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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Dave Jones O'Tool vs. Mordax Data
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules Goto page 1, 2  Next [all]
Author Dave Jones O'Tool vs. Mordax Data
uebl
Hello fellow Wigglers,

I know, I know, it's almost like apples and oranges, but: sooner rather than later I'd like to get a Eurorack module for oscilloscope purposes (+ for tuning VCOs, if possible). In terms of non-DIY modules, I only know of

    * the Dave Jones O'Tool and
    * the more recent Mordax Data.

What do you guys say, is there anything the O'Tool can do that the Data can't, or does it anything better than the Data in your experience? (From what I understand the Data basically does everything the O'Tool does in terms of oscilloscope duties, plus CV generation etc.)

Side note: So far, the only thing I don't like about the data is it's look/faceplate - I just cannot really imagine having it in my silver-only rack confused
2disbetter
I too am curious about this. I was originally leaning towards the Mordax but then changed my mind because of the size difference. I would assume the Data has more capability, but am not sure.

2d
BaloErets
I think the only thing the O'Tool has over the DATA is size. Data has

4 channel Oscilloscope with all the features you would expect in a pro standalone Oscilloscope. Also has an X/Y mode as well.

Both single and multi FFT analysis

4 channel Tuner

4 channel Voltage monitor

Dual clock source with mult/div and offset, all of which have CV control. Receives external clock and reset, and has internal clock

Dual waveform generator with sine, tri, square and sawtooth. Both can receive 1v/Oct and each has a digital VCA which can receive CV as well. Both generators have waveform clipping and triple wavefolding which can also be addressed via CV.

Hope I didn't miss anything.
Artaos
It's pretty simple, it depends on how serious you are going to be in your use of the oscilloscope, and how deep you want the features to be. The O'Tool is pretty deep for sure and covers a lot of features, but the DATA is obviously even more feature-packed. I went with the O'Tool simply because of the form factor and the looks and because it does everything I need.

Seriously deep use / features: DATA
Small form factor, discreet design: O'Tool
MarcelP
The o'Tool is 2 channel, Mordax is 4 channel: this means the Mordax can monitor, for example: audio pre and post a filter plus the 2 CVs modulating the filter. The O'Tool can only do say one audio plus one CV. This makes the Mordax hugely more attractive and comparable in price to a similar bench top type scope. And the screen is a useful size. Dear reader - I bought the Mordax and find to to be a very useful tool.
BlueWolfSe7en
Went for the O'Tool even though I was very tempted by the Mordax. Like a lot of other folks, space in the case was at a premium.
O'Tool covers all the bases I need ATM, very happy with it & use it a lot.
Have had a look at the Mordax & it's really nice.
Guess it depends on how many ch you need vs size?
nickbaba
Maybe I'm missing something here but I noticed on the O'Tool Oscillo page the grid is marked on the vertical axis by Volts, which re-scale as you re-scale the oscillo's resolution...whereas on the Data's grid the values are unmarked, so for instance you don't know if your top grid line is 6v, 9v or 12v?
For me the marked values grid makes it much easier to work out what I'm seeing, especially if I'm trying to calibrate.
Am I supposed to know what values I'm seeing on the Data? Or is there a mode to have the volt values appear on the grid? If there is I haven't found it.
BlackMarbleFelix
otool is very small and has more features than i care about. I'm having a hard time imagining the need for something more feature packed
geremyf
Yeah I also have an O'tool+ and it just works. I went with it because it's smaller and also because Dave Jones has produced previously whereas Mordax was unknown. I think both are probably fine and essential! I have read some threads that spoke about the update rate of each of the modules, that the O'tool+ refresh rate may be a bit faster and more smooth. I haven't seen a DATA in person so I don't really know. Neither companies publish the performance specifications for the capture.

Also, the DATA consume significantly more power.

After some reading, apparently the DATA does not have an x/y mode yet hmmm.....
sinemod
I had the Otool then switch to the otool+
and now i have booth. Otool+ and the DATA

Simple answer for now with firmware V1 of DATA
I would go with the otool.
Simple elegant does it well.

DATA
Data entry button is fucking awfull as 1/2 time you press on the button it will rotate before. You will then end up somewhere else.
There is also more "jitter" in the rendered image.


The DATA has more but the over all experience is much more pleasing on the Otool+
i do not need all those feature, i bought a scope not an osc etc...
Leescan
I don't have either, but often think they look good. What in practice is most useful about having something like this in your rack?
VZvision
Leescan wrote:
I don't have either, but often think they look good. What in practice is most useful about having something like this in your rack?


I think a couple things besides just seeing the audio waveform:

1. Precise tuning of VcO's via tuner
2. Troubleshooting: if you think something is up like tuning calibration on a quantizer, stray voltage, strange behaviour, you can use the scope and/or voltmeter to track it down.
3. Monitoring audio and CV: for me, the latter is unbelievably useful. Like checking a envelope relative the gate/trig that's triggering it to visualize the timing. Especially useful with ADSR's
4. Dialling in inversion, offset on CV: can see exactly how the waveform is being attenuated/shifted/inverted.
5. General badassery cool
waveglider
I have both. I think for the express purpose of having a graphical utility that lets you 'see' what the CV is doing quickly, the O'Tool+ does everything you need in 8hp. For those who like to splurge and have enough room, then the DATA is great with its large display and 4 inputs.

Mordax has updated the firmware and fixes the knob issue, so using the encoder is way better and works like you would expect now.
propertyof
Someone should make scope module that has something like HDMI connector for laptop or projector.
MarcelP
propertyof wrote:
Someone should make scope module that has something like HDMI connector for laptop or projector.


That would be an external scope or scope module that connects to your laptop - there are lots out there...
MarcelP
waveglider wrote:
I have both. I think for the express purpose of having a graphical utility that lets you 'see' what the CV is doing quickly, the O'Tool+ does everything you need in 8hp. For those who like to splurge and have enough room, then the DATA is great with its large display and 4 inputs.

Mordax has updated the firmware and fixes the knob issue, so using the encoder is way better and works like you would expect now.


Worth repeating/confirming/emphasising: the knob issue is fixed.
propertyof
MarcelP wrote:
propertyof wrote:
Someone should make scope module that has something like HDMI connector for laptop or projector.


That would be an external scope or scope module that connects to your laptop - there are lots out there...

i meant a eurorack module like o'tool directly, is there any?
it would be useful for teaching at school but would even better as visual projection for your live performance. i really like the o'tool+ visualization.
MarcelP
I was thinking that if the display is no longer in the rack then there isn't much benefit in having the control/device in the rack either. I went through this decision making process recently and realised that for a lone wiggler the display is most useful right in ones eye-line, among the modules one is twiddling. I can certainly see the benefit of external display in educational scenarios but then one would get a higher resolution display using a computer based device - and (I think) much cheaper too...?
propertyof
right i see what you mean. just curious about a module possibility that could be a crossing between video synth & o'tool+
BaloErets
geremyf wrote:
Yeah I also have an O'tool+ and it just works. I went with it because it's smaller and also because Dave Jones has produced previously whereas Mordax was unknown. I think both are probably fine and essential! I have read some threads that spoke about the update rate of each of the modules, that the O'tool+ refresh rate may be a bit faster and more smooth. I haven't seen a DATA in person so I don't really know. Neither companies publish the performance specifications for the capture.

Also, the DATA consume significantly more power.

After some reading, apparently the DATA does not have an x/y mode yet hmmm.....


Data indeed has an X/Y scope
BaloErets
nickbaba wrote:
Maybe I'm missing something here but I noticed on the O'Tool Oscillo page the grid is marked on the vertical axis by Volts, which re-scale as you re-scale the oscillo's resolution...whereas on the Data's grid the values are unmarked, so for instance you don't know if your top grid line is 6v, 9v or 12v?
For me the marked values grid makes it much easier to work out what I'm seeing, especially if I'm trying to calibrate.
Am I supposed to know what values I'm seeing on the Data? Or is there a mode to have the volt values appear on the grid? If there is I haven't found it.


The X axis value you see on the top (1ms), and volts on the Y axis which you see next to the numbered waveforms at the bottom (5v). Based of the photo here, each square on the grid represents 1ms and 5 volts.
uebl
Wow, I'm surprised quite a number of people went with the O'Tool(+) although the Data is/was already available when they purchased it. I somewhat expected a clear "Data >> O'Tool" ranking like it's often the case on Muffwiggler with new(er) vs. old(er) modules.

Thanks for your replies so far!
BananaPlug
This was s more of personal note than a review.
I know the O'Tool in both versions. I also know Dave and heard a lot about the development and beta testing. I have no experience at all with the Data. So I won't try to compare them. But I can tell you Dave put a lot of time on the fundamentals of making measurements. The thing is solid and stable and I trust the results whether time, voltage or frequency.
Probably the deciding factor for many people will be screen size. I've come to like the 8hp layout of the O'Tool. It's tiny but bright and clear and the available space is deployed well. Most important of all I use it all the time because it fits.
nanners
BananaPlug
BananaPlug wrote:
This is more of personal note than a review.
I know the O'Tool in both versions. I also know Dave and heard a lot about the development and beta testing. I have no experience at all with the Data. So I won't try to compare them. But I can tell you Dave put a lot of time on the fundamentals of making measurements. The thing is solid and stable and I trust the results whether time, voltage or frequency.
Probably the deciding factor for many people will be screen size. I've come to like the 8hp layout of the O'Tool. It's tiny but bright and clear and the available space is deployed well. Most important of all I use it all the time because it fits.
nanners


Sorry, can't edit this thing properly on my little device sad banana
geremyf
BaloErets wrote:

Data indeed has an X/Y scope


Oh, cool. They need to update their website then!
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