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Does any Offset / Attenuator module have 2 HP size ?
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next [all]
Author Does any Offset / Attenuator module have 2 HP size ?
Paranormal Patroler
I find myself in a position where I need a simple module that can offset and attenuate a signal. But I need one at 2hp and I only find passive attenuators at that size, nothing else. It needs to be an offset at least (obviously not looking for a passive module here) and I don't have much need for attenuversion but I'd take that if it works.

Any suggestions? I've searched high and low and I can't find anything. I know there's a 2HP module coming out but I need one now, so if there's already something like that out there please let me know.


PP
geecen
That seems to small to me.
Paranormal Patroler
geecen wrote:
That seems to small to me.


You can get 16 step sequencers in 2HP. I highly doubt it's too small but if an experienced designer disagrees I'm all ears.
euromorcego
well, there are several dual ones in 4hp if that is any help (same hp). And there are some mixer, if you have a contant voltage source, you could also hack an offset.

I also do not think that 2 hp is "too small". You might even fit a dual attenuverter/offset into 2 hp. Zlob has a through-hole diy clock divider in 2hp, an attenuverter/offset is a rather simple circuit, so no problem. Whether it is ergonomic is another question, of course.
flashheart
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
geecen wrote:
That seems to small to me.


You can get 16 step sequencers in 2HP. I highly doubt it's too small but if an experienced designer disagrees I'm all ears.

Sure, but a 16 step sequencer is a digital module, the 16 steps isn't really relevant. Being digital it could be a 1024 step sequencer in that space smile
This issue is around ergonomics as much as anything.

There are some 2HP mixers, if you can get a fixed voltage source from somewhere and feed that to one of the inputs that'll do the trick.
Paranormal Patroler
Thank you for the suggestions so far!

I need a very specific functionality. An Offset at 2HP. I don't have space for any other modules, no 4HP, nothing. I'd have used my MIAs or a CVP if I had more space but I don't.

An offset/attenuator module is a set-and-forget module, I don't see how having a small knob in a 2HP space is an issue. The circuit must be dead easy to make (I agree with euromorcego that you could probably do a double one in 2HP). Honestly I don't see what the problem is, you set the attenuation, you set the offset, you're done. The small knobs might even be a better option as they reduce the chance of accidentally changing the values.
mskala
Even if you could fit a small knob in 2HP - which is pushing it - there needs to be a potentiometer behind the panel, and there are not many of those that can fit in 2HP. Maybe it could be done digitally, with pushbuttons instead of a rotating knob.
euromorcego
mskala wrote:
Even if you could fit a small knob in 2HP - which is pushing it - there needs to be a potentiometer behind the panel, and there are not many of those that can fit in 2HP. Maybe it could be done digitally, with pushbuttons instead of a rotating knob.

there are dozens of 2 hp modules that fit a (conventional) potentiometer (typically the one without knob: https://www.thonk.co.uk/shop/ttpots/). It is tight but certainly possible. Some of these are even DIY through-hole, like this one: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/zlob-mineq no problem. You can probably fit a slider in 2hp. That would actually be quite nice.
mskala
euromorcego wrote:
mskala wrote:
Even if you could fit a small knob in 2HP - which is pushing it - there needs to be a potentiometer behind the panel, and there are not many of those that can fit in 2HP. Maybe it could be done digitally, with pushbuttons instead of a rotating knob.

there are dozens of 2 hp modules that fit a (conventional) potentiometer (typically the one without knob: https://www.thonk.co.uk/shop/ttpots/). It is tight but certainly possible. Some of these are even DIY through-hole, like this one: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/zlob-mineq no problem. You can probably fit a slider in 2hp. That would actually be quite nice.


That pot won't fit in 2HP. From the mechanical drawing on that page, the pot is 11.4mm across the retention tabs, and the board for it needs to be wider still to provide holes for the tabs to fit into. Note the recommended hole layout is dimensioned as 10.6mm across and doesn't include the necessary board width on either side. 2HP is only 10.16mm. Okay, so mount the pot sideways... but it's 12.5mm from the electrical connections to the opposite side of the body, with some more width needed again for the board that the legs fit into, so mounting it that way would be even worse. Maybe you could do it by removing the retention tabs. File down the stubs and it could be as narrow as 9.7mm, the width of the main body. But since it has no bushing, that means all the mechanical stress is going onto the electrical connections.

I'd be interested to know what kind of pots the Złob module is using.
starthief
2hp (the brand) has a 4 channel mixer in that size (4 pots and 5 jacks). And a dual O/A can be done with one less jack (though a summing output would be cool). It's not impossible, it just hasn't been done smile
Richie Witch
starthief wrote:
2hp (the brand) has a 4 channel mixer in that size (4 pots and 5 jacks). And a dual O/A can be done with one less jack (though a summing output would be cool). It's not impossible, it just hasn't been done smile

Is this one of those situations where the panel is 2 hp, but the electronics behind it are closer to 3 hp?

I have modules that can't be put next to each other because the boards/connectors are wider than the front panel. They have to be placed next to modules whose boards are quite a bit narrower than the front panel so that there is room for both.

For this same reason, those modules can't be put on the outside edge of the case either.

Drives me crazy.
euromorcego
mskala wrote:

That pot won't fit in 2HP. From the mechanical drawing on that page, the pot is 11.4mm across the retention tabs, and the board for it needs to be wider still to provide holes for the tabs to fit into. [...] 2HP is only 10.16mm. ....

I'd be interested to know what kind of pots the Złob module is using.

don't worry, it will fit. The pot is only 9.7mm, the tabs is flush with the sides of the pot, no need to use wide holes on both side.
The way zlob does it (as far as i can see from the build instruction): the tabs "grab" the pcb on both sides and are soldered from below on the pcb, using solder pads like for smd, not through-hole. In this way there is some mechanical stability and sufficient space to mount the pot.

i do not know the hp modules, but i doubt the pcbs are wider than 2hp so that they cannot be put next to each other. It would make little sense and people would have noticed (and reported here).
paterursus
Richie Witch wrote:
I have modules that can't be put next to each other because the boards/connectors are wider than the front panel.

That kind of thing really pisses me off. I have some modules like this. To me there's an expectation that if you say the module is 2hp, then it can fit into any 2hp slot on the case. Otherwise it's not really 2hp, is it?
starthief
Richie Witch wrote:
Is this one of those situations where the panel is 2 hp, but the electronics behind it are closer to 3 hp?


I haven't had trouble putting any of my 2hp wide modules (2hp LFO, Qu-Bit EON, Zlob Dual VCA, MengQi DPLPG) next to any other modules because of the electronics.

The LFO and EON have their screw holes on the left corner and the Dual VCA and DPLPG on the right, so my slightly oversized washers collide if I arrange them a certain way.

However, I can't put my Synthrotek DLY (which is 4hp) on the far left side of my rack because the solder traces on the board touch the rail bracket. It's not because it's got 5hp worth of electronics on a 4hp panel, it's just poorly placed. I don't know whether the one I have (bought from another wiggler) was DIY or prebuilt though.
Richie Witch
starthief wrote:
However, I can't put my Synthrotek DLY (which is 4hp) on the far left side of my rack because the solder traces on the board touch the rail bracket. It's not because it's got 5hp worth of electronics on a 4hp panel, it's just poorly placed. I don't know whether the one I have (bought from another wiggler) was DIY or prebuilt though.

Funny... cuz my worst offender is a 4hp Synthrotek Eko. The electrical connector sticks out on one side of the board, making it impossible to put it next to any module that doesn't have enough empty space to clear that connector.
Paranormal Patroler
Yeah, I have some of those types of modules myself. hihi The 2hp brand doesn't seem to be the case; let's face it, that would be stupid of them, they base their modules on the fact that they fit in a 2hp space, it would be funny if they didn't fit.

As far as knobs/potentiometers go, there's no need to debate. There are more than enough examples of 2HP modules with potentiometers. Whether you like them, whether you have sausage fingers and find that they aren't practical is another thing entirely. Feel free to discuss this as well if you will!

Personally I'm amazed that there isn't an option already available. I do mind waiting until 2hp make this a reality, but that's all I can do it seems. I'm willing to bet they'll sell a lot of these, reason being that one of the issues we have in eurorack is the differences in levels/CV requirements.

Hope they make it sooner rather than later!


PS: if anyone knows of any other options (always in 2HP) do let us know.
mskala
euromorcego wrote:
The way zlob does it (as far as i can see from the build instruction): the tabs "grab" the pcb on both sides and are soldered from below on the pcb, using solder pads like for smd, not through-hole. In this way there is some mechanical stability and sufficient space to mount the pot.


How do they avoid having the pots short out against each other when two such modules are mounted side by side? Very thin Kapton tape?
euromorcego
mskala wrote:

How do they avoid having the pots short out against each other when two such modules are mounted side by side? Very thin Kapton tape?

the signal conncetion of the pots are as usual. Three holes in the middle of the pcb. They fit easily. The problem is are the tabs on the side of the pot. These are for mechanical stability (and sometimes connected to 0V/Gnd, sometimes not). So it is no problem when they touch, it is not worse than when the (metal) faceplates touch (which are also connected to 0V/Gnd).

And there are 2 hp modules that people have in their racks and they obviously work. Whether this is desirable from an ergonomic perspective is another question (and i would certainly not recommend putting 2hp modules next to each other). Personally, i also do not see any need to have complex functions, such as a full featured oscillator as a 2hp module, it seems more like a good way to fill a small gap with a useful utility module. But that's just me.
Paranormal Patroler
euromorcego wrote:
Personally, i also do not see any need to have complex functions, such as a full featured oscillator as a 2hp module, it seems more like a good way to fill a small gap with a useful utility module. But that's just me.


And what better utility than an Offset / Attenuator, right ? hihi
franman69
ZLOB 2HP??
Paranormal Patroler
franman69 wrote:
ZLOB 2HP??


No offset module that I know of in his line-up.
franman69
I was suggesting attenuators... nope, I don't think either make an offset attenuator.
propertyof
i've been looking for an offset module in 2 hp size too. did you find something Paranormal Patroler?

anyway, does "offset function" have another term?
just realized in modulargrid's module finder function drop-down menu, there's no offset function listed.
i can only find attenuator & polarizer.
DMR
There is certainly no reason why it couldn't be done. But 2HP modules are somewhat of a niche, so your options are limited until of the of the few companies that make 2HP modules release one.
Samwell Clark
Y'know what, I really want this now.

I'll see what I can do in terms of actually making this happen.
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