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Arp2600 clones - what we want TTSH-Behringer-jhulks replica
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Music Tech DIY Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 [all]
Author Arp2600 clones - what we want TTSH-Behringer-jhulks replica
Wissenschaftsmannen
I'm also interested. I will send a PM and hope to join the FB group. screaming goo yo
Dragonslair
I would be interested in Jhulk's version, but since I would not go on Facebook if you paid me, I guess I am SOL.
numan7
aquatarkus wrote:
I will announce on this thread when the crowd funding starts for this. After that the PCBs panels, etc. will be available through various retailers that everyone knows on these forums.

...

That's our goal, to have it always available so you can purchase as you are ready. We are even trying to make high quality parts available for less than mouser pricing for people.



so i wouldn't say anyone interesteid in the Jhulk version is SOL.

as for myself, both the Jhulk 1:1 clone and TTSH projects interest me. i'd like to know what ttsh improvements have been made for v4.

i'm also interested in checking out whatever behringer comes up with if they actually end up releasing anything (and could see owning both diy and behringer versions, with the behringer as the one that gets taken out for live performance, assuming it is relatively inexpensive, reasonably road-worthy and the sound isn't too far off - all of which remains to be seen).


cheers
synthcube
agreed-- we'll be stocking and carrying it + other JM Logan projects so will always try to update forum threads along the way
smitty.west
does anyone know if the jhulk 2600's are still happening? also saw something regarding jp-4's...
LED-man
smitty.west wrote:
does anyone know if the jhulk 2600's are still happening? also saw something regarding jp-4's...


i´m still in contact with Jamie Logan (jhulk)
He´s still working on many projects including a 2600 project/clone etc.
He/we don´t share details until he can deliver or everything is tested and works.
more here:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1867311310158159/?fref=nf
smitty.west
LED-man wrote:
smitty.west wrote:
does anyone know if the jhulk 2600's are still happening? also saw something regarding jp-4's...


i´m still in contact with Jamie Logan (jhulk)
He´s still working on many projects including a 2600 project/clone etc.
He/we don´t share details until he can deliver or everything is tested and works.
more here:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1867311310158159/?fref=nf


aw, bummer... unfortunately haven't had fb in years. will there be any updates on here at any point (i.e. when it's closer to release)? i understand someone made it annoying to stay here, but hope you guys see all the love everyone else has for this project. personally, this is the 2600 i've been waiting for, just based off his older posts in another thread, which really showed how obsessive he is about that favoured old circuit.
LED-man
I share here news too when it’s public.

Here’s a picture of our project (VDD, Seyfullah, Patrick)
It’s a 2600 inspired device like the ttsh but with improved mixer, Symmetric output stage, onboard sync, Gatebooster etc.


It’s the first prototype.
Reality Checkpoint
^^^

Oh my!

I might have to bring my soldering iron out of retirement!
mayyammay
I am super interested in this project! Any updates?
loki
Follow Logan Soloman on Facebook. The are pictures of the PC boards and a board kit on sale for alpha testers.
Jaytee
loki wrote:
Follow Logan Soloman on Facebook. The are pictures of the PC boards and a board kit on sale for alpha testers.


I don't think the STP2600 is theirs. They're doing a full size replica of the 2600, whereas the STP2600 is LED-man's version of the TTSH.
Broadwave
I'm glad to see that a full size project is on the cards.

I built my own a few years back and it was a huge undertaking, but I never got round to developing a kit version.

I added a few upgrades though - 3 Full VCOs with sync, and an extra LFO (ARP Odyssey) via the S&H clock (the output is on a stereo socket for sine and square).

The Keyboard is a 3620 Clone with a built in simple PIC based Step Sequencer.

LED-man
Just follow Jammie Logan and Jim Soloman.
Jammie was here in last years active with the nick: „Jhulk“
https://m.facebook.com/groups/1867311310158159?ref=bookmarks







aquatarkus
Here are a few more pictures:

I put a pen next to the panel pcb and panel to give a size reference. The panel is 11 inches and 3mm thick so it won't bend. When stacked on top of each other the whole thing is roughly 22 inches high, slightly smaller than the original. We have a case for it in CAD at the moment.

We have room for a few more Alpha builders right now. Alpha because we may change a few resistor values, etc.

But everything will fit first time around since we are doing it all in CAD, the PCBs to the Panel and the Panels to the Case.





[/img]
KSS
Jim, Thank you for the photos and confirmation of size. Think you have it backwards? The larger of the two original grey and orange black tolex cases is 18=7/8 high with a 1/2" rear foot. Making it under twenty inches. The earlier case is 1/2" shorter still due to the 15 instead of 15-1/2" panel.

Your 22 will be larger rather than smaller.

Some nice additions to the inputs and outputs too.

A couple questions. When you ask that alphas commit to follow through to the end, do we have a total project cost yet? Just what are we committing to?

Timeframe to completion of the full offering?, with the understanding that things happen unforseen, and delays are part and parcel of development. But give us a WAG at least?

What is the meaning behind the diode looking lines on some of the VCO resistors? Thought it might be milspec, but when compared to the original ARP 4027-1's here, there's no rhyme or reason as they don't match up with any of my originals.

Also wondering about the build on the back for better serviceability that was mentioned on the video and before your site went dark. The photos here show the pins in the same position as the originals, which means they will be parts down unless you changed the main panel to be backwards? Or was the back side mounting for the main panel only?

Did I understand correctly that no schematics will be included with this project?

It's smart to have alphas follow a certain BOM, but schematics are always helpful if you're looking for intelligent feedback.

Finally, why 11 inches? Seems strange to be just over 6U. I did see your universal case concept, but cant think of any combo that needs 11 inches when combining formats. Even polyfusion is 6U. Confused.

Looking forward to what you have in store and glad to see you on the other side of the darkness.

Remembered on more thing. What's the deal about mfr who will not be mentioned? Is this some kind of legal concern?
ultravox
I own four TTSH's so I probably don't need another 2600 clone, but I'm still following this with interest.

In any case, I applaud you guys for your dedication and forward thinking on this project. I'm wishing you much success and who knows, maybe I'll end up with five 2600's!

Cheers and good luck! thumbs up
aquatarkus
Quote:
Jim, Thank you for the photos and confirmation of size. Think you have it backwards? The larger of the two original grey and orange black tolex cases is 18=7/8 high with a 1/2" rear foot. Making it under twenty inches. The earlier case is 1/2" shorter still due to the 15 instead of 15-1/2" panel.

Your 22 will be larger rather than smaller.


Jammie has a machine that he based this off of. Ours is smaller than the one at his house. Don't have a good answer for the difference!!

Quote:
Some nice additions to the inputs and outputs too.


Thanks we put a lot of thought into this. You can achieve the sound of the original or take it further.

Quote:
A couple questions. When you ask that alphas commit to follow through to the end, do we have a total project cost yet? Just what are we committing to?


Not sure on the exact cost. If I had to throw a number, I'm thinkin' $2500 to 3K depending on parts chosen. But with ours you get way more than the TTSH - two VCAs, two envelopes, all filters - including filters based on oddy. Final cost will depend on parts you use. We have called for all Takman resistors, 1% LCR polystyrenes, etc. But you don't necessarily have to use those. Jammie and I are also using .1% metal film for CV control with ultra low noise / non magnetic resistors then it will be cheaper. It won't have the quality or sound of ours.



Quote:
Timeframe to completion of the full offering?, with the understanding that things happen unforseen, and delays are part and parcel of development. But give us a WAG at least?


Timeframe - As soon as we finalize the panels we will order panel PCBs and panels. The only delay will be the audio sliders. We have to do a group buy for those. Depending on what resistors you use there may be a delay. We can do a group buy on them though.

Quote:
What is the meaning behind the diode looking lines on some of the VCO resistors? Thought it might be milspec, but when compared to the original ARP 4027-1's here, there's no rhyme or reason as they don't match up with any of my originals.


The resistors with the line denote carbon resistors.

Quote:
Also wondering about the build on the back for better serviceability that was mentioned on the video and before your site went dark. The photos here show the pins in the same position as the originals, which means they will be parts down unless you changed the main panel to be backwards? Or was the back side mounting for the main panel only?


The footprint is flipped for our version. The panel pcb was flipped as well. IF you want to use in an original machine, then parts are face down. On ours they face up



Quote:
Did I understand correctly that no schematics will be included with this project?


Schematics are given to people who buy. We just ask that people be cool and not give them out.

Quote:
Finally, why 11 inches? Seems strange to be just over 6U. I did see your universal case concept, but cant think of any combo that needs 11 inches when combining formats. Even polyfusion is 6U. Confused.


The original PCBs in the original machine are large. So the graphic designer laid it all out for us. jammie originally had it as 6U but the designer said it was too cramped. So we expanded it so that the original size PCBs could still be used.

Quote:
Remembered on more thing. What's the deal about mfr who will not be mentioned? Is this some kind of legal concern?


Something like that. Just don't want to cause any problems. The circuits are out of patent, but the name is controlled by another company. We can say based on, but we just choose can't have it on the panel, etc. and we just choose not to say it a whole lot.

Ours is called David.
LED-man
Amazona.de article google translation,

https://www.amazona.de/alle-arp-2600-projekte-korg-behringer-david-stp 2600-ttsh/

About me
Most people know me worldwide from the SDIY area (Synthesizer Do it yourself) under the name "LED-man" or "DSL-man" from various projects such as the TTSH, Syncussion or the 5U Modularsynthesizer area and LED Conversion of discos / clubs and VIP party buses.

word of editorial office

Although the ARP 2600 is one of the most sought-after synthesizers - and unfortunately the rarest and most expensive one on the second-hand market - KORG has not dared to revive the classic yet, as it did for the first time with the Korg ARP Odyssey was presented in January 2015. Again and again we have reported about DIY projects around the topic ARP 2600. The last time in July 2018. But the more we reported, the more confusing the situation was for those interested.

So we needed an insider. Someone who was able to explain the relationship between ARP 2600, TTSH and STP 2600 comprehensively. In "DSL Man" we have found such an insider who keeps us up to date from now on. So here is everything worth knowing about the future of the ARP 2600 world.

And who thinks that one would come in the future only as a DIY professional to an ARP 2600 clone, who will be particularly pleased about the last paragraph.

Lets tweak,
Your Tyrell

The ARP 2600 and its children

Actually, the article should be ready several weeks ago, but nothing is more stable than changes around this topic ARP 2600.

The last ARP 2600 was produced in 1980 by ARP Instruments, since then, the synthesizer market is missing a new edition. Information about the original can be found in our AMAZONA.de Blue Box article.

In today's article, we'll look at what the current situation on the ARP 2600 market is and what the future will bring in the foreseeable future.Outside my SDIY hobbies, they call me Patrick Jöricke.
For those of you who do not know me yet, I have been building synthesizers, drum machines and everything else that belongs to electronic sound generation in my spare time for 8 years.
From time to time, I'm building prototypes free of charge, writing documentation on my website and helping the developers build a DIY friendly device.
Since 2013, my focus has been on the ARP 2600 and its replicas.
I am 38 years young, live near Wolfsburg and work full-time as a team leader and IT Senior Consultant with a focus on System Analysis / Application Management.

The starting point

We are in 2013, the global DIY scene has grown and networked well.
Modern manufacturing methods and electronic components are favorable, the DIY market has gained momentum, it has gotten away from self-etched circuit boards (PCB colloquially called) and prefers in China very cheap industrially manufactured PCBs and, if necessary, components.
Has globalization brought any benefits here?
It felt like a gift to many when YouTube posted the following video featuring a homemade ARP 2600 clone name "TTSH" (Two Thousand Six Hundred).

The TTSH was offered as a pure DIY product, consisting of printed circuit board (PCB), front panel and housing, the second-hand market finished devices were offered at the price of € 2,500 to 3,500 depending on the housing, version and modifications.
The developer and also seller of the TTSH (Jon Nensen from Stockholm) had retired from the TTSH support on muffwiggler.com in 2015 and since I already knew Jon well at the time and was also allowed to build and test prototypes for him, I started everything to document about the TTSH on my website.
At this point it should be mentioned that I could never directly influence the product.
The TTSH is a very pleasant partner, it is due to its size of about 60 x 40 x 17cm still handy and white sonic convincing - he definitely has the ARP 2600 sound, but can not fully match the original ARP 2600 versions.

The presence

Since 2013 a lot has happened, about 1200 TTSH sets have been sold. There have since been changes to the TTSH, bugs have been fixed, new bugs have been added, the current version is called rev.3 and includes a replaceable filter card (4012 Moog Ladder and 4072 ARP Ladder version).
The TTSH version can not be seen externally on the device, all 3 versions are good if the device was built by an experienced solderer. The last TTSH KIT sale was in the summer of 2017, Jon.N had a sell-off, it should be the end.

Is there a turnaround?

Now we are in 2018 and there is still no ARP 2600, neither as many hoped by Korg, nor by Behringer. The TTSH kits have not been available for a year, the second-hand market rarely has a TTSH, and the original ARP 2600 range from $ 7,000 to $ 12,000.

The SDIY market is not asleep and there are now many SDIY shops with the business principle to provide the DIY people with a lot around the topic of synthesizer DIY.
The current planning of Jon.N (the TTSH developer) and Synthcube.com (SDIY shop in the USA) looks promising, too, because it is to be offered at the end of the year again the TTSH as a DIY version in version 4. (Bugfix Version, there will be no significant new features added).

Wait a minute, if that was already the case, one or two readers of the article will now think. Not at all.

The STP2600 a possible alternative

In 2016, a young student named Seyfullah.G came to me asking for a free TTSH DIY kit, but I could not fulfill his wish.
However, this developed in 2017 more, because the TTSH was (actually) officially discontinued.
Seyfullah asked me for advice and help in building his own and exclusively for him designated ARP 2600 replica, said - done.
As a basic concept, the TTSH initially worked, but also grew very quickly the desire for a "few" changes: smaller design, pots instead of faders, VCO-SYNC, the absence of speakers, gate booster, all 4 waveforms on VCO 1 and 3 instead of only VCO2.
My best friend Dr. Dipl. Ing. Timo VDD provided us with a digital reverb and a much improved low-noise output mixer with balanced outputs.
which in fact made the STP2600 significantly less noise than the TTSH.
The project name STP2600 was chosen from the first letters of each of us three, Seyfullah, Timo, Patrick.
Thus, the first prototype was built by me, but came for cost reasons, the idea to develop the device commercially and market, since in the meantime, many DIY friends had reported to us.
It was planned to offer the STP2600 as a DIY kit through my shop, but I had to close my shop for urgent family reasons.
That's why Seyfullah turned to Modular Addict - a large DIY shop in the United States, to have it troubleshoot the device further.
(However, Dr. Timo VDD and I were not informed about a "sale / license sale" of the project to Modular Addict, even though we had developed the device together and I took over all the costs so far alone.
The circuit boards were ordered according to latest information in mid-October, so should in the next few weeks by Modular Addict start a sale of a DIY version.
Further information about the price and exact delivery dates are currently not available.

David and Goliath

The best is known to finish?
Parallel to the STP2600, I developed my own modules for the 5U modular area, supporting me with ARP specific questions Jamie Logan from the UK, also known as Jammie Logan, sometime his first name was misspelled on the internet and it stayed with Jammie.
Jamie owns the company "Logan Soloman, LLC" with James Soloman (USA).
Both have been working on various products for 2 years, including ARP-inspired products.
DAVID is their first project and stands for a system consisting of individual modules, so to speak a modular system, but primarily inspired by the ARP 2600.
The difference to all previous replicas and to the original is that DAVID was developed NOT exclusively on the basis of the circuit diagrams available on the internet, but also on unpublished blueprints (circuit diagrams and PCB design / routing).
First of all, you have to study the ARP Instruments company history and its ARP 2600 product development in order to understand the whole topic in depth.
In short, ARP Instruments has developed several versions of the ARP 2600, and for economic reasons, did not use the first planned components and schematics.
There are various errors in all ARP 2600 versions, but these do not contribute to the positive sound character.
The first ARP 2600 versions from 1971 are based on circuits other than the ARP 2600 from 1974 and 1980 (using the example of the VCO, which has been changed several times: 4011/4017/4027 / 4027-1).

The modules in DAVID each consist of an aluminum front panel, a large PCB (Control PCB) and a small plugged PCB (potted Module) as in the original. These small "potted" modules can also be used as a replacement for the original ARP 2600.
It will exclude very high quality components used, eg. B. Switchcraft sockets and non-magnetic resistors (eg Takman), the quality is very high.
Even in the topic of components there are discussions in almost all forums, whether SMD or THT design affects the sound, in this specific case, I can answer the question: There is no compromise, because either one wants on original ARP 2600 sound remain and take the old THT design or one takes SMD and does not get all components in this format and has to adjust the circuit, which leads to sound deviations, furthermore, the Johnson effect / heat noise in SMD should not be underestimated.
More about the technology here now, I can describe that in a separate DIY article for you again.

DAVID's modules are about 11 inches (279 mm) high, the VCO is 3.5 inches wide, and 3.5 mm jack sockets are used.
It was decided to use this format to get the total original size and to size the PCBs properly.
However, there are improvements in the control PCBs such as

Oscillator sync to all modes.
Additional CV inputs
Resonance CV
Overdrive at the VCF
Inverted outputs
and extra CV at the VCA.
Additional there will be new modules like reverb, joystick, phaser, chorus, waveshaper, loudspeaker modules.
At the moment, Alpha Product Status PCB sets are under construction with about 10 accomplished DIY people. In December there will be a Kickstarter Campaign for finished modules as well as purchase options consisting of complete sets corresponding to an ARP 2600.
This change is new, as planned was the sale of DIY versions and finished versions, the support effort for a DIY version is not to afford the large amount of modules.
For original ARP 2600, however, the "potted modules" are offered for repair purposes.
Later, finished modules will also be available through their own shop.
Also available are ready-made ARP 2500-inspired modules as well as a polyphonic modular version called "GOLIATH".
And to all DIY enthusiasts: There are even more Alpha DIY sets available.

Further at 2600 ajar devices

I would also like to mention the MS2600NG project, which unfortunately has only been made available to a small DIY group (limited edition).
Furthermore, there is another TTSH inspired replica "Antonus 2600", this is a finished device, the size and technique is primarily a TTSH.
CMS had already announced several new ARP-inspired products on several occasions, but I have not seen or found anyone with a device yet.
I explicitly do not mention Eurorack modules or Eurorack "Voices", since there are no manufacturers of a whole ARP 2600 series yet or they are really worth mentioning.

What are the big guys doing?

In fact, not all ARP 2600 projects were. Korg owns a Korg ARP 2600 replica, but has not released it yet, according to a trusting source.
Behringer will not launch a Behringer ARP 2600 replica before 2020 (this information was provided to me through a contact by Mr Behringer).
But how does one know as a non-technician what is delivered there?
If you know the history and the technique of the ARP 2600 mentioned in the DAVID and you look at the KORG ODYSSEY or compare it with the ARP original, I have strong doubts that Korg can deliver a very good ARP 2600.
In this context, there are very few ARP specialists around the world that can be used, making it all the more difficult.
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