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drums\percussions synthesis tips and tricks?
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Production Techniques Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next [all]
Author drums\percussions synthesis tips and tricks?
hyena
hey wigglers, care to share some of yer tricks for drums\percussion homebrewin'?

i usually try to craft all my sounds on my own. now i'm doing it in eurorack mostly. aside from the usual kicks i'd like to see some good techniques for snares and everything.

i start with what i recorded today, cymbals and high hats.

i used 4 square oscillators (2 squares from hertz donut mk1 and two squares from donut mk2, both donutz with no tracking between the two vcos), mixed them with a doepfer 4 channel mixer, envelopes via maths (usually expo shape, immediate attack and various decays) controlling one vca on 4ms vca matrix.
the 4 vcos were tuned by ear to get the right amount of inharmonicity.
in some cases i used a band pass filter or an high pass filter (doepfer a-106-5 was used), sometimes clean, sometimes resonant and saturated. in some cases i mixed in some coloured noise (blue all the way up, no red) from doepfer a-118 to give it another layer.
i have to say results were beautiful. i was previously always too lazy and ended up doing cymbals\hats with highpass filtered noise and nothing else.

so, what's your recipe? in the next days i'll be exploring more about snares with vcos. some suggestions?
suboptimal
There are some great Sound on Sound articles out there on the basics of perc synthesis. Worth a google.

My cymbal technique is similar to yours, though I cheat a bit by using a Synthtech Cloud Generator instead of separate VCOs. I like to mix in some digital distortion (WMD Geiger Counter) before or after the filter, depending, to give an extra sizzle or crunchiness. The GC's vast tonal range is excellent for this.
hyena
suboptimal wrote:
There are some great Sound on Sound articles out there on the basics of perc synthesis. Worth a google.

My cymbal technique is similar to yours, though I cheat a bit by using a Synthtech Cloud Generator instead of separate VCOs. I like to mix in some digital distortion (WMD Geiger Counter) before or after the filter, depending, to give an extra sizzle or crunchiness. The GC's vast tonal range is excellent for this.


of course i know the series smile
ah, nice advice! i'll try with a-189-1 !
felixer
suboptimal wrote:
I like to mix in some distortion

this is a good trick for punchy snares as well ...
miles_macquarrie
I hope this thread stays active. Very helpful so far, thank you for posting. I'm definitely going to try hats/cymbals with the cloud generators saw output and some wavefolding as I don't have digital distortion in my rack.

This video was really helpful for me and Kicks.


I would love to hear how you guys are generating snares besides just using a noise source.

Cheers
miles_macquarrie
Another question......

Are most of you triggering these in real time most of the time or building sounds and using them as samples? It seems like creating drum sounds can easily tie up a lot of modules!
hyena
miles_macquarrie wrote:
Another question......

Are most of you triggering these in real time most of the time or building sounds and using them as samples? It seems like creating drum sounds can easily tie up a lot of modules!


both. but if i use lots of modules i am sure to sample the sound (with octatrack right now) so i can re-use it.
in a live situation i'd never patch up a cymbal with 4 vcos grin so i'd rather use my samples or do something simpler (like the mentioned filtered noise hats\cymbals)
miles_macquarrie
hyena wrote:
miles_macquarrie wrote:
Another question......

Are most of you triggering these in real time most of the time or building sounds and using them as samples? It seems like creating drum sounds can easily tie up a lot of modules!


both. but if i use lots of modules i am sure to sample the sound (with octatrack right now) so i can re-use it.
in a live situation i'd never patch up a cymbal with 4 vcos grin so i'd rather use my samples or do something simpler (like the mentioned filtered noise hats\cymbals)


I figured that was the case with sampling being the best route when creating complex drum sounds that require many modules. Thanks for your insight.
Again, I'd love to hear and/see some snare patch examples. I've had trouble creating big cracking snares.
hyena
me too!
today i did one with one output of the zorlon cannon mk2, pitch enveloped by maths, with some extra grit provided by streams (which was also doing the envelope\vca) distortion. it sounds good but not the usual snare smile
made another one with hertz donut mk2, pitch envelope by maths, amp env\vca streams, with internal fm, red (bad) tracking mode and red waveshaper. another envelope on the fm index by maths. another brutal one but not very realistic or really snarish, just a really noisy but dynamic slap in the face smile
ear ear
Look up posts by snoop.
felixer
miles_macquarrie wrote:
I don't have digital distortion in my rack.

you don't need digital distortion and certainly nothing as fancy as the geiger counter. i used to have one and it's a great module but just some simple distortion from a guitar pedal also does the job ...
also modulating a vco with noise works nicely ... you retain the tracking and can have it as subtle (or not)as you like. modulate either freq or pulse width. or both ;-)
mt3
Compressors. Distressors. Transient shapers. Outboard. Multiband.
SP-1200. MPC.
Culture Vulture. VSM-3. HG-2.
hyena
mt3 wrote:
Compressors. Distressors. Transient shapers. Outboard. Multiband.
SP-1200. MPC.
Culture Vulture. VSM-3. HG-2.


all that is really nice but i'd like to focus on synthesis here.
how to craft drum\percussion sounds the most effective way in a small system (even non-modular) It's peanut butter jelly time! nanners It's peanut butter jelly time!
mt3
Ha. Actually I've been entertaining the idea of synthesizing outboard via modular.

SP-1200 - 13 bit sampler
compressors - non-linear envelopes (wavetable?) layered atop each other
even/odd harmonics - wave multiplier/subharmonics generator
mt3
Snare crack
A minimum of 2 layers: impact + body.
Use fast glitchy loud envelope (DA mk1 is great). Body is like hats (but longer decay/release) and kick lightly added.
The harmonic content I think is key here.

I dislike synthesized "snares", so grain of salt...
mt3
mt3 wrote:
Snare crack
A minimum of 2 layers: impact + body.
Use fast glitchy loud envelope (DA mk1 is great). Body is like hats (but longer decay/release) and kick lightly added.
The harmonic content I think is key here. Verbos Harmonic Oscillator would be great for experimenting in general.

I dislike synthesized "snares", so grain of salt...
mt3
Oh, Plague Bearer is magic for adding snares texture to a tom-like sound.
felixer
hyena wrote:
mt3 wrote:
Compressors. Distressors. Transient shapers. Outboard. Multiband.
SP-1200. MPC.
Culture Vulture. VSM-3. HG-2.


all that is really nice but i'd like to focus on synthesis here.
how to craft drum\percussion sounds the most effective way in a small system (even non-modular) It's peanut butter jelly time! nanners It's peanut butter jelly time!

yeah, for a long time i thought that you should make the sound in the synth, but remember that even a normal drumkit gets processed heavily nowadays. that is why it sounds the way it does ... so don't be limited to your modules!
some compression and distortion go a long way. and you can get all that in modules too, if you insist cool
suboptimal
mt3 wrote:
Compressors. Distressors. Transient shapers. Outboard. Multiband.
SP-1200. MPC.
Culture Vulture. VSM-3. HG-2.


Sounds like an expensive snare. hihi
astrodislocate
miles_macquarrie wrote:
Another question......

Are most of you triggering these in real time most of the time or building sounds and using them as samples? It seems like creating drum sounds can easily tie up a lot of modules!

I don't make music exclusively on modular (In fact not on modular at al yet sad banana) so maybe my input is kinda useless, but 99% of the time I use them as samples. Changing a drum's timbre isn't something I do a lot and if you're not doing that, I don't really see the point of real time, unless you're using a drum machine. seriously, i just don't get it
hyena
mt3 wrote:
Ha. Actually I've been entertaining the idea of synthesizing outboard via modular.

SP-1200 - 13 bit sampler
compressors - non-linear envelopes (wavetable?) layered atop each other
even/odd harmonics - wave multiplier/subharmonics generator


smile nice!
hyena
mt3 wrote:
Oh, Plague Bearer is magic for adding snares texture to a tom-like sound.


i'm about to get one second hand. good to know!
mt3
I take back everything I said.
Just use a triggered sample of a snare. Synthesized snare is one of the hardest, frustrating, time-consuming, use-all-your-modules consuming, etc. endeavors. Especially so if you are fickle and a cork-sniffer when it comes to snare sounds like I am.
Dead Banana
mt3
I recall getting acceptable "snare" tones by running Mysteron through Plague Bearer.
miles_macquarrie
There are some great responses and tips here. Thanks you all for sharing. If and when I come up with something useful, I'll contribute what I've learned.

Cheers
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