Announcing ALM017 - Pamela's NEW Workout

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ALM
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Post by ALM » Tue May 09, 2017 4:09 pm

c0nsumer wrote:
Not trying to be too critical here, and I'm considering buying a PNW myself soon, but one decimal place seems like a reasonable thing. I have to admit that, on its face, this disparity does give me a bit of pause... Especially as I'll be using it with a BSP and it'd irk me if one device said one BPM and another said nearly another.
I measured this kind of accuracy during development but in doing this also measured alot of (slight) variation in representation of bpm in external gear.

I'll add investigating finer clock calibration to the TODO but Id still be prepared to be irked if you sync multiple bpm displaying devices.

As long as its sonically in sync and sounds good thats what really matters right ?

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Zymos
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Post by Zymos » Tue May 09, 2017 4:36 pm

Ive had all kinds of gear synced with each other, and a tempo display that does NOT vary by a fraction of a BPM is more the exception than the rule.
Doesn't mean the BPM is not steady, just that what is displayed may be slightly vague. If I let things run for 20 minutes and can't hear the tempos drifting, I'm not going to pay attention to the display.

But, if you have some way to measure exactly, and one thing shows a steady 120 BPM yet something clocked by it shows a steady 120.1 BPM, that's something else. Though how much it matters is the real issue...

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Post by Jezzameister » Tue May 09, 2017 5:43 pm

The problem is, if somebody asks me to create a drum loop for a track thats at 120bpm and I do it with Pams and its actually 120.27bpm. When I send them the loop, it will be out of sync with their track which is running at 120bpm. In other words I need it to be more accurate than a quarter of a bpm out.

I can create tempo related loops on the Korg Volcas, Prophet 6, Microkorg and Mutable Yarns and drop them into a logic or pro tools session running at 120bpm and they are all in sync. But when I try the same thing with Pams its not in sync because its not running at exactly 120bpm.

Other people send me tempo related stems created on all kinds of different gear and they always run in sync in my sessions. I don't have to vary the decimal place to make them in sync.

I hope that makes sense, I'm just trying to explain the way I work and how i want to use Pams. The module is great but I just wonder if there is a way to make it even more accurate?

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Zymos
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Post by Zymos » Tue May 09, 2017 8:56 pm

OK, I hear ya- was just wondering if things were actually out of sync, or if that was only based on a tempo readout somewhere.

That's a bummer- I think the way most people use the module, it's not an issue, but I don't think you are wrong for wanting it to work in your situation too.

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ALM
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Post by ALM » Wed May 10, 2017 4:11 am

OK I will investigate and try for better/more control over the calibration in a future update.

In the meantime if you need a very specific BPM and even after calibrating Pam you still don't get what you want either;

- Slave Pam to external clock which gives you what you want. Ignore any subtle difference in displayed BPMs. If it sounds in sync it is.

- Learn/use your DAW's tools to make minor tempo adjustments to, or sync to, audio imports.

- Just don't worry about, instead just make music & enjoy :hyper:

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Krater
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Post by Krater » Wed May 10, 2017 4:28 am

Awaiting the delivery of my new Pam today :hyper: but will keep the old one though. What is the best way to sync the two?

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Post by ugokcen » Wed May 10, 2017 4:34 am

Jezzameister has a fair point, though I don't work in that way. But i might in the future so it would be nice to see this addressed.

- Slave Pam to external clock which gives you what you want. Ignore any subtle difference in displayed BPMs. If it sounds in sync it is.
I can confirm that this method does work perfectly.

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ALM
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Post by ALM » Wed May 10, 2017 4:49 am

Krater wrote:Awaiting the delivery of my new Pam today :hyper: but will keep the old one though. What is the best way to sync the two?
Using either Pam as master - One output at x24 into slaved pam clock input. Another output set to 'constant on' into slaved pam run input.

Ideally use new Pam as master + 2hp Pam Exp-2 expander - then use x24 & run outputs of the expander into old pam. That way you don't lose any editable outputs.

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Post by Krater » Wed May 10, 2017 4:53 am

Thanx!

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Post by chockfullofthat » Thu May 11, 2017 8:47 am

Got mine a couple of days ago. Easier than expected menu diving. The clock was about 1.5 bpm fast out of the box but calibration got it within 0.1 bpm of the displayed value. Liking it a lot.

guestt

Post by guestt » Thu May 11, 2017 9:35 am

This is tickling my interest a lot, good work(out)!!

I must admit the BPM calibration is of some concern to me too, as rightly pointed out irrelevant in most situations, but I'd feel frustrated when in a position where I needed it to be right.

So +1 for better control over calibration from me too; if it's sorted I'm going to find it difficult to resist :))))

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Post by erstlaub » Thu May 11, 2017 10:26 am

Krater wrote:Awaiting the delivery of my new Pam today :hyper: but will keep the old one though. What is the best way to sync the two?
When I slave mine, i tend to use old Pam's as the master seeing as it *only* does gates/triggers and it makes me sad to tie up 2 channels on new Pams that could also be doing modulation things.

They always sync perfectly although the BPM displays have a discrepancy of 1 bpm between them on mine as I've not got round to doing the display calibration thing yet.

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ALM
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Post by ALM » Thu May 11, 2017 10:59 am

erstlaub wrote: When I slave mine, i tend to use old Pam's as the master seeing as it *only* does gates/triggers and it makes me sad to tie up 2 channels on new Pams that could also be doing modulation things.
Just to reiterate this is what the 2HP PEXP2 expander is really useful for.. it gives you the extra outputs specifically for the slaving another Pam (old or new). Thus you dont lose any channels (and you get a midi clock out).

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jasev
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Post by jasev » Sat May 13, 2017 8:47 am

Just got one of these can't wait to get it racked up tomorrow

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Post by AThousandDetails » Sun May 14, 2017 9:41 am

Going to get mine Monday! Anyone is using ERM Multiclock+ to sync the new Pamela? Is it more stable than the old PAM?

I had tons of issues syncing old Pam with Syncgen, A4 and even Multiclock+ which later i found a way to make it more stable with the multiclock+ and it is now flawless...

Thanks!
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Post by MossGarden » Mon May 15, 2017 4:27 am

ALM wrote:
Krater wrote:Awaiting the delivery of my new Pam today :hyper: but will keep the old one though. What is the best way to sync the two?
Using either Pam as master - One output at x24 into slaved pam clock input. Another output set to 'constant on' into slaved pam run input.

Ideally use new Pam as master + 2hp Pam Exp-2 expander - then use x24 & run outputs of the expander into old pam. That way you don't lose any editable outputs.
I was thinking of using this expander in future to sync my mother 32. Midi clock out to M32, then Run to M32's sequencer. I can't see any reason this wont work? I would then use the x24 to clock my Beatstep Pro

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Post by Tumulishroomaroom » Mon May 15, 2017 10:08 am

I clock my Mother 32 with one out of the new Pamela and I works perfectly.

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Post by behndy » Mon May 15, 2017 5:35 pm

only 5 pages in, trying to read EVERYTHING because y'all are interesting, INTERESTING buggari-boos.

but. just got in my New Pam's and had to wurmp around. so. damn. GOOD.

having a problem, sure it's my fault, but trying to use Pam's to clock a Beatstep Pro, and it was running at 1/16 of the tempo on the Pam's.

went in to the BSP software to play with the settings, at 24 PPQN (the default) it's 1/16, 48 PPQN it's i THINK at 1/32 of tempo, and at 1 Step it's at 1/4 of tempo.

which is betttttttterrrrrrrrr...... but. would love to know what i'm doing wrong.

moop?
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Post by iatroim » Mon May 15, 2017 5:52 pm

behndy wrote:only 5 pages in, trying to read EVERYTHING because y'all are interesting, INTERESTING buggari-boos.

but. just got in my New Pam's and had to wurmp around. so. damn. GOOD.

having a problem, sure it's my fault, but trying to use Pam's to clock a Beatstep Pro, and it was running at 1/16 of the tempo on the Pam's.

went in to the BSP software to play with the settings, at 24 PPQN (the default) it's 1/16, 48 PPQN it's i THINK at 1/32 of tempo, and at 1 Step it's at 1/4 of tempo.

which is betttttttterrrrrrrrr...... but. would love to know what i'm doing wrong.

moop?

̶M̶a̶k̶e̶ ̶s̶u̶r̶e̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶s̶e̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶P̶P̶Q̶N̶ ̶r̶e̶s̶o̶l̶u̶t̶i̶o̶n̶ ̶a̶s̶ ̶2̶4̶ ̶P̶P̶Q̶N̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶P̶N̶W̶ ̶a̶s̶ ̶w̶e̶l̶l̶.̶ ̶I̶'̶m̶ ̶r̶u̶n̶n̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶m̶i̶n̶e̶ ̶f̶r̶o̶m̶ ̶a̶ ̶T̶e̶m̶p̶e̶s̶t̶ ̶>̶ ̶K̶e̶y̶s̶t̶e̶p̶ ̶>̶ ̶P̶N̶W̶ ̶a̶t̶ ̶2̶4̶ ̶P̶P̶Q̶N̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶a̶t̶ ̶1̶x̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶c̶l̶o̶c̶k̶s̶ ̶p̶e̶r̶f̶e̶c̶t̶l̶y̶ ̶w̶i̶t̶h̶ ̶n̶o̶ ̶d̶r̶i̶f̶t̶.̶

Whoops I misread that. I believe the sync in on the Beatstep is also set by the PPQN defined in the Arturia control panel. I'm not sure why it wouldn't be in tempo if they're set the same.

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Post by behndy » Mon May 15, 2017 8:45 pm

jia. i left the Pam's alone, it is default setup at 24.

in the BSP software menu you can set it to 24 or 48 PPQN or 1 Step.

i'm super new to all modular stuff, so am probably missing something simple.
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Post by funqpatrol » Tue May 16, 2017 1:17 am

I've asked before but will there be a chance to get CV over preset loading? Thanks! :)

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jasev
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Post by jasev » Tue May 16, 2017 6:41 am

funqpatrol wrote:I've asked before but will there be a chance to get CV over preset loading? Thanks! :)
Be a good feature if at all possible??

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ALM
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Post by ALM » Tue May 16, 2017 7:02 am

funqpatrol wrote:I've asked before but will there be a chance to get CV over preset loading? Thanks! :)
How would you use it ? What sort of thing would you see yourself doing with it ?

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Post by dooj88 » Tue May 16, 2017 11:12 am

i noticed cracking when using the sin and triangle shapes to open/close a VCA - specifically veils. but when i A/B it with a similar shaped signal from maths, there is no crackling. i shot a video, but the maths signal was too hot and distorted the recording.. (noob boob had the attenuator too high and didn't check recording afterwords..) anyway, i'll shoot another video this evening. but here's a decent enough example of the behavior:

(i normalized the audio, so if you have to crank the volume, i made sure there are no peaks that are super loud..)

things i've tried:
-changing level of signal, still there but attenuated
-different shapes still have same behvior (envelope, sin, tri)
-trying different output channels/jacks there is no change
-had a high power load on my PSU before, but i got another yesterday, and after reducing the whole load by half that the circuit pam was on, the crackling persisted.

i noticed this when i first got it, and just decided to just not use it for VCA modulation, but now i'd like to know what's going on. another note, i haven't updated the firmware since i received it at the end of march.

any other things to try? anyone else hearing this?

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Post by cryptogreen » Tue May 16, 2017 3:17 pm

Jezzameister wrote:The problem is, if somebody asks me to create a drum loop for a track thats at 120bpm and I do it with Pams and its actually 120.27bpm. When I send them the loop, it will be out of sync with their track which is running at 120bpm. In other words I need it to be more accurate than a quarter of a bpm out.

I can create tempo related loops on the Korg Volcas, Prophet 6, Microkorg and Mutable Yarns and drop them into a logic or pro tools session running at 120bpm and they are all in sync. But when I try the same thing with Pams its not in sync because its not running at exactly 120bpm.

Other people send me tempo related stems created on all kinds of different gear and they always run in sync in my sessions. I don't have to vary the decimal place to make them in sync.

I hope that makes sense, I'm just trying to explain the way I work and how i want to use Pams. The module is great but I just wonder if there is a way to make it even more accurate?
I honestly thought that was what I was paying for when I bought PNWO, especially when I read phrases like "Improvements have been made to overall clock stability," and "BPM based clock with tempo rates 10-300BPM." The natural conclusion was that PNWO would sync to the grid when the DAW and PNWO display the same rate.

I love the workflow the module provides more than I thought I would, but the honeymoon ended abruptly when I realized what you see is not what you get with PAM.

So PLEASE, if it is possible, quantize pam so she can play along with my ipad or whatever without being made a slave.

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