing lead time, i’m still massaging the circuit, adjusting levels etc to make all things better. PCBs have 2 weeks lead time and i can order them at the last step.

we expect to ship the kits in the middle of august

best wishes
Roman

PS: i didn't see recent messages yet, will answer all in the morning.
PPS: preorder is finished, but we are making extra units.
~5 built units left for preorder and a little bit more of kits.
as soon as they are in stock in a website - you're covered


You are my hero Roman (just ordered the chips!!!!), I cannot thank you enough for all the effort you have put into this project. And also thanks for the preliminary BOM it will help me size the cost and complexity of the project......Steve

I agree with you hairyloft as it would be great to be able to buy the remaining parts as a kit in a group buy. I have a feeling that Synthcube and/or thonk will do it so we will see
roman_f
forgot to mention - you need to order CARDS BOARD part 8 times
needspeed
roman_f wrote:
forgot to mention - you need to order CARDS BOARD part 8 times


So not including ICs, it comes to only 4282 parts to stuff and solder perfectly!!!!! This might take longer than a day to build, I am thinking Mr. Green .........Steve
synthcube
..think that is approximately 2.4X as many parts as the TTSH smile

did you account for the 8X CARDS note in the prior post in your calculation?
SynthBaron
Anyone who successfully builds and calibrates a DIY one should get a trophy, lol.

4000 parts, sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeit.
roman_f
big amount of parts is 0.1uF 0805 smt resistors on the back side of the pcbs
pretty easy to stuff them
solitud
roman_f wrote:
big amount of parts is 0.1uF 0805 smt resistors on the back side of the pcbs
pretty easy to stuff them

I thought this is through hole and smt parts are presoldered?
flts
4000 parts is only about 1000 more than in a 4-voice crOwBX, with double the number of voices. Not bad at all. FWIW, even a huge number of 100nF 0805 bypass caps is _super_ fast to solder in batch once you get to the right mood.
roman_f
only SMT are stuffed in a kit: SMT32 MCU, memory chip, 10x 8ch 10bit DACs and 4x 4ch 16bit DACs, phone preamp and couple more ICs

0.1uF filtering caps are not soldered, they are same value and very large size, so easy to solder for anyone. you can even omit them, mostly - circuit will still work, but this is not recommended
hairyloft
Ok this is starting to make this build realistic, I would be interested on the thoughts of some experienced builders, I've only built small items before but am up for a challenge (if it's time rather than a massive head scratching exercise I will be up for it!).
synthcube wrote:
..think that is approximately 2.4X as many parts as the TTSH smile

did you account for the 8X CARDS note in the prior post in your calculation?
roman_f
flts wrote:
4000 parts is only about 1000 more than in a 4-voice crOwBX, with double the number of voices. Not bad at all. FWIW, even a huge number of 100nF 0805 bypass caps is _super_ fast to solder in batch once you get to the right mood.


correct. if i made it more analogue (with analogue EGs and LFOs) it would be way more parts and way more calibration. way more, since original CS80 had integrated ICs for everything it still was a beast. it had 200+ VCA chips for expression. i could downsize that quantity to 60 incl the ones used in filter. if i made it as it was done in CS80...

currently you only need to calibrate sine-wave for 16 oscillators, 2 trimmers per osc
roman_f
hairyloft wrote:
Ok this is starting to make this build realistic, I would be interested on the thoughts of some experienced builders, I've only built small items before but am up for a challenge (if it's time rather than a massive head scratching exercise I will be up for it!).


you just need to follow the upcoming guide step by step. parts are large, documentation will be detailed. if you don't do silly mistakes - everything should works from the start. even uncalibrated it will work, just the sine-wave will not look properly..
roman_f
i finally got rackmount case prototype. waiting for a quote for a DIY run.
panel, case and screen bezel sales will be managed by DIY HUB store

hairyloft
Great thanks Roman sounds good to me!
roman_f wrote:
hairyloft wrote:
Ok this is starting to make this build realistic, I would be interested on the thoughts of some experienced builders, I've only built small items before but am up for a challenge (if it's time rather than a massive head scratching exercise I will be up for it!).


you just need to follow the upcoming guide step by step. parts are large, documentation will be detailed. if you don't do silly mistakes - everything should works from the start. even uncalibrated it will work, just the sine-wave will not look properly..
roman_f
i'm also sending a full kit to Dave Brown (www.modularsynthesis.com) - Dave is a very skilled engineer, famous for his detailed build guides and contributing a lot of support to a DIY community helping people on forums to debug their units
gosh
Do you habe an estimated ship time for the built units? Are these likely to be same time as the kits?
sduck
Hey Roman and others - for discussion of the DIY versions of this, please use this thread - https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=177810 (or start your own dedicated build thread)

And please repost the DIY info you have posted here over there please.
needspeed
synthcube wrote:
..think that is approximately 2.4X as many parts as the TTSH smile

did you account for the 8X CARDS note in the prior post in your calculation?


Of course I did, so I am hopping you can sell me one big bag of parts for X Dollars........Steve
ranix
roman_f wrote:
only SMT are stuffed in a kit: SMT32 MCU, memory chip, 10x 8ch 10bit DACs and 4x 4ch 16bit DACs, phone preamp and couple more ICs

0.1uF filtering caps are not soldered, they are same value and very large size, so easy to solder for anyone. you can even omit them, mostly - circuit will still work, but this is not recommended


I'd say it's VERY not recommended - doing too much of this will put DC noise from any digital chips and AC noise from any analog chips into the power supply (and therefore the signal path).
needspeed
ranix wrote:
roman_f wrote:
only SMT are stuffed in a kit: SMT32 MCU, memory chip, 10x 8ch 10bit DACs and 4x 4ch 16bit DACs, phone preamp and couple more ICs

0.1uF filtering caps are not soldered, they are same value and very large size, so easy to solder for anyone. you can even omit them, mostly - circuit will still work, but this is not recommended


I'd say it's VERY not recommended - doing too much of this will put DC noise from any digital chips and AC noise from any analog chips into the power supply (and therefore the signal path).


Agree, and why build this work of art and not do it right. Just get some solder paste, place the caps, and hot air gun them while drinking some fine scotch.......Steve
sduck
I repeat

sduck wrote:
Hey Roman and others - for discussion of the DIY versions of this, please use this thread - https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=177810
meris
JohnLRice wrote:
PYJAMAGROOVE wrote:
Now what it should also have is an optional 224-like reverb card to complete that "certain classic 80s sound"...Call it a Deckard's Dream with an "Large Greek Hall" reverb....
Just for demo purposes and for what it's worth (since I don't know if it has anything to do with the sound of a 224 or not), but RomanF has a couple Meris Mercury7 500 series reverbs on the way and they are "Inspired by the 1982 Bladerunner film soundtrack"

Sez ANGELO MAZZOCCO, DSP ENGINEER:
I get inspired every time I hear Vangelis’s use of reverb on the original Blade Runner soundtrack. It never gets old. I designed the Mercury7’s algorithms to bring those same extra long decays and lush modulated reflections to the pedal world.

https://www.meris.us/products/


Roman has them in a rack now and he's been using the Mercury7 500 modules for demo of Deckard's Dream thumbs up

Needless to say we're super happy about this.

-terry
Monobass
For the record, we have no plans to do any parts kits for Deckards Dream here at Thonk. We've had quite a lot of emails based on some things other people have posted in the thread, but this hasn't been our intention.

As awesome as DD is, we prefer to concentrate on smaller kits as we find we keep the quality control high that way and we don't make mistakes missing parts out! Also DD just doesn't have any super rare parts, which is frankly a big relief compared to TTSH wink
sonicmayhem
Hey guys

Could you update us on release date? Emails went non responsive. Appreciate it.
sixbyseven
I thought he did an update last week here:

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=177810&start=150
Happyanimal
sixbyseven wrote:
I thought he did an update last week here:

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=177810&start=150


That's DIY centric, no? Would be good to know what time line is looking like for actual delivery of "built" preorders.
nadafarms
I wanna buy a completed unit, not preorder waah

The site says preorder is out of stock, I guess right now we are in limbo until they start pumping out units?

Anybody get one yet?
battema
I haven't heard anything about shipments being close to ready, to be honest.

I am expecting that I might get my prebuilt unit sometime very, very late in the year or early 2018.
Happyanimal
battema wrote:
I haven't heard anything about shipments being close to ready, to be honest.

I am expecting that I might get my prebuilt unit sometime very, very late in the year or early 2018.


Preorders were estimated to take 2-3 months from time of preorder close- first week of June. I don't think anyone has received updated info on that.
battema
Yep...I am just guessing that things will end up taking long than expected, given that this is a fairly small operation.

It's all good...it'll arrive when it arrives smile
neubauer
I ordered my built one first day on 3rd Mai and I have no news of shipment.
zeit
Haven't even heard of about this but... JFC, that's going to be one bad-ass synthesizer. cool
needspeed
neubauer wrote:
I ordered my built one first day on 3rd Mai and I have no news of shipment.


Keep the faith. I know we will have these built or kit units in our hands sooner or later and the wait time will be all but forgotten once seated with hands on the keyboard and sliders being wiggled........Steve
Slapbass99
This is the note I received from Roman today, I am sure he will add some color in the future:

"we have finally received DACs from the factory yesterday, PCBs are ordered, SMT pick-n-place job is scheduled for august 19th
we have most of parts here - still waiting for sliders and metal parts (panel, rack case)

kits will be shipped at the end of august, first built units will ship in the beginning of september. due to delay from sliders supplier (i was expacting to get these a week ago) most of the batch will ship at the end of september.
i will send a newsletter as i get the boards from the smt factory and start building the first units (i have enough sliders for 17 units right now)

all best
Roman / Deckard’s Dream"
needspeed
Slapbass99 wrote:
This is the note I received from Roman today, I am sure he will add some color in the future:

"we have finally received DACs from the factory yesterday, PCBs are ordered, SMT pick-n-place job is scheduled for august 19th
we have most of parts here - still waiting for sliders and metal parts (panel, rack case)

kits will be shipped at the end of august, first built units will ship in the beginning of september. due to delay from sliders supplier (i was expacting to get these a week ago) most of the batch will ship at the end of september.
i will send a newsletter as i get the boards from the smt factory and start building the first units (i have enough sliders for 17 units right now)

all best
Roman / Deckard’s Dream"


Thank you for the update and wonderful news of progress on this highly anticipated synthesizer........Steve
muffdiver
Sounds like Majick....

https://www.instagram.com/p/BX3GA76BOSH/

-
Pando
Roman, for the thru-hole ICs, would you recommend the chips soldered directly to the board or using IC sockets? I'm thinking that it might be easier to swap out a chip if they are in sockets, but it will make the build more expensive and it might not be as reliable due to vibration?

Thanks
sduck
That's a question for the DIY version of this thread - please re-ask there (and answer there) - https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=177810
bishopmagicdonjuan
Hey there- first time builder but i have lot's of friends with synth and electronics experience. how hard do y'all think this build will be????
synthcube
bishopmagicdonjuan wrote:
Hey there- first time builder but i have lot's of friends with synth and electronics experience. how hard do y'all think this build will be????


That's a great question for the DIY version of this thread - please re-ask there (and answer there) - https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=177810

smile
sduck
applause
peleykrane
hyper couldn't get any cooler. Blade runner / rack editions
strangeonlooker
Hi guys,

Does anybody know of a quicker way to contact Roman other than e-mail? Sent him a few e-mails from last week about my order but haven't gotten a response yet. Thx!
Happyanimal
strangeonlooker wrote:
Hi guys,

Does anybody know of a quicker way to contact Roman other than e-mail? Sent him a few e-mails from last week about my order but haven't gotten a response yet. Thx!


There was the official update regarding prebuilt and DIY last week. I doubt you're going to get anymore info than that.
cupperwear
Some nice raw "single voice" demos from Knobcon

https://soundcloud.com/paul-schilling/sets/deckards-dream-deep-dive-de mo
sonicmayhem
cupperwear wrote:
Some nice raw "single voice" demos from Knobcon

https://soundcloud.com/paul-schilling/sets/deckards-dream-deep-dive-de mo


Sounds awesome! thanks for posting these!
needspeed
cupperwear wrote:
Some nice raw "single voice" demos from Knobcon

https://soundcloud.com/paul-schilling/sets/deckards-dream-deep-dive-de mo


Its is hugely impressive and with all 8 voices and ring mod there are those of us who may never leave our studios again!!!!!!!
needspeed
I have confirmed that you can install 1-8 voice cards and select how many are active, so you can test a single card at a time which really is helpful.....Steve
rean1mator
just picked up a ROLI seaboad rise 49 in preparation for the impending arrival of the diy kit!! yee haw. Unfortunately, my kit build won't be starting until Dec timeframe. The latest schilling demo's are tasty indeed. can't wait.
DiscoDevil
cupperwear wrote:
Some nice raw "single voice" demos from Knobcon

https://soundcloud.com/paul-schilling/sets/deckards-dream-deep-dive-de mo



I checked out this setup and was disappointed that it was a single voice. No one was around to talk to about it but it seemed like an odd "demo", hooked up to a midi'd CS15 as a controller, if I recall.
tthogs
Is there an update on this project? Just saw the new Blade Runner and call me crazy but this would be a missed opportunity if they didn't use that as a promotional opportunity for this synth.
Happyanimal
tthogs wrote:
Is there an update on this project? Just saw the new Blade Runner and call me crazy but this would be a missed opportunity if they didn't use that as a promotional opportunity for this synth.


Kits started shipping yesterday. Built units ship next week.
battema
Yep...hoping to get a shipping notice sometime in the coming weeks. The end is nigh!
needspeed
tthogs wrote:
Is there an update on this project? Just saw the new Blade Runner and call me crazy but this would be a missed opportunity if they didn't use that as a promotional opportunity for this synth.


All current information can be found in the general build thread below as this project has been underway for a bit now.......Steve

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=189382
D.E.L.B.
Anyone know what's happening with this expander module too?
needspeed
D.E.L.B. wrote:
Anyone know what's happening with this expander module too?


Roman had built a prototype and showed a picture in June, so he said he would work on it further, but working on both at the same time was too much.

I know that they have been working non-stop building the pre-built units and kitting/shipping the kits.

I expect we will hear more once the smoke clears. It seems that this will be an ongoing business as they formed Black Corporation and plan another run of pre-built units.

I figure I would wait until next week and see if he says something, otherwise I could ask, but do not want to annoy him.....Steve
D.E.L.B.
Any idea on the pricing for that or is that to be decided?

Yeah Roman told me another few weeks until prebuilt starts again and I'll be putting an order down.

Thanks for your replies Steve.
needspeed
D.E.L.B. wrote:
Any idea on the pricing for that or is that to be decided?

Yeah Roman told me another few weeks until prebuilt starts again and I'll be putting an order down.

Thanks for your replies Steve.


I do not remember if that was ever discussed. Maybe someone else here may know. At this point, just getting the PCBs will make me happy and keep me busy while Roman figures out the expander.......Steve
Pando
My kit was shipped yesterday, got a tracking number!!! WHoh0oo01!1!!
Happyanimal
hyper
D.E.L.B.
needspeed wrote:
D.E.L.B. wrote:
Any idea on the pricing for that or is that to be decided?

Yeah Roman told me another few weeks until prebuilt starts again and I'll be putting an order down.

Thanks for your replies Steve.


I do not remember if that was ever discussed. Maybe someone else here may know. At this point, just getting the PCBs will make me happy and keep me busy while Roman figures out the expander.......Steve

Sometime next year I would imagine then.

Thanks.
ualslosar
Hi -

Anyone have an alternate source for 44 pin edge connectors & slider caps?


(The sources listed in the latest BOM don't seem to carry these anymore)

Thanks
Larry
ultravox
ualslosar wrote:
Hi -

Anyone have an alternate source for 44 pin edge connectors & slider caps?


(The sources listed in the latest BOM don't seem to carry these anymore)

Thanks
Larry


Both look to be available.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/130486232450
http://www.microminiatures.co.uk/acatalog/Toggle_Switch_Covers.html
ualslosar
Yes, I see now. Thank you.

32 British Pounds ($42 + shipping to the US) seems a bit much for slider caps, no?
ualslosar
Do you think these might work for slider caps (from the Mouser catalog) ?


Thanks
Larry
Pando
Rather than using these stick caps, I wonder if the CS-80 style flat slider caps might be better choice? Otherwise the main DDRM instrument looks like the preset section on the CS-80.


ultravox
ualslosar wrote:
Do you think these might work for slider caps (from the Mouser catalog) ?


Thanks
Larry


Those may work but its hard to say without ordering a sample.
synthcube
Our inbound shipment of the slider caps is hung at customs but we expect it next week and will be making those available.
AlexRuger
I'm absolutely kicking myself for not picking up a Kurzweil Midiboard I saw about a month ago. Would've paired so nicely with DD, both in terms of functionality and vibe/aesthetic.
ultravox
synthcube wrote:
Our inbound shipment of the slider caps is hung at customs but we expect it next week and will be making those available.


Excellent! thumbs up
M-Prod
Has anyone recieved their kit or pre built? Just curious
ultravox
M-Prod wrote:
Has anyone recieved their kit or pre built? Just curious


Received my kit over the weekend. Will start building this week.
sonicmayhem
I ordered a pre-build. Nothing as of yet. Id prolly expect a few delays.
battema
Oh happiness...I got an email about the prebuilt units being ready. The end is nigh grin

Question for anyone else who may have gotten the email...I can't seem to actually access the link; it directs me to a page that just asks for my password endlessly. I was able to log in directly on the site so I know it isn't my fat fingers, but even from there I can't access the pre-built balance (Run #1) page.

Just curious if it's just me or if anyone else has experienced the same thing. If it is a global thing then I'm sure they'll have it ironed out in due time.
Happyanimal
battema wrote:
Oh happiness...I got an email about the prebuilt units being ready. The end is nigh grin

Question for anyone else who may have gotten the email...I can't seem to actually access the link; it directs me to a page that just asks for my password endlessly. I was able to log in directly on the site so I know it isn't my fat fingers, but even from there I can't access the pre-built balance (Run #1) page.

Just curious if it's just me or if anyone else has experienced the same thing. If it is a global thing then I'm sure they'll have it ironed out in due time.


The first password it is asking you for is the password that was mailed to you in that email. It doesn’t ask for your actual personal account password until you are ready to checkout and specify you are a returning customer.
battema
Yep...my error. Balance paid and happiness abounds.

Thank you!
roman_f
Happy to say that we made a last minute firmware tweak - envelopes and lfo's min/max times now may be adjusted in the menu settings, getting it way beyond the original CS sound. and this may be stored individually for each preset!

ultravox
Sweet! applause

Is the default LFO & envelope behavior similar to the CS... in case I want to program some vintage sounds?
roman_f
yes - default speeds and depths are 1:1 as on a CS
ultravox
roman_f wrote:
yes - default speeds and depths are 1:1 as on a CS


That's really awesome, thanks mate.
battema
Oh, those look gorgeous. Excited to have one arrive at my door in the semi-near future!
PISS.EXE
Hope to join pre built crew for this run. thumbs up
seamonkeyman
Wow, that demo sounds great!
sonicmayhem
Just paid in full for my unit! I forgot that these are kinda expensive. Last synth purchase for me for 2017! Looking forward to playing with these applause SlayerBadger!
Pando
sonicmayhem wrote:
I forgot that these are kinda expensive.


"Must be expensive."

"Very."

Mr. Green
Abomb1st
Decided to pull the trigger and go in on a pre build 2nd run. I’m very excited about this nanners
estin
Pando wrote:
sonicmayhem wrote:
I forgot that these are kinda expensive.


"Must be expensive."

"Very."

Mr. Green


nice one thumbs up
sonicmayhem
I got an email a few days ago that my unit shipped! Very excited! applause Rockin' Banana! SlayerBadger! w00t
Happyanimal
hyper
jim50hertz
Anyone planning on using a Roli Seaboard with the DDRM?

As someone who is about to embark on a DIY build I’m very interested in how they play together cool
battema
Nope...but I am planning to use it with my Linnstrument smile

Have you seen the video Roman did showing the Roli with the Deckard's Dream? I can't find the video right now, but it appears earlier in this thread.
jim50hertz
No I didn’t! I’ll have a search, thanks for the tip!
battema
Woohoo! I just got a shipping notice for my unit. The end is nigh!
Happyanimal
sonicmayhem wrote:
I got an email a few days ago that my unit shipped! Very excited! applause Rockin' Banana! SlayerBadger! w00t


Did your DD leave Japan yet? Curious how long it will sit in customs.
neubauer
on 9th november i received the tracking number but no info about it in Japan Post.
battema
Yeah, my tracking hasn't updated yet in Japan Post or any other system. Figuring the #'s were generated but maybe the units haven't yet been delivered to the actual postal office...
Happyanimal
Japan Post is pretty efficient. Hard to believe these have really got to the local office yet.
Happyanimal
battema wrote:
Yeah, my tracking hasn't updated yet in Japan Post or any other system. Figuring the #'s were generated but maybe the units haven't yet been delivered to the actual postal office...


I’ve sent Bob an email. Would be nice to know if these are actually “shipping” or they’re just printing tracking numbers and waiting until they can get 50+ units out the door together at the same time.
Happyanimal
Happyanimal wrote:
battema wrote:
Yeah, my tracking hasn't updated yet in Japan Post or any other system. Figuring the #'s were generated but maybe the units haven't yet been delivered to the actual postal office...


I’ve sent Bob an email. Would be nice to know if these are actually “shipping” or they’re just printing tracking numbers and waiting until they can get 50+ units out the door together at the same time.


Got a quick response. Units are heading to Japan-post today. You should be able to trace your tracking number shortly. razz
neubauer
Now it works, my dd is flying from japan to Barcelona
misterphoneman
Now that the first units are starting to find their way home and the DIY'ers are making their way towards completion, would love to hear some demos.
battema
Yep, my number is updated as well. Super happy times are ahead!!
nvining
"Demonstrate it for me. I want to see a negative before I provide you with a positive."
battema
I've always been preferential to this one as a security question wink

sduck
Describe in single words, only the good things that come in to your mind about: your mother.
battema
Package is just down the road!! Holy crap, this thing might be in my hands before Thanksgiving grin
MinoLoco
battema wrote:
Package is just down the road!! Holy crap, this thing might be in my hands before Thanksgiving grin



Hey battema, I've been checking to http://www.post.japanpost.jp/index_en.html

but it says ** Your item was not found. Confirm your item number and ask at your local office.

I had the confirmation email only 3 days ago only. I know it appeared to be longer for you but just wanted to make sure it was normal and I am checking to the right adress.

Let us know when you receive it.... So excited!

SlayerBadger!
battema
That never worked for me either...but the # DID work with my domestic carrier (USPS) and via a link that I got directly from Black Corp. Looks like you are in Paris...maybe try searching for that # with another carrier?

Did you get any update from Black showing the package in transit?
Happyanimal
battema wrote:
Package is just down the road!! Holy crap, this thing might be in my hands before Thanksgiving grin


Same here. Already in and out of US customs.
MinoLoco
battema wrote:
Did you get any update from Black showing the package in transit?


thx Batt!

No no update about package in transit... yet so it seems regular to have a week between the tracking number and the actual tracking...

Have you seen the new video on instagram?

sounds good even not very well recorded imo applause Dead Banana
Happyanimal
You need to be checking your local post for status of it has already been received in customs within your country. USPS (USA) has up to date tracking on mine, however Japanese post is outdated. This is typical.
roman_f
First 50+ units were picked up from us by Japan Post on the 16th, as far as i know some people in the US already got them on Saturday.

the other batch is this week - guys are packing and labeling them, i have to take a couple days off due to a heavy flu.
ultravox
roman_f wrote:
First 50+ units were picked up from us by Japan Post on the 16th, as far as i know some people in the US already got them on Saturday.

the other batch is this week - guys are packing and labeling them, i have to take a couple days off due to a heavy flu.


I've had the flu before and it really does suck. Take care, mate.
battema
+1 on taking care, Roman. You folks have done an amazing job with everything, and you've earned a few days to make sure you're good and healthy.

Apparently my box is out for delivery, so the end is very nigh. Just for saying Roman: thanks a TON for making this happen. So super excited!
WIZARDISHUNGRY
Having an anxiety attack waiting for the tracking to appear online… 4 days!
battema
It

Is

HERE

grin
Slapbass99
My DD arrived - build quality is impeccable and I am looking forward to really digging into this synth. Quick question regarding the cooling fan, when I first powered up the synth the cooling fan was ripping, now when I turn it on, it does not seem to come on with the synth. I checked in the settings and the Fan is set to "ON" should this be cause for concern?

Thanks!
Slapbass99
Also, is anyone having any issues with the second voice bleeding through even when not using trigger the synth? I have seen this happen with other synths in the past, but it seems particularly pronounced on this synth.
Happyanimal
Slapbass99 wrote:
Also, is anyone having any issues with the second voice bleeding through even when not using trigger the synth? I have seen this happen with other synths in the past, but it seems particularly pronounced on this synth.


No, not here. Have you tried calibration in oscillator menu?

Make sure you make Roman aware. There’s also a Deckard’s dream FB page that gets a fair amount of traffic.
battema
My fan doesn't power up consistently either, nor does it seem to follow the menu setting. Not super concerned at this point tho.
Slapbass99
battema wrote:
My fan doesn't power up consistently either, nor does it seem to follow the menu setting. Not super concerned at this point tho.


Interesting, any bleed from the second voice? It seems particularly pronounced with the factory presets on my synth.
Happyanimal
battema wrote:
My fan doesn't power up consistently either, nor does it seem to follow the menu setting. Not super concerned at this point tho.


No issues with fan here. Settings turn it on/off consistently.
sonicmayhem
Tracking hasnt moved since the 11/19. WTF? Currently waiting in Berlin for it to arrive.
nadafarms
If you have one please post more YouTube demos!

applause
MinoLoco
Whats up Deckard's Dreamers!!!

Yeaay I finally have received the Tracking update from Black corp...

Its in shibuya still but now I can track my DD coming.

There a light!!!!

It's peanut butter jelly time! nanners Dead Banana applause hihi we're not worthy Rockin' Banana!
noddyspuncture
battema wrote:
My fan doesn't power up consistently either, nor does it seem to follow the menu setting. Not super concerned at this point tho.


Neither of my CS80's have a fan...!
hihi
Happyanimal
noddyspuncture wrote:
battema wrote:
My fan doesn't power up consistently either, nor does it seem to follow the menu setting. Not super concerned at this point tho.


Neither of my CS80's have a fan...!
hihi


Oh no... the troll found his way over here from the gearslutz thread. We will never be free. Dead Banana
battema
Speaking of fans...just got home from holiday, popped open the case and unseated/reseated the fan connector. Fan works just fine now; even responds to on/off in the settings menu.

Happiness abounds! Now, off to try and make some quickie demos...
noddyspuncture
Happyanimal wrote:
noddyspuncture wrote:
battema wrote:
My fan doesn't power up consistently either, nor does it seem to follow the menu setting. Not super concerned at this point tho.


Neither of my CS80's have a fan...!
hihi


Oh no... the troll found his way over here from the gearslutz thread. We will never be free. Dead Banana


Funny... hihi
Slapbass99
Man, you guys are lucky, my synth is not working unless I use one of the presets. :(. Waiting to hear from Roman, hopefully he has a solution.
Happyanimal
Slapbass99 wrote:
Man, you guys are lucky, my synth is not working unless I use one of the presets. :(. Waiting to hear from Roman, hopefully he has a solution.


It boots in panel model. Means what you see for fader values is what you get. Make sure VCA’s are up. Make sure oscillators are switched on. Make sure filters are wide open.
Happyanimal
Happyanimal wrote:
Slapbass99 wrote:
Man, you guys are lucky, my synth is not working unless I use one of the presets. :(. Waiting to hear from Roman, hopefully he has a solution.


It boots in panel model. Means what you see for fader values is what you get. Make sure VCA’s are up. Make sure oscillators are switched on. Make sure filters are wide open.


All good now?
Slapbass99
Happyanimal wrote:
Happyanimal wrote:
Slapbass99 wrote:
Man, you guys are lucky, my synth is not working unless I use one of the presets. :(. Waiting to hear from Roman, hopefully he has a solution.


It boots in panel model. Means what you see for fader values is what you get. Make sure VCA’s are up. Make sure oscillators are switched on. Make sure filters are wide open.


All good now?


Unfortunately that is the not the issue, the synth works fine in pnl mode on initial startup (aside from a noisy / artifacting voice II), but once you move to the user banks, moving the sliders does nothing (filter open, VCA at proper level, aftertouch settings towards the middle, etc), all I am hearing is a high pitched wine. Funny part is, the factory bank works, aside from preset 1 (odd) and voice II with its odd artifacting from the preset at higher volumes.

I have recalibrated the oscillators a number of times, reset the sliders, etc. I would open up the synth, but I am guessing I will be sending this unit back so no need to dig around with a non serviceable surface mount PCB.
M-Prod
if found this one via their Facebook

https://soundcloud.com/deckardsdream/sets/deckards-dream-factory-prese ts-november-2017

sounds good but seems to lack some bottom end (?)
noddyspuncture
Have they managed to 'inspire' the CS80 - including all it's supposed problems and reliability issues...?

Just out of interest, any original 'bought-from-new' CS80 owners here who also had problems from day one...?
battema
So...my current challenges (and if anyone here has a built unit, and can verify if they do/do not have the same issues, I'd appreciate it!). Also, just to say up front; yes, there are some things that don't quite work as expected, but I am still very, VERY happy with the synth. Anything as brand-spanking new (and musically sophisticated) as this is bound to have a few little kinks to iron out along the way. So, still a super happy camper overall smile

With all that said:

(1)
I don't have much experience with a CS-80...but if I understand correctly, with one of the Sustain modes, the ribbon should continue to affect a note even after the key is released? It seems like Sustain 1 works as it should (notes not held do not get affected) but unless I'm missing something Sustain 2 doesn't behave any differently in my unit. Right now I'm using a very basic config, simple MIDI controller on a single channel, no MPE or anything...is there something else I should be setting to get pitch bends/ribbons to continue into the release cycle of an envelope?

(2)
I thought I fixed the fan yesterday but apparently not...instead, the fan seems to work fine when the unit is cold; however, if I turn it off after an hour or so and start it back up, the fan is completely unresponsive.

I do have a multimeter but haven't any experience using one...is this something where I need to start checking continuity; also, what might be some possible "culprits" for something to go bad once warmed up?

(3)
This is more a curiosity, not sure it is an issue...the Sub Oscillator only seems to affect about 1 whole tone or so on the VCO. For most of the waveshapes, that's reasonable; however, for random I was expecting something where an almost "sample and hold" feel would happen when cranked up. This might just be normal behavior for the CS-80, so I'm just curious.

Anyone who can offer tips or validation on the above (or Roman, if you happen to be reading, any thoughts?), I'd certainly appreciate it.
oldgearguy
noddyspuncture wrote:
Have they managed to 'inspire' the CS80 - including all it's supposed problems and reliability issues...?

Just out of interest, any original 'bought-from-new' CS80 owners here who also had problems from day one...?


Please stop.

We all know (here and on GS) that you own multiple CS-80s (bought your first one back in 1986 or so if I remember the post) and you've been around gear and musicians and music a long time.

I would think the amount of experience you have in the field would mean that you'd have a professional attitude towards others in the business, whether they are musicians, manufacturers, or even just fans/collectors.

I would think your experience and depth of knowledge would be a useful resource to help others out rather than to simply hang around taking cheap shots at people busting their butts trying to do something.
sduck
noddyspuncture wrote:
Have they managed to 'inspire' the CS80 - including all it's supposed problems and reliability issues...?

Just out of interest, any original 'bought-from-new' CS80 owners here who also had problems from day one...?


There were handful of people taking similar shots at the TTSH when it came out. If you do any research at all you can answer your own questions.

battema
Yeah...honestly, I was never under the impression that I was buying a perfect clone of the CS-80.
battema
Anyhoo...the main challenge for me at this point is more hardware based: the fan and the audio output both don't always work on startup. In the case of the latter, both the audio out *and* phones output are silent, even though the display shows MIDI and voice activity when triggered.

I've checked the basic connectors for power and the fan, and both are seated firmly, but I've not started testing the boards themselves (honest awkward admission, I don't actually know where to start with that). Usually both work again after the unit has fully cooled off (1-2 hours, depending on how long it was running beforehand), but still, not entirely ideal wink

Once it is up and the fan is running, it's a thing of beauty. I've started experimenting with MPE and my Linnstrument, plus running the DD through my two Meris pedals, and the sound is just plain fantastic. So thrill that this exists grin
noddyspuncture
oldgearguy wrote:


Please stop.



(hides)
M-Prod
battema
I did this very, very, VERY quickly last night, using a Linnstrument in MPE mode, a sound a threw together on the DD, and a Mercury 7 reverb:

[s]https://soundcloud.com/user-112960267/deckards-dream-w-linnstrument -test-1[/s]

CAVEATS AND MEA CULPAS: I've been messing with MPE for less than 2 days, so my fingers aren't exactly nimble. And this isn't going to win any "composition of the year" awards. Just a quick demo of some capabilities beyond the presets, using an MPE controller.

(PS in case I also managed to botch the SC embed: https://soundcloud.com/user-112960267/deckards-dream-w-linnstrument-te st-1 )
M-Prod
Thanks for taking the time to make this demo! Sounds good through my phone, can't wait to get home.
Please post more! Also some without fx please.
Pando
Slapbass99 wrote:

Unfortunately that is the not the issue, the synth works fine in pnl mode on initial startup (aside from a noisy / artifacting voice II), but once you move to the user banks, moving the sliders does nothing (filter open, VCA at proper level, aftertouch settings towards the middle, etc), all I am hearing is a high pitched wine. Funny part is, the factory bank works, aside from preset 1 (odd) and voice II with its odd artifacting from the preset at higher volumes.

I have recalibrated the oscillators a number of times, reset the sliders, etc. I would open up the synth, but I am guessing I will be sending this unit back so no need to dig around with a non serviceable surface mount PCB.


Could it be that you have the DAC startup issue? Roman modified two capacitor values on the BOM for the DIY model, but since you have the built one perhaps you got the model that didn't have that issue corrected?

From https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=189382

Quote:
Minor changes/bugfixes/improvements:
CRITICAL BOM UPDATE!!!!!!!!!!!!
BOM update in the works, Roman has provided the following changes for those already in the build process.
PSU Board Changes per Roman:
C12 should be 1uf, c13 - 330uf 6.3V or higher 8MM DIA /3.5 LS
C13 increased delays the boot of +3.3v digital rail, c12 reduced makes 5v analog rail boot faster, so, DACs start with no problem
Without change sometimes they don’t start, since digital 3.3v comes to sac before 5v. It happened on 1/5 of built units
These should be OK - double check my work though:
330uF
1uF
ranix
I want one bad but I just want to buy it, not build or test it cry
battema
Well...I'll just say this: there are issues, yeah. My fan isn't consistent, and there are a few things with the voice modes that don't quite seem right. But this is still easily the most enjoyable and immediately playable synthesizer I've used in quite a few years.

Roman's done a damned fine job, and I've every confidence that what issues are found, will be addressed in due time. They are already looking at additional runs, so it's pretty likely those will have fewer wrinkles than even MY very-few wrinkles smile
WIZARDISHUNGRY
After like a week, it's shown up as "Held by export Customs" – no need to panic
Slapbass99
Pando wrote:
Slapbass99 wrote:

Unfortunately that is the not the issue, the synth works fine in pnl mode on initial startup (aside from a noisy / artifacting voice II), but once you move to the user banks, moving the sliders does nothing (filter open, VCA at proper level, aftertouch settings towards the middle, etc), all I am hearing is a high pitched wine. Funny part is, the factory bank works, aside from preset 1 (odd) and voice II with its odd artifacting from the preset at higher volumes.

I have recalibrated the oscillators a number of times, reset the sliders, etc. I would open up the synth, but I am guessing I will be sending this unit back so no need to dig around with a non serviceable surface mount PCB.


Could it be that you have the DAC startup issue? Roman modified two capacitor values on the BOM for the DIY model, but since you have the built one perhaps you got the model that didn't have that issue corrected?

From https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=189382

Quote:
Minor changes/bugfixes/improvements:
CRITICAL BOM UPDATE!!!!!!!!!!!!
BOM update in the works, Roman has provided the following changes for those already in the build process.
PSU Board Changes per Roman:
C12 should be 1uf, c13 - 330uf 6.3V or higher 8MM DIA /3.5 LS
C13 increased delays the boot of +3.3v digital rail, c12 reduced makes 5v analog rail boot faster, so, DACs start with no problem
Without change sometimes they don’t start, since digital 3.3v comes to sac before 5v. It happened on 1/5 of built units
These should be OK - double check my work though:
330uF
1uF



At this point, I just wish Roman would get back to me with a fix. I am expecting to exchange this unit or request a refund once he gets back to me.
battema
Good morning folks!

So, after spending a few days mucking about with the DDRM, I've kind of gathered a list of things I think aren't quite 100%, and things that I'd rather like to see in a future firmware update.

Just to reiterate this yet again though: all these issues have not changed my opinion that this is a wonderful instrument and I am very, very happy smile

With that in mind...here's my current list o' buggy bits and wishful bits!


Things That Don't Seem Right:

* Fan doesn't come on after unit is warm (must wait until cool to resolve)
* Output silent sometimes on startup (1-2 restarts usually resolves, this is most likely the DAC issue already discussed)
* Linnstrument not fully able to connect via USB host (it does work over MIDI)
* Sustain II has some odd behaviors, not all notes going silent when new notes pressed
* Glissando mode seems incorrect
* Pitch bends do not affect envelope release stage in either Sustain mode (this is my personal biggest ask, after the fan)
* Classic/Extended LFO depth seems unchanged (using square wave and max VCO modulation as reference, depth remained half tone)

Things That Would Be Nice to Have:

* I'd love the range of the LFO to be at least an octave rather than a half tone.

* Memory retention on the menu system; when I go back to the main menu, be at the selection last made rather than the top.

* This might be tricky, but I'd love it if the little display could give me some feedback when I move a slider to the position that matches the setting in a patch. If I am trying to "learn" how a preset was put together, having the ability to set the sliders to match the preset would be kind of useful.
Slapbass99
I spoke with Bob Akber from Black Corporation (looks like Roman is trying to put together a team) and he helped me through a bunch of my issues, I am noticing that the artifacting i was mentioning earlier (perhaps the Sustain II issue mentioned above?) is much worse in the headphone jack than the main output, however, the synth does seem a lot noisier compared to my Vermona Perfourmer.

Overall though, this thing is pretty sweet, just want a cure for the noise and the fan, looks like we should see a solution soon.
Happyanimal
Slapbass99 wrote:
I spoke with Bob Akber from Black Corporation (looks like Roman is trying to put together a team) and he helped me through a bunch of my issues, I am noticing that the artifacting i was mentioning earlier (perhaps the Sustain II issue mentioned above?) is much worse in the headphone jack than the main output, however, the synth does seem a lot noisier compared to my Vermona Perfourmer.

Overall though, this thing is pretty sweet, just want a cure for the noise and the fan, looks like we should see a solution soon.


What was the fix for your no sound at boot issue? Thought you weren’t getting any response at all when moving the faders?
whyfarer
battema wrote:
I did this very, very, VERY quickly last night, using a Linnstrument in MPE mode, a sound a threw together on the DD, and a Mercury 7 reverb:

[s]https://soundcloud.com/user-112960267/deckards-dream-w-linnstrument -test-1[/s]

CAVEATS AND MEA CULPAS: I've been messing with MPE for less than 2 days, so my fingers aren't exactly nimble. And this isn't going to win any "composition of the year" awards. Just a quick demo of some capabilities beyond the presets, using an MPE controller.

(PS in case I also managed to botch the SC embed: https://soundcloud.com/user-112960267/deckards-dream-w-linnstrument-te st-1 )


Thanks for this demo! we're not worthy

I'm (slowly) building my DDRM and practicing on my linnstrument waiting for the great merging of souls. Very glad to hear how amazing they can sound together. Now I just need to finish the motherboard, the hardware board and 8 voice boards (though I'll start playing when one is done) eek!

I appreciate any and all demos to keep the motivation high. Hope people are having fun even with the kinks that are getting worked out!
Slapbass99
Happyanimal wrote:
Slapbass99 wrote:
I spoke with Bob Akber from Black Corporation (looks like Roman is trying to put together a team) and he helped me through a bunch of my issues, I am noticing that the artifacting i was mentioning earlier (perhaps the Sustain II issue mentioned above?) is much worse in the headphone jack than the main output, however, the synth does seem a lot noisier compared to my Vermona Perfourmer.

Overall though, this thing is pretty sweet, just want a cure for the noise and the fan, looks like we should see a solution soon.


What was the fix for your no sound at boot issue? Thought you weren’t getting any response at all when moving the faders?


It was my own incompetence, a bunch of the user presets had been set to produce no sound. Most of the faders had been set to take over mode, meaning you had to move the faders past a certain point from the saved patch produce sound. I was moving the faders on the filter and VCA/ENV, but not enough to actually create sound. After messing around for about 20 minutes I gave up. After talking with the guys from DD / Black Corp, i realized my incompetence and was able to fix the issue, (moved EVERY fader to 10, then to 0 to regain control of the front panel.

The reason why I was so confused is every preset in the user bank literally just produced clicking, and I was ignorant to the fact that EVERY single control that would produce sound (VCA, Filter, After-Touch) was locked at zero and I could not get them to work until I moved the fader past a certain point. I thought PNL mode would be maintained if you accessed the user based patch memory and no patch had be saved.

PNL mode worked fine so I should have known better. d'oh!

This is why I bought a built unit and did not attempt to build one.

One feature I would like (maybe it is buried somewhere) would be to quickly move back to PNL mode from a user patch.

The only issue i am having right now is a high signal to noise ratio compared to my other synths (maybe my signal chain?), and the fan working intermittently. I have not really had the chance to hook my DD up to any real equipment yet, I will be comparing to my other synths via my 002 rack tonight and will give you guys an update.

Ohh and most of the artifacting is in the headphone jack (it sounds like a patch is being sustained indefinitely) but it barely barely bleeds through on the output.
lupito
battema wrote:
I did this very, very, VERY quickly last night, using a Linnstrument in MPE mode, a sound a threw together on the DD, and a Mercury 7 reverb:

[s]https://soundcloud.com/user-112960267/deckards-dream-w-linnstrument -test-1[/s]

CAVEATS AND MEA CULPAS: I've been messing with MPE for less than 2 days, so my fingers aren't exactly nimble. And this isn't going to win any "composition of the year" awards. Just a quick demo of some capabilities beyond the presets, using an MPE controller.

(PS in case I also managed to botch the SC embed: https://soundcloud.com/user-112960267/deckards-dream-w-linnstrument-te st-1 )



Hmm. This sounds good. For another one can you run through presets with minimal processing? I don't think there's anything online like that.
noddyspuncture
Hi D-Dreamers,

Playing my CS60 tonight I made a short video of my messing about... and then it occurred to me that you guys are finishing your 'builds' and are talking about making demo videos.

As the CS60 is just basically half a CS80 - with no individual a/t etc... it'll also be basically 'half' of your modules. I'd be really interested if one of you could have a go (using just the one channel of your module) at this really simple little 'ditty' for comparison...!?

I could photograph the sliders of my patch here so you can recreate the sound exactly if anyone would like a go..?

MinoLoco
battema wrote:
I did this very, very, VERY quickly last night, using a Linnstrument in MPE mode, a sound a threw together on the DD, and a Mercury 7 reverb:

[s]https://soundcloud.com/user-112960267/deckards-dream-w-linnstrument -test-1[/s]
)


Dead Banana Dead Banana Dead Banana Dead Banana Dead Banana Dead Banana Dead Banana Dead Banana Dead Banana Dead Banana Dead Banana Dead Banana Dead Banana Dead Banana Dead Banana Dead Banana Dead Banana Dead Banana Dead Banana Dead Banana Dead Banana Dead Banana Dead Banana Dead Banana Dead Banana

Holy crap!!! this is the shit! you nailed it Batt!

I have to change my underwear because of you...

Cant wait i'm so excited...
screaming goo yo screaming goo yo screaming goo yo screaming goo yo screaming goo yo screaming goo yo screaming goo yo screaming goo yo screaming goo yo screaming goo yo very frustrating very frustrating very frustrating very frustrating very frustrating very frustrating very frustrating angry angry angry help Mr. Green Mr. Green lol Rockin' Banana! Rockin' Banana! Rockin' Banana! Rockin' Banana!
kbrush
MY ASS IS BLEEDING MY ASS IS BLEEDING MY ASS IS BLEEDING

WOW, super psyched! Thanks Battema!!


battema wrote:
I did this very, very, VERY quickly last night, using a Linnstrument in MPE mode, a sound a threw together on the DD, and a Mercury 7 reverb:

[s]https://soundcloud.com/user-112960267/deckards-dream-w-linnstrument -test-1[/s]

CAVEATS AND MEA CULPAS: I've been messing with MPE for less than 2 days, so my fingers aren't exactly nimble. And this isn't going to win any "composition of the year" awards. Just a quick demo of some capabilities beyond the presets, using an MPE controller.

(PS in case I also managed to botch the SC embed: https://soundcloud.com/user-112960267/deckards-dream-w-linnstrument-te st-1 )
battema
Wow...thanks, gents smile

lupito, if you go back a page, I believe M-Prod posted a video from Tokyo that is more or less what you're looking for. Those are the factory sounds just played (I don't *hear* any FX).

Hope this helps!
J
M-Prod
Honestly, I dont think that YouTube movie does the DD justice. Although
the ones that own one would be the better ones to judge this (battema, would you agree or do you think that movie is a good reference)
The SoundCloud files I also posted are better.. and after listening in my studio I must say there is quite some bottom end too..
https://soundcloud.com/deckardsdream/sets/deckards-dream-factory-prese ts-november-2017
battema
I prefer the soundcloud audio too, personally.

lupito seemed mostly interested in just someone scrolling through the presets, and I thought the YT video was sufficient for that.
M-Prod
Battema, I'm waiting how your (and other's) issues get resolved to pull the trigger myself for the 2nd run. It's ok and understandable if there are issues, it's how they get resolved that builds trust.

Ps any news on the expander?
battema
Hi M-Prod!

Sure, understood. I had a very brief exchange with Bob via email and it sounds like they are taking my input into consideration with upcoming firmware releases. I know Roman has been ill so I've not been too concerned with response time.

Thus far none of my issues are crippling; the fan is the biggest issue but it is consistent (always starts cold, but has issues once the unit is warm and restarted). I am *hoping* that this too is a firmware issue, but...time will tell!

I haven't heard anything about the expander, but am guessing there will be news in the earliest months of 2018 (right now I am guessing they are busy working through firmware stuff with the first run, plus handling existing orders etc.). Definitely excited to add the ring mod to my unit in due time though!
WIZARDISHUNGRY
Slapbass99 wrote:

Most of the faders had been set to take over mode, meaning you had to move the faders past a certain point from the saved patch produce sound.


Is this a global setting? I missed it in the config menu. 1.0 is the newest firmware yes?

I believe someone mentioned there should be an indication of the distance to the patch setting on the screen. Let me expand on that request and suggest that this should also indicate the direction to the setting position and if the control has "picked up" by crossing the preset's position.

Not a ton of problems yet, but haven't really tried to get my Qunexus working with any of the fancier features. I should be able to play with poly aftertouch right?

I've also noticed that the voice allocation seems to rotate through channels 1-7 but will only allocate 8 while chording. I don't think this is a problem, just interesting.

My further wishlist for firmware revisions:

- preset names (haven't looked at the usb drive that mounts yet, but if the presets are stored just as files on it, it'd be nice to be able to put a name in them)
- the ability to edit a preset and save to another bank+program number
battema
Hi Wizard!

Two things:

- Agreed on the slider position and picking up the preset position. I don't think I've mentioned it here but I did send that one along to Roman / Bob as a request. In due time, once the software editor is ready that'll help a bit, as I suspect you'll be able to suck in a patch and see the virtual version onscreen.

- Not sure if this is what you mean, but while I am tinkering with a factory preset or the like, I can switch to Bank 1 or 2, but before moving to a different spot I can hit Save and then move to the location. It's a little wonky but it seems to let me save in different locations.

What I *would* love -- and if someone has figured out if this can be done, please do let me know! -- is once I pick a spot, to be able to quickly A/B compare the sound already present with what I am about to save over it. Since we *don't* have actual names for presets, it might help me avoid accidentally wiping out something I'd like to keep.
sduck
WIZARDISHUNGRY wrote:

I've also noticed that the voice allocation seems to rotate through channels 1-7 but will only allocate 8 while chording. I don't think this is a problem, just interesting.


That's a "feature" of the original that Roman copied.
WIZARDISHUNGRY
battema wrote:
- Not sure if this is what you mean, but while I am tinkering with a factory preset or the like, I can switch to Bank 1 or 2, but before moving to a different spot I can hit Save and then move to the location. It's a little wonky but it seems to let me save in different locations.


Great, I got scared and didn't try this. Thank you!

sduck wrote:
That's a "feature" of the original that Roman copied.


I'm curious if this actually does anything other than make me nervous!
M-Prod
sduck wrote:
;]
WIZARDISHUNGRY wrote:

I've also noticed that the voice allocation seems to rotate through channels 1-7 but will only allocate 8 while chording. I don't think this is a problem, just interesting.


That's a "feature" of the original that Roman copied.

You'r kidding, right?

Ps please owners share some opinions, experience, clips.. anything (or whether you're still waiting).
jkjelec
M-Prod wrote:
Quote:
You'r kidding, right?


This is definitely how the CS-80 voice allocation chip works; sduck is not kidding.
noddyspuncture
M-Prod wrote:
sduck wrote:
;]
WIZARDISHUNGRY wrote:

I've also noticed that the voice allocation seems to rotate through channels 1-7 but will only allocate 8 while chording. I don't think this is a problem, just interesting.


That's a "feature" of the original that Roman copied.

You'r kidding, right?

Ps please owners share some opinions, experience, clips.. anything (or whether you're still waiting).


Indeed it is - if you read the CS80/CS60 service manuals, the calibration process clearly states that you need to cycle to the seventh note, hold it down and the next note played will be the eight... for tuning, fault finding etc...

Though why they would want a 'clone' to do the same is beyond me - especially as it's only 'inspired' by the CS80 and not meant to be exactly the same - it makes no difference to the CS80 sound whatsoever... it's just an anomaly of the custom Yamaha processors used.

(hides)
battema
M-Prod wrote:
Ps please owners share some opinions, experience, clips.. anything (or whether you're still waiting).


If you or anyone else has certain features they want to hear, let me know and I can try to add something to Soundcloud. Can't guarantee I'll do everything (I'm not really wanting to spend a night doing nothing but recording a full suite of dry presets), but specifics I'll certainly do my best!

I'm starting to do less demoing and starting to incorporate it into my own music, which is loads of fun (and kind of the point!!) but also not a clean/clear demo of the device either.
noddyspuncture
battema wrote:

If you or anyone else has certain features they want to hear, let me know and I can try to add something to Soundcloud.


Could you have a go at recreating my CS60 video above and sticking it on YouTube...? I could send you the patch data - a photo of the slider settings.

Just using one half though... as if it were a CS60.
battema
Errr....ok, I have to ask: is the CS-60 intentionally a half-step sharp? Because I'm trying to watch that video and the disconnect between the performance and the sound is throwing me off. Darn crazy pitch-sensitive ears...

As to your ask: probably not, at least not for a few months or longer. Based on the tone and the performance expressions, I'm not hearing anything the *DDRM* can't do but I'm hearing plenty that *I* cant' do yet.

As an apparent CS owner I'm sure you can appreciate that playing a more complex instrument is about way more than power on, pick a preset and noodle out Jump (or Touch & Go, if you prefer). At this point, I'm still reminding myself that some sliders have to move toward me drawbar-style to take effect wink And while the Linnstrument is capable of insane levels of polyphonic expressive detail...it's operator isn't quite there yet!

If you want to just hear a raw equivalent patch then sure, feel free to pass along the slider settings. I can match them up and plunk out a few notes and chords, maybe press in to hear the aftertouch a bit. But I'm afraid the more expressive gestures of a performance will have to wait until a bit more time and experience is under my belt thumbs up

Hope this helps!

PS: apologies but whatever I put online, it'll be in tune. Just how I roll smile
M-Prod
battema wrote:
M-Prod wrote:
Ps please owners share some opinions, experience, clips.. anything (or whether you're still waiting).


If you or anyone else has certain features they want to hear, let me know and I can try to add something to Soundcloud. Can't guarantee I'll do everything (I'm not really wanting to spend a night doing nothing but recording a full suite of dry presets), but specifics I'll certainly do my best!

I'm starting to do less demoing and starting to incorporate it into my own music, which is loads of fun (and kind of the point!!) but also not a clean/clear demo of the device either.


I really appreciate your effort. With these boutique instruments, we're dependant on First users. I dont see one landing at Sonic lab any time soon..I am mostly interested in simple dry sounds. Everything sounds good with great chords, expression and a good reverb. So just dry sound, single notes, simple chords, nothing fancy. No MPE necessary and please adjust a few sliders (filters, envelopes, Flip a switch) so we can hear what that does. And please use a range of appr 4 octaves, so we can really judge the sound in it's full range. Some factory presets and maybe some of your own. Almost scientific like automatic gainsay. Doesn't have to sound awesome or even musical imho that's up to you. Quirky is also fine. Whatever is simple and quick to make. Like i said, i'm on the fence to pull the trigger for round 2 and am really curious about the range of sounds it can make and what it sounds like in general. Does it sound warm, organic with simple notes? Or does it only shine with polyphony and mpe?
battema
Heh, err...so, I don't actually work for Black Corp, but as a first-buyer, my demos are going to decide whether other people purchase or not? Wow...the important thing is, no pressure at all, nope...... ;-)

Ok...I am off work on Friday so I will try to spend my morning doing these demo things. It'll be Soundcloud only (no YouTube, sorry) but I'll do my best to just run through some things like what you describe above.

Sorry if I am coming across as evasive; at the end of the day I'm just a musician and I don't have a ton of experience with this sort of "making demos" kind of stuff. I didn't actually get the DDRM for the presets -- to date I've never actually gone through all of them! -- but mostly for what I could craft myself. I'll do my best, but no promises that it'll be amazeballz!! wink
M-Prod
Dont worry. I would appreciate It but would also understand if you decide not to make any more demo's. I'm not trying to pressure anyone, I'm just excited and my lackluster English (I'm not native) might make things sound harsher then I mean them. Only make them if you want to. We're all busy people.. especially around these days.
battema
No worries at all, M-Prod...my English tends to be overly "tongue in cheek" too so if I seemed bothered, well: I wasn't! It's all good smile

I've got a pretty good sense of what I can do for you folks, and plan to mess around with things tomorrow and this weekend. Hopefully you folks like the results!
dubnspace
nice to see this'll be at NAMM so I can get hands on with one.
Slapbass99
My unit is sorted so I will post up some demos as well. I am not using the DD with poly aftertouch, I am sequencing via my computer + Octatrack. So I am probably not the best person to show examples of what the synth is capable of.

I will say this - the unit is awesome, and very powerful. I love the envelope filter, it reminds me a bit of my of my Juno 6, but it is backed by 8 VCOs. It definitely sounds like an CS-80, but you can also go beyond the typical Vangelis type sound so many people purchased this unit for.

The unit is smaller than I expected, and despite my initial hiccups, build quality is excellent. If you are looking for an analog poly to add to your stable, the DD is a great option.
battema
Hi folks!

Okay, so here's a new sample thingy on Soundcloud for you:

https://soundcloud.com/user-112960267/deckards-dream-tone-samples

For this one, I went a *very* basic route: this is a demo of each tone in the DD (saw, square, sine, and noise), played single tones across the full range of a keyboard plus a few high/low chords. No effects, no dynamics or aftertouch, just pure tones.

To M-Prod's point about how the DDRM sounds in different ranges and whatnot, and given that my own feeling is that the DDRM is best when one creates their own sounds, I thought a quick demo showing the building blocks might be helpful smile

Next I'm going to try and do some samples with filter sweeps...but please do let me know if this is helpful or not. Hopefully so!!
battema
Okay, two more "building block" samples:

Filter sweeps, both low and high pass on the various waveforms:

https://soundcloud.com/user-112960267/deckards-dream-filter-samples

Various pulse and PWM settings:

https://soundcloud.com/user-112960267/deckards-dream-pulse-and-pwm-sam ples

(PS: sorry...just noticed the last one has quite a bit of silence at the end...I'll fix and re-upload in a bit. The sound part is all fine though).

Hope this helps! Need to break for lunch and other stuff but will try to noodle around with some of the presets this afternoon...
M-Prod
Wow Thanks!! That's a thorough demo. This is really helpful (to me at least)!. Imo it also sounds good with simple sounds. And you're right It does sound similar to the Juno filter(s). Meaning a lovely musical filter. Like the pmw. More low end then I could hear in other examples. Simple saw chords show it's analog character (It's a shame SoundCloud's quality is so low at 128 Kbps). There's a mellow tone to it overall.

How are you doing on your issues? Fan, output silent, Linnstrument over USB
, sustain behaviors etc.

Slap bass also thanks for sharing your xp (like the size)
battema
Good, I'm glad this helped!

I have an idea, not a *brilliant* idea but an idea nonetheless...I have a Bandcamp page. I can take some of these demos from Soundcloud and upload them as WAV files to Bandcamp, and then make a private album to share with you folks. That way, you can download in FLAC or higher-res mp3 or even WAV if you want, and hear things in slightly better quality.

It'll take me a bit to sort that out, but I'll try and make it happen in the next day or so.

I actually just heard from Black Corp yesterday, they think they've found and resolved my fan issue with their next firmware update. So, that's fantastic! I've not heard anything specific on the other issues but I am sure they are in progress as well.
estin
Someone has the kit posted on craigslist and I'm damn tempted knowing full well it would be a monumental task to take on.
symstym
battema wrote:
Okay, two more "building block" samples:

Filter sweeps, both low and high pass on the various waveforms:

https://soundcloud.com/user-112960267/deckards-dream-filter-samples

Various pulse and PWM settings:

https://soundcloud.com/user-112960267/deckards-dream-pulse-and-pwm-sam ples

(PS: sorry...just noticed the last one has quite a bit of silence at the end...I'll fix and re-upload in a bit. The sound part is all fine though).

Hope this helps! Need to break for lunch and other stuff but will try to noodle around with some of the presets this afternoon...


Thanks for this! I noticed that between each of your test notes, there are faint but audible tones. For example in your first link, at 0:13. I don't have particularly good ears but they are audible to me at normal levels, and visible in the Soundcloud visualization as well.

I wonder if that's noise from the DD (e.g. VCA's leaking?) or from your external gear/recording. Or maybe just something about how you have your envelopes set? That would be pretty concerning if that was a flaw in the DD itself. I noticed it goes completely silent around 0:48, not sure if you joined multiple recordings there.
battema
Honestly, I'm just manually using the filter sliders, no envelopes or the like...so that would just be a bit of bleed. I do hear it as well.

So yeah, something in the DDRM itself. Next email I send to those folks, I'll mention this as well!
M-Prod
I assumed this was from the SoundCloud conversion. Do you also hear it directly from the dd ? If it's indeed bleed that's not good.
battema
Nope, not just Soundcloud...if I crank the gain on the DDRM and listen closely, it's there. I couldn't actually hear it at first over the fan!

There's an issue that was raised on FB, where the sliders don't always go fully to 0 and 255 at either end (in debug mode, mine sometimes hit 255, sometimes 249, sometimes 251, and so on). It's possible what we're hearing is the result of a slider not going full zero when I've got it all the way down.
Slapbass99
M-Prod wrote:
I assumed this was from the SoundCloud conversion. Do you also hear it directly from the dd ? If it's indeed bleed that's not good.


This is the issue I was talking about earlier, it is really bad on the headphone out, but it is there on the main out as well, for the most part I have not noticed it when using the DD in conjunction with my studio mates 002 rack, but if you crank the unit enough, you will hear it. I tend to notice it more if you bias the synth to the second voice vs the first.
battema
Yeah, hopefully this is something they can resolve. In the interim, I've added a very subtle gate in the signal path.

Speaking of demos and things, I did this yesterday very, very, VERY quickly. It's far from flawless but was rather fun:

https://soundcloud.com/user-112960267/bells-groove

It came from a little jam with the Linnstrument & DDRM, and a Meris Ottobit mangling the signal along with some random stutter. Again, not a pure demo at all given the heavy FX processing but just some fun studio noodling smile
symstym
Slapbass99 wrote:
M-Prod wrote:
I assumed this was from the SoundCloud conversion. Do you also hear it directly from the dd ? If it's indeed bleed that's not good.


This is the issue I was talking about earlier, it is really bad on the headphone out, but it is there on the main out as well, for the most part I have not noticed it when using the DD in conjunction with my studio mates 002 rack, but if you crank the unit enough, you will hear it. I tend to notice it more if you bias the synth to the second voice vs the first.


I was considering getting in on the next preorder that closes in a couple days but that seems like a frustrating flaw given the price, that might not be easy to fix if it's a design problem. I contacted them to ask about it a couple days ago but no response yet.
M-Prod
Same for me. Also mailed them about the status of the various issues mentioned here and on fb. I guess I will also skip this round until there are some answers. Also there is a 1 year warranty, I wonder what the procedure will be when there are issues. I asked them about it. Send it back to Japan? Wait for repair? Get a new one shipped? Who pays for shipping?
M-Prod
Ok they got back to me (really quick). Apparently they are addressing all issues for build #2 (not sure if that means they will be fixed). So things are looking good. @symstym, did they get back to you already?
Slapbass99
M-Prod wrote:
Ok they got back to me (really quick). Apparently they are addressing all issues for build #2 (not sure if that means they will be fixed). So things are looking good. @symstym, did they get back to you already?


I hope that they reward the early adopters by fixing the issues in the current units. I bet the fan is just a firmware update and perhaps the noise as well.
battema
Bob @ Black Corp told me that they think they found a firmware fix for the fan issue in particular, so I'm hopeful that'll be better with the next revision!
symstym
M-Prod wrote:
Ok they got back to me (really quick). Apparently they are addressing all issues for build #2 (not sure if that means they will be fixed). So things are looking good. @symstym, did they get back to you already?


Thanks for letting me know. How did you contact them? I used the contact form on the main web site but perhaps that isn't reaching them.
mayyammay
To all having issues with bugs, noise bleed, fan, etc., did you buy your DD prebuilt or the DIY kit? Thanks!
battema
Prebuilt
Slapbass99
mayyammay wrote:
To all having issues with bugs, noise bleed, fan, etc., did you buy your DD prebuilt or the DIY kit? Thanks!


Yup prebuilt. The thing about the issues is that it makes me kinda torn on the synth. At first I was freaking out about the noise issues, but once I messed around a bit with the synth i realized that for the most part it does not creep through that often, on the flip side for 3700 I want for the synth to work perfectly. We will see what fixes they have in store.
battema
Speaking *just* for myself...I didn't expect it to be perfect out the gate, and I have been okay with essentially doing some late-stage testing.

It *is* a very expensive purchase and I can totally appreciate the perspective of anyone who isn't OK with that.

Hopefully we'll see a new firmware release sometime in the near future, to help ease some of the various concerns!
M-Prod
symstym wrote:
M-Prod wrote:
Ok they got back to me (really quick). Apparently they are addressing all issues for build #2 (not sure if that means they will be fixed). So things are looking good. @symstym, did they get back to you already?


Thanks for letting me know. How did you contact them? I used the contact form on the main web site but perhaps that isn't reaching them.


I guess i also used the form. Bob got back to me. And bob (bob@black-corporation.com) has been very helpful and responsive so far.
symstym
M-Prod wrote:
symstym wrote:
M-Prod wrote:
Ok they got back to me (really quick). Apparently they are addressing all issues for build #2 (not sure if that means they will be fixed). So things are looking good. @symstym, did they get back to you already?


Thanks for letting me know. How did you contact them? I used the contact form on the main web site but perhaps that isn't reaching them.


I guess i also used the form. Bob got back to me. And bob (bob@black-corporation.com) has been very helpful and responsive so far.


Thanks! I wrote to that address and got a pretty quick response. I've asked for some more details, which he said he would try to get me tomorrow, I'll post whatever I learn here.
c411vm
If I'm interpreting the schematics correctly, the DD envelopes would seem to be software generated; can anyone confirm?

I'm curious to know how fast they can be; would a DD owner with the means to run some quantitative tests be so kind as to publish typical minimum attack times here?

Thanks in advance.
itstoms
Hey I've got a couple of Qs for whoever can answer.

Does anyone know if the expander unit will have it's state saved and recalled via patch data? That would be rad.
Also, can the lfos be assigned to different parameters on the synth? Mod matrix anywhere? Can params be controlled via midi? Lots of IO questions.

Looking for reasons to pull the trigger. hihi
M-Prod
battema wrote:
Honestly, I'm just manually using the filter sliders, no envelopes or the like...so that would just be a bit of bleed. I do hear it as well.

So yeah, something in the DDRM itself. Next email I send to those folks, I'll mention this as well!


Did you get any response to the bleed issue? It must be a hardware thing. Have they found it? Will they get it fixed for you?
battema
itstoms wrote:
Hey I've got a couple of Qs for whoever can answer.

Does anyone know if the expander unit will have it's state saved and recalled via patch data? That would be rad.
Also, can the lfos be assigned to different parameters on the synth? Mod matrix anywhere? Can params be controlled via midi? Lots of IO questions.

Looking for reasons to pull the trigger. hihi


Howdy...not sure on the expander, since it doesn't exist yet ;-)

No mod matrix that I can see, beyond the ones available via sliders (again, this may be changeable with the expander).

There is a MIDI implementation chart that covers all the sliders, yep.

Hope this (slightly) helps!
battema
M-Prod wrote:
Did you get any response to the bleed issue? It must be a hardware thing. Have they found it? Will they get it fixed for you?


No definite answer yet...that issue isn't bothering me as much as it is others, so I'm not pushing that one as heavily.

Funny thing about that (well, it'll be funny for *me* anyway)...I was toying around last night with my Ottobit and noticed that once I started crushing bits and reducing sample rate and absolutely cranked the DDRM to max volume, the pedal could pick up the noise and started creating short burts of distorted sound. Being a bit of a noise music fan, I actually started up my DAW and started creating a track. It's quite lovely, I hope to use it in a song at some point hihi

My biggest issue has been the fan, and per Bob it sounds like that is due for the next firmware, so I'm already happy. Also, on FB Roman mentioned a few of the "sound structure" issues would be resolved (like the quirks in Sustain II mode).

I'm excited for the new firmware, whenever it arrives. I suspect that is going to plug quite a few of these "early" holes in the synth. Maybe not everything (and maybe something new crops up), but certainly some (many?) of the oddities.

Meanwhile, quirks aside...I'm still playing the hell out of this thing and loving it to death. Starting to feel *slightly* less like a Linnstrument novice too, which helps a ton. The whole MPE per-note pitch bend is excellent; for example, hold a low note (maybe adding a touch of aftertouch), plus an octave higher, and then glide the upper note down to meet the lower. With just the right amount of finger movement, you can create some massive, thick, drone-like textures.

Big shock: I'm a fan wink
battema
^ oh, just to clarify...the Ottobit can pick up the noise only once I've started the bitcrushing, basically causing quantize-type errors. With the pedal disengaged, I can barely hear the bleed noise.
itstoms
Well, looks like I'm now along for the ride MY ASS IS BLEEDING
battema
Congratulations!!!
Pando
itstoms wrote:
Hey I've got a couple of Qs for whoever can answer.

Does anyone know if the expander unit will have it's state saved and recalled via patch data? That would be rad.
Also, can the lfos be assigned to different parameters on the synth? Mod matrix anywhere? Can params be controlled via midi? Lots of IO questions.

Looking for reasons to pull the trigger. hihi


I would be very surprised if it doesn't have that capability. Looking at the DDRM schematics, there is an expander connection, which is just a generic bidirectional serial data interface. There has to be an ARM CPU chip on the expander as well and those two will talk. The rest is all in firmware how it's going to be implemented.

CC list of all the sliders was published on FB. Perhaps Steve can update it here as well?
nidas
Where on Facebook is the Deckards dream group?
link anybody?
M-Prod
https://www.facebook.com/groups/deckardsdream/?fref=ts

You need to apply for the group and wait for approval (a day or so). It's called Deckard's Dream Build Group.
Kipling
nidas wrote:
Where on Facebook is the Deckards dream group?
link anybody?

Just search for Deckard’s Dream Build Group
M-Prod
itstoms wrote:
Well, looks like I'm now along for the ride MY ASS IS BLEEDING


So am I !!!.... Driving
sduck
M-Prod wrote:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/deckardsdream/?fref=ts

You need to apply for the group and wait for approval (a day or so). It's called Deckard's Dream Build Group.


There is also a general purpose, non-builder group. It's new. https://www.facebook.com/groups/547920848891200/
itstoms
battema wrote:
There is a MIDI implementation chart that covers all the sliders, yep.

That opens up a lot more sonic possibilities for me!

Pando wrote:
I would be very surprised if it doesn't have that capability. Looking at the DDRM schematics, there is an expander connection, which is just a generic bidirectional serial data interface. There has to be an ARM CPU chip on the expander as well and those two will talk. The rest is all in firmware how it's going to be implemented.

I wasn't quite clear on how it operated, but that sound very flexable. Quite exiting!

Now my parts just need to arrive cool
battema
M-Prod wrote:
itstoms wrote:
Well, looks like I'm now along for the ride MY ASS IS BLEEDING


So am I !!!.... Driving


Fantastic! Welcome along for the ride hihi
Sinamsis
Sorry, I've lost track of this thread. I have the opportunity to trade for a kit. How much more are the remaining parts and are there any folks building these? Does it even make sense to buy a kit and pay someone to build it, versus buying a factory built one?
sduck
No. It doesn't make sense, that is. By the time you pay for everything and someone's time to put it all together, it'll cost more than a prebuilt unit.
kbrush
Roli came in today...this thing is nutso nanners

battema
Very cool! I hope it works well for you smile
itstoms
I put together a little playlist of some of the more standout demos I've found on SC. Mostly to help tide my own hype over while I'm waiting for parts. But if anyone else is curious: https://soundcloud.com/itstoms/sets/good-deckards-dream-demos

Also, I'd love to hear other good demo's that aren't already on here!
Ambientdreaming
Is there any word on the release of the CV & effects expander?

Are the CV inputs for modulating with eurorack gear and things like the Expressive e touchee?

How about starting a picture thread on this beautiful synth?

Cheers.
battema
Well, here's mine:



The pic was mainly to also show the Meris lovelies that are processing the DDRM. They are, all three of them, fantastically awesome.
Ambientdreaming
Oh yeah! Nice.

I have seen some demos of the Meris pedals and they're very impressive.
WIZARDISHUNGRY
Does anyone have a tutorial on how to sequence poly aftertouch using ableton?
battema
Sorry, no...I am still using the soon-to-be-deceased Sonar.
Pando
Here's a comparison I put together for the iconic Blade Runner sound:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUGIxaQsXjY
Ambientdreaming
Pando wrote:
Here's a comparison I put together for the iconic Blade Runner sound:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUGIxaQsXjY


Sounds lovely!
Man-In-A-Suitcase
So... are all you Deckard's Dream owners now growing curly hair and a big bushy beard, and opening your shirts to reveal a hairy chest with a big medallion.
ultravox
Man-In-A-Suitcase wrote:
So... are all you Deckard's Dream owners now growing curly hair and a big bushy beard, and opening your shirts to reveal a hairy chest with a big medallion.


Actually, Vangelis has been copying my style.
Brinsow
Anyone going to NAMM, booth 10905 to check out the expander unit?

Would love to see some video of it.
battema
The expander is up for preorder on the DD site grin

http://www.deckardsdream.com/shop
Ambientdreaming
battema wrote:
The expander is up for preorder on the DD site grin

http://www.deckardsdream.com/shop


Oh nice!!

@battema Checked out your Deckard's Dream Soundcloud tracks, sounds lovely!

I should have mine soon, maybe next week :-)
battema
Thanks! Honestly...I'm very much a novice with sound design. There are folks on the FB groups that are WAY better than I am with showing off just how amazing this box is :-)

Hope you have a blast with your soon-to-arrive DDRM!
wohali
Anyone know if the Expander kit includes the panel/case, or are we going to have to wait for DIY Hub/Andrew to get them done?
itstoms
wohali wrote:
Anyone know if the Expander kit includes the panel/case, or are we going to have to wait for DIY Hub/Andrew to get them done?

According to the description on the web-page; all that's included with the kit are the 5 pcbs with the digital smt parts pre-installed.
scrumbo mcgrumbo
Can't wait to hear this new synth from Black Corp.

http://www.matrixsynth.com/2018/01/new-8-voice-poly-analog-from-black. html
sduck
Will undoubtedly deserve it's own thread once anyone knows anything more about it.
mayyammay
[quote="battema"]
M-Prod wrote:
I'm excited for the new firmware, whenever it arrives. I suspect that is going to plug quite a few of these "early" holes in the synth. Maybe not everything (and maybe something new crops up), but certainly some (many?) of the oddities.


Any news on the next firmware update? I did send Blackcorp with these questions, but never received a response. How are you contacting them?

Thanks!
battema
When did you ping them? They've been fairly busy with NAMM of late, I think.

Roman has been active on FB as well, here and there.

No definite ETA for the firmware upgrade. I'm guessing it'll be within the next quarter (the expander is due around late April/early May).
mayyammay
battema wrote:
When did you ping them? They've been fairly busy with NAMM of late, I think.


It was well before NAMM... I contacted them through the DD site.
rutabaga40


'Naked Edition'...hehe. Still waiting for the faceplate/chassis. Also excited to get the expander with Ring Modulator.
battema
Fun stuff!
bishopmagicdonjuan
My neighbor finally finished a pair of 5U walnut racks for my DDRM/Expander.

the stain is not going to look that goopy btw— its going to be a satin finish oil rub.
jules
Those are serious slabs of wood!
Single cut, it must have been a massive tree.
How thick are they? 5cm?
I would sh*t myself working with such expensive material.

Your synth will be protected for the next 2 centuries.
bishopmagicdonjuan
3/4” thick i believe- my home studio is furnished with mid century danish modern furniture and i got so sick of staring at all of these ugly MDF studio racks and beige ikea trash.
wohali
In case anyone was wondering - my DIYHub panel/case just arrived (Canada). It looks faboo...worth the wait.

Guess I'm getting start on that build this weekend hmmm.....
SOPiiAC
I got my case today too! It's peanut butter jelly time!
Simonm
My pre-built is on its way !
battema
Score, dude!!
nadafarms
I keep going back and forth on ordering a prebuilt, it’s scary for me buying something new this expensive... have there been any bad issues so far with units? Tuning problems? I read reports of bleeding here and there...
battema
The first batch had some challenges...many of those appear to have been resolved with the newer batches, plus the updated firmware fixed quite a few oddball behaviors.

I love mine to bits.
ualslosar
When are first expanders due to ship, does any one know?
BTG
mine is on the way as well -- anyone know how hot these get? Do I need to leave room above it in my rack?
askthedust
Anyone knows what's the current wait time for a prebuilt?
iguano
My round 2 prebuilt shipped this week. There were some delays - not sure if round 3 will be affected. Can't wait to get it!
ishi
Prebuilts round #2 arriving. Happy dreaming..

witchbutter
This thread is insanely long.

Is there anyone using CV to MIDI converters different from the optional one? Does anyone have a plan on how to work this with a eurorack sequencer?
Sinamsis
witchbutter wrote:
This thread is insanely long.

Is there anyone using CV to MIDI converters different from the optional one? Does anyone have a plan on how to work this with a eurorack sequencer?


Not specific to this but I use my ADDAC 221/222 with my MIDI synths and it's great.
witchbutter
Sinamsis wrote:

Not specific to this but I use my ADDAC 221/222 with my MIDI synths and it's great.

Those are the ones I had my eye on, particularly the 221 which seems like it would be ideal. As far as the 222 how does that work with tuning? Are you able to get outside exact midi notes (detuning)? 222 makes you able to play triads? Have you used it with the DD specifically?
ualslosar
Hi -
Regarding the LCD push buttons, how do I:
Switch Banks ?
Return to PNL screen?
Delete something i've saved using SAVE?

Is loading a pre-set as simple as pushing the LOAD button?

Sorry for all the questions but I'm just getting started with this.

Thanks for the responses
Larry
mOBiTh
ualslosar wrote:
Hi -
Regarding the LCD push buttons, how do I:
Switch Banks ?
Return to PNL screen?
Delete something i've saved using SAVE?

Is loading a pre-set as simple as pushing the LOAD button?

Sorry for all the questions but I'm just getting started with this.

Thanks for the responses
Larry


Bank change: Hold shift and the button text will change to show the three banks (if you have them installed) on buttons 1-3.
M-Prod
Switch Banks ? See mOBiTh
Return to PNL screen? press shift, up and down together.
Delete something i've saved using SAVE? No idea, but you can overwrite it easily.

Is loading a pre-set as simple as pushing the LOAD button?
Easier, just push up or down and the preset is loaded instantly.
Panason
jeez
ualslosar
Sorry for the questions, but I'm unaware of any usage instructions provided (and I'm not sure my DIY unit is working properly at this point).
Panason
There is no manual???
BTG
I’m confused...is there a manual?
sduck
we don't need no stinking manuals
Panason
You're probably just being flippant but IMO it's not OK for a machine at this price range not to come with a printed manual...
battema
For specific architecture, took very little time to work out the basics (i.e. how to save a patch, make changes to settings, etc.).

For the synth architecture / sound design, given its proximity to the CS-80 I worked out most of the rest using existing CS-80 documentation online.

There's also a very very knowledgeable users (and build) group on FB that answers just about any question that comes up.

So...*IMHO* a manual would be nice (PDF would be greatly preferred over a printed book), but is hardly essential in this case.
BTG
Anyone know when expanders are shipping? Web site says May but I haven’t heard anything else.
battema
On the FB group I believe it was mentioned that Roman is reworking some stuff with the chorus first, hence the delay.
Abomb1st
Hi Guys does anyone have a linnstrument hooked up to one of these? I just picked up a linnstrument and trying to make it so i can slide between notes and not just do massive mod wheel pitch leaps when i try to slide, any advice for best way to set this up would be appreciated! Thanks
battema
Hi there;

Yep, I use a Linnstrument with mine. There is an issue between the DD and the Linnstrument in terms of the power needed, so a direct connection isn't entirely reliable. Per Black Corp's suggestion, I added a Kenton USB-to-MIDI box between the two and it works perfectly (you can also route the Linnstrument through your computer and then connect to DD via MIDI that way).

As for settings, I usually set both to MPE mode for maximum value (that is what lets you do slides per note).

You'll want to experiment with the Y axis and pressure sensitivity to suit your particular playing style. My experience so far has been, a little bit goes a long way. Low slider settings for Aftertouch on the DD can make pretty huge leaps in the sound at times.

Have fun!
Abomb1st
thanks! Ill try through the computer and see how i get on. First attempt was with linnstrument plugged in to power and then just a normal 5 pin midi to the synth. Is that not advisable?
battema
MIDI should be fine.

The trick was if the Linnstrument was directly hooked to the DD via USB and expecting to be powered as well. That's why Black Corp suggested an "interim" device like the Kenton that could provide the needed Linnstrument power over USB.

I will say...controlling the DD with a Linnstrument is a ton of fun smile I'm a pianist so the alternate layout took some adjusting but it is super cool. And yes...those single note pitch glides are just plain awesome.

Have fun!!
Abomb1st
Okay great i have it working now! So you can only slide one note and not moving whole chords it seems, is that just how the linnstrument works with this synth? Thanks for your help. I think its going to be a lot of fun!
battema
Yeah...if you want to do whole chords, you either need to practice really hard with your hands to get uniform movement...OR, you can change the "low row" setting on the Linnstrument to basically be a pitch bender.

In earlier firmware versions on the DD, this was a little problematic...the pitch row didn't work in MPE mode like it was supposed to, but that may be fixed now.

Alternately...you could do this: set the Linnstrument and DD to polyphonic aftertouch and then set the low row on the Linnstrument to pitch bend. You won't be able to do single-note glides ala MPE, but you'll have poly aftertouch and chord pitch bends.

Experiment and see what suits you best!!
Abomb1st
Thanks again, i realise i was being stupid and failed to set the linnstrument to channel per note and now i can drift from chord to chord and it sounds great! What a synth!
battema
Isn't it fun?? Have a blast smile
ishi
Roman Filippov‎ to Deckard's Dream Users Group:

"To all Expander customers,

In the final stage of manufacturing, we have come to the determination that we are not happy with our implementation of the CV to MIDI section of Deckard’s Dream CV & Effects Expander and we do not believe our customers would be either. This is due to limitations of Deckard’s Dream itself and unfortunately can not be overcome.

As a result, we have gone back to the drawing board and have decided to replace the CV to MIDI section with delay and reverb with independent panel controls which will further enhance the audio capabilities of the unit. We are very excited about the added effects and think they will help bring some added depth to sonic exploration. We also have extended RINGMOD's EG to a full ADRS.

In order to implement the changes, we will unfortunately be required to delay the shipping of expanders until September. Whereas we understand this is disappointing news for most of you, we hope the finished product will make up for the delay and changes. We also understand that this news may be unacceptable for some and so we will issue a complete refund to customers who no longer wish to wait or not happy with a redesign.

Deepest apologies from all of us at Black Corporation and thank you for your continued patience and support."
thewizmusic
So just to clarify they are removing the CV portion completely? If they are replacing it with reverb and delay I am not seeing the value.
battema
Yes, the CV-to-MIDI is now gone on the expander.

I personally do see the value (for me the CV-to-MIDI was going to be wasted space). YMMV.
whyfarer
I was pretty excited for the cv to midi.... I may cancel my pr-eorder and wait to see what the expander actually sounds like first. I think the value totally depends on the quality of the effects they put in
thewizmusic
@whyfarer I am in the same boat. I just keep thinking of all the multi fx or pedals I could pick up for $1k. It would depend on everything that is included in the expander.
askthedust
Following the news I canceled my expander kit preorder and picked up a Dimension C pedal instead. Stereo chorus was all I needed (and I was already disappointed with the chorus being digital).
battema
Main draw for the expander for me is the ring modulator, and the front-panel access to sustain I/II is nice. I don't *need* the FX, but will be happy to give them a listen and see how they sound (thus far the DD hasn't let me down in terms of sonics).
thewizmusic
I suppose for me it's the concept of an expander type module.

Normally it expands the capabilities of whatever the original synth or module. I just do not thing FX is actually expanding in the same sense of why you would use an expander. Just build a general FX rack then and sell it as that. besides the sustain, I really don't see anything that is specific to the synth. Expanders for a special synth can be marked up in price generally speaking (I know anyone can mark up a price on anything) but like I said...depending on what they load into it I would rather go buy a tried and true FX rack. I still have not received a confirmation of the questions I sent back over to Bob. I will wait and see what he says.

MY ASS IS BLEEDING
SynthBaron
So, the Arturia version still works better than this $5000 not-a-CS-80? lol
Corrupt
SynthBaron wrote:
So, the Arturia version still works better than this $5000 not-a-CS-80? lol


Get a grip.
askthedust
Dad, what is trolling?


SynthBaron wrote:
So, the Arturia version still works better than this $5000 not-a-CS-80? lol
SynthBaron
It just keeps drifting away from what everyone hoped it was going to be.
ultravox
Me and the all the gents I know that own a Deckard's Dream seem to really enjoy the synth. In fact some of the guys own more than one.

It may not be the synth for you, but that doesn't mean it falls short of the mark.

Even Martin Gore of Depeche Mode owns one... so it can't be all that bad.
SynthBaron
I get it, you're financially and thus emotionally invested in the product. But that still doesn't change reality.
thewizmusic
To clarify my position...I only have concerns with the expander. I am still all in for the synth.

You go ahead and enjoy your synth...hell buy all of them from Arturia...get slight variations of the same synth with a different skin lol.

All jokes aside this might be a niche synth but I am fairly confident it will keep or grow its value.
WaveRider
..from what I have heard of it, has a great tone, sounds fantastic. providing it is not buggy, it is a synth to get if you can afford it... I would based on what I have heard no doubt.

It does not have to be a clone of the cs80 to be a great synth. Sad for the ring mod -great for effects. I had a CS60 and I had a blast whit it.

great palette of sounds
Corrupt
The synth unit alone is *incredible*. There are some bugs and occasional foibles (e.g. don't boot it with an active USB connection), hopefully to be ironed out – but regardless, nothing else sounds like it save a CS-80 (or 60). One thing that has to be mentioned: MPE – with a DDRM and an MPE controller it's very hard to go back to "normal" synths and their crappy aftertouch.

If it hadn't lived up to expectations I'd have no issues with selling it on. Zero "emotional investment" – if anything I was coming from a position of scepticism.

Note-triggered RM isn't a tough one to come up with by other means, holding on to see how the expander actually sounds.
ultravox
DDRM really does sound good and the filter is nice too.

I ordered the DIY version of the expander and there's not much news other than the removal of the CV jacks and adding reverb and delay. What kind of reverb and delay they're adding is unknown to me.
jmelland
Abomb1st wrote:
Thanks again, i realise i was being stupid and failed to set the linnstrument to channel per note and now i can drift from chord to chord and it sounds great! What a synth!


Hey There! I'm new to DD as of today and am using it with a Linnstrument. Would you mind sharing your settings for both the DD and the Linnstrument that enable you to do polyphonic glissando and chord to chord glissando? I have mine set like this :

DD is in MPE Mode

Linnstrument is going through the DAW and out to the DD via a 5 pin midi cable.

Linnstrument has been fully reset and put into both channel per note (the blue mode) and Channel per row.

When I engage two notes they both play fine, but if I slide both fingers at the same time it's not responding correctly. sound gets jumbled ...etc.

also if I hold one note like a drone and play a melody with the other hand, when I re-attack a note it cuts off all the notes and the drone needs to be re attacked. This wasn't happening when it was in normal midi mode.

I feel like I don't have a setting right. Any help you can offer would be greatly appreciated! Thank you!
jmelland
jmelland wrote:
Abomb1st wrote:
Thanks again, i realise i was being stupid and failed to set the linnstrument to channel per note and now i can drift from chord to chord and it sounds great! What a synth!


Hey There! I'm new to DD as of today and am using it with a Linnstrument. Would you mind sharing your settings for both the DD and the Linnstrument that enable you to do polyphonic glissando and chord to chord glissando? I have mine set like this :

DD is in MPE Mode

Linnstrument is going through the DAW and out to the DD via a 5 pin midi cable.

Linnstrument has been fully reset and put into both channel per note (the blue mode) and Channel per row.

When I engage two notes they both play fine, but if I slide both fingers at the same time it's not responding correctly. sound gets jumbled ...etc.

also if I hold one note like a drone and play a melody with the other hand, when I re-attack a note it cuts off all the notes and the drone needs to be re attacked. This wasn't happening when it was in normal midi mode.

I feel like I don't have a setting right. Any help you can offer would be greatly appreciated! Thank you!


Never Mind! Got sorted out on the FB page!
Rex Coil 7
bishopmagicdonjuan wrote:
My neighbor finally finished a pair of 5U walnut racks for my DDRM/Expander.

the stain is not going to look that goopy btw— its going to be a satin finish oil rub.
KREG fasteners!

Damn it ... I keep forgetting to buy myself one of the KREG starter kits any time I have a little bit of ready cash. That stuff makes cab construction a TON simpler.
Bobo Fret
My first post, so go easy on me...

1. I'm sure this info is hiding in plain sight, but how many RU's is the DD? The expander looks like 1 RU as far as I can tell from the pics.

2. I don't suppose anyone has a pic of the updated expander without all the CV ins/outs. Perhaps they're not shipping yet. I dunno.

3. There was some talk of a manual above, but any new info? Is there going to be one eventually. It sure would benefit moi.
battema
Hello!

1. DD is 4 RU ( https://www.deckardsdream.com/specs )

2. Expander isn't in production yet. Roland posted a mockup pic on FB a while ago but that's it thus far. ETA was September (probably will be a bit longer tho).

3. No manual, although one of the powers users has done a PDF of the menu system layout (join the FB Deckard's Dream group for that one). For the synthesis structure, suggested reading is most typically either the Arturia CS-80V manual, or an old CS-80 manual (both should be floating around the webs as PDFs).

Hope this helps!
JB
Bobo Fret
Awesome! Thanks!

I happen to own a CS-80V manual, so I'll get on that. Haven't looked at it in years Mr. Green
jak
...and as you suspected, the expander is 1 RU (in the faq it says that there will be 4u and 5u cases).

Is there any info on the differences between the runs? I just heard that run 2 was smaller and lighter, any changes in 3 and 4?
Muse FTW
To those who own this: any cases you can recommend? I’d like to keep it on top of my desk, maybe at a slight angle if possible.
Corrupt
Ross Lamond makes a lovely one.
Muse FTW
Thanks!

Overall would you say you're happy with your DD?

I'm still debating it. I know people have had issues with theirs but it seems like a lot of the bugs have been ironed out, especially with the revision.
battema
I think it is a fantastic synth. I don't have *deep* experience with many analog polysynths but it sounds amazing, is tons of fun to experiment with, and when paired with a good MPE controller like the Linnstrument or a Roli, is ridiculously expressive to play.
witchbutter
I just received my DD and I have constant crackling and noise on the output that does not exist in the headphone jack. Is the output unbalanced, balanced or stereo?
battema
It isn't stereo, I think it's unbalanced...but that sounds like something maybe came loose in shipping.

Might want to reach out to Black Corp on this one, they may owe you some warranty work.
GavRL
there's a big old chunk of info to take in on this thread; The DD is number one on my want list. The price (especially in the UK) seems a bit top heavy, and the talk of bugs is more than a little concerning for a £3.5k synth... and yet, I still want one. Hadnt realised it wasnt stereo - that seems a bit of an oversight; makes me think twice about any thoughts of trading my Prophet 6 in against it. The demo vids I've heard sound pretty special though, cant deny that. Im far less concerned about whether it sounds exactly like a CS-80 or not.
battema
The expander will apparently have stereo outputs.

And there's a mod that folks on the FB group put together that allows you to route each of the voices to a separate output.

I'm not sure where the bug count stands now...some recent firmware updates knocked out about 95% of all the bugs I knew of.

It isn't cheap.
witchbutter
Given that it has no effects section, I don't see the value of making it stereo. It's meant to be a polysynth, using the 8 voices to create one rich complex voice. The expander has effects that become interesting if you go mono to stereo, which is probably why they added that.
GavRL
witchbutter wrote:
Given that it has no effects section, I don't see the value of making it stereo. It's meant to be a polysynth, using the 8 voices to create one rich complex voice. The expander has effects that become interesting if you go mono to stereo, which is probably why they added that.


Really? - I’d have thought it was obvious? Being able to spread the voices over the stereo field gives much more depth to the sound.
ultravox
Uhhh...spam?
t3h 8@nz3r@t3d you kids get off my lawn
Abomb1st
Hey guys,

I love my Deckard's Dream, paired with a linnstrument its fantastic. I am deep into Euro land which is the reason i went for it when i heard of the expander. Now the cv to midi is not happening I'm questioning its value as i have delays and reverbs already. Im tempted to cancel my expander order, what is everyone else's thoughts on this?
Abomb1st
sorry i meant midi to cv not this shit again

edit: actually i was right the first time not this shit again not this shit again
ultravox
Abomb1st wrote:
Hey guys,

I love my Deckard's Dream, paired with a linnstrument its fantastic. I am deep into Euro land which is the reason i went for it when i heard of the expander. Now the cv to midi is not happening I'm questioning its value as i have delays and reverbs already. Im tempted to cancel my expander order, what is everyone else's thoughts on this?


There's a new Black Corp Instagram post on the expander. The analog ring mod sounds great. The chorus will be DSP. Also, the reverb and delay are DSP. I'm committed to building one so I'll find out soon enough if its redundant to the gear I already have.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BmyLN7cF_CV/?taken-by=blackcorporation_jp
whyfarer
Abomb1st wrote:
Hey guys,

I love my Deckard's Dream, paired with a linnstrument its fantastic. I am deep into Euro land which is the reason i went for it when i heard of the expander. Now the cv to midi is not happening I'm questioning its value as i have delays and reverbs already. Im tempted to cancel my expander order, what is everyone else's thoughts on this?


I cancelled my expander order for exactly this reason. I was super excited to pair it with my eurorack but I already have delays, reverbs, and chorus that I like. If all the effects and up sounding super totally amazing then I may reconsider - but I doubt it. At the price point they're selling it for, there are tons of good effects that could be had for much less. I am sad about the ring mod but not sad enough to shell out for it.
ualslosar
How does one use the LOAD & SAVE functions on a DDRM, please?

- Does one LOAD several presets to achieve a desired sound?

Thanks,
Larry
whyfarer
ualslosar wrote:
How does one use the LOAD & SAVE functions on a DDRM, please?

- Does one LOAD several presets to achieve a desired sound?

Thanks,
Larry


No - my understanding is that LOAD will load a single saved sound. SAVE lets you save the settings for the current sound. If you want to combine multiple presets you'll have to do it manually.

Please, someone correct me if I'm wrong.
witchbutter
Am I missing something here? The output on my DD is really quiet. So quiet that even on a line level input there is quite a bit of tape hiss type noise because I have to crank the gain about 12DB.

Also, does anyone know if the Spektro VST ever happened? Seems to be nowhere to download such a thing?
Panason
Check cable and connections?

So what do you do if your DD arrives with issues? Does "Black Corporation" accept returns and who pays the insured shipping back to Japan ? Will carriers even insure such a high value item?
dubchild
Got a V.1 DD. How do I update the firmware?
The info on the website is vague at best.
Pando
witchbutter wrote:
Am I missing something here? The output on my DD is really quiet. So quiet that even on a line level input there is quite a bit of tape hiss type noise because I have to crank the gain about 12DB.

Also, does anyone know if the Spektro VST ever happened? Seems to be nowhere to download such a thing?


Is that with all factory patches? They should have a proper loudness and line levels should be at a correct volume. If you're using custom patches, those may have VCA/VCF levels or filter sliders turned down.

To my knowledge Spektro is still working on that. I don't know the ETA. Meanwhile I made a Windows-only editor you can try out.
Pando
Panason wrote:
So what do you do if your DD arrives with issues? Does "Black Corporation" accept returns and who pays the insured shipping back to Japan ? Will carriers even insure such a high value item?


BC has factory warranty on all prebuilt units (not on DIY). Contact support, last I know they handle shipping for warranty-related issues.
Pando
dubchild wrote:
Got a V.1 DD. How do I update the firmware?
The info on the website is vague at best.


NOTE: Use a Windows PC (important! Macs leave residual files that interfere with the firmware upgrade)

1. Power off, connect USB, then power on while holding Shift button on the panel, USB symbol shows, and your PC should open a USB drive

2. As a precaution, make a backup by copying the 2 user bank files from the USB drive and save them to your computer.

3. Using Windows explorer, copy the new firmware BIN file (last ver 1.2.5) to the USB drive.

4. Power off, remove USB cable, then power on again. The DD will show upgrade process and it will flash the new firmware.

If you have problems, join the Deckard's Dream Users Group on Facebook where help is available nearly instantaneously.
Panason
I don't have a DD, was just curious. I would only buy from a shop in the country where I live.

On a Mac there are various ways to show invisible files so you can delete those junk files that MacOS leaves behind on FAT formatted USB drives... I use Path Finder which is basically what the Finder should have been.
You have to actually delete the files -not put them in the trash- and then immediately eject the USB drive.

There may even be some free utilities specifically for this purpose, which can be found on Macupdate.com
dubchild
^
Thank you both!
Mac user here, but one of my kids has a PC laptop that I borrow from time to time to update synths and gear.
witchbutter
Panason wrote:
On a Mac there are various ways to show invisible files so you can delete those junk files that MacOS leaves behind on FAT formatted USB drives...


I use MacPaw CleanMyDrive, you can quickly dump the junk and then eject in the same interface.
sduck
The one I've found easiest to use on my mac is Eject for Windows - http://www011.upp.so-net.ne.jp/decafish/EjectForWindows/EjectForWindow sE.html

Just throw a shortcut to it in the dock, then drag the icon of your usb drive to it when you want to eject it without all the mac crud.
iguano
Regarding warranty etc - I have a prebuilt and having some screen issues. They are working on a software patch for it but also willing to ship it back to them, fix it and ship it back to me all at their cost.
iguano
sduck wrote:
The one I've found easiest to use on my mac is Eject for Windows - http://www011.upp.so-net.ne.jp/decafish/EjectForWindows/EjectForWindow sE.html

Just throw a shortcut to it in the dock, then drag the icon of your usb drive to it when you want to eject it without all the mac crud.


Very interesting. Did you recently acquire this? I've tried downloading it on their website but the file can't be found. Would like to try this out.
Panason
I used Hidden Cleaner for this job

https://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/27416/hidden-cleaner

of course you can do it all with a few Terminal commands but a typo error there can cause serious damage.
sduck
iguano wrote:
sduck wrote:
The one I've found easiest to use on my mac is Eject for Windows - http://www011.upp.so-net.ne.jp/decafish/EjectForWindows/EjectForWindow sE.html

Just throw a shortcut to it in the dock, then drag the icon of your usb drive to it when you want to eject it without all the mac crud.


Very interesting. Did you recently acquire this? I've tried downloading it on their website but the file can't be found. Would like to try this out.


I've had it for a while, and yes, the download link seems to be broken at the moment. I've sent an email to them about that, maybe it'll get fixed. There are probably other aggregate sites that also have it - not sure if I'd trust them though.
sduck
Here's the download link he/she sent me to use for Eject for Windows: https://www.dropbox.com/s/vlsarvd3dqoi5eu/Eject%20for%20Windows.zip?dl =0
Artsy Moods
Did anyone made some demo of the DD with it's Expander yet? Cant find anything on the net...
ualslosar
I don't believe the Expander's been released yet, hopefully it will be soon. I've not seen any demos either, but I ordered one anyway.

- How do you get the BladeRunner sound out of the DDRM? Which preset do you start with?

Thanks
Larry
Artsy Moods
BTW, sorry for this newb question but I cant find any answer yet:

Did the CS80 had the Ring modulator at the end of the signal path, and was it only one ring modulator applied to the whole resulting signal?

I mean, was there anything related to the ring modulator section on each voices boards or was it a final fx at the end, hence my other question: will this expansion unit for the Deckards Dream be able to really reproduced the same kind of effects done this way?

Thanks for your help!
Pando
ualslosar wrote:
- How do you get the BladeRunner sound out of the DDRM? Which preset do you start with?


Two plain sawtooth waveforms just very slightly detuned (if any), no resonance or high pass filter, with a low pass filter set so that aftertouch will open the filter when keys are pressed down. It's a simple patch, the key to make it realistic is really in the performance.

I replicated the Blade Runner sound by repeating the same notes using Deckard's Dream over the original soundtrack. You can listen to it here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUGIxaQsXjY
Pando
Artsy Moods wrote:
Did the CS80 had the Ring modulator at the end of the signal path, and was it only one ring modulator applied to the whole resulting signal?


Yes.

Artsy Moods wrote:
I mean, was there anything related to the ring modulator section on each voices boards or was it a final fx at the end, hence my other question: will this expansion unit for the Deckards Dream be able to really reproduced the same kind of effects done this way?


And yes.

The CS-80 ring mod sits immediately at the point in the audio path where all voices are mixed together. It then goes into a WAH circuit (foot pedal filter control) and then to the effects section (chorus and tremolo) before being sent to the output.

In the CS-80, the envelope of the ring mod is triggered when any keyboard key is pressed and is held active until the last one is released.

The expander is working the same way by using the MIDI note on/off information to trigger and hold the ring mod envelope until the last MIDI note off is received.

I played around with the final version of the expander at Synthposium last month. It does sound very close to the CS-80 ring mod. There are also more ADSR controls now available for the expander's ring mod than was available in CS-80.

The only known demo of the ring mod is at Black Corp's Instagram page, although this is before the expander's front panel got redesigned:

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bkc0N4LAIdb/
Artsy Moods
Pando wrote:
Artsy Moods wrote:
Did the CS80 had the Ring modulator at the end of the signal path, and was it only one ring modulator applied to the whole resulting signal?


Yes.

Artsy Moods wrote:
I mean, was there anything related to the ring modulator section on each voices boards or was it a final fx at the end, hence my other question: will this expansion unit for the Deckards Dream be able to really reproduced the same kind of effects done this way?


And yes.

The CS-80 ring mod sits immediately at the point in the audio path where all voices are mixed together. It then goes into a WAH circuit (foot pedal filter control) and then to the effects section (chorus and tremolo) before being sent to the output.

In the CS-80, the envelope of the ring mod is triggered when any keyboard key is pressed and is held active until the last one is released.

The expander is working the same way by using the MIDI note on/off information to trigger and hold the ring mod envelope until the last MIDI note off is received.

I played around with the final version of the expander at Synthposium last month. It does sound very close to the CS-80 ring mod. There are also more ADSR controls now available for the expander's ring mod than was available in CS-80.

The only known demo of the ring mod is at Black Corp's Instagram page, although this is before the expander's front panel got redesigned:

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bkc0N4LAIdb/



Thank you soooo much for the clear and complet answer, really helpful!!!
I think this expander will be my next purchase...
nadafarms
Had a chance to dig into my deckards finally,

Can you turn off the sub oscillator? Seems like it’s always on the second voice even if I turn off the waveforms

I’m a little underwhelmed with the modulation, like can’t fm the oscillators?

Love the synth though!
sduck
nadafarms wrote:

Can you turn off the sub oscillator? Seems like it’s always on the second voice even if I turn off the waveforms



There's a sine wave fader over in the VCA section - perhaps that's what you mean by sub oscillator?
ualslosar
Is there any recent news on the progress of the Expander, please? Should be out soon, no?

Thanks
Larry
nadafarms
sduck wrote:
nadafarms wrote:

Can you turn off the sub oscillator? Seems like it’s always on the second voice even if I turn off the waveforms



There's a sine wave fader over in the VCA section - perhaps that's what you mean by sub oscillator?


thanks, and i feel dumb haha.

so noticing that the there is definitely some bleed from voice II when i put the mix to voice I, but no bleed from voice I when put the mix slider to voice II, is that normal? I don't really care but seems odd, this synth is all about gooey sounds anyways

I'm a little confused about the envelope situation, what is envelope amount? VCF Level is the amount of VCF Volume in the mixer right? What is envelope amount? IL AL?

Wish the LFO was a tad slower and faster hmmm.....

I feel like I have to move the sliders a couple times up and down in order to get it to active the function, am I wrong?

Is there a manual?

This is my favorite synth of all time right now, have owned most vintage synths and this is my jam SlayerBadger!
iguano
No manual at the moment. I'm in the facebook group and there's a lot of resources on there including some who have worked on the design of it. Some people have pointed to old CS-80 manuals as being a good source of information. Apparently a manual is coming but no timeframe on that.
ualslosar
- What's the latest word on the Expander, please? (are any shipping, yet?)

Thanks
Larry
sduck
We're all still waiting. Follow the dark corporation on facebook and/or instagram and you'll know as soon as the rest of us.
nadafarms
Is there unison mode? How to do I access it?

God it’s frustrating there is no manual
sduck
A manual is being written it seems - someone posted a preliminary version of it on the facebook group. Attached. Don't take it for gospel, a lot of work still needs to be done.
synthpriest
Following this thread, greatly interested in the DDRM. hyper
donato
The posted manual is about 80% done and quite a bit more thorough than I anticipated. Joining the Facebook group is a must. Took a big chance with this one, but so far it’s my favorite polysynth I’ve ever owned/played.
GavRL
Just ordered a Deckards prebuilt and a Roli Seaboard Block. Sold a whole tonne of stuff to buy it, some of which was a real wrench... but my god I’m excited
locust_locust
GavRL wrote:
Just ordered a Deckards prebuilt and a Roli Seaboard Block. Sold a whole tonne of stuff to buy it, some of which was a real wrench... but my god I’m excited


You can always buy another Jazzmaster. :)
witchbutter
Is anyone mounting their DD at a diagonal? I don't really like having it in a standard rack case. Suggestions?
SOPiiAC
I have mine racked in a rolling mixer stand at an angle. Great to work with from a seated position.
sduck
The tiny screen is nearly invisible when it's vertical, unless you're on eye level with it. So yes, mounting it at an angle is a great idea. Mine has been sitting on a chair, with the front propped up on a box to get an angle for the last few weeks.
exwel
I posted this post also on Gearslutz.

Sorry for my english.
I am a Hard EDM producer from Holland.

I owned a CS60 for 10 years, maintence and tuning was a terrible of my machine.
Sold it because it didn't had midi and it was a money pit for my but i loved the sound and i loved the Ringmod what i missed on the original Deckard's Dream.

I got mine DD with the Expander (all pre build) had a problem with the midi card of the DD.
Bob of Black corparation was very nice to me and the communication was perfect. He helped me with a lot of patience. he send me a new midi card and i installed the card in just 2 minutes (6 screws frontpanel, 2 connectors, and 2 connections of the jackplug, no soldering or what so ever) Everything works now perfect.
I was impressed how the machine looked inside, very clean and well constructed.

The sound of the Ringmod in combination with speed depth and ADSR. is to my ears very good sounding and brings the DD to the next level what i allready hoped. Chores is not special and simpel yet usable. Delay is nice and Reverb is also good enough.


https://www.instagram.com/p/BvHGeKUgm_N/
cl516
delete
Karl_Joseph
Can you just plug in a Roli Seaboard MPE controller directly in to use the MPE functionality?
Birth_Chord
Hmmm, looks like it can be had for around $3,000... Really tempting...
witchbutter
Can anyone explain in short what the difference is between revision 1 and 2?
ultravox
witchbutter wrote:
Can anyone explain in short what the difference is between revision 1 and 2?


I believe rev 2 was redesigned with less components on the voice boards and the PSU was redesigned.

I have a rev 1 and the photos of the rev 2 seem to bear this out.

Sonically they're supposed to be the same.
ndf
Does anyone know or have access to the information on the Deckard's Dream MIDI implementation?

I have seen a controller message list posted somewhere, but that does not seem to be a complete listing confused For example: How to flip in and out of panel mode? How to load or save an entire patch?

Is there even a manual?
seychmar
Absolutely unbelievable that something as expensive as this doesn’t have a manual and full MIDI implementation notes.
Panason
I was thinking that until I understood a bit more about the hardware scene.
Why bother when people are going to pre-order and buy the thing anyway? Black haven't provided documentation because it is not necessary in order to sell the synth. For every person that says Nah, there is at least another that says Yeah!
ndf
Panason wrote:
Why bother when people are going to pre-order and buy the thing anyway?


This is the saddest thing I've seen in a long time. Sorry for your loss.
Panason
It's OK , thanks. The funeral was yesterday.
Pando
ndf wrote:
Does anyone know or have access to the information on the Deckard's Dream MIDI implementation?

I have seen a controller message list posted somewhere, but that does not seem to be a complete listing confused For example: How to flip in and out of panel mode? How to load or save an entire patch?


Those features aren't implemented via MIDI, as far as I know. What's implemented has been published on the CC controller listing.

http://deckardsdream.com/downloads/DD-MIDI-CHART-REV1.0.pdf

There are two more CC# that are not on this list:
Sustain-I-II switch CC#9
Sustain Slider CC#10
ndf
Pando wrote:

There are two more CC# that are not on this list:
Sustain-I-II switch CC#9
Sustain Slider CC#10


Thanks for the update. I'm pretty sure the panel mode switch is in midi somewhere - I'm 57% sure a mellotron M4000 mini will flip the DDRM between bank and panel by moving the A/B mix knob - unfortunately it's not documented either and I don't have one to test confused
Pando
ndf wrote:
Pando wrote:

There are two more CC# that are not on this list:
Sustain-I-II switch CC#9
Sustain Slider CC#10


Thanks for the update. I'm pretty sure the panel mode switch is in midi somewhere - I'm 57% sure a mellotron M4000 mini will flip the DDRM between bank and panel by moving the A/B mix knob - unfortunately it's not documented either and I don't have one to test confused


Banks and patches can be changed with a standard bank change and program change MIDI commands. But if you discover the Panel <> Bank mode switch, please do let us know smile
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