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Live9: working with un-BPM based (Piano) jamms ?? any tips ?
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Production Techniques  
Author Live9: working with un-BPM based (Piano) jamms ?? any tips ?
Funky40
some questions in regards to workflow:

1. I want to record my Piano playing with changing speeds as part of the expression.
as common in classic music for example.

2. now my point:
I would like to generate a (Beats-) Grid based on my free played recording, so that i could add some Drums on that grid.
What is the workflow in ableton to achive that ?


tl;dr:
I just read thru some/many " working with Warpers" parts of the Manual.
But all the parts i read were written under the assumption that one wants to quantize a sample/recording to a given fixed BPM-Grid

any tipps on what i have to read in the live9 Manual ?
respectivly any short description of how i´d have to work my way up the road to get there ? ( to get a picture whitch functions i do have to use.......and going from there into reading in the manual )


finally, there might be two goals:
_every now and then do i need to have a "1" in the grid that matches perfectly
_having a (Drum) grid ready that allows for step sequenzing with push ........quantising push to my unquantised Music lol

disclaimer: never worked anything with Warp Markers, BPM settings or any other kind of markers in Live.
anyway never donne anything in the arrangement view in Live
smithknows
Hello.
Well. I have bad news for you. Ableton can't do what you want it to.
Ableton is very grid based. It doesn't do well with things that have a movi tempo.
In Pro tools (and other daws) you can create a tempo map that makes an expanding and contracting grid that moves with how you play.
Funky40
ahhh, Aha !.........well, smith knows wink lol

i was on cubase some 12 Years back.......and a little on Live4.
I thought i´ve seen such functionality. Was Cubase then wink

much thanks smith thumbs up
francoprussian
You can make live tempo follow a rubato piece, but only if the clip is audio, not midi.

You need to set the audio clip to be the 'master' rather than 'slave', this is done in the clip settings box on the left of the edit view. Then, you need to add warp markers to the clip and drag the first beat of each bar to the 1 of the grid. Or go even further and add all 1/4 notes as warp markers and drag them to the 1, 2, 3, 4 on the grid. Then everything else will follow the changing tempo of your piano playing. Hope this makes sense.

It's a bit of a fiddle, and a lot of clicking and dragging, but it works and i know, having run into exactly this problem myself before...

The manual chapter regarding this feature is here:


https://www.ableton.com/en/manual/audio-clips-tempo-and-warping/#tempo -master-slave
Funky40
ohh Wow, thank you very much franco !


so Live9 can do everything for me but cook wink


This is fun!
smithknows
Well shit! I stand corrected. Sorry for the misinformation above.
Ableton rules.
Funky40
hmm, i do not arrive !
took me some time to get ready to dive into this.
.......i went thru many chapters of the manual and had some first goes with warp markers.
Made a test recording in the arrangement view. I´ve added warp-markers accordingly
also made a metronom like simple drumbeat to be played in sync......

the clip is set to: master


francoprussian wrote:
Then, you need to add warp markers to the clip and drag the first beat of each bar to the 1 of the grid.

i added warp markers to my test recording.
but when i draw the markers to the first measure of the beat does the playback change and not the grid.

........i don´t see what i miss.
the manual seems unclear to me after reading it concentrated.
is seems to refer to "sync to a clip" ......but IMO in the whole ( start marker end marker, sync to that clips original tempo )
everything beyond that is beyond my understanding.


i can´t see a way to get a rubber band kind of a grid.
the grid itself stays allways linear..........also optically.

@francoprussian, your explanation absolutely sounded as you knew what about you where speaking: >> following a rubato kind of piece<<
oh well, you even stated that you´ve donne it...
what could be my stumbling blocks ?
( must admit, i still find the audio part editor, warp makers etc. totally cumbersome to work with........i´m totally not at home there )
cheeseandbiscuits
Hi,

Something you might find helpful (which i find really helpful when i am trying to layer drums with live played bass for example)

Play your piano, go into your audio clip, hit "extract groove"..

Then find your groove in the groove pool and drag it onto a midi track... This should give you a midi note for each transient.. Then you can use those notes to control events that'll be timed to your piano.
Funky40
cheeseandbiscuits wrote:

Play your piano, go into your audio clip, hit "extract groove"..

that same thought occured to me the other day and i wondered if it could work ? not tryed / never worked anything with Groovetemplates so far
thanks cheese for that heads up !
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