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Introducing the SDS Digital RIT_M RhythmSequencer
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next [all]
Author Introducing the SDS Digital RIT_M RhythmSequencer
Paranormal Patroler
There's no thread on this one but I want to discuss this even at this early stage. Sandrine comes up with some cool concepts!
The module was 3HP but now has transformed to 4HP with some added options. Read the thread and you'll be up to speed in no time. I'll be editing this post to follow suit with all the changes that might come along.

Here's the MG link.



Quote:
This 3HP'er let's you tap in a rhythm, creates a clock and T/G plus an on-the-fly programmable CV Sequence

As this is a brand new sequencer prototype, I'll try to keep the description short as things will likely change a lot. There are several Modes in this module, but I'll discuss the primary here.

Clocking:
The RITM has two variable touchpads, on to tap in a rhythm, and the other to define the loop point. A clock is derived based on this rhythm, loop size, and settable BPM range(i.e. 60 to 120BPM or 90-180BPM). The resulting clock is panel adjustable from 1 PPQN to 96 PPQN. The "Magic" Clock jack is bi-directional so the RITM can be the source clock, or be clocked by an external source.

T/G Output:
The trigger/Gate output is precisely the beat you entered by tapping the RHYTHM pad. The duration of each tap will also be output as more of a gate but slightly exaggerated. Similar to velocity sensitivity.

CV Output:
The CV output's default function is to output the CV knob position at the time of recording. This allows real-time control of a VCO, filter element, VCA etc. Moving the CV knob during a sequence playing will momentarily "take over" the CV jack, and any tap on the Rhythm pad will update the nearest "beat" with the new CV. This is especially useful if controlling a VCO. There is also a quantizing option.

Points:
    - A loop can be up to minutes long
    - CV's in sequence can be changed on cue
    - Beats can be added/ removed
    - Doubles as a straight tap tempo, great for delays that are clocked
    - Records the CV knob smoothly without a sequence playing and can be re-triggered
    - Can output CV based on pad pressure alone or during a sequence
    - Holding both pads momentarily will arm playing sequence to stop at next loop point
    - Tapping Loop pad will re-start a stopped sequence


The whole idea of this module is to quickly add sequenced T/G/CV control of other modular elements, on-the-fly, without setup time or large HP, displays etc. I think it's a very useful tool and look forward to moving it from the grid board into the rack for demos!
mokomo
Looks very interesting.
I wonder could the cv knob be twisted while playing a pre-recorded rhythm to re-record (overwrite) voltage at those tap points? Or is that what is already described?
Paranormal Patroler
That's what the CV Set knob does.
mokomo
I'll be ordering one so. A cv in would be useful so as to use an alternative controller than the knob e.g. Sound machines lightstrip etc.
timoka
hm, this looks interesting.
is the tapped in rhythm unquantized? that would be fantastic!
and this velocity thing, is it the duration of the gate or the actual voltage that can change? i wish it is the voltage and that it would be possible to define the trigger length fixed for pinging and exciting filters...
Paranormal Patroler
timoka wrote:
hm, this looks interesting.
is the tapped in rhythm unquantized? that would be fantastic!
and this velocity thing, is it the duration of the gate or the actual voltage that can change? i wish it is the voltage and that it would be possible to define the trigger length fixed for pinging and exciting filters...


Not sure how the external clock works in conjunction with the on-board PPQN choice but at 96PPQN on the internal clock, one can say it's unquantized, right? I mean, that's a lot of of substeps.

From what I've read it seems the duration of the gate is what changes but according to the description a) there are several modes b) the module is still in design so I'm hoping some ideas mentioned in this thread will be implemented.

Looking forward to seeing how responsive this is hihi


PS: at 3HP I'm thinking it will be possible to put a nice Davies knob on the CV pot to make it more playable.
Hainbach
Too small! I don't want ants knobs on modules razz

Else, great concept! In agreement with what Timoka and ParaPa said.
timoka
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
but at 96PPQN on the internal clock, one can say it's unquantized, right? I mean, that's a lot of of substeps.


ja, that's true. another idea...but the space for it is missing, an input jack with gain boost for recording real drumming with a contact mic love !!
timoka
Hainbach wrote:
Too small! I don't want ants knobs on modules razz

Else, great concept! In agreement with what Timoka and ParaPa said.


and yes to this, 6 hp and a real knob wouldn't hurt.
Paranormal Patroler
Hey, maybe two at 6hp is the best of both worlds hihi Seriously though, I think 3hp is fine for this design. Not sure unless I try it but it does look large enough.

Quote:
ja, that's true. another idea...but the space for it is missing, an input jack with gain boost for recording real drumming with a contact mic love !!


That's a nice idea. Contact mic taped on the side of the case for easier finger drumming.
Sandrine
I just discovered (with some help hihi ) this thread.

edit- image of RIT_M as of June 2017



Since 2012 I have been using a small box I designed called the SDS Tap for performances, and although it outputs canned MIDI percussion, there can be variations and tempo control all from one piezo foot pedal.
This concept has been carried through (in a way) to the modular world to become the RIT_M.

The idea is to simply tap in a (non-quantized) rhythm and have it loop, derive a clock, and control CV voltages, thus being a sequencer.

mokomo wrote:
Looks very interesting.
I wonder could the cv knob be twisted while playing a pre-recorded rhythm to re-record (overwrite) voltage at those tap points? Or is that what is already described?


Initially the CV is programmed with the position of the knob and called on each beat, or tap, recorded as you guessed. This is great for filter control or another CV control that isn't too dependent on accuracy, although it's surprisingly easy to sequence a VCO that's quantized.

To overwrite original CV sequence elements, the CV knob can be turned while the sequence is playing and momentarily the knob CV will be output as it is moved. Tapping on the Rhythm pad will update the nearest original tap with the new CV. Any taps will be assigned the new value.
This CV "take-over" sounds intentional if done in the right place

Tapping the Rhythm pad on a previous tap (+/- 25mS) will remove it from the sequence next time it comes around. Tapping it at a point where there is no previous tap will add a point.

Holding the Rhythm pad and turning the CV at any point of play will add a slide between that point and the next.

The entire loop can be stopped by touching both of the pads. This will stop the sequence at the loop point. Tapping the Loop pad a few seconds later will re-start the same sequence. Holding the two pads for a second or two will erase the sequence.

timoka wrote:
hm, this looks interesting.
is the tapped in rhythm unquantized? that would be fantastic!
and this velocity thing, is it the duration of the gate or the actual voltage that can change? i wish it is the voltage and that it would be possible to define the trigger length fixed for pinging and exciting filters...


Yes, no quantizing on the rhythm
In mode 0 (the one I have been describing) the velocity is the gate, in mode 3 the CV outputs the velocity and the CV knob becomes an offset for velocity.

The clock:
The clock can be output or input (it's magic!) and is derived on a preset BPM range i.e. 60-120, 90-130 etc, rhythm taps (to an extent), and of course the loop time. The clock PPQN can be changed at any time and is position assisted with the LED's so it's easy to use.
If there is a clock being input to the module, then the loop point is quantized to the nearest clock. This way a sequence can be really long, or short and sweet.

timoka wrote:
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
but at 96PPQN on the internal clock, one can say it's unquantized, right? I mean, that's a lot of of substeps.


ja, that's true. another idea...but the space for it is missing, an input jack with gain boost for recording real drumming with a contact mic love !!


The Clock input could probably be used for this. On the Reflex the circuit is pretty similar (bi-directional) and it works with contact mics
Problem is, clock jack is used up until the mic is unplugged wink

Thanks everyone for your input!
Paranormal Patroler
Thanks for chiming in Sandrine. Please keep us informed on the availability and progress. hyper

I'm very interested to learn more about how well the module works with external clocking (super important in a modular context in my opinion) so I would be interested in checking demos with both small and large loops, using external clocking.

Also interested in learning more about how the PPQN option works when the module is externally clocked; does it change the available steps per clock tick? How does the looping work? Is it possible to make a larger sequence and change the looping point later on so as to introduce parts of the sequence later?

Is the sequence saved after power-down? I image a lot of people will be interested to know this.

By the way, just tested using a Davies clone on a 2HP module with similarly small pots and it works great. So I'm guessing it will be easy to add a Davies knob on the CV pot to be able to control it more easily.
Tonemod
Looking forward to adding one of these to my rig. Will there be a DIY and pre-built option?
timoka
ok great, now i'm really interested. looking forward to some demos!
Sandrine
Paranormal Patroler wrote:
Thanks for chiming in Sandrine. Please keep us informed on the availability and progress. hyper

I'm very interested to learn more about how well the module works with external clocking (super important in a modular context in my opinion) so I would be interested in checking demos with both small and large loops, using external clocking.

Also interested in learning more about how the PPQN option works when the module is externally clocked; does it change the available steps per clock tick? How does the looping work? Is it possible to make a larger sequence and change the looping point later on so as to introduce parts of the sequence later?

Is the sequence saved after power-down? I image a lot of people will be interested to know this.

By the way, just tested using a Davies clone on a 2HP module with similarly small pots and it works great. So I'm guessing it will be easy to add a Davies knob on the CV pot to be able to control it more easily.


I can always change the design/graphics up there too, to allow for a regular pot and knob. Yes I just tried a Davies clone on one too, seats well and bites in good, but won't be as pretty

Yes the PPQN setting acts on incoming clocks, so if you're running 4 PPQN and decide to shift to 8, the speed will be cut in half type of thing. I think this will need to be delayed & aligned as I have had issues while passing through 3 PPQN on the way to 4 and everything is off by 1/8 hihi

On the power-down sequence save, not yet, but it's on the todo list now, thanks!

@Tonemod Yes at this point it looks DIY-able
Sandrine
Here's the alternate design with the big CV knob.



I'm pretty excited about getting the prototype finished so must decide
R.U.Nuts
I dare to add some positive criticism to this discussion:
1. Since this could be an awesome master clock and sequencing module it deserves a more ergonomic and thus bigger panel. I'd put the two pads side by side and make them bigger and use proper pots instead of the small trimmers. I think it would be hard otherwise to hammer in a precise beat, set a tempo, loop points and adjust the CV output with the pot at the same time.
2. add input jacks that can overwrite the input from the pads and knobs so you can for example use a pedal for the trigger input and another sequencer for CV.
3. why not use a pressure sensitive pad that doubles as trigger- and CV-input? This way the CV out could be derived from how hard you hit the pad instead of twistinf a pot with your other hand at the same time.
4. add a damn reset input! Sorry for the rudeness but lately there were some sequencers released that don't have a reset input. How the hell can you make several sequencers line up with each other without this feature? And a reset input gives a lot of possibilities for creative abuse. Even better: Also add a reset output that fires a trigger each time the loop starts drom the beginning.
5. may I ask what's the benefit of a clock signal that is derived from three different data inputs? - tapped clock, set tempo division/multiplication and set loop length? Why not just use an ordinary tap-tempo circuit with clock divider/multiplier like it is implemented in many other modules?
Sorry If this looks like bashing an idea, but I wouldn't have posted such a long answer if I didn't think the basic concept is awesome.
flashheart
Agree with much of the above, but particularly the size issue. Why 3HP?

Make it 4HP - at least thst would allow you to put the TG and clock IO side by side and leave more space for the pads. This is meant to be a tactile module so give us some space to play it.

Agree with adding a reset input.
Don't want to add to much feature creep but a CV input that you could record. like the idea of proper FSR buttons too.

Great idea for a module though, often want to just tap out a rhythm while listening to a riff I've made.
Sandrine
R.U.Nuts wrote:
I dare to add some positive criticism to this discussion:
1. Since this could be an awesome master clock and sequencing module it deserves a more ergonomic and thus bigger panel. I'd put the two pads side by side and make them bigger and use proper pots instead of the small trimmers. I think it would be hard otherwise to hammer in a precise beat, set a tempo, loop points and adjust the CV output with the pot at the same time.


Wow! Finally some constructive criticism, thankyou!!

I'd thought of pads side by side, but that'd be at least 6HP which thwarts the whole "compact" idea of the module (meant for portable applications where there's no room for a gawdy sequencer, but can still sequence)
Quote:

2. add input jacks that can overwrite the input from the pads and knobs so you can for example use a pedal for the trigger input and another sequencer for CV.

Effectively "breaking out" the panel controls? Or would this be more of a CV recorder?
Quote:

3. why not use a pressure sensitive pad that doubles as trigger- and CV-input? This way the CV out could be derived from how hard you hit the pad instead of twistinf a pot with your other hand at the same time.

The pads are multiple point and do detect pressure by velocity, timing, and area without using a troublesome FSR. This is already a feature listed above. (of course!)
I can see this mode being used mostly for sequencing a filter parameter, or VCA parameter
Quote:

4. add a damn reset input! Sorry for the rudeness but lately there were some sequencers released that don't have a reset input. How the hell can you make several sequencers line up with each other without this feature? And a reset input gives a lot of possibilities for creative abuse. Even better: Also add a reset output that fires a trigger each time the loop starts from the beginning.

Due to the space restrictions, a reset I/O wasn't considered, but now (see below) this is a valid jack.
It is assumed that the RIT_M is being used as a clock master, where clocks come out along with the Rhythm gate & CV according to the PPQN/other settings or slave to a clock already in progress.
In slave mode (defined by forced low/high on clock jack) the Rhythm is aligned according to the PPQN setting and loop point which is internally quantized to the nearest clock coming in, perfectly replicating the rhythm. So the need for a reset is primarily moot.
I can certainly see a use for it though so it'll be taken into consideration based on an HP change

Quote:

5. may I ask what's the benefit of a clock signal that is derived from three different data inputs? - tapped clock, set tempo division/multiplication and set loop length? Why not just use an ordinary tap-tempo circuit with clock divider/multiplier like it is implemented in many other modules?

There's actually a 4th parameter, BPM range too hihi
It could be used as a tap tempo sure, but:
A simple tap tempo (button/pad etc) cannot derive a clock from a complex rhythm. The idea is to tap in a variable rhythm with sixteens, eighths, triplets, or swing, and derive an accurate clock simultaneously and instantly after the loop point has been established. The PPQN setting is true clocks per quarter note, while the loop length (could be 4 seconds or 4 minutes) is used in the overall calculation along with a BPM range setting (one of 3 at this point) so it's extremely simple/reliable to use

The BPM range is required to define the PPQN even though the range can be changed to correct it at the next loop point (good on you reset jack idea!)
For example:
Simply tapping in 16 evenly spaced beats with the PPQN set to 4 can yield 32 clocks, or 16 clocks.
16 1/8th notes over 2 bars @60BPM, or 16 1/4 notes over 4 bars @120BPM. If the range is set to 90 to 170 BPM, then 120 BPM will be assumed.
If the result is very close to the threshold of a range, then the actual tap/clock alignment hits count and minimum/maximum spacing of the Rhythm taps is checked to make a decision on what the clock should be.
(algorithm I created for a drum pedal and audio controlled auto-sequencing of stage lighting with pattern recognition)

So, say there's already a sequence playing and you want to add an 8 bar sequence for a filter on one of the elements being sequenced by another sequencer. Jack in the clock, turn the CV knob to "feel" the range, then start tapping out the sequence, loop on the "down beat" and you're done.

Say you need a clock for other modules. Tapping with a rhythmic sequence, perhaps to a scale quantized VCO, then looping will provide a clock for everything else in the realm to join in.

Quote:

Sorry If this looks like bashing an idea, but I wouldn't have posted such a long answer if I didn't think the basic concept is awesome.


I love constructive criticism, isn't that, after all, the point of a discussion forum? As Spock from star trek aptly put it, "You proceed from a false assumption: I have no ego to bruise." Thanks!

flashheart wrote:
Agree with much of the above, but particularly the size issue. Why 3HP?

Make it 4HP - at least thst would allow you to put the TG and clock IO side by side and leave more space for the pads. This is meant to be a tactile module so give us some space to play it.

Agree with adding a reset input.
Don't want to add to much feature creep but a CV input that you could record. like the idea of proper FSR buttons too.

Great idea for a module though, often want to just tap out a rhythm while listening to a riff I've made.

This is a very good idea. I have been trying to stay with the tiny HP size theme but 4HP is a major advantage, and yes reset is sounding like a go.

The CV input idea was considered (bi-directional CV jack) but had obvious issues with retention when switching to output. As a separate jack though (4HP) it would be back in. The CV knob would then act as an attenuvertor.

Good one you guys!! Thankyou so much, we're on the case applause
R.U.Nuts
Yes. A fairly amall module would be good I guess. So after thinking about it twice I think putting the two knobs above each other won't do any hurt, since you probably won't be hitting them at the same time all that often. 6 HP would be sufficient for even the most frantic drumming action I guess.

And cool that you consider adding areset input. I really think a lot of people regard this as a crucial feature. You could save space by omitting the CV pot and instead utilizing the pressure sensitivity of the touch plates to derive a CV output. I think this is way more intuitive than turning a pot while hammering in a beat on the touch plate.
Sandrine
So at 4HP the jacks double

CV in - offset by knob, sampled on taps
CV out
Trig/'gate out
Clock in/out - auto sensing
Reset in/out - auto sensing
*Velocity CV - pad velocity

This puts on a whole new spin
The pads themselves need to be a certain dimension so they'll be the same but centered

-edit-
Oh no, the pot must remain for control, it'd be hard to tap with exact force each time when say CVing a VCO. I think the velocity output is a huge plus
Sandrine
Not finalized by any means, here's the new 4HP RIT_M



The Reset & Clock jacks are bi-directional and the pads will light up behind (can't see it in this illustration) with your taps in full color!

The new SET button makes modes easier to select, now there's enough room for it It's peanut butter jelly time!

Parts for a proper module are on the way so I'll post videos here as soon as it's together
scottmoon
Sandrine, this is awesome. I agree 4HP gives you a little more room for the Davies knobs. I could use 2 or 3 of these next to each other for some some crazy polyrhythms. thumbs up
Sandrine
scottmoon wrote:
Sandrine, this is awesome. I agree 4HP gives you a little more room for the Davies knobs. I could use 2 or 3 of these next to each other for some some crazy polyrhythms. thumbs up

That would be really fun, to inter-link them
I may use something lower than the Davies knobs they stick out so far (hate visible nuts)
flashheart
Just noticed the changes, you've put in everything we suggested - great stuff, looking forward to it.
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