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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

New modes for the E352 Cloud Terrarium
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules  
Author New modes for the E352 Cloud Terrarium
paults
New E352 modes: variable distortion when morphing (via wavefolder), can apply any wavetable to a 2-OP FM voice (not a fixed sine as in E330) and a funky noise generator with a 4-pole Moog ladder filter. Can also add a phase shift when morphing, with variable Glitch energy (lo/med/hi).

Do not know now if these, in what form, can be on the E370 (if at all). Depends on available BW of the DSP.

waveglider
Noise for sure.
uebl
Love it! nanners
taichber
Super cool!!!! thumbs up we're not worthy

When does it ship? hihi
paults
Quote:
When does it ship?


If things go as planned, mid-August.

Depends on the beta testing/bug fixing. I'll have beta units (sorry, testers all assigned) in 2 weeks. There is a 4 week beta test schedule, then production of HW begins (panels ordered, etc).

In ~ 3 weeks, you will be able to pre-order the black panel version from my website ($469 in US/$499 foreign) which includes shipping.
taichber
paults wrote:
Quote:
When does it ship?


In ~ 3 weeks, you will be able to pre-order the black panel version from my website ($469 in US/$499 foreign) which includes shipping.


Good news! Is this a direct sales channel only?
I'm in for one but would prefere the silver panel. Looks nicer beside my serge and Grayscale panels..
Any plans for the silver version?
paults
The silver is the "standard dealer channel" model. You can order one in July from your favorite dealer. They stock silver *only*.
CF3
paults wrote:
Quote:
When does it ship?


If things go as planned, mid-August.


cry hihi



pumped for this one This is fun!
Pighood
fap fap fap...
taichber
paults wrote:
The silver is the "standard dealer channel" model. You can order one in July from your favorite dealer. They stock silver *only*.


Cool thanks
listentoaheartbeat
Morphing modulator, sine carrier would be cool, with the second output carrying the modulator like on the e330. Or is it the other way round?
Brian Odey 1
Paults,

Make your mind up and be decisive about the E370, and stop upping/downing anticipation: "Maybe we'll put it in, maybe we wont, maybe we have enough processing power, maybe we don't". Either it's in or it isn't, then go and make it.
ImNotDedYet
Brian Odey 1 wrote:
Paults,

Make your mind up and be decisive about the E370, and stop upping/downing anticipation: "Maybe we'll put it in, maybe we wont, maybe we have enough processing power, maybe we don't". Either it's in or it isn't, then go and make it.


You sure seem to want to give him grief every opportunity you can. Wonder why that is?
paults
It's OK. He not an EE with 39 years of product development experience. Especially understanding of DSP algorithms.
Pighood
I'VE FALLEN OFF MY CARE-CHAIR, BRIAN eek!
VZvision
Brian Odey 1 wrote:
Paults,

Make your mind up and be decisive about the E370, and stop upping/downing anticipation: "Maybe we'll put it in, maybe we wont, maybe we have enough processing power, maybe we don't". Either it's in or it isn't, then go and make it.


You've gotta chill the fuck out dude. Every one of your posts on Muffs (ever) is either attacking the feature set of this thing or belittling the build process/design vs. E370 and how that relates to the feature set.

And also let me get this straight...you would like Paults, the brain-child of the module in question, to stop adding any more features and refinements to make it better...instead you would like him to stop adding additional value to it for its users and etch its capabilities in stone even if its possible he could make it do more and make it better for us wigglers?

Here's an idea. Go out and buy a 200MHz 32-bit ARM DSP chip, start the process of designing a module around it, and come back when you're done with some definitive answers of what your module can and cannot do. Not what you THINK it could do or not do. Every single way it will function given the topography you designed.

Oh and along the way perhaps contribute to this vast community on Muffs by telling us all something other than pissing and moaning about a feature set comparison between two modules that are not even out yet.

This forum is massive. Do you have anything else to contribute anywhere else (i.e. Perhaps post in a thread NOT about this module and post about something you actually like)? Is "to shit on this module" the only reason you signed up on Muffs? Do you have any sort of constructive experiences you would like to share about Eurorack in general or about any other module?


Paults: Looking awesome and stoked to Vader the fuck out of the 26HP gap in my system with some Clouding Terrariums, Whatever the feature set turns out to be.
paults
There are 2 schools of thinking at work here (at the 50,000ft level):

a) the 'until it's ready' school. Don't hint or mention a product until it's built, on the dealer shelves, the web page is up and ready to go!

b) the 'pre-announce' school (in my case): when you have HW that works at least 90-95%, you have SW that is at least 75%, then announce. Show render, talk about features, solicit input.

Apple is pretty famous for (a) and I'm famous for (b).

The reason I prefer (b) is this simple fact: I'M NOT BUYING ANY, YOU ARE.

Unlike Mr. Jobs, I don't think I'm God's gift to the world, and use phrases like "walled garden" or "ecosystem".

Rather, I prefer to say: this is thing a POS or what??!? And sometimes it is and sometimes it is not. Sometimes I don't change 1 tiny thing, and sometimes I reboot.

There are MANY (the majority in my world-view) people that simply cannot take criticism. The have a 'vision', and they want people to "buy in to the vision" and "execute the plan". Pffftttt.....I want to build things people want. Not what I THINK they want.
jschussler
Quote:
There are MANY (the majority in my world-view) people that simply cannot take criticism. The have a 'vision', and they want people to "buy in to the vision" and "execute the plan". Pffftttt.....I want to build things people want. Not what I THINK they want.


I applaud your responsiveness to input, and don't want to discourage it at all. That said, I feel compelled to quote Henry Ford:

"If I'd asked my customers what they wanted they'd have said a faster horse."

The best path (in most cases) is probably somewhere in between...
Paranormal Patroler
jschussler wrote:
The best path (in most cases) is probably somewhere in between...


I think Paul has already made a case for the middle path:

paults wrote:
when you have HW that works at least 90-95%, you have SW that is at least 75%, then announce. Show render, talk about features, solicit input.


At 75% of the software you pretty much know where the module is going and allow for changes so that your user base enjoys it even more. Everybody wins. Apart from one occasion I've never seen any Synthtech module be delayed (or become vaporware) and every single time they more than delivered. So yeah, I think this one is going to be amazing once again.
Funky40
paults wrote:
Pffftttt.....I want to build things people want. Not what I THINK they want.

Great thinking ! much appreciate your communication.



just your ususal "precise" date estimations ? ....... lol wink
johnbaptistephilouza
as long as the unit provides the same glitch/phase options as the e350 expander, I'll be picking one up asap
paults
E352 update

We changed the Noise, so the each of the 2 outputs has independent noise types (with a common 'pitch' set by Coarse/Fine/FM/1V/O) and added a 4-pole Moog ladder VCF. There are 4 noise types: white, pink, clocked and 'crackle' (like vinyl records).

The noise is set into 2 groups: filtered, then repeated un-filtered.

I'll have audio demos in a few weeks, still debugging stuff. Today is just first time we powered it up. Not bad for 6hrs of debugging to get menu up, audio up and we can field-upgrade via uSD card.

Pighood
fap fap fap... fap fap fap... fap fap fap...
orangehexagon
Brian Odey 1 wrote:
Paults,

Make your mind up and be decisive about the E370, and stop upping/downing anticipation: "Maybe we'll put it in, maybe we wont, maybe we have enough processing power, maybe we don't". Either it's in or it isn't, then go and make it.


you are obsessed with paul OMG !
paults
Well, I'm glad SOMEBODY is lol

Perhaps the person in question has never managed a project of this magnitude: 30,000 lines of C code, multiple, parallel HW developments and responding to beta testers who find things we never saw and suggest new ways of doing things that require extensive re-writes of device drivers so that we can stay within the 96KHz sample rate.

Lately we are trading off DSP speed with power, we want to keep the +12V current draw < 75ma and right now running ~170MHz and we can get all the calculations done and maintain a 20Hz screen refresh ISR (Interrupt Service Routine).

This is not a little VCA or mixer built from random Google schematics Dead Banana
MATSmile
Hey Paul,
On E370 2-OP FM is fixed sine or you can assign any waveform to it?
Dogma
MATSmile wrote:
Hey Paul,
On E370 2-OP FM is fixed sine or you can assign any waveform to it?


Why do you keep referencing the e370 in all the e352 threads???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????  ??
listentoaheartbeat
listentoaheartbeat wrote:
Morphing modulator, sine carrier would be cool, with the second output carrying the modulator like on the e330. Or is it the other way round?


Bumping this out of interest. thumbs up
paults
Quote:
On E370 2-OP FM is fixed sine or you can assign any waveform to it?


Yes, for both E352 and E370, you can assign a sine or a fixed wave from the wavetables. And THEN, you can morph them. There is another thread here where I demo this.
MATSmile
paults wrote:
Quote:
On E370 2-OP FM is fixed sine or you can assign any waveform to it?


Yes, for both E352 and E370, you can assign a sine or a fixed wave from the wavetables. And THEN, you can morph them. There is another thread here where I demo this.

Thanks thumbs up
paults
The assignment is by "dialing in" the wave using Z Morph knob/CV.

In the Cloud Mode, you can use the menu system to pick it directly from the loaded wavetables.

Perhaps in a future SW rev, this 'menu pick' can be for all 3 modes, not just the 1.
MATSmile
I have an idea for noise algo. What about implementing simple decay envelope triggered by Sync input with adjustable time in SW.
Brian Odey 1
paults wrote:
Well, I'm glad SOMEBODY is lol

Perhaps the person in question has never managed a project of this magnitude: 30,000 lines of C code, multiple, parallel HW developments and responding to beta testers who find things we never saw and suggest new ways of doing things that require extensive re-writes of device drivers so that we can stay within the 96KHz sample rate.



This is not a little VCA or mixer built from random Google schematics Dead Banana


Think about what you are saying here. 96kHz (not KHz) shows that you are trying to impress rather than actually understanding audio. Most adult people can't hear above 15kHz in a track flanked by HH's, Cymbals and Snares, so 30 kHz sample rate is fine, and 44kHz is as far as you need to go. With a given composition, can you actually hear the difference between 44 kHz and 96kHz from any one VCO? Well can you? So go with 10,000 lines of code and fewer re-writes.
paults
This is Mike Peake, isn't it?

And you are 100% right, I really don't understand audio. The 2 EE degrees, the 10 patents, the 39 years of design.....all a fraud. Thanks for setting the record straight. I feel so much better now.
emeb
Brian Odey 1 wrote:
Most adult people can't hear above 15kHz in a track flanked by HH's, Cymbals and Snares, so 30 kHz sample rate is fine, and 44kHz is as far as you need to go. With a given composition, can you actually hear the difference between 44 kHz and 96kHz from any one VCO? Well can you?


All snark aside, there are good reasons why we choose to run our oscillators at 96kHz vs lower rates. The main one is that it allows simpler synthesis techniques to be used while minimizing aliasing, but there are also issues of responsiveness to modulation that improve with higher sample rates.

You're right in that classical sampling theory requires only that you sample at 2x the bandwidth of the signal, but there's more going on here than Nyquist dreamt of.
gonkulator
paults wrote:
This is Mike Peake, isn't it?


hihi
Pighood
Sometimes I miss Walters9515 or whatever his name was.
Bob Borries
I expect a very low S/N ratio on your digital noise, please.
emeb
Bob Borries wrote:
I expect a very low S/N ratio on your digital noise, please.


But the noise is the signal! AAAAAaaaahhhhhhhh.....
2disbetter
emeb wrote:
Brian Odey 1 wrote:
Most adult people can't hear above 15kHz in a track flanked by HH's, Cymbals and Snares, so 30 kHz sample rate is fine, and 44kHz is as far as you need to go. With a given composition, can you actually hear the difference between 44 kHz and 96kHz from any one VCO? Well can you?


All snark aside, there are good reasons why we choose to run our oscillators at 96kHz vs lower rates. The main one is that it allows simpler synthesis techniques to be used while minimizing aliasing, but there are also issues of responsiveness to modulation that improve with higher sample rates.

You're right in that classical sampling theory requires only that you sample at 2x the bandwidth of the signal, but there's more going on here than Nyquist dreamt of.


This! More is better!

2d
Brian Odey 1
paults wrote:
This is Mike Peake, isn't it?

And you are 100% right, I really don't understand audio. The 2 EE degrees, the 10 patents, the 39 years of design.....all a fraud. Thanks for setting the record straight. I feel so much better now.


Categorically not Mike! I have trawled through all your patents, and whilst they are sort of granted or maintained, they are not entirely relevant; only one really relates to analog audio work. Even that is not that groundbreaking, and quite old. Coin operated machines? I 'spose they make a sound.
Dogma
Brian Odey 1 wrote:
paults wrote:
This is Mike Peake, isn't it?

And you are 100% right, I really don't understand audio. The 2 EE degrees, the 10 patents, the 39 years of design.....all a fraud. Thanks for setting the record straight. I feel so much better now.


Categorically not Mike! I have trawled through all your patents, and whilst they are sort of granted or maintained, they are not entirely relevant; only one really relates to analog audio work. Even that is not that groundbreaking, and quite old. Coin operated machines? I 'spose they make a sound.


Hey Brian! Its pretty obvious there is some other motive to your trolliing so have with it!

Or go make some music or something instead of trawling through someones old patents help help help
Dragonaut
I'd sure like a not-that-groundbreaking patent. As well as my own personal internet stalker.
slow_riot
Brian Odey 1 wrote:

Think about what you are saying here. 96kHz (not KHz) shows that you are trying to impress rather than actually understanding audio. Most adult people can't hear above 15kHz in a track flanked by HH's, Cymbals and Snares, so 30 kHz sample rate is fine, and 44kHz is as far as you need to go. With a given composition, can you actually hear the difference between 44 kHz and 96kHz from any one VCO? Well can you? So go with 10,000 lines of code and fewer re-writes.


For one thing, Nyquist is only related to crude detection of simple tones, not signal fidelity, 30Khz sample rate represents a 15Khz sine wave using a single square wave. In engineering terms that is called 100% harmonic distortion.

Aliasing is also a huge concern in digital audio processing, and implicitly related to sample rate. There is very rarely any reason to run at a lower resolution assuming the system can handle it. (One issue with high resolution processing in an audio system is the high current draw. Older criticisms of high sample rates claimed that clock jitter became unmanageable at 192Khz but those claims are now debunked I think).
Dogma
slow_riot wrote:
Brian Odey 1 wrote:

Think about what you are saying here. 96kHz (not KHz) shows that you are trying to impress rather than actually understanding audio. Most adult people can't hear above 15kHz in a track flanked by HH's, Cymbals and Snares, so 30 kHz sample rate is fine, and 44kHz is as far as you need to go. With a given composition, can you actually hear the difference between 44 kHz and 96kHz from any one VCO? Well can you? So go with 10,000 lines of code and fewer re-writes.


For one thing, Nyquist is only related to crude detection of simple tones, not signal fidelity, 30Khz sample rate represents a 15Khz sine wave using a single square wave. In engineering terms that is called 100% harmonic distortion.

Aliasing is also a huge concern in digital audio processing, and implicitly related to sample rate. There is very rarely any reason to run at a lower resolution assuming the system can handle it. (One issue with high resolution processing in an audio system is the high current draw. Older criticisms of high sample rates claimed that clock jitter became unmanageable at 192Khz but those claims are now debunked I think).


its ssoooo obvious he knows next to nothing about digital processing.....
akrylik
slow_riot wrote:
Brian Odey 1 wrote:

Think about what you are saying here. 96kHz (not KHz) shows that you are trying to impress rather than actually understanding audio. Most adult people can't hear above 15kHz in a track flanked by HH's, Cymbals and Snares, so 30 kHz sample rate is fine, and 44kHz is as far as you need to go. With a given composition, can you actually hear the difference between 44 kHz and 96kHz from any one VCO? Well can you? So go with 10,000 lines of code and fewer re-writes.


For one thing, Nyquist is only related to crude detection of simple tones, not signal fidelity, 30Khz sample rate represents a 15Khz sine wave using a single square wave. In engineering terms that is called 100% harmonic distortion.

Aliasing is also a huge concern in digital audio processing, and implicitly related to sample rate. There is very rarely any reason to run at a lower resolution assuming the system can handle it. (One issue with high resolution processing in an audio system is the high current draw. Older criticisms of high sample rates claimed that clock jitter became unmanageable at 192Khz but those claims are now debunked I think).


Although the "spirit" of your post is correct the details are incorrect. A 30kHz sampling rate IS able to represent a 15kHz sine wave perfectly . It's the 15kHz square wave (which has lots of upper harmonics) or any other waveform for that matter that cannot be represented with a 30kHz sampling rate.
Brian Odey 1
akrylik wrote:
slow_riot wrote:
Brian Odey 1 wrote:

Think about what you are saying here. 96kHz (not KHz) shows that you are trying to impress rather than actually understanding audio. Most adult people can't hear above 15kHz in a track flanked by HH's, Cymbals and Snares, so 30 kHz sample rate is fine, and 44kHz is as far as you need to go. With a given composition, can you actually hear the difference between 44 kHz and 96kHz from any one VCO? Well can you? So go with 10,000 lines of code and fewer re-writes.


For one thing, Nyquist is only related to crude detection of simple tones, not signal fidelity, 30Khz sample rate represents a 15Khz sine wave using a single square wave. In engineering terms that is called 100% harmonic distortion.

Aliasing is also a huge concern in digital audio processing, and implicitly related to sample rate. There is very rarely any reason to run at a lower resolution assuming the system can handle it. (One issue with high resolution processing in an audio system is the high current draw. Older criticisms of high sample rates claimed that clock jitter became unmanageable at 192Khz but those claims are now debunked I think).


Although the "spirit" of your post is correct the details are incorrect. A 30kHz sampling rate IS able to represent a 15kHz sine wave perfectly . It's the 15kHz square wave (which has lots of upper harmonics) or any other waveform for that matter that cannot be represented with a 30kHz sampling rate.


Quite right akrylik, but like I mentioned, if you can't hear, clearly, above 15kHz, then harmonics can't be detected either - so it becomes pointless and expensive to exceed. Going for 44kHz for a sound source among other sounds, is as high as you need to go. 96 kHz sampling is unnecessary and just a figure for sales brochures. Agreed, there may be those that can tell the difference between 44 and 96 kHz for the final master mix, but ask those same people to pin point a 44 kHz sound from a 96 kHz sound, and they would not be able to do it repetitively.
akrylik
Brian Odey 1 wrote:
akrylik wrote:
slow_riot wrote:
Brian Odey 1 wrote:

Think about what you are saying here. 96kHz (not KHz) shows that you are trying to impress rather than actually understanding audio. Most adult people can't hear above 15kHz in a track flanked by HH's, Cymbals and Snares, so 30 kHz sample rate is fine, and 44kHz is as far as you need to go. With a given composition, can you actually hear the difference between 44 kHz and 96kHz from any one VCO? Well can you? So go with 10,000 lines of code and fewer re-writes.


For one thing, Nyquist is only related to crude detection of simple tones, not signal fidelity, 30Khz sample rate represents a 15Khz sine wave using a single square wave. In engineering terms that is called 100% harmonic distortion.

Aliasing is also a huge concern in digital audio processing, and implicitly related to sample rate. There is very rarely any reason to run at a lower resolution assuming the system can handle it. (One issue with high resolution processing in an audio system is the high current draw. Older criticisms of high sample rates claimed that clock jitter became unmanageable at 192Khz but those claims are now debunked I think).


Although the "spirit" of your post is correct the details are incorrect. A 30kHz sampling rate IS able to represent a 15kHz sine wave perfectly . It's the 15kHz square wave (which has lots of upper harmonics) or any other waveform for that matter that cannot be represented with a 30kHz sampling rate.


Quite right akrylik, but like I mentioned, if you can't hear, clearly, above 15kHz, then harmonics can't be detected either - so it becomes pointless and expensive to exceed. Going for 44kHz for a sound source among other sounds, is as high as you need to go. 96 kHz sampling is unnecessary and just a figure for sales brochures. Agreed, there may be those that can tell the difference between 44 and 96 kHz for the final master mix, but ask those same people to pin point a 44 kHz sound from a 96 kHz sound, and they would not be able to do it repetitively.


It is not pointless unfortunately. Those higher harmonics of a 15kHz square wave (or any non-sine) will alias down into the lower frequencies and you will hear them very well. You are confusing the requirements of the encoding of a sound with the requirements of the synthesis of a sound.
Vortico
Supersonic sample rates are nice when driving other oscillators with via FM at audio rates (especially if your modulator is not a sine wave), because waveshaping at high frequencies changes the medium-frequency harmonics of lower frequency waveforms. Many nonlinear analog processors like tube distortion can also push the effects of supersonics into the audible range, which is the reason distortion pedal emulations suck. It's not that you hear the supersonics directly, but you can treat the digital modules more like actual analog circuits when pulling the above tricks.

The real reason though is that the DSP programmer doesn't need to worry about generating a perfect bandlimited signal, which requires lots of CPU, but can instead leave it up to an analog filter with shallower slope on the DAC output.
2disbetter
Brian Odey 1 wrote:

Quite right akrylik, but like I mentioned, if you can't hear, clearly, above 15kHz, then harmonics can't be detected either - so it becomes pointless and expensive to exceed. Going for 44kHz for a sound source among other sounds, is as high as you need to go. 96 kHz sampling is unnecessary and just a figure for sales brochures. Agreed, there may be those that can tell the difference between 44 and 96 kHz for the final master mix, but ask those same people to pin point a 44 kHz sound from a 96 kHz sound, and they would not be able to do it repetitively.


Just incase you missed this:

emeb wrote:

All snark aside, there are good reasons why we choose to run our oscillators at 96kHz vs lower rates. The main one is that it allows simpler synthesis techniques to be used while minimizing aliasing, but there are also issues of responsiveness to modulation that improve with higher sample rates.


2d
JohnLRice
I'm no expert but I think this is a good white paper by Dan Lavry. He is focused on audio sampling and not synthesis but for what it is worth:

The Optimal Sample Rate For Quality Audio
http://www.lavryengineering.com/pdfs/lavry-white-paper-the_optimal_sam ple_rate_for_quality_audio.pdf

"Although 60 KHz would be closer to the ideal; given the existing standards, 88.2 KHz and 96 KHz are closest
to the optimal sample rate. At 96 KHz sampling rate the theoretical bandwidth is 48 KHz. In designing a real
world converter operating at 96 KHz, one ends up with a bandwidth of approximately 40 KHz."
Brian Odey 1
JohnLRice wrote:
I'm no expert but I think this is a good white paper by Dan Lavry. He is focused on audio sampling and not synthesis but for what it is worth:

The Optimal Sample Rate For Quality Audio
http://www.lavryengineering.com/pdfs/lavry-white-paper-the_optimal_sam ple_rate_for_quality_audio.pdf

"Although 60 KHz would be closer to the ideal; given the existing standards, 88.2 KHz and 96 KHz are closest
to the optimal sample rate. At 96 KHz sampling rate the theoretical bandwidth is 48 KHz. In designing a real
world converter operating at 96 KHz, one ends up with a bandwidth of approximately 40 KHz."


Totally agree with this if you are <20 years old and can pick out 20kHz and its aliases from one sound source with a vast bottom end (this would be doubtful). But what Paul is saying is that features may not be added, because he may not be able to reach 96kHz rates. So in the pursuit of one theoretical spec, features might not be added? On the flip side, the implications are that sample rates of 44kHz are no longer good or not as good - which would be far from the truth - the difference is not worth the cost adder in this application, particularly for those >30 Years old.
Joe.
Brian Odey 1 wrote:
30 Years old.


I'm older than 30. my only real question at this point is... do you even have a modular synth?
dubonaire
Brian Odey 1 wrote:
I have trawled through all your patents, and whilst they are sort of granted or maintained, they are not entirely relevant; only one really relates to analog audio work. Even that is not that groundbreaking, and quite old. Coin operated machines? I 'spose they make a sound.


I'm wondering how many successful modules you've designed and produced. I have several excellent highly functional and high quality synth tech modules in my rack. The interesting thing about Paul's modules is that although he is an engineer and not a musician as such, his modules are extremely musical. (No one demonstrates this better than John L Rice.) I think his user base is relatively comfortable he knows what he is doing.
z3r01
dubonaire wrote:
Brian Odey 1 wrote:
I have trawled through all your patents, and whilst they are sort of granted or maintained, they are not entirely relevant; only one really relates to analog audio work. Even that is not that groundbreaking, and quite old. Coin operated machines? I 'spose they make a sound.


I'm wondering how many successful modules you've designed and produced. I have several excellent highly functional and high quality synth tech modules in my rack. The interesting thing about Paul's modules is that although he is an engineer and not a musician as such, his modules are extremely musical. (No one demonstrates this better than John L Rice.) I think his user base is relatively comfortable he knows what he is doing.


I would just like to add, not as a rebuttal to Brian Odey, but more a matter-of-fact, that Mr Robert Rich is a close collaborator of Synth Tech/Mr Schreiber, which probably explains the 'musical' aspect of ST modules.

That, coupled with Mr Brombaugh's coding skills, is pretty much the closest thing to a holy trinity* (of the synthesizer kind) in my opinion.

*Quaternity if you include JLR's demo-ing chops. This is fun!
Dogma
why is everyone giving this guy so much air?? these threads go like that ive noticed - someone says something ridiculous and repeats it ad nauseum and everyone else just defends something that doesnt require defending instead of just ignoring it. ..
I was going to link the Dan Lavry papers but then I thought "not like he'll read them"


Hey Paul - please keep the demos coming - all the modes please! smile

** Oh Bill - your getting the human hearing range confused with digital processing techniques. That simple.
x2mirko
Dogma wrote:
why is everyone giving this guy so much air??


Exactly. He's obviously trolling and it's not even subtle. The preferred solution would be to ban him, as it's quite apparent that this account only exists to troll on this topic. But if that fails, just ignore him. Arguing with trolls is nearly as silly as the trolling itself.
JohnLRice
Thanks much for the kind words, dubonaire and z3r01!
SlayerBadger! cool
paults
1) I depend on many beta testers to give the beta units a good thrashing (like inject white noise into all the CV inputs and see what happens). You should never proof-read your own term papers, and I want 3rd parties to look at each module to detect issues.

Robert Rich is my 'first line' beta tester, someone with acute hearing, a great sonic studio with superb speakers/amps/acoustics so he can hear even the smallest audio 'quirks'. He also approaches the module a lot differently than others, very 'West Coast' approach, trying multiple feedback loops. He's already added 6 new features/modes after having the unit 5 days. Lastly, since he has extensive touring use with modular, he suggested several UI changes specific for live performance. All users will benefit.

The next 2 beta testers have won Emmys for sound production. SlayerBadger!

2) I don't mind some trolling, I do it myself on occasion. I think in this specific case, the person does not understand DSP, does not understand 'real world' audio versus 'theory' and has never built a mass-produced product. So, knowing that, the comments are water off a duck's back as Granny used to say.

These same arguments were used since the day Sony introduced the CD player. And are still repeated today. Some are 'technical', some are like arguing over what is the best beer. Guinness ftw!

DSP can be "non-obvious" to laymen.
Brian Odey 1
paults wrote:
1) I depend on many beta testers to give the beta units a good thrashing (like inject white noise into all the CV inputs and see what happens). You should never proof-read your own term papers, and I want 3rd parties to look at each module to detect issues.

Robert Rich is my 'first line' beta tester, someone with acute hearing, a great sonic studio with superb speakers/amps/acoustics so he can hear even the smallest audio 'quirks'. He also approaches the module a lot differently than others, very 'West Coast' approach, trying multiple feedback loops. He's already added 6 new features/modes after having the unit 5 days. Lastly, since he has extensive touring use with modular, he suggested several UI changes specific for live performance. All users will benefit.

The next 2 beta testers have won Emmys for sound production. SlayerBadger!

2) I don't mind some trolling, I do it myself on occasion. I think in this specific case, the person does not understand DSP, does not understand 'real world' audio versus 'theory' and has never built a mass-produced product. So, knowing that, the comments are water off a duck's back as Granny used to say.

These same arguments were used since the day Sony introduced the CD player. And are still repeated today. Some are 'technical', some are like arguing over what is the best beer. Guinness ftw!

DSP can be "non-obvious" to laymen.


So Paul, can you tell the difference between 44kHz and 96kHz in any form, application or reason? If you can, then I'll test you - it's gloves off.
ignatius
is there an emoji that expresses i was thinking about "getting out the popcorn but this trolling is so uninteresting/lacking in entertainment that i can't be bothered to get the popcorn"???




so, on topic... tell me more about those modes
VZvision
Quote:
is there an emoji that expresses i was thinking about "getting out the popcorn but this trolling is so uninteresting/lacking in entertainment that i can't be bothered to get the popcorn"???


Stage 1: Enjoy the show! ?

Stage 2: Soapbox Bop! Rage! Soapbox Bop! Rage!

Stage 3: meh

And a special one for Brian Odey on how you make me feel....Russian Roulette
Pighood
I DEMAND ALL BURRORACK MODJEWELS PASS THE PUPPY SENSORY STIMUGATION TEST eek!
mbartkow
Brian Odey 1

Do you know what happens when you apply frequency modulation to a non-sinusoidal (but strictly band limited) signal with a modulator that is also non-sinusoidal (but also strictly band limited)? It explodes. Even at a moderate modulation depth it becomes infinite and slowly decaying. Are you saying there is no audible difference between heavily aliased signal whose spectrum is wrapped just above 20kHz and a signal with 100% more room in the frequency domain for the aliased terms?
Pighood
In addition, such frequencies curl granite tiles and void their warranties.
Funky40
i thought euro is all about noise, and now you guys want to develope it off ? ....and then add it back hmmm.....
wink


The VCDO/FMVDO is still one of my favorite VCOs ever.
a early modular work from emeb.
very curious to see where things go now.........
paults
Brian:

you are still "locked on" to thinking we are playing back non-modulated files, like a CD player.

In DSP, the "sample rate" has many OTHER implications for, as mbartkow accurately pointed out, non-sinusoidal signals being FM'd by other, non-sinusoidal signals. Like in a VCO, which is what we are building.

This is not about the same old tired CD/DAT/Mini-disc/MP3/FLACC/etc crap. This is about non-STATIC signals, being MODULATED. And the alias signals created.

BTW: we are running the DSP at 168MHz and are getting 96KHz sample rates at ~ 60% CPU loading. Thanks for asking.
paults
Quote:
Do you know what happens when you apply frequency modulation to a non-sinusoidal (but strictly band limited) signal with a modulator that is also non-sinusoidal (but also strictly band limited)? It explodes. Even at a moderate modulation depth it becomes infinite and slowly decaying. Are you saying there is no audible difference between heavily aliased signal whose spectrum is wrapped just above 20kHz and a signal with 100% more room in the frequency domain for the aliased terms?



No, he doesn't. He's trying to argue like it's 1994 about "digital" versus "analog".
paults
Fun Fact: the new electron drum machine uses 24-bit, 192KHz sampling. Wonder why?
JohnLRice
paults wrote:
Fun Fact: the new electron drum machine uses 24-bit, 192KHz sampling. Wonder why?
Marketing?
paults
Nope.
JohnLRice
paults wrote:
Nope.
hihi
TemplarK
paults wrote:
Fun Fact: the new electron drum machine uses 24-bit, 192KHz sampling. Wonder why?


So they can sell you their usb hub that transfers data faster?
Shwaj
Big new twist in the "Brian Odey 1" saga!

Rumor has it that "Brian" is actually a sock puppet controlled by paults... but to what end? Nobody is really sure of anything at this point, but one prominent theory is that "Brian" plays the role of a punching bag for paults to pummel with his dominant knowledge of audio math and DSP hacking.

The obvious goal of this charade is to inspire false confidence in the quality of his modules, allowing him to unload his junk for 10x what it would fetch, were the true facts known.

Looks like we're really headed down the rabbit hole on this one, folks...

Amirite? nanners
JohnLRice
Shwaj wrote:
Big new twist in the "Brian Odey 1" saga!

Rumor has it that "Brian" is actually a sock puppet controlled by paults... but to what end? Nobody is really sure of anything at this point, but one prominent theory is that "Brian" plays the role of a punching bag for paults to pummel with his dominant knowledge of audio math and DSP hacking.

The obvious goal of this charade is to inspire false confidence in the quality of his modules, allowing him to unload his junk for 10x what it would fetch, were the true facts known.

Looks like we're really headed down the rabbit hole on this one, folks...

Amirite? nanners

Many governments, universities, and enemies of Austin Powers have poured "millions" . . . I mean "BILLIONS" of research dollars into trying to understand the inner workings of Paul T Schreiber but all have failed so far because the laboratory mice always die before they are able to obtain a high enough concentration of Dr. Pepper in their blood streams. hihi
Brian Odey 1
paults wrote:
Fun Fact: the new electron drum machine uses 24-bit, 192KHz sampling. Wonder why?


Hold on Paults, you are saying that 96kHz is far better than 44kHz, and now we have electron with 192kHz, so are you saying it's even better than your design, and that yours is trash? Perhaps to save the day, it would be a good idea for you to demonstrate the difference between 192kHz, 96kHz and 44kHz FM and sampling, in a mix, and post it for people to understand the 'theoretical difference' for themselves? I do have some very expensive monitors, and I can't wait to be enlightened.
paults
I'm saying you are a complete and total idiot. And a troll.
bobbcorr
While I have never had to use it before, I am now prepared to celebrate the Ignore List functionality, which banishes the inane barking of trollish humanoids to the depths.
Kummer
Brian Odey 1 wrote:
paults wrote:
Fun Fact: the new electron drum machine uses 24-bit, 192KHz sampling. Wonder why?


Hold on Paults, you are saying that 96kHz is far better than 44kHz, and now we have electron with 192kHz, so are you saying it's even better than your design, and that yours is trash? Perhaps to save the day, it would be a good idea for you to demonstrate the difference between 192kHz, 96kHz and 44kHz FM and sampling, in a mix, and post it for people to understand the 'theoretical difference' for themselves? I do have some very expensive monitors, and I can't wait to be enlightened.


Yeah man, your being a dick
Pighood
Is it Piers Morgan?
DougD
How do we report someone to the mods to be banned? This is obviously a troll account.

I ignored him but his jackassery keeps polluting threads, so now I just see a bunch of people responding to him instead of actual discussion about the thread topics.
tweakfilter
DougD wrote:
How do we report someone to the mods to be banned? This is obviously a troll account.

I ignored him but his jackassery keeps polluting threads, so now I just see a bunch of people responding to him instead of actual discussion about the thread topics.


you can report here
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=138462

In my opinion I think Brian posts are not threatening anyone. As I don't know nothing about build process/design I will not pronounce myself about it... but i understand his point of views. If a manufacturer wants to promote his products in a forum he needs to be ready for an attack module feature set. Also you can use the "ignore" function. that being said I don't think banning is the way to go, just ignore him if you want it.
Drakhe
tweakfilter wrote:
DougD wrote:
How do we report someone to the mods to be banned? This is obviously a troll account.

I ignored him but his jackassery keeps polluting threads, so now I just see a bunch of people responding to him instead of actual discussion about the thread topics.


you can report here
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=138462

In my opinion I think Brian posts are not threatening anyone. As I don't know nothing about build process/design I will not pronounce myself about it... but i understand his point of views. If a manufacturer wants to promote his products in a forum he needs to be ready for an attack module feature set. Also you can use the "ignore" function. that being said I don't think banning is the way to go, just ignore him if you want it.


Ignoring is useless when everybody keeps quoting him...
Drakhe
@Brian Odey 1

You keep on BS'ing about AUDIO ...

How many more people do you need explaining to you it has nothing to do with audio and has everything to do with INTERNAL PROCESSING AND MODULATION of signals?

Do you not understand english? Or are you just such a fan of INTERNAL MODULATION that you listen to that on your golden system?

All your talk is just proving ONE thing and ONE thing only: you only believe your own gospel ....
akrylik
I reported him here:

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2570439#2570439
SynthBaron
JohnLRice wrote:
paults wrote:
Fun Fact: the new electron drum machine uses 24-bit, 192KHz sampling. Wonder why?
Marketing?


I'm gonna go with the latest and greatest converter IC's being less expensive than the older ones with less resolution.
paults
Quote:
I'm gonna go with the latest and greatest converter IC's being less expensive than the older ones with less resolution.


Someone is paying attention.
SynthBaron
paults wrote:
Quote:
I'm gonna go with the latest and greatest converter IC's being less expensive than the older ones with less resolution.


Someone is paying attention.


I wondered last year when my mid range Lenovo laptop came standard with 24/192 audio and was surprised about the amount of competition in that area of IC production there is nowadays, in terms of low cost/"high quality".
paults
Also, these parts can run about 16 combinations of bit depth and sampling speed, it doesn't *have* to run 24/192KHz.
facklr
Brian Odey 1 wrote:
Hold on Paults, you are saying that 96kHz is far better than 44kHz, and now we have electron with 192kHz, so are you saying it's even better than your design, and that yours is trash? Perhaps to save the day, it would be a good idea for you to demonstrate the difference between 192kHz, 96kHz and 44kHz FM and sampling, in a mix, and post it for people to understand the 'theoretical difference' for themselves? I do have some very expensive monitors, and I can't wait to be enlightened.


It's spelled 'Elektron'.
Jumbuktu
paults wrote:
Quote:
When does it ship?


If things go as planned, mid-August.

Depends on the beta testing/bug fixing. I'll have beta units (sorry, testers all assigned) in 2 weeks. There is a 4 week beta test schedule, then production of HW begins (panels ordered, etc).

In ~ 3 weeks, you will be able to pre-order the black panel version from my website ($469 in US/$499 foreign) which includes shipping.


What material is the black panel? Anodised aluminium?
paults
Quote:
What material is the black panel? Anodised aluminium?


It's the MetalPhoto process, so it's the same 'black' as the lettering on the current silver panels.
Jumbuktu
paults wrote:
Quote:
What material is the black panel? Anodised aluminium?


It's the MetalPhoto process, so it's the same 'black' as the lettering on the current silver panels.


OK, thanks.
MATSmile
Will there be any screen protection? Maybe something like that http://store.industrialmusicelectronics.com/product/stillson-hammer-re d-window
Triggerhappy
Hi!
The E352 looks very tempting for sure! I have a moog 104 HP skiffwith Max depth 1.9 in or ca 48 mm. What is the expected depth of E352? The E350 has 47 mm depth so ...
I understand specs will come in due time, but
Any info would be appreciated!
gonkulator
I am trying to figure out the differences between the E370 and E352(dark one ordered) other than the number of voices. Is there a something that shows the differences, or are they the same?
antisvin
Their core features are the same, but E352 would get 1 addition input and 1 output (it has 8 IO channels while, E370 has 6 per voice). E352 will have a few additional modes as discussed in this topic, but I believe it's not supposed to have through-zero FM that E370 will. But yeah, the need for polyphony should be the decisive factor here.
reppiks
E370 has chord mode
paults
Until we get the E370 prototype HW (in about 2 weeks) and start porting the code over, we can't say exactly what features from the E352 will be in the E370. I can say:

a) E370 has 4 pitch-independent audio streams. E352 has 1.
b) E370 has 2 CV-able parameters per voice. E352 has 3.
c) E370 has Chord Mode. E352 does not.
d) E370 has TZFM. E352 does not.

The E370 DSP runs 216MHz. The E352 runs at 158MHz. The E370 will draw around 90ma off +12V, the E352 75ma.
dooj88
paults wrote:
New E352 modes: variable distortion when morphing (via wavefolder)


just wanted to clarify what this means: is the morph + distort achieved via a wavefolder? or is it signal distortion with wavefolder-ish sounds?

if it's the former, morphing a wavefolded wavetable is making me Drunken Homer Simpson nanners
paults
It's a wavefolder
dooj88
paults wrote:
It's a wavefolder


my pants are ruined! BOOM!
Pighood
dooj88 wrote:
paults wrote:
It's a wavefolder


my pants are ruined! BOOM!


fap fap fap... fap fap fap... fap fap fap...
Paranormal Patroler
This thread is not so much fun now that Brian stopped trying to reduce the price of the module. I had to Google some of the names you guys referenced previously, funny stuff. Enjoy the show!
dirtbudda
My b-day is mid august so I can't wait!!! love
paults
Quick update

Parts will be delivered to the SMT assembly house this week. Still on track to *begin* shipping ~ august 18th or so. It will take 4 weeks to ship all of them.
Klangzaun
There are some soundclips on soundcloud (you can find it via the website). So far I am not convinced by them. Hope there will come some videos and better sound examples.
MARK27
I have kind of a noob question about how the wavetable synthesis works at low frequencies.

I'm an old guy and I used to hate digital oscillators. These days, my mind is being slowly changed by some amazing contemporary engineering.

I have become "for real" interested by the E352 since a) Paul let it be known that there would be a black panel version, and b) since I read that this would have all the waveforms from the E340 and E350 AND all at a significantly higher sample rate.

My question is, if I am using the E352 to CV mod a filter or something, how does the E352 use these tiny bits of data ("any .WAV over 256 samples is rejected by the Loader") at low frequencies without hearing stepping? It makes sense that the wave would sound okay at audio frequencies, but when you are replaying a wave from a wavetable that slowly, don't you start hearing the aliasing from the sample rate? Or does the engine somehow compensate for such artifacts?

Thank you for any enlightenment.

And thank you, Paul, for all your work.
Mark
paults
There is a difference in what the final audio out is, versus the data stored in the wavetable.

There are 2 filters after the VCO, one digital and 1 analog.

The DAC has a digital filter. You can read about it in the Cirrus Logic CS4344 data sheet. The filter is a form of averaging, so the 1 voltage coming out is a weighted average of the last number of samples going in (like the last 128).

This is called over-sampling, and although the main benefit is to "push' the noise out to a higher frequency so it can be easily filtered out by the analog filter, it also is an overall "smoothing" effect.

Also, this is a full 16-bit system, so there are 65,535 possible voltages. If the overall swing is 10V pk-pk, a 'step' is 10/65,535 = 153uV (153 *millionths* of a volt). That's small:, a whole step is a change of 0.0833V, so we are talking 153uV/83.3mv = 0.18% of a pitch step. That's about 6 times lower than human pitch perception.
Vortico
MARK27 wrote:
how does the E352 use these tiny bits of data ("any .WAV over 256 samples is rejected by the Loader") at low frequencies without hearing stepping?

A DAC doesn't do this.



Without getting too technical, the Nyquist–Shannon sampling theorem says that if you want to digitally record, store, and play back a signal, as long as the signal doesn't have frequency components higher than frequency F, you can reproduce it exactly by sampling at a sample rate of 2F. For an "ideal" wavetable oscillator using 256 samples, if you set the frequency to 1Hz, the microcontroller's sample rate will effectively be 256Hz, which means that all frequencies under 128Hz will reproduced perfectly, while frequencies over 128Hz will be zero.

No DAC is ideal because the transition from 100% to 0% gain when you pass from 127Hz to 129Hz and beyond is gradual instead of an immediate drop. This smoothness gives a DAC its color. The E352's DAC is very transparent, and I haven't yet noticed a difference between it and a true bandlimited waveform for LFO frequencies.

Basically, my point is, a DAC is not a sample & hold.
emeb
MARK27 wrote:

My question is, if I am using the E352 to CV mod a filter or something, how does the E352 use these tiny bits of data ("any .WAV over 256 samples is rejected by the Loader") at low frequencies without hearing stepping? It makes sense that the wave would sound okay at audio frequencies, but when you are replaying a wave from a wavetable that slowly, don't you start hearing the aliasing from the sample rate? Or does the engine somehow compensate for such artifacts?


The E352 wavetables are 256 samples x 16-bits. When we use a wavetable to generate an audio signal that doesn't have exactly 256 samples/cycle then the system interpolates. For low frequencies this provides a smooth transition between the individual wave samples. We also provide you with an option to disable this interpolation which provides the "steppy" version of the waveform with sharp edges an long holds at each sample just in case you need that.
funqpatrol
ship it
Klangzaun
Will there be a kind of editor to make own wavetables?
paults
Yes, a free one across Mac/PC/Linux

WaveEdit
JohnLRice
Klangzaun wrote:
Will there be a kind of editor to make own wavetables?
w00t It's pretty complete and amazing, Andrew did a great job, check it out!
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=184084

Klangzaun
Wow. Thanks for making this clear. :-)
MARK27
Wow. Thanks for the schooling, fellas! Now it finally makes sense why some of the more modern digital audio seems to work so well.

That being said, it's clear that the digital audio sounding good is still heavily dependent on the implementation. Without naming names there are certain euro manufacturers doing digital whose high end still sounds all glassy to my ears. Lo-fi digital stuff always sounded that way to me. I'm more impressed that there are some people, like Mr. Schreiber and co., stretching and pulling digital audio that, while not sounding analog, still manages to sound smooth and refined in a way that the digital processes from 20 years ago never quite managed.

But I'm going to have to do way more reading before I start to understand why some digital audio processes sound still sound glassy, while others sound good.

Take my money!
wellurban
JohnLRice wrote:
Klangzaun wrote:
Will there be a kind of editor to make own wavetables?
w00t It's pretty complete and amazing, Andrew did a great job, check it out!
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=184084


I'd been on the fence about the E352: really tempted, but not quite convinced yet. Then I watched the WaveEdit videos, and that was enough to tip me over! A very professional piece of software to complement a no doubt extremely professional module.
paults
Here is a 'general overview' video. More vids to come, showing each VCO mode in detail.

JohnLRice
paults wrote:
Here is a 'general overview' video. More vids to come, showing each VCO mode in detail.


w00t
wellurban
paults wrote:
Here is a 'general overview' video. More vids to come, showing each VCO mode in detail.


Great stuff! The FM spectrum view is really helpful: not sure whether I'd seen that before.
paults
Quote:
The FM spectrum view is really helpful: not sure whether I'd seen that before.


We added it a few versions ago. Bessel functions, how do they work?
Pighood
fap fap fap...
CF3
paults wrote:
Here is a 'general overview' video. More vids to come, showing each VCO mode in detail.


jawdrop
Klangzaun
The pushes the module some pace higher on my wishlist. applause
Bambou
something wonderful
mbartkow
I really don't understand why it is so hard to draw waveforms clearly, i.e. with segments instead of dots, while it was apparently possible to render animated 3D shapes in the "eye candy" screen seriously, i just don't get it
Migrigsynth
Very nice! applause
MoogCloud
paults wrote:
Here is a 'general overview' video. More vids to come, showing each VCO mode in detail.



The Morphing Terrarium was going to be next on my list.....I may have to upgrade!
Rockin' Banana!
BTByrd
mbartkow wrote:
I really don't understand why it is so hard to draw waveforms clearly, i.e. with segments instead of dots, while it was apparently possible to render animated 3D shapes in the "eye candy" screen seriously, i just don't get it


The dottiness is mostly apparent on really complex waveforms. The visualization or "scope" shows two cycles of the wave, but if you could view a single cycle across the entire screen, I'm sure it would appear less dotty. For what it's worth, the images are better than I get from similar waves using an O'Tool and the E350.
paults
Quote:
I really don't understand why it is so hard to draw waveforms clearly, i.e. with segments instead of dots, while it was apparently possible to render animated 3D shapes in the "eye candy" screen


2 reasons

1 - this is a serial access display, and this limits the overall FPS rate we can get. The audio has priority (in fact the, the display has the LOWEST priority). Also, this is a 'dumb' display, we have to use the processor RAM as the frame buffer, then DMA it out at the screen refresh rate.

2 - the "scope" mode trades off the screen refresh rate with resolution. Sure, we could draw lines and refresh the screen about 5FPS. But drawing the dots pushes that to ~22FPS. The Eye Candy is drawn about 8FPS.
bobbcorr
That was an outstanding introductory demo, Paul - I'm looking forward to future more musical explorations. Might I also recommend one version of Eye Candy simply display a photo of REDACTED in circa 1992 lo-res USENET style to remind us to get back to work thx.
lordymosh
The E352 looks great. That video swayed me. How much will it cost in euros in European distros?
paults
Quote:
How much will it cost in euros in European distros?


I don't set EU pricing. I think Schneider's has a pre-order page up.

Usually, it USA price + about 24%, which includes VAT and the shipping expense to get it over there.
BTByrd
I may have missed it, but is there a way to get a sub oscillator from output 2?
starthief
BTByrd wrote:
I may have missed it, but is there a way to get a sub oscillator from output 2?


You can use FM mode and set the modulator ratio to 2 or .5 (there are seperate outputs for modulator and final).

Or create a wavetable that has 2x the cycles.

Or set an output to square and divide it with another module.

Or strictly if you're using triangles, use the wavefolder to double one of them.
paults
Quote:
I may have missed it, but is there a way to get a sub oscillator from output 2?


This is a feature request we are thinking about.

I guess the options would be:

a) Sub-out on 2, yes/no
b) octave: -1, -2, -3
c) Copy of OUT1 or Square wave
BTByrd
paults wrote:
Quote:
I may have missed it, but is there a way to get a sub oscillator from output 2?


This is a feature request we are thinking about.

I guess the options would be:

a) Sub-out on 2, yes/no
b) octave: -1, -2, -3
c) Copy of OUT1 or Square wave


I would enthusiastically support that. It may be helpful to add a detune or drift parameter in the menu as well.
paults
Doing this adds another NCO to the code. Too late to add in the initial release, it's in the list of things for the next major update.
emeb
paults wrote:
Doing this adds another NCO to the code. Too late to add in the initial release, it's in the list of things for the next major update.


And in the meantime, starthief's suggestions above are absolutely correct:

* 2-op FM allows the modulator to run as a sub-osc that can go 1, 2 or 3 octaves down as well as 1 or 2 up while still allowing arbitrary waves and morphing

* Wave folder with certain wave shapes can go up an octave

* Bank A wavetable has sine harmonics that provide as much as 3 octaves up.

* Make your own wavetables with any ratios and shapes you desire
SynthBaron
Having high visual refresh rates is nice, but to a point it's like focusing on the quality of the dashboard clock in a Rolls Royce instead of the whole car.
paults
Black test panel arrived. Awesome Sauce.

MARK27
YESSSSS!!!!!!!!!

applause applause applause applause applause
starthief
jsheaucsb
Looks outstanding!!!
dooj88
from the synthtech website manual:

Quote:
+12V @ 65ma, -12V @24ma.


all this and easy on the power supply as well! hot. damn.
uebl
dooj88 wrote:
from the synthtech website manual:

Quote:
+12V @ 65ma, -12V @24ma.


all this and easy on the power supply as well! hot. damn.


Yeah, I'm a bit surprised by its little power consumption, too. But hey, even better! thumbs up
spencewilder
paults wrote:
Black test panel arrived. Awesome Sauce.



Possum Boss! I need this in my murdered out wall of credit card debt.
dirtbudda
Hell with the c.c. I started a euro savings account.
paults
Received the first 40 stuffed pc boards. You always hold your breath when you hit that power swirch sad banana SlayerBadger! screaming goo yo Guinness ftw!

Arcana
I've preordered one of these. One thing that I dislike about wavetables is that I can't see what they look like, so it's like a number guessing game to figure out which ones sound good.

When you have a screen, this problem goes away. When you have seamless transitions of XYZ, this problem goes away. I'm excited.
starthief
I kind of thought the wave display might be overkill, until I actually tried it. Instead it made me think maybe I should get an O'Tool or similar for everything else.

I have a cheap pocket oscilloscope, but I only pull it out to check out new modules or clear up confusion/problems, and I probably miss some insights by not using it more.
Kummer
Here is a stupid question for any of you engineers or people in the know. I had asked about possibly providing a "dirty" output on this module with a true 12-bit DAC and paults said that you could just use software to achieve that same result. Now I realize digital is digital, but is there anything special about a true 12-bit (or 8-bit) DAC versus just dropping the resolution via software?

Those old drum machines for instance (SP-1200, MPC, etc..), I realize that a huge part of their sound is due to analog filters/etc, but does the DAC contribute to the sound in any meaningful way as well? Or Digital is Digital, and the same results can be had via software only?

Dumb question I know, but it's never been clear to me. Any help?
paults
Dropping bits on a higher-order DAC is the same as NOT dropping them on a lower res DAC.

So, if I start with a 12bit sample, and drop the lower 4 bits, and play that through a 8-bit DAC that is the same as recording at 8 bits and playing back at 8 bits.

The WaveEdit software lets you go from 16 bits down to 2 bits.
paults
Here are 2 new demos by Robert Rich, showing off the E352 in the new Morph+Cloud mode. Enjoy!

[s]http://soundcloud.com/paul-t-schreiber/e352cloudmorphdrone[/s]

and

[s]http://soundcloud.com/paul-t-schreiber/e352cloudmorphmodswell[/s]
Kummer
paults wrote:
Dropping bits on a higher-order DAC is the same as NOT dropping them on a lower res DAC.

So, if I start with a 12bit sample, and drop the lower 4 bits, and play that through a 8-bit DAC that is the same as recording at 8 bits and playing back at 8 bits.

The WaveEdit software lets you go from 16 bits down to 2 bits.


I think I get what your saying, and thanks for answering my question! No difference then
Ypsi Kid
Hoping the units ordered directly from Paul will be shipping soon (the black face plate units)? I've seen a few in the wild and just hoping mine will be arriving soon smile Any news, I think Paul said late Aug/early Sept, just wondering if everything is till on target...
paults
It will take me until the end of Sept to ship all the black E352s. I have 2 major trade shows to attend in the next weeks ahead + that whole E370 Quad VCO thing to finish up.
paults
New DivKid video, first of many to follow

nostalghia
paults wrote:
It will take me until the end of Sept to ship all the black E352s. I have 2 major trade shows to attend in the next weeks ahead + that whole E370 Quad VCO thing to finish up.


Any update on when you will be shipping the sliver E352s to US dealers?
I have one on preorder at DM, and those excellent demos from Robert Rich just fueled my lustful anticipation even more...haven't looked forward to any module this much for quite a while.
Ypsi Kid
paults wrote:
It will take me until the end of Sept to ship all the black E352s. I have 2 major trade shows to attend in the next weeks ahead + that whole E370 Quad VCO thing to finish up.


Pffft, who needs trade shows wink Totally understand Paul, just jonsing a bit after seeing/hearing the demos popping up. Can't wait to get my hands on this fantastic VCO!!

Cheers.
ZZ Ardoz
Is it just a coincidence that there is an E352-size hole right now in-between my E560 and my RR480? Beginning to think not. Can't wait to get this. Sounds amazing
Knights Who Say Neve
Kummer wrote:
Here is a stupid question for any of you engineers or people in the know. I had asked about possibly providing a "dirty" output on this module with a true 12-bit DAC and paults said that you could just use software to achieve that same result. Now I realize digital is digital, but is there anything special about a true 12-bit (or 8-bit) DAC versus just dropping the resolution via software?

Those old drum machines for instance (SP-1200, MPC, etc..), I realize that a huge part of their sound is due to analog filters/etc, but does the DAC contribute to the sound in any meaningful way as well? Or Digital is Digital, and the same results can be had via software only?

Dumb question I know, but it's never been clear to me. Any help?


I think some of the 8 and 12 bit samplers used analog companders (same basic principle as Dolby or DBX) to increase dynamic range, and that could change the sound vs. a straight conversion. And some DACs are better, or "better" than others. But I wouldn't expect paults to put extra circuitry on a module to achieve what would most likely be a very marginal difference vs. bit reduction in software.
paults
The first of dealer silver panel E352s are in route to Control NYC. I will be alternating shipping black & silver modules starting Monday (like 20/20/20/20/....)
auxren
paults wrote:
New DivKid video, first of many to follow



Gahhh!!!! This makes me even more excited for the E370!!
johny_gtr
paults wrote:
Here are 2 new demos by Robert Rich, showing off the E352 in the new Morph+Cloud mode. Enjoy!

[s]http://soundcloud.com/paul-t-schreiber/e352cloudmorphdrone[/s]

and

[s]http://soundcloud.com/paul-t-schreiber/e352cloudmorphmodswell[/s]


I've listened both tracks before reading comments for it. I think it's very Mr. Rich's sound in it. SlayerBadger!
jjclark
This unit looks (and sounds) pretty nice, Paul.

Way to raise the bar...
mheumann
paults wrote:
The first of dealer silver panel E352s are in route to Control NYC. I will be alternating shipping black & silver modules starting Monday (like 20/20/20/20/....)


w00t w00t w00t
dooj88
paults wrote:
The first of dealer silver panel E352s are in route to Control NYC. I will be alternating shipping black & silver modules starting Monday (like 20/20/20/20/....)


paul, will there be a video capture of your visit to control this wednesday? i don't fancy livestreams, but i'll figure out where to watch live if i have to.
mdoudoroff
Spent a little time today with what appears to be a production E352 at Control.

Sounds great!

Also looks great! The menu system is a bit tedious, I suppose that once you’ve mastered the module, you don’t actually spend that much time poking around.
paults
Quote:
The menu system is a bit tedious


Well, tedious in the sense there IS one.

The menu system is as 'shallow' as you can design it: 1 'menu' page, and everything else is a single page under each topic.

And there are 8 presets, so once you set those up, you can just go between them and never have to change unless really needed.
mdoudoroff
paults wrote:
Quote:
The menu system is a bit tedious


Well, tedious in the sense there IS one.

The menu system is as 'shallow' as you can design it: 1 'menu' page, and everything else is a single page under each topic.

And there are 8 presets, so once you set those up, you can just go between them and never have to change unless really needed.


Well… it’s obviously a highly rational menu designed by an engineer, and it could certainly be worse. For example, it could be three levels deep. It could be presented on a damn two-line bile-green LCD screen with cryptic abbreviations. (We remember those.) It’s none of that. Rather, it’s clean, highly legible and the visualizations are very nice.
bobbcorr
/sarcasm=on

The menu system should be a series of cat photos, each of which is associated with a different mode of operation, the values of each parameter indicated by the changing colors of the cat's eyes, or the laser blasts emanating from the aforementioned eyes, whichever is more appropriate to the specific cat photo.

Kewords like PLUGH and XYZZY, when entered in binary, unlock the 'secret functionality' which is controlled by brain waves.

In other words, it could be like many other opaque button-and-LED-driven menu systems.

/sarcasm=off

From what I've seen it's a perfectly usable and lovely menu system. Well done.
MARK27
paults wrote:
It will take me until the end of Sept to ship all the black E352s.


I've been getting the money together for weeks to put in my pre-order. When I saw this post from Paul, it kinda made it sound like maybe all the black panels had been spoken for. eek!

My adrenalin was totally spiking as I went to the website and got my pre-order in. Thank you, god - my pre-order seemed to go through.

But Paul would tell us if there were only a few black panels left, right? Maybe not -- he's pretty busy.

Relief! we're not worthy

This is going to be a LONG September... hyper
joskery
Quick question from a guy who hasn't tried the e350:

What do the different outputs do?
starthief
joskery wrote:
What do the different outputs do?


That depends on the mode.

Morph:
Output 1 is the wave at X, Y (treating the wavetable as an 8x8 grid).
Output 2 is the wave at Z (treating the wavetable as a row of 64 waves).
They have the same frequency and phase, but they don't have to have the same table.

Morph + Phase:
Output 1 is the wave at Z.
Output 2 is the wave at Z, with the phase offset by X, and the amplitude attenuated by Y.
They have the same frequency, and IIRC, the same table...?

Morph + Fold:
Output 1 is the wave at Z with X amount of folding.
Output 2 is the wave at Z with Y amount of folding.
They have the same frequency and phase, but don't have to have the same table.

Cloud:
Output 1 and 2 can be set to different waves, but have the same base frequency and share cloud parameters.

Cloud + Morph:
Output 1 and 2 can be set to different waves or tables, but have the same base frequency and share cloud/morph parameters.

FM:
Output 1 is the modulator.
Output 2 is the carrier modulated by the modulator.
They share the same base frequency but the ratio of the modulator can be changed (Y scans through useful preset ratios).

Noise:
Two independent noise sources, though they share the same frequency (which could be filter frequency, clock rate or ignored depending on type).

There's a help page in the menu that summarizes the parameter assignments and outputs are for the current mode.
joskery
Thanks Mr. Thief, very very helpful!

I think I'll read through the e350 manual, that must shed some light on the workings of the 352, too...
Jumbuktu
I have an E350 already.

I don't need this.

... must .... resist .....

Ah, fuck it, went on the pre-orders at Control.
mdoudoroff
joskery wrote:
Thanks Mr. Thief, very very helpful!

I think I'll read through the e350 manual, that must shed some light on the workings of the 352, too...


You can also download the WaveEdit beta software, load a bank (I recommend starting with the Bank A, Bank B, or Bank C, easily accessible from the WaveEdit Online tab) turn on Play. If you drag your mouse up and down the vertical list of wavetables at the left, that’s analogous to sweeping Z on the second output. If you switch the the XY view tab where the wavetables are arranged on an 8x8 grid, dragging the mouse over that grid is analogous to sweeping X and Y on the first output.

DivKid did an E350 video for FM here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cB8yNP36oE

The “cloud” stuff in the E352 bumps this up a notch by creating a swarm of wavetable oscillators.
brandonlogic
watch paul's presentation on it from last night, he explains it, and audio demos.

sounds like through zero fm may still eventually come to the e352 MY ASS IS BLEEDING

dooj88
i watched that last night, he's an engaging speaker
paults
Demo wizard DivKid Ben is in the process of a great "video manual" for the E352, should be ready to post any day now.

Thanks to everyone that watch the LiveStream, is now archived (at the same link) on YouTube. This was their first try, it was a mad scramble but for the most part was fine. We had a bad patch cord in the audio chain, there was a 'crackle' heard every now and then. And I will post a PDF of my slide tomorrow as they were too out of focus.
joskery
Fantastic, mdoudoroff, I'll get right on that. Thanks for the tip.

Also looking forward to Paul's PDF.
nickbaba
Have these started shipping now?

Few people posting on FB that they have theirs already...

EDIT: OK never mind, I just read Paul's posts on the previous page. Can't wait for my black panel 352...
brandonlogic
nickbaba wrote:
Have these started shipping now?

Got my tracking number from control yesterday! It's peanut butter jelly time!
paults
The black panel ones started shipping ~ 10 days ago, the silver dealer panel ones last week. I still over 200 more to ship, so everyone hold tight and eventually they will show up It's peanut butter jelly time! Rockin' Banana! Guinness ftw!
matttech
paults wrote:
The black panel ones started shipping ~ 10 days ago, the silver dealer panel ones last week. I still over 200 more to ship, so everyone hold tight and eventually they will show up It's peanut butter jelly time! Rockin' Banana! Guinness ftw!


Good stuff thumbs up
ben_hex
MORPHING CLOUDS = ACE! w00t w00t screaming goo yo screaming goo yo SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_LgeE4tMpE

Funky40
Sounds AWESOME ! Dead Banana
reodjectz
--- Handled swiftly ---
paults
I do mess up. But then I try to fix it ASAP. SlayerBadger!
mdoudoroff
ben_hex — that is, indeed, ace.
paults
It took me 5 passes to hear 'Ace' and not 'Ass'.
ben_hex
paults wrote:
It took me 5 passes to hear 'Ace' and not 'Ass'.


I must have an ace ass
paults
Stop goofing off on MW and edit that long E352 video.
drinkcorpsevomit
Please excuse the caveman-style lumpy question:

Is the E370 basically 4 E352 glued together?

If I buy 4 E352s, do I end up with more or less goodness than buying a single E370.

Looks awesome either way. My is going to Synthesis Technology no matter what.
Funky40
simliar question:
is that "morphing clouds mode" as used in the video above included in the E370 ?
MATSmile
Funky40 wrote:
simliar question:
is that "morphing clouds mode" as used in the video above included in the E370 ?

It was one of the stretch goals of the ks campaign.
Trebbers
drinkcorpsevomit wrote:
Please excuse the caveman-style lumpy question:

Is the E370 basically 4 E352 glued together?

If I buy 4 E352s, do I end up with more or less goodness than buying a single E370.

Looks awesome either way. My is going to Synthesis Technology no matter what.


OTMH the big difs are the E370 has a chord mode/sequencer and TZFM when it ships, but the E352 has 2 outputs and 3 CVable (vs. 2) parameters. TZFM pledged for E352 after 500 units are sold.
brandonlogic
MATSmile wrote:
Funky40 wrote:
simliar question:
is that "morphing clouds mode" as used in the video above included in the E370 ?

It was one of the stretch goals of the ks campaign.


So are there sill any modes on the e352 that are not on the e370?
MATSmile
brandonlogic wrote:
MATSmile wrote:
Funky40 wrote:
simliar question:
is that "morphing clouds mode" as used in the video above included in the E370 ?

It was one of the stretch goals of the ks campaign.


So are there sill any modes on the e352 that are not on the e370?

Noise, Fold and Phase, as far as know.
paults
Not true. Every E352 mode is on the E370.
Funky40
MATSmile wrote:
Funky40 wrote:
simliar question:
is that "morphing clouds mode" as used in the video above included in the E370 ?

It was one of the stretch goals of the ks campaign.

huh, now i´m excited hihi
ben_hex
paults wrote:
Stop goofing off on MW and edit that long E352 video.


That is on the agenda for today (and has been last few days between work) ... it's coming.
dooj88
paults wrote:
Stop goofing off on MW and edit that long E352 video.


Editing videos, shipping units to Control... There's lots of things we could be doing, but we're all taking a moment to unwind on muffs.. hihi
ben_hex
dooj88 wrote:
paults wrote:
Stop goofing off on MW and edit that long E352 video.


Editing videos, shipping units to Control... There's lots of things we could be doing, but we're all taking a moment to unwind off muffs.. hihi


haha! I needed coffee and and not to stare at Final Cut so I came back! smile
tau_seti
I got back from vacation and found my e352 from Control waiting for me.

I can see this is going to be an incredibly powerful module and will be among my most valuable ones. I HATE menu systems and modules (I can't bear to touch my Disting as a result), but this one is good. It's easy to navigate. It's very nice to meet Moses!

I am, however, very glad that I didn't sell my two e350s. They are very intuitive and flicking the switches up and down to switch banks or frequencies is considerably easier if you are performing than via the menu system. I think these modules will be good compliments. I'd advise big e350 fans to either hold off on selling their modules or even to pick up some at today's fire sale prices.

If you are older and have crummy vision, PaulS did NOT include a micro SD card in the unit. I thought he did and tried to take it out, until I shined more light on the module, put on my glasses and realized it was the micro SD slot. Luckily I didn't do any damage. :0

I am looking for the vocal formants that were used in the fab e352 voxcloud demo that PaulS put up 3 months ago. Were those off a custom wavetable? If so, I sure hope they wind up being posted on Synthtech site!

I'm looking forward to exploring this module in great depth.
paults
Thanks for the feedback. Comments below.

a) No uSD card is included. All the firmware is pre-loaded before shipping. The uSD is needed to do firmware updates (none so far) and to load in your own wavetables. Any size from 1GB to 128GB will work fine.

b) The wavetables in the E352 are the same as the E350. The vocal effects are in ROM B, rows 2 and 3.

c) You can load up to 8 presets and during performance load them in. The switch-over is pretty fast, on the order of 30ms (0.030sec).
tau_seti
Well that was stupid. Vocal is in bank B. I'm pretty sure Paul used cloud + morph mode. I'll try to get closer in later.
SB-SIX
Looks very cool. Is there a way to offset the pitch of output 2?
ben_hex
SB-SIX wrote:
Looks very cool. Is there a way to offset the pitch of output 2?


Nope, it's always a single oscillator with one pitch for them both. Other than in the 2 OP FM mode where out 1 becomes the modulating wave and out 2 is the modulated carrier wave.
mdoudoroff
Think of the two outputs on the E352 as similar to how a classic east coast oscillator will typically offer multiple simultaneous waveform outputs (triangle, saw, square...)

There is one other way, beside the 2-op, to have different pitches from each output: the wave tables themselves can produce different pitches off a base pitch (e.g. harmonic series), so if you’re clever, you can create two-note chords and such.
Zymos
Is it possible to block a whole thread, like the ignore user feature?
I only have so much willpower, and even less case space and $$. I could pretend that the ultimate wavetable oscillator doesn't even exist...
paults
Ras Thavas
paults wrote:


All this AND a "Flux Capacitor" mode? Right on...

Will be looking for Klystron Tube and Interocitor modes in final version : )
ben_hex
Feet up, coffee, a tipple or two here's the full overview video! smile

IT GOES WITHOUT SAYING (but here I am saying it!) watch this with good quality headphones or speakers. www.synthtech.com The E352 Cloud Terrarium is gorgeous! It’s made me gushy, head over heels, sonically loved it in the short time I’ve had with it. You may have seen the Drones N Stuff video here - - or the Morphing Clouds video here - - but here’s the full demo for the Eurorack module. I’ll let the video do the talking so grab a drink, get your feet up and enjoy. I’m aware it’s long but that’s because it offers lots to dive into and it all needed showing. Feel free to skip through the video. Timing links are below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFfG5UHBUws




00:42 Introduction overview
- History (E350 & E340)
- Mode overview
- Menu
- Settings
- Easter Eggs

05:23 Morph & Wavefold mode
- Wavetable banks
- Serge style wave folding (in stereo!)
- Morphing wavetables with folding - KILLER!
- Audio rate wave folding (oooooooooh yeah!)

10:29 Cloud mode updates
- E340 original settings/options
- New wavetable options for the cloud
- Chaos (band passed noise)
- Chaos bandwidth
- 2, 4 or 8 oscillators

13:19 Cloud & Morph mode
- The KILLER combo!
- Morphing wavetables & Cloud options

15:10 2 Op FM mode
- Modulation & Carrier waves
- 2 operator frequency modulation
- FM over wavetables … that morph!

23:32 Noise mode
- White noise
- Filtered white noise
- Moog style ladder filter with resonance
- Filtered pink noise
- Filtered crackle (lovely!)
- Pinging the resonant filter with crackles

29:27 Morph & Phase mode
- Phase inverting waves
- Mixing outputs
- Creating PWM (style modulation) over ANY wavetable
- Audio rate phase modulation

33:40 Glitch mode & settings
- Loosing that sweet creamy buttery morphing
- Stepping wavetable changes

36:23 LFOs (from ALL modes)
- Frequency ranges for high, medium and low settings
- Over 10Khz to over 12 minute cycles
- LFOs from morphing wavetables
- LFOs from clouds
- LFOs from folded or FM’d waves

39:55 Load/Save & Settings
- Loading
- Saving
- Visuals displays
- Final run through
dooj88
ben, you're a machine. thanks man!

SB-SIX wrote:
Looks very cool. Is there a way to offset the pitch of output 2?


starthief got the gold star for knocking this answer out of the park earlier in the thread.

Quote:
You can use FM mode and set the modulator ratio to 2 or .5 (there are seperate outputs for modulator and final).

Or create a wavetable that has 2x the cycles.

Or set an output to square and divide it with another module.

Or strictly if you're using triangles, use the wavefolder to double one of them.
_________________
suthnear
Another excellent demo, Ben. Seriously impressive module. And it's the exact same size as the shapeshifter so module fight time for me, I think.

When are these coming to England/Europe?
Umcorps
suthnear wrote:
Another excellent demo, Ben. Seriously impressive module. And it's the exact same size as the shapeshifter so module fight time for me, I think.


Hang on. Shapeshifter is 26hp. I thought this was 28hp?


:Edit: As you were. It is 26 as well d'oh!

Oh dear. That might be a bit problematic here. I couldn't work out a way to find a spare 28 hp. But 26 might be doable.

Bugger.
bemushroomed
Can't really decide if i'm gonna get this one or wait to next year and get funds for the E370 (good to see it available outside of KS - which is extremely expensive for us who would have to import the module!)

I had Waldorf NW-1 for a while, i wasn't overly impressed with the sound quality (i do believe it's 16 bit even, not 8), but overall it was pretty good.

I do enjoy my Studio Projects Quadnic quite a bit (more than NW-1 mainly due to 4 voices, chord modes etc) i have to say, though the sound quality is just 8 bit (which can sound fun and interesting sometimes).. Having 4 voices is a lot of fun nowadays with modules like Shifty and Arpitecht+expander.

Does this one have different wavetables than say, NW-1 (longer or whatever?) i tried doing my own wavetables for nw-1 and they sort of came out the same, very harsh no matter what, wasn't as worthwhile to do as i thought it would be. Maybe its possible to get better results here.
suthnear
The module ships with the same wavetables as the e350. There are loads of demos floating about for it should you wish to get a sense of its sound quality. The e350 is generally praised for its smoothness and the e352 - with its much more powerful processor - should be smoother still.
bemushroomed
suthnear wrote:
The module ships with the same wavetables as the e350. There are loads of demos floating about for it should you wish to get a sense of its sound quality. The e350 is generally praised for its smoothness and the e352 - with its much more powerful processor - should be smoother still.


Yes i've had a listen to a few demos, it sounds better than NW-1, to my ears at least. I guess this one compares more to something like Braids (which i think sounds really great).
suthnear
Waldorf have drifted some distance from their glory days, unfortunately. The nw-1 is apparently based on nave, rather than any of their previous classics.

If I do get an e352 I am definitely going to build a bank based on the classic waldorf waves...
starthief
bemushroomed wrote:
i tried doing my own wavetables for nw-1 and they sort of came out the same, very harsh no matter what, wasn't as worthwhile to do as i thought it would be. Maybe its possible to get better results here.


Between WaveEdit, Serum, and Audacity I've made/converted about 3 dozen wavetables for the E352/E370, about 1/4 of which I think are excellent (*), some pretty good, some strictly gimmicky. I also made a lot more that didn't turn out so well, especially at first -- there's a learning curve, especially when converting samples to wavetables. Just creating them directly in WaveEdit is easier.

Several of mine are 8 bit rather than 16 because that was the lazy, guaranteed-to-line-up way to convert from Serum. Export as .256, load as raw data in Audacity with a power-of-two sample rate (65536 or 32768 usually are best), export as WAV, import into WaveEdit.

(*) My best wavetables are one-trick ponies -- a single morph from point A to point B, which isn't ideal for XY morphing. The ROM banks are a lot more dense and full of different sweet spots.

(**) And when I say "my best wavetables" I mostly mean "wavetables made by other people, which I converted." Mr. Green
SB-SIX
SB-SIX wrote:
Looks very cool. Is there a way to offset the pitch of output 2?


starthief got the gold star for knocking this answer out of the park earlier in the thread.

Quote:
You can use FM mode and set the modulator ratio to 2 or .5 (there are seperate outputs for modulator and final).

Or create a wavetable that has 2x the cycles.

Or set an output to square and divide it with another module.

Or strictly if you're using triangles, use the wavefolder to double one of them.
_________________


I'll take that as a no smile (examples above only apply to octaves, but i find semitone offsets much more interesting)
matttech
Umcorps wrote:
suthnear wrote:
Another excellent demo, Ben. Seriously impressive module. And it's the exact same size as the shapeshifter so module fight time for me, I think.


Hang on. Shapeshifter is 26hp. I thought this was 28hp?


:Edit: As you were. It is 26 as well d'oh!

Oh dear. That might be a bit problematic here. I couldn't work out a way to find a spare 28 hp. But 26 might be doable.

Bugger.


hihi
paults
It's a single-frequency VCO, with 2 outputs (running 2 different algorithms)
pixelmechanic
"Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in"

Have been harbouring thoughts of selling the rest of my Euro for a while... I might juuusssttt hold off for a while until I've given one of these a spin...

Loved my E350 when I had it, sold it to a colleague to help fund Serge...
oinkbanana
On the e370, each input has only 2 inputs vs the 3 inputs from the e352, right?
On the e370 can you normal inputs from other channels to have more than 2 inputs (capped at the 8 inputs total)?
paults
Think of it this way: the E352 and the E370 have different A/D converters for the CVs. It's a fixed number.

In the E352, there are

1V/O
FM
Parameter X
Parameter Y
Parameter Z

it's an 8ch chip, with 6 of the 8 used.

In the E370, per VCO, we have:

1V/Oct
FM
Parameter X
Parameter Y

which is 16ch total, and we use a 16ch A/D chip.

The E370 allows 'sharing' (not 'stealing') of the 8 parameter CVs. Also, there are fixed, internal 'knobs' that goes from 0-99, that can be used.

The E370 allows more parameters to be controlled than the E352. The E352 always has 3 parameters per algorithm. The E370 can have more, say 4 or 5 parameters.

So, for example, in the E370 you want a Clould+Morph, that is 4 parameters:

Spread
Chaos
Chaos BW
Morph

The menu lets you pick *any* of the 8 CVs or a fixed value for these 4 parameters. Remember, these are *shared*, and not *stolen*, so you can have 1 CV drive all 16 parameters at once SlayerBadger!
oinkbanana
paults wrote:

The menu lets you pick *any* of the 8 CVs for these 4 parameters.

that's total sweetness. we're not worthy

Rockin' Banana! nanners It's peanut butter jelly time!
suthnear
This appears to be $460-ish in the US, but over $700 in Europe eek!
RGB
Would it be possible to get a bit more elaboration on the use of additional/customized waveforms loaded via the SD card? Is there any specific formatting needed can these files be integrated into the module the same as morph/cloud waveforms (wavefolding, morphing, etc)?
bemushroomed
suthnear wrote:
This appears to be $460-ish in the US, but over $700 in Europe eek!


sounds completely normal, same as all other US products when they are released in europe.. also US prices are almost never written with the VAT included, afaik, so its usually never fair to translate like that.
starthief
RGB wrote:
Would it be possible to get a bit more elaboration on the use of additional/customized waveforms loaded via the SD card? Is there any specific formatting needed can these files be integrated into the module the same as morph/cloud waveforms (wavefolding, morphing, etc)?


You can create banks using the free WaveEdit software (search the forum for demo videos, it's what lured me in to preordering). There's a "File" menu on the E352 where you load them from an SD card into banks USR A, B, or C which you can select in any mode just like the ROM banks.
Ras Thavas
Very nice indeed. I think, for me at least, this totally solves the concerns that arose after the E352's chip was upgraded. It seems to me like everyone wins here, Synth Tech, E352 users and E370 users.

Again, nicely done Paults and Emeb...

paults wrote:
Think of it this way: the E352 and the E370 have different A/D converters for the CVs. It's a fixed number.

In the E352, there are

1V/O
FM
Parameter X
Parameter Y
Parameter Z

it's an 8ch chip, with 6 of the 8 used.

In the E370, per VCO, we have:

1V/Oct
FM
Parameter X
Parameter Y

which is 16ch total, and we use a 16ch A/D chip.

The E370 allows 'sharing' (not 'stealing') of the 8 parameter CVs. Also, there are fixed, internal 'knobs' that goes from 0-99, that can be used.

The E370 allows more parameters to be controlled than the E352. The E352 always has 3 parameters per algorithm. The E370 can have more, say 4 or 5 parameters.

So, for example, in the E370 you want a Clould+Morph, that is 4 parameters:

Spread
Chaos
Chaos BW
Morph

The menu lets you pick *any* of the 8 CVs or a fixed value for these 4 parameters. Remember, these are *shared*, and not *stolen*, so you can have 1 CV drive all 16 parameters at once SlayerBadger!
geremyf
paults wrote:
Think of it this way: the E352 and the E370 have different A/D converters for the CVs. It's a fixed number.

In the E352, there are

1V/O
FM
Parameter X
Parameter Y
Parameter Z

it's an 8ch chip, with 6 of the 8 used.

In the E370, per VCO, we have:

1V/Oct
FM
Parameter X
Parameter Y

which is 16ch total, and we use a 16ch A/D chip.

The E370 allows 'sharing' (not 'stealing') of the 8 parameter CVs. Also, there are fixed, internal 'knobs' that goes from 0-99, that can be used.

The E370 allows more parameters to be controlled than the E352. The E352 always has 3 parameters per algorithm. The E370 can have more, say 4 or 5 parameters.

So, for example, in the E370 you want a Clould+Morph, that is 4 parameters:

Spread
Chaos
Chaos BW
Morph

The menu lets you pick *any* of the 8 CVs or a fixed value for these 4 parameters. Remember, these are *shared*, and not *stolen*, so you can have 1 CV drive all 16 parameters at once SlayerBadger!


That sounds great! Can each of the 16 parameters individually scale/offset a single CV?
mheumann
Got my E352 over the weekend and am loving it. But there's one issue. When I switch to the Noise mode and wiggle the X and Y knobs (changing the type of noise), it works for a minute or so but then stops working altogether. Either I don't get any signal out or I only get white noise. The first time it happened, I tried turning the system off and back on, but then the same issue reoccured. Has anyone experienced this problem? Any suggestions for dealing with it?
paults
Hmmm...this is a first report of this issue. PM'd.
RGB
starthief wrote:
RGB wrote:
Would it be possible to get a bit more elaboration on the use of additional/customized waveforms loaded via the SD card? Is there any specific formatting needed can these files be integrated into the module the same as morph/cloud waveforms (wavefolding, morphing, etc)?


You can create banks using the free WaveEdit software (search the forum for demo videos, it's what lured me in to preordering). There's a "File" menu on the E352 where you load them from an SD card into banks USR A, B, or C which you can select in any mode just like the ROM banks.


Thanks for steering me in the direction of WaveEdit!

I just watched the preview videos on the website.... OHH BOY! YAWZA!
screaming goo yo w00t SlayerBadger!

I already pre-ordered one but had I known this I would have done it sooner.
brandonlogic
spent some decent time with the noise mode (awesome for percussion sounds) didnt get the lockup issue noted above.

great first impressions!
first patch with the e352. one minute demo. E352 only sound source. Out 1 going through aperture lpg, out 2 going through sob filter and delay. X and y modulated by lfo's and z modulated by Turing machine. Simple 4 note sequence going into the V/oct https://www.instagram.com/p/BYrkf3YFZcw/
paults
re: the Noise thing mentioned

The first 4 noise positions are run through a 24dB LPF. If you are on a low-density setting (like Crackle), and you have the COARSE knob cranked all the way down (the filter cutoff), the output would appear dead.
mheumann
paults wrote:
Hmmm...this is a first report of this issue. PM'd.


Just thought I'd report back: it was a user error issue, which makes sense because everything else was working perfectly. Paul gave me some tips on how best to use the noise feature, and everything is working as it should. But huge props to Paul for being so damn helpful and friendly. It's peanut butter jelly time!
suthnear
bemushroomed wrote:
suthnear wrote:
This appears to be $460-ish in the US, but over $700 in Europe eek!


sounds completely normal, same as all other US products when they are released in europe.. also US prices are almost never written with the VAT included, afaik, so its usually never fair to translate like that.


Except:

Control has the e352 for $459 and the shapeshifter for $529
Schneiders has the shapeshifter for €579 but the e352 for €659 (both VAT inclusive)

So in the US the e352 is cheaper than the shapeshifter but in Europe it is much more expensive...
bemushroomed
suthnear wrote:

Control has the e352 for $459 and the shapeshifter for $529
Schneiders has the shapeshifter for €579 but the e352 for €659 (both VAT inclusive)

So in the US the e352 is cheaper than the shapeshifter but in Europe it is much more expensive...


..in the 2 shops you compared yes (odd, i agree), might not be like that overall though for these two modules.

Overall US modules (or synths, whatever) has a lower price in US than in EU, nothing strange there. Also Schneidersladen aren't exactly the cheapest shop in EU, i've seen them being around 15-20% more expensive sometimes than other shops here.. They're good to deal with though.
matttech
suthnear wrote:
bemushroomed wrote:
suthnear wrote:
This appears to be $460-ish in the US, but over $700 in Europe eek!


sounds completely normal, same as all other US products when they are released in europe.. also US prices are almost never written with the VAT included, afaik, so its usually never fair to translate like that.


Except:

Control has the e352 for $459 and the shapeshifter for $529
Schneiders has the shapeshifter for €579 but the e352 for €659 (both VAT inclusive)

So in the US the e352 is cheaper than the shapeshifter but in Europe it is much more expensive...


It certainly wouldn't be that expensive with me. Maybe they were guessing price ahead of time, or made an error?
bucketbrigade
Mine arrived yesterday. Have to say I'm very impressed so far. I've never heard anything like the sounds I'm getting out of Morph+Cloud mode. Only a few hours in but dreaming of what can be done with this thing.

Also the menu system is nice, very fast and the encoder feels really solid. Very easy to navigate between modes. I wish there was a way to switch ROM banks while looking at the wave visualization but it only takes a moment to move back and forth to the system menu.

Excited to try making my own wavetables. Being able to design your own bank to sweep through must open up all kinds of possibilities.

A simple first patch, a sequence with a little reverb and the two outputs in Morph mode going to a DLD: instagram vid
emeb
bucketbrigade wrote:
...the menu system is nice, very fast and the encoder feels really solid. Very easy to navigate between modes. I wish there was a way to switch ROM banks while looking at the wave visualization but it only takes a moment to move back and forth to the system menu.


Not sure if this info is out there or not, but there's a shortcut to move from waves to settings: While in waves or lissajous or visuals or eyecandy, long-press the encoder button (hold down for about 1sec and don't release) and you'll magically pop back to the settings page. When you're done there, long press returns to the page you started from.

This is a little UI shortcut that we added at the request of some beta testers and it helps things go a bit faster.
bucketbrigade
emeb wrote:
bucketbrigade wrote:
...the menu system is nice, very fast and the encoder feels really solid. Very easy to navigate between modes. I wish there was a way to switch ROM banks while looking at the wave visualization but it only takes a moment to move back and forth to the system menu.


Not sure if this info is out there or not, but there's a shortcut to move from waves to settings: While in waves or lissajous or visuals or eyecandy, long-press the encoder button (hold down for about 1sec and don't release) and you'll magically pop back to the settings page. When you're done there, long press returns to the page you started from.

This is a little UI shortcut that we added at the request of some beta testers and it helps things go a bit faster.


Ah! Cool, thats good to know.
matttech
Divkid's video just had me going eek! eek! eek! eek! eek!
sduck
Wait until he gets the e370. The video will be 4 times as long.
Shwaj
emeb wrote:
bucketbrigade wrote:
...the menu system is nice, very fast and the encoder feels really solid. Very easy to navigate between modes. I wish there was a way to switch ROM banks while looking at the wave visualization but it only takes a moment to move back and forth to the system menu.


Not sure if this info is out there or not, but there's a shortcut to move from waves to settings: While in waves or lissajous or visuals or eyecandy, long-press the encoder button (hold down for about 1sec and don't release) and you'll magically pop back to the settings page. When you're done there, long press returns to the page you started from.

This is a little UI shortcut that we added at the request of some beta testers and it helps things go a bit faster.


thumbs up

Please be sure to document this in the final manual; it doesn't seem to be in the two-page PDF on the product page.
ben_hex
sduck wrote:
Wait until he gets the e370. The video will be 4 times as long.


I just repitch and layer this one up four times so it's all chords right?
MARK27
ben_hex wrote:
sduck wrote:
Wait until he gets the e370. The video will be 4 times as long.


I just repitch and layer this one up four times so it's all chords right?


Goddamn that DivKid is funny!

d'oh!

MY ASS IS BLEEDING
joskery
MARK27 wrote:
ben_hex wrote:
sduck wrote:
Wait until he gets the e370. The video will be 4 times as long.


I just repitch and layer this one up four times so it's all chords right?


Goddamn that DivKid is funny!

d'oh!

MY ASS IS BLEEDING


come on, man.. be nice.
MARK27
I'm just playing! Maybe that doesn't come through in text.

I admire Ben as much as anybody (despite the fact that he has cost me 1000's of dollars through his videos).
bemushroomed
it was very obvious you were joking around.

I agree, another excellent video (well, videos) and yes it can be very costly to watch them.. The best way to not spend money on eurorack is to forget about muffwiggler (and parts of youtube) for a while to avoid GAS Mr. Green i was gonna do that, but then i got bored and now i'm like 550+ euro poorer again..
MARK27
That is the truth!

Then again, everytime I feel impatient waiting for my e352, I watch Ben's demo video again.

I've watched his damn e352 video like 10 times since he posted it!

hyper hyper Rockin' Banana!
joskery
Sorry, I guess I should lighten up d'oh! carry on!
danfastlikeflan
Kind of off topic. But if anyone bought directly from synth tech, did you get an email confirmation from them or only from pay pal?
MARK27
All I got was a receipt from PayPal.

Nothing else.

w00t
Funky40
from page 9

MATSmile wrote:
brandonlogic wrote:

So are there still any modes on the e352 that are not on the e370?

Noise, Fold and Phase, as far as know.

paults wrote:
Not true. Every E352 mode is on the E370.

so this has changed ?
i remember the discussions on that matter lol


what i personally like to see on the E370 are Two-voice modes ( not necessarily other/new modes) :
steal some CV inputs from voice 3+4 and give them to voice 1+2.
make output 3+4, one a Sinewave for ext. FM modulations , the other a pulse for ext. Sync purposes,
both with the ability to choose a (clock/pitch) division/ multiplier per menu.

just my thoughts, and possibly the wrong thread to post. sorry
Drakhe
danfastlikeflan wrote:
Kind of off topic. But if anyone bought directly from synth tech, did you get an email confirmation from them or only from pay pal?


Paypal confirm on the payment, and Paul will contact you as soon as he ships to communicate the tracking number. Don't forget its going to take another bunch of weeks before all are shipped.
emeb
Funky40 wrote:
from page 9

MATSmile wrote:
brandonlogic wrote:

So are there still any modes on the e352 that are not on the e370?

Noise, Fold and Phase, as far as know.

paults wrote:
Not true. Every E352 mode is on the E370.

so this has changed ?
i remember the discussions on that matter lol


This is still true insofar as the hardware limits of the E370 permit - it is a four-voice oscillator with 1V/Oct, FM, 2 CV and Sync in and one output per voice. E352 modes that require more resources than this will be pared back, or require some compromises. In no case do any E370 modes have more than one output for example. E352 modes that require more than two CV inputs will require that some parameters are fixed in the setup, or are "stolen" or ganged up with CVs from other voices.

Quote:

what i personally like to see on the E370 are Two-voice modes ( not necessarily other/new modes) :
steal some CV inputs from voice 3+4 and give them to voice 1+2.
make output 3+4, one a Sinewave for ext. FM modulations , the other a pulse for ext. Sync purposes,
both with the ability to choose a (clock/pitch) division/ multiplier per menu.


The E370 firmware design process is pretty much closed to new feature requests at this point. We've hit the original Kickstarter feature list and in order to meet the shipping schedule we're moving into beta testing shortly with a focus on usability and reliability.

Quote:
just my thoughts, and possibly the wrong thread to post. sorry


It would probably be better to continue this over in one of the E370 threads. Perhaps this one -> https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=185106&highlight=
oinkbanana
Funky40 wrote:

what i personally like to see on the E370 are Two-voice modes ( not necessarily other/new modes) :
steal some CV inputs from voice 3+4 and give them to voice 1+2.

you can do this with the e370. on p.10 paul has said that any voice can borrow cv inputs from ANY input.
so you could easily program 2 voices to use 4cv inputs each and abandon cv control of the other two voices.

paults wrote:
The E370 allows 'sharing' (not 'stealing') of the 8 parameter CVs. Also, there are fixed, internal 'knobs' that goes from 0-99, that can be used.

The E370 allows more parameters to be controlled than the E352. The E352 always has 3 parameters per algorithm. The E370 can have more, say 4 or 5 parameters.

So, for example, in the E370 you want a Clould+Morph, that is 4 parameters:

Spread
Chaos
Chaos BW
Morph

The menu lets you pick *any* of the 8 CVs or a fixed value for these 4 parameters. Remember, these are *shared*, and not *stolen*, so you can have 1 CV drive all 16 parameters at once SlayerBadger!




Funky40 wrote:
make output 3 a Sinewave for ext. FM modulations
ability to choose a pitchdivision/ multiplier per menu

You can easily design a wavetable where each sequential entry is a multiple sine
first entry is 1 sine (base frequency), second entry is octave up, third entry is two octaves up, etc...
just don't morph/cloud/chaos it.
it's not a direct "menu option", but it is as a waveform selection!
what more do you want?




Funky40 wrote:
make output 4, a pulse for ext. Sync purposes,
both with the ability to choose a (clock/pitch) division/ multiplier per menu.

again, just design your wavetable accordingly.
might already be one designed for this: Check out the bank called Clock Multiplier 0.1 (mdoudoroff) in the drop down menu from https://waveeditonline.com/
Funky40
ok, i come back to this at a later moment in the E370 thread.
thanks both, emeb and oinkbanana
thumbs up

btw. @emeb:
the Modcan VCDO/FMVDO ( i have both btw.) is still one of my fav VCOs ever !! ( i know you´ve donne the FW there also )
so MUCH sound to have vs. the directness to get that.
looks like the E352 is now the first VCO to take this one further and overtrumping the VCDO.
next generation VCDO it seems.
( just that the VCDO unleashes its real potential only when you sequenz it with lots of CVs going on, ..under control. controlled from a Cirkon for example, or silent way, etc. )
applause

still totally stoked by Bens Demos and the E352 sounds ( watched the big one yesterday )
starthief
Something I found that may confuse people: if you have folders on your SD card, the File menu shows the folder names in the same color as the "EPROM Saved" setting.

This is a really good reason not to set both "Background" and "EPROM Saved" to, for instance, black. smile
emeb
starthief wrote:
Something I found that may confuse people: if you have folders on your SD card, the File menu shows the folder names in the same color as the "EPROM Saved" setting.

This is a really good reason not to set both "Background" and "EPROM Saved" to, for instance, black. smile


You people. I don't even...

d'oh!
sduck
emeb wrote:
starthief wrote:
Something I found that may confuse people: if you have folders on your SD card, the File menu shows the folder names in the same color as the "EPROM Saved" setting.

This is a really good reason not to set both "Background" and "EPROM Saved" to, for instance, black. smile


You people. I don't even...

d'oh!


Wait until they find the hidden konami code thingie that you snuck in there...
chaosick
ben_hex wrote:
sduck wrote:
Wait until he gets the e370. The video will be 4 times as long.


I just repitch and layer this one up four times so it's all chords right?


Yeah, unless I'm missing something at present e370 seems about 2x as big and expensive as e352 but almost 4x as capable?
I'm curious how you or anyone else would compare e352 to Erica Synths Wavetable--I was set on this one until I found out about E352. Obviously quite different in terms of size and capabilities/control mechanisms..but the ES Wavetable is NOT *so* much cheaper than the E352..
ben_hex
MARK27 bemushroomed joskery

All good, I deserved a good sarcastic response with my silly post! smile all good fun.

Giving it a more "serious" twist for four voices I do REALLY like stacking up mono synths 3 or 4 times to make chord tones. Composition-wise it makes me think about voice arranging and less about block chords (more like writing for a string quartet etc). Production wise too a sightly different flavor (mod speed, detune amount, distortion levels etc) on each multitrack take / voice sounds ace. Downsize is how time consuming it can be.
starthief
ben_hex wrote:
Composition-wise it makes me think about voice arranging and less about block chords (more like writing for a string quartet etc).


When I want to do interesting string parts beyond just simple pads, I do the same. Combining samples with physical modeling and synths really makes it come alive, and you can get some nice Uncanny Valley stuff going on if some of those parts are on the cheesy side Mr. Green

chaosick wrote:
I'm curious how you or anyone else would compare e352 to Erica Synths Wavetable


Like a Tesla vs. a Honda Civic. The Civic is a decent car, but... yeah.

To be fair, the E352 doesn't have Bitch Rush.

chaosick
ben_hex wrote:
MARK27 bemushroomed joskery

All good, I deserved a good sarcastic response with my silly post! smile all good fun.

Giving it a more "serious" twist for four voices I do REALLY like stacking up mono synths 3 or 4 times to make chord tones. Composition-wise it makes me think about voice arranging and less about block chords (more like writing for a string quartet etc). Production wise too a sightly different flavor (mod speed, detune amount, distortion levels etc) on each multitrack take / voice sounds ace. Downsize is how time consuming it can be.


Yeah, I had an insight when someone made the analogy of Bach arranging in terms of individual voices for the bigger picture/chords. As far as the acoustic forms of music I have the most experience with and have spent the most hours listening to, jazz and flamenco both have a very "modular" approach, since it's often the case that a trio or a quartet is used to give a much bigger picture--chords suggested by variations in melody and parts of harmony overlapped and used--chords don't have to be simultaneous or hit all the notes in that chord to be impactful--listen to any good jazz horn player or even pianists.
chaosick
starthief wrote:
ben_hex wrote:
Composition-wise it makes me think about voice arranging and less about block chords (more like writing for a string quartet etc).


When I want to do interesting string parts beyond just simple pads, I do the same. Combining samples with physical modeling and synths really makes it come alive, and you can get some nice Uncanny Valley stuff going on if some of those parts are on the cheesy side Mr. Green

chaosick wrote:
I'm curious how you or anyone else would compare e352 to Erica Synths Wavetable


Like a Tesla vs. a Honda Civic. The Civic is a decent car, but... yeah.

To be fair, the E352 doesn't have Bitch Rush.



Yeah, I don't own any non-modular synths anymore..the idea of a mono timbral polysynth sounds really boring to me now--why are all the new ones like this? If I ever got a polysynth it would have to be one of the older ones that have split voicing or I think I'd be really annoyed by having spent so much money on essentially just one tone at a time.

Cool, thanks, good to know. In that case, the Wavetable seems overpriced relative to the E352, or perhaps the E352 seems underpriced...or I guess the E352 is overpriced to the E370? Or I guess Cwejman is overpriced compared to everything unless you actually own it and therefore say stuff like my friend does, "if you have the money, it's worth it" w00t
mdoudoroff
Quote:

To be fair, the E352 doesn't have Bitch Rush.


Ha!

To be truly fair, the Erica Black Wavetable VCO seems to be a pretty darn good little oscillator, it’s making people happy, and Erica seems to be adding value to it. It’s also relatively compact and affordable and that sub out is pretty cool. I am confident it suits different priorities and has a comfortable future.
bemushroomed
"****UPDATE****
Due to the overwhelming (positive) response for the E352 Cloud Terrarium, I will have to push out the schedule for more Stinker R&D.
a) I'm NOT cancelling it
b) I'm just going to wait until more E352s are shipped, and I get the E370 into beta testing.
So when will they be available?
Early 2018."

Does this mean both models or just E370? AFAIK E370 was always scheduled for early 2018.
paults
They = the Stinker, NOT the E352/E370
bemushroomed
what's the "stinker"? I'm clueless lol
sduck
It's a power supply. That smells bad.
paults
Search the Euro forum for Skunkworx
bemushroomed
Alrighty then spinning
Bob Borries
The WaveEdit software is incredible it works as expected and goes way beyond what other wavetable editors I've encountered. There is one thing I wish it had... interpolation

I know the E352 does this already in hardware, but when creating wavetables and importing single cycles I sometimes come up short and would still like to fill out the complete wavetable, plus I could put effects on top.



Is this possible?
Ras Thavas
Seconded! Something like posted, or "Interpolate Selected Cycles" even. Zebra's wave cycle editor does this and it's really helpful in sound design.

Bob Borries wrote:
The WaveEdit software is incredible it works as expected and goes way beyond what other wavetable editors I've encountered. There is one thing I wish it had... interpolation

I know the E352 does this already in hardware, but when creating wavetables and importing single cycles I sometimes come up short and would still like to fill out the complete wavetable, plus I could and effects on top.



Is this possible?


Something like this, or "Interpolate Selected Cycles" even. Zebra's wave cycle editor does this and it's really helpful in sound design.
suthnear
There is a thread about wave edit already: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2647773

I put a link to your suggestion there
bucketbrigade
Curious if anyone had tips on making your own wavetables... what's good source material, what are some of the things you can accomplish with wavetable synthesis that are unique. I've had a piston Honda for a couple years so I have a feel for what's possible but I've never had the ability to make my own wavetables until now. It seems like I could design wavetables to accomplish specific goals if I knew what I was doing... although just screwing around has led to some cool stuff too.

Of the ones available on wave edit online I'm kind of in love with the cello sample. Some very cool timbres morphing through that one.
starthief
As far as I've been able to work out, there are a few useful ways to approach creating wavetables:

-- A specific morph from A to B, designed for envelope modulation. Many, but not all, of these are simply shortcuts to sounds other combinations of modules already produce. They make good source material for cloud/wavefolding/phasing/FM etc. Examples: overdriving a sine; adding harmonics additive synthesis; morphing from triangle to saw; filter sweeps; quantization. Of course you can combine multiple changes during the same morph.

-- You can also do the above with some bits of acoustic samples that rapidly change over time, like plucks, mallets, percussion etc. Using different envelope shapes and speeds can give cool results. Working with samples is harder IMHO because you usually will want phases to line up cleanly, so here's where time spent in a wave editor pulling out individual cycles might pay off.

- For E352/E370, the first mode lets you morph in two dimensions, so you can take advantage of that either with two morphs, or one morph applied to different waves, different octaves of the same content...

-- Noise in a wavetable is no longer noise but a fixed, complex shape. So taking a simple wave and gradually adding noise, then making a wavetable from it can give you some cool results.

- Instead of designing for an envelope, design for an LFO or noise. PWM or subtle variations over time (such as several single cycles from an acoustic instrument)

- Just put a bunch of waves in a pile, preferably with the same general phase offset from one to the next. When you use it in a patch, you find a sweet spot in the bank and modulate around it smoothly by a SMALL amount, and/or make larger stepped jumps.

- Samples designed to be played back with a saw/triangle LFO at a fixed rate. They won't sound entirely like samples because the pitch relationships are mangled, but you can get cool results anyway. You can also vary the LFO shape, speed, range, direction etc. or use the above "find a sweet spot" technique.

Getting into theoretical stuff I haven't tried:

- Since the E352 can go quite slow and has two outputs: you could encode gate/trigger rhythms or CV sequences in one bank, synchronized with clock pulses (or envelopes) in the other.

- You could build a Euclidean pattern bank full of triggers or envelopes, where X is the fill amount and Y is the rotation.

- Each frame in the bank could be a fixed DC offset, giving you a 64-point lookup table for incoming CV independent of the clock rate. You could use that with audio rate CV for waveshaping external signals (like the Piston Honda), or self-patched to sequence the pitch or morph the other output.
starthief
I uploaded an 8-step Euclidean pattern table. It works, but in practice it's pretty goofy compared to using Frames or o_C or an actual Euclidean sequencer.


Another thing you can do with wavetables: set up smooth transitions between FM indices, instead of moving FM frequency through all the inharmonic stuff in between. On a DX7 you could do this with algorithm 5:



Op3 fades in as op1 fades out, then op5 fades in as op3 fades out.

In WaveEdit you can extend this to 8 different ratios on one axis and still have a second axis to morph in (index maybe, or something else interesting).
It's a different effect from just modulating the ratio in 2-op FM mode, since the transition between them is smooth.
mdoudoroff
Thank you starthief for the insights. And the banks!
bucketbrigade
Yeah, thank you starthief! There are enough insights in that post to keep me busy for a year at least we're not worthy
CF3
How are we doing with shipments of E352's?

Cheers Guinness ftw!
paults
All E352s ordered since 4Aug have been shipped (black panel), plus an additional 56 silver panels to dealers.

I have been working on the E370 logistics (over 100,000 parts to buy/warehouse/assemble) but will wrap that up this week and start back on E352 orders.

If you ordered in August, you should get your module by Oct 19th.

If you ordered in September, by the end of October.

WaveEdit will be released on Oct. 15th.
Triggerhappy
Hi Paul,

glad to hear that E352s are shipping!

I ordered one already June 20 (black panel) and havn't heard anything yet, no confirmation or anything. Paypal has drawn the money. I emailed you Paul on paul@synthtech.com for confirmation this Friday with all my details, but have not got any answer yet. Please have a look!

I am sure everything is alright.
Cheers!
paults
PM'd
bemerritt
paults wrote:
All E352s ordered since 4Aug have been shipped (black panel), plus an additional 56 silver panels to dealers.

I have been working on the E370 logistics (over 100,000 parts to buy/warehouse/assemble) but will wrap that up this week and start back on E352 orders.

If you ordered in August, you should get your module by Oct 19th.

If you ordered in September, by the end of October.

WaveEdit will be released on Oct. 15th.


Anyone know of one shipped to a dealer that hasn't been preordered?!
jvt
bemerritt wrote:
Anyone know of one shipped to a dealer that hasn't been preordered?!

I pre-ordered through Detroit Modular last month. My order just arrived Saturday. Their web site now lists them as "Out of Stock" so it's possible whatever inventory they received is already depleted due to early orders. I would assume stock should start showing up elsewhere very soon.
paults
I have shipped to about 50% of the dealers that ordered, and then...about 50% of WHAT they ordered. sad banana

The E370 Beta Release/WaveEdit full release took time away from E352 shipping (I'm up to 150 units shipped in the last 6 weeks, which for ME is a LOT).

I'm marching steadily onward, both black-panel orders and dealer orders.
bemerritt
Thanks for the update!
Bob Borries
I have one on order, but I assumed the E-352 like the E-350 had XY scanning and Z scanning on the same bank. This is not correct, the E-352 can have one bank on XY and another completely different bank on Z. Many of the modes can have different banks on each output, to me it was kind of confusing, so I made this chart with outputs to try to clear things up.



http://www.vo1t.com/Euro/Illustrated/E-352illustratedManual.pdf
dooj88
an illustrated cheat sheet for the synthesis technology e352 cloud terrarium!

CF3
Bob Borries

That's great! Although the E352 does have a "help" page. It's a little inconvenient having to move back and forth while I memorize the mode assignments. This will be a big time saver.

Cheers for this Guinness ftw!
starthief
You missed some noise types: Filtered White, Filtered Pink, Filtered Clocked, Filtered Crackle, White, Pink, Clocked, Crackle

Within the Crackle ranges, the knob/CV controls the density. E.g. at "7" on the panel, there are just a handful of crackles per second, but at max it's almost white noise. Not sure how you'd fit that on the cheat sheet though grin
Bob Borries
starthief wrote:
You missed some noise types: Filtered White, Filtered Pink, Filtered Clocked, Filtered Crackle, White, Pink, Clocked, Crackle

Within the Crackle ranges, the knob/CV controls the density. E.g. at "7" on the panel, there are just a handful of crackles per second, but at max it's almost white noise. Not sure how you'd fit that on the cheat sheet though grin


Thanks starthief, I'm also missing the "Frequency Range" and "Phase Interpolation" settings... any idea what those might be?
paults
Wonder why I can't see the chart?

Frequency Ranges: High, Mid, and Low

Phase Interpolation: On or Off
Bob Borries
paults wrote:
Wonder why I can't see the chart?

Frequency Ranges: High, Mid, and Low

Phase Interpolation: On or Off


Thanks for the info, I made some changes and hopefully, you can see it now.
suthnear
The e352 is incredible. So many sounds in there. Terrific work paults and collaborators
Bob Borries

Bob Borries
LFO_Playground.wav
A collection of fun shapes for LFO modulation. The basic waveshapes are here as well as shapes rarely seen. Tilted sinewaves, vintage responses, wow & flutter, or glitchy all designed to morph into each other. Inverting will give you upsidedown shapes (Ramp becomes Sawtooth) and some are usable at audio rates.
wellurban
Thanks, Bob, they look excellent! I've been kicking around ideas for interesting LFO shapes, and in combination with the standard LFO-focused banks, these will provide lots to explore (at least when my E352 finally arrives).
matttech
suthnear wrote:
The e352 is incredible. So many sounds in there. Terrific work paults and collaborators


thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up
brandonlogic
wellurban wrote:
Thanks, Bob, they look excellent! I've been kicking around ideas for interesting LFO shapes, and in combination with the standard LFO-focused banks, these will provide lots to explore (at least when my E352 finally arrives).


yeah these are great thanks!!!

here a little demo of how some of them sound!! https://www.instagram.com/p/BaU5mjxlKNu/
starthief
Nice collection Bob smile I think they're all pretty useful at audio rates, and quite a few happen to be arranged nicely for morphing purposes in one or both dimensions thumbs up
paults
These are great! Please upload them to 'the cloud repository' in WaveEdit.
Bob Borries
paults wrote:
These are great! Please upload them to 'the cloud repository' in WaveEdit.


Will do
pyjamarama
anyone here contributing to the online collection of tables on the wave edit software? I'm surprised it hasn't been flooded over there although I suppose it's still early days.
emergingstates
Hi guys i can't get the e352 to see my sd card, it's not usd is that the problem maybe?

i've tried formatting it Mac osx and Fat 32.

any help would be great thanks smile
CF3
emergingstates wrote:
Hi guys i can't get the e352 to see my sd card, it's not usd is that the problem maybe?

i've tried formatting it Mac osx and Fat 32.

any help would be great thanks smile


My E352 sees the sd card but, locks up while browsing files to where I have to reboot constantly.

Also, as far as naming goes, how many characters does it support? Eight?
paults
Use the free, cross-platform WaveEdit to write the files to the uSD card. Files (a wavetable or a full bank) must be in a specific format, using a specific naming convention.

Yes, it only reads 8.3 file names, and must have the .WAV extension

WaveEdit is available here

WaveEdit
paults
Also note that:

a) the card has to be 32GB or smaller, in a FAT32 format
b) the WAV files MUST be in the root directory or 1 sub-dir down
c) the root directory MUST contain <255 files total
Dogma
You know Ive largely avoided listening to demos of your new modules Paul because what ive heard is so good and I am so broke....Def next level stuff. Both UI and sound quality
CF3
paults wrote:
Also note that:

a) the card has to be 32GB or smaller, in a FAT32 format
b) the WAV files MUST be in the root directory or 1 sub-dir down
c) the root directory MUST contain <255 files total


This must be what is happening for me. I have a (bad) habit of make folders for everything. Will dump all my wavetables into the root folder. Will have to keep most on the computer to stay sane. I've got a LOT, hence the folders

Guinness ftw!
psyclone001
Just received the E352 and it is fantastic
I do have a request though.
As the osc is digital I appreciate the onboard quantisation, but I would love to also have an option to lock the tuning of the oscillator.
Klavis twin waves for example have just incorporated this in their latest firmware update and it is great feature.
Awesome module though thumbs up
paults
Quote:
I would love to also have an option to lock the tuning of the oscillator.


I do not know what you mean by this.

I can't 'ignore' signals into the 1V/Oct jack, if that is what you are saying. They are electrically summed before the A/D.

And it's not 'fantastic', to me. What's the point of a fixed frequency? Just....ummmm....set the panel pots and unplug 1V/Oct jack, and set the FM pot to min. There, it's a fixed frequency Rockin' Banana!
bc3
Asked the same thing about locking the tuning and Mr. Paul said nope not possible. Bummer but... hmmm.....
starthief
paults wrote:
I can't 'ignore' signals into the 1V/Oct jack, if that is what you are saying.


I think it's the opposite (something I asked about during beta) -- "ignore" the knob but keep using the jack, so you can lock in the tuning without worrying about bumping the knob. But

paults wrote:
They are electrically summed before the A/D.


I wound up switching to narrower, if less sharp-looking, knobs which give my balloon-shaped fingers a bit more space, and I don't knock the tuning out accidentally as much anymore.
JohnLRice
starthief wrote:
paults wrote:
I can't 'ignore' signals into the 1V/Oct jack, if that is what you are saying.


I think it's the opposite (something I asked about during beta) -- "ignore" the knob but keep using the jack, so you can lock in the tuning without worrying about bumping the knob.
That was my guess too. I'm assuming the other VCO he's referring to may use encoders for tuning so it would be relatively simple to tell the software to use the current value and ignore any updates until "unlocked". Since the E352 uses a standard pot, I'm not sure it's settings can be 'ignored'.
psyclone001
starthief wrote:
paults wrote:
I can't 'ignore' signals into the 1V/Oct jack, if that is what you are saying.


I think it's the opposite (something I asked about during beta) -- "ignore" the knob but keep using the jack, so you can lock in the tuning without worrying about bumping the knob. But

paults wrote:
They are electrically summed before the A/D.


I wound up switching to narrower, if less sharp-looking, knobs which give my balloon-shaped fingers a bit more space, and I don't knock the tuning out accidentally as much anymore.


Yes exactly. Once tuned, the pitch from the pitch knob can be ignored, but the osc can still receive pitch CV from the 1v/o input. Prevents the pitch knob from accidentally being bumped while tweaking the knobs underneath.
For reference Klavis Twin Waves have just done it with latest firmware.
Doesn’t seem like it is technically possible here though hmmm.....
dooj88
How long does the update take? Been stuck on this screen for a while. I don't want to power off if it's still working. Clicking and rotating the encoder has no effect. What do?

Sorry, dunno why muffs randomly rotates pics sometimes..
Vortico
It shouldn't get stuck there, but powering it off and on again is safe since it is impossible to "brick" the bootloader, and it looks like it successfully updated the firmware anyway.
paults
If you have a uSD card over 32GB, that is NOT in FAT32, this may happen. It's been discussed in prior posts.
dooj88
User error as usual. Don't forget to extract the zip file. d'oh! oops

Thanks for the quick response Paul.
rembrandtvanrijn
Sorry if this is a silly question but I'm thinking about trading up the Black Wavetable VCO for this but enjoy the sub oscillator out on the Erica, can this output subs?
starthief
rembrandtvanrijn wrote:
Sorry if this is a silly question but I'm thinking about trading up the Black Wavetable VCO for this but enjoy the sub oscillator out on the Erica, can this output subs?


You can do it in 2-Op FM mode, by setting output 1 to square and Parameter Y to the right ratio.

In other modes you can set one of the outputs to square and use a clock divider. (Though in Cloud modes, you get cloudy squares that are likely to confuse clock dividers and they kind of go silent intermittently.)

Or you can build custom wavetables that are an octave or two higher than the base frequency and then use the other as a sub smile
paults
The beauty of the E352/WaveEdit is that OUT 2 does not always have to be:

a) a -1OCT sub
b) a square wave output

You can load in a 'master out' wave with 12 zero crossings (say 22 samples/cycle, with the 12th cycle a bit shorter), then have subsequent wavetables be multiple like 7 cycles (-a fifth) and so on. So you can have any waves come out the 2 outputs, in fact they can be different shapes (like the -1OCT can be a saw and the main pitch can be a Tri).
Worwell
E-352 at the heart of a patch.

E-352, Omnisphere choir through Warps, Plonk through Rainmaker, and all through Erbe-Verb feedback patch + Hexinverter drums.

Worwell
Another E-352 patch this time in noise mode into Elements external ins and fm, also to Kinks sample and hold modulating Elements. This mode is a great addition to an excellent module.

SmokyClap
Hey guys. I’m using my dominion 1’s cv out to the e352s 1v/oct so I can play it with the dominion keys but it won’t track to even 2 octaves. I’m running it thru dominion external in and layering a triangle from dominion 1 octave below for subs and it goes out of tune around 2 octaves up. Does anyone have a clue as to why?
paults
You need to get a digital voltmeter and check the voltage coming out of the Dominion. See if there really is 1.00V (yes, to that accuracy) from C to C.

It's OK if the voltages on each C are not 1, 2, 3V, etc. You are looking for a difference of a volt.
operator808
paults,

any chance the e352 will eventually have chord mode? i'm probably gonna dive in regardless in about a week, but chord mode would be just stellar.
SmokyClap
paults wrote:
You need to get a digital voltmeter and check the voltage coming out of the Dominion. See if there really is 1.00V (yes, to that accuracy) from C to C.

It's OK if the voltages on each C are not 1, 2, 3V, etc. You are looking for a difference of a volt.


So the voltage doesn’t matter as long as there’s exactly 1.00V between each C. I’ll chekc it out and report back.
paults
There is a blue, 22-turn 1V/Oct trimmer on the top edge of the pc board. It is factory set for tracking 10 octaves with 1.00V between octaves.

If your driving voltage is say 1.044V/Octave, then that trimmer has to be adjusted, OR the voltage scale in the source has to be adjusted.
Drakhe
operator808 wrote:
paults,

any chance the e352 will eventually have chord mode? i'm probably gonna dive in regardless in about a week, but chord mode would be just stellar.


How is the e352 going to sound chords? It's a single osc (yes it has 2 outputs, but they are linked pitch wise)

The only way your going to get chords out of it is when you sample them and create 'chord' wavetables...


the e370 on the other hand will have chord mode, but then again that's a 4 osc module ...
bemushroomed
I guess people think that because something is digital, then anything is possible in terms of firmware updates. I think most of the time these digital modules are already pushing their limits in terms of their hardware limitations (CPU power etc). It would not make too much sense to use really powerful (= more expensive) hardware and just let 50% or something be idling.
Drakhe
bemushroomed wrote:
I guess people think that because something is digital, then anything is possible in terms of firmware updates. I think most of the time these digital modules are already pushing their limits in terms of their hardware limitations (CPU power etc). It would not make too much sense to use really powerful (= more expensive) hardware and just let 50% or something be idling.


Exactly! applause
diode_destroyer
Dumb question: what is the easiest way to create waveforms based on mathematical functions and get them into the e352? I don't own an e352, but if I get one I would want to generate waveforms a little more precisely than waving the mouse around in the wave edit software (which is still an awesome option). Would I have to use python or something and write a wavefile (based on math functions) that I then import into the wave edit software, or is there an easier way?
wellurban
bemushroomed wrote:
I guess people think that because something is digital, then anything is possible in terms of firmware updates. I think most of the time these digital modules are already pushing their limits in terms of their hardware limitations (CPU power etc). It would not make too much sense to use really powerful (= more expensive) hardware and just let 50% or something be idling.


That's true in most cases. However, in some cases modules are released when they can comfortably do what their creator intended them to do, and that's enough for the time. Later on either they, or another developer in the case of open source modules, might find other functionality to add on in subsequent firmware releases. Braids is a good example of this: WTx4 mode (which does chords) was added in version 1.4). Also, sometimes a module might be initially pushing the limits of the hardware, but after time a developer finds ways to substantially optimise the code, thus allowing for added features.

I don't think either of these are likely to apply in this case. Paul's been making digital modules, and wavetable modules in particular, for a loooong time, and based on the previous discussions here it looks like he's squeezing pretty much everything he can out of the hardware.
bemushroomed
@wellurban more a matter of available space than available CPU power though.. as for Braids it's not very likely it turned it into a 4-voice VCO, it's just a matter of new waveforms i believe, so no real time processing of several voices at the same time ( if so it's pretty impressive i'd say smile )
mdoudoroff
diode_destroyer wrote:
Dumb question: what is the easiest way to create waveforms based on mathematical functions and get them into the e352? I don't own an e352, but if I get one I would want to generate waveforms a little more precisely than waving the mouse around in the wave edit software (which is still an awesome option). Would I have to use python or something and write a wavefile (based on math functions) that I then import into the wave edit software, or is there an easier way?


If you’re comfortable with Python, here’s some crappy code to get you started:

https://github.com/mdoudoroff/pywaveedit

Mainly, it takes care of loading/saving the exact right sort of wav files, but there’s some abstraction/validation assistance in there.
starthief
There was a wavetable morphing script for SciLab that Mungo linked to in a thread somewhere here. If you can code you might be able to dig into that.

Probably easier, Serum (software synth) has a fancy wavetable editor that lets you enter an algorithm/formula to build or modify tables.
diode_destroyer
mdoudoroff wrote:
diode_destroyer wrote:
Dumb question: what is the easiest way to create waveforms based on mathematical functions and get them into the e352? I don't own an e352, but if I get one I would want to generate waveforms a little more precisely than waving the mouse around in the wave edit software (which is still an awesome option). Would I have to use python or something and write a wavefile (based on math functions) that I then import into the wave edit software, or is there an easier way?


If you’re comfortable with Python, here’s some crappy code to get you started:

https://github.com/mdoudoroff/pywaveedit

Mainly, it takes care of loading/saving the exact right sort of wav files, but there’s some abstraction/validation assistance in there.


Oh yea, this is right in my wheelhouse. Thanks!
mdoudoroff
diode_destroyer wrote:

Oh yea, this is right in my wheelhouse. Thanks!


Great! I had plans to refine the code and to generate more algorithmic banks, but I’ve been swamped. I hope you have some fun with it!
danfastlikeflan
is there a place where everyone is sharing the wave tables they have made?
wellurban
bemushroomed wrote:
@wellurban more a matter of available space than available CPU power though.. as for Braids it's not very likely it turned it into a 4-voice VCO, it's just a matter of new waveforms i believe, so no real time processing of several voices at the same time ( if so it's pretty impressive i'd say smile )


I'm at risk of derailing the conversation, but just quickly: Braids' WTx4 mode creates 4 note chords, with CV over chord type, and includes detuning. There are also several modes with 3 squares, saws etc, the pitch of each can be controlled independently. So it's more like several VCOs (each with the same waveform) than just waveforms with harmonics that emulate certain chords.
mdoudoroff
danfastlikeflan wrote:
is there a place where everyone is sharing the wave tables they have made?


Yes, it’s called WaveEdit Online, and it’s built into WaveEdit.
bommelito
Any idea when E352 will be available (again) in Germany (preferably at Schneidersladen)?
paults
End of the month. I sold out the first run of 325, building 250 more.
tross
paults wrote:
End of the month. I sold out the first run of 325, building 250 more.


Does it mean that if i ordered E352 from a SynthTech page directly, i'll have it as well in the end of the month?

Thank you.
paults
Yes, the current wait is 1st week of Dec if you order now.

And I am closed 20Dec until 10Jan.
dodecabilly
I have a couple of questions regarding wavetable editor:

Would it be possible in the future to have more than 3 user wavetable banks in the module itself? Or to overwrite factory ones? I am asking because custom wavetables is the main reason for me to get this module. I used to own Morphing Terrarium, and while it sounded awesome, it kinda felt to me like I am using someone else's presets, and eventually I've sold it. Now with that editor and custom waves I have the reason to go into wavetable synthesis again.
I've been playing around with that wavetable editor, and am having a ton of fun, already made a couple of banks which I can't wait to try under voltage control... And if you could add option to overwrite factory waves to make more room for custom ones, it would be great.

I also have one feature request for the editor - to adjust individual pitch per wave. I've made some waves that differ in pitch by removing fundamental harmonic or adjusting ring modulation ratio, but more control over this aspect would offer possibilty to make morphing melodic or even chord sequences (with harmonics editor) etc.
tross
paults wrote:
Yes, the current wait is 1st week of Dec if you order now.

And I am closed 20Dec until 10Jan.


I've ordered 20th of October or something like this. So it's still December or earlier?
paults
Quote:
Would it be possible in the future to have more than 3 user wavetable banks in the module itself?


Now that the operating system is 'stable' (no one has reported a single bug so far), I can see if there is room to add more than 3.

Quote:
I also have one feature request for the editor - to adjust individual pitch per wave.


Now that the source code is released, features like this (a resampling algorithm) can be added.
mdoudoroff
paults wrote:
Quote:
Would it be possible in the future to have more than 3 user wavetable banks in the module itself?


Now that the operating system is 'stable' (no one has reported a single bug so far), I can see if there is room to add more than 3.


I wonder if there’s a way to pull along the filename for display in suitable places? That might feel more pressing if the number of loaded wavetables increases.
dodecabilly
paults wrote:
Quote:
Would it be possible in the future to have more than 3 user wavetable banks in the module itself?

Now that the operating system is 'stable' (no one has reported a single bug so far), I can see if there is room to add more than 3.
Quote:
I also have one feature request for the editor - to adjust individual pitch per wave.

Now that the source code is released, features like this (a resampling algorithm) can be added.


thanks for the answer!
CF3
mdoudoroff wrote:
paults wrote:
Quote:
Would it be possible in the future to have more than 3 user wavetable banks in the module itself?


Now that the operating system is 'stable' (no one has reported a single bug so far), I can see if there is room to add more than 3.


I wonder if there’s a way to pull along the filename for display in suitable places? That might feel more pressing if the number of loaded wavetables increases.


Yeah, BIG +1 for this. I quickly forget what wavetables I've loaded in. d'oh!
pyjamarama
+1 here for file name visibility. generic "user A/B/C" makes it difficult to keep track of what's actually loaded in there.

lovely module btw. enjoying wave edit also.
psyclone001
Yes totally agree regarding showing the loaded wavetable file names.
Impossible to remember what’s loaded in, particularly when you fire up your system the next day.
FatRocky
sorry if i go off topic, where can i find updates regarding the kickstarter E370´s orders?
Thanks thumbs up
paults
Quote:
where can i find updates regarding the kickstarter E370´s orders


I send periodic updates via the KS app. There will be one Monday or Tuesday of next week.
amop
Really happy how this is pairing with the Erbe-Verb....short clip...

BaloErets
A short capture of what turned out to be like 90 minutes of pure droning bliss. It's like there was electricity everywhere!!

dooj88
BaloErets wrote:
A short capture of what turned out to be like 90 minutes of pure droning bliss. It's like there was electricity everywhere!!



2:05-2:45 was blissful! i'm gonna have to be more gentle with the modulation i'm sending into mine, and go back to using the 3 default waves! were you modulating spread and morph, or just morph?
BaloErets
dooj88 wrote:
BaloErets wrote:
A short capture of what turned out to be like 90 minutes of pure droning bliss. It's like there was electricity everywhere!!



2:05-2:45 was blissful! i'm gonna have to be more gentle with the modulation i'm sending into mine, and go back to using the 3 default waves! were you modulating spread and morph, or just morph?


Cheers. Morph, Chaos and Spread were all being modulated, with the Spread and Morph CV also having their offsets and levels modulated via Pam's CV inputs.
behndy
BaloErets wrote:
A short capture of what turned out to be like 90 minutes of pure droning bliss. It's like there was electricity everywhere!!



VERY pretty!

everything i hear makes me more and more giddy about the possibilities and impatient for mines to arrive.

thanks for the droooooneeeeees!
MoogCloud
BaloErets wrote:
dooj88 wrote:
BaloErets wrote:
A short capture of what turned out to be like 90 minutes of pure droning bliss. It's like there was electricity everywhere!!



2:05-2:45 was blissful! i'm gonna have to be more gentle with the modulation i'm sending into mine, and go back to using the 3 default waves! were you modulating spread and morph, or just morph?


Cheers. Morph, Chaos and Spread were all being modulated, with the Spread and Morph CV also having their offsets and levels modulated via Pam's CV inputs.


Thanks for the modulation tips..... applause
I can’t wait to find some time to play with it.
bommelito
Any idea when a manual for the E352 will be available online?

I am still waiting for mine (from Schneidersladen), so I could at least prepare myself ...
paults
There is no detailed "manual" over the little guide on my website.

Rather, I had 2 tutorial videos made (short and long) that cover all the modes.

E352 Main Page has the shorter one.

I need to add the longer DivKid one, it is here: Longer video
wellurban
I've just made a little dark-ambient drone piece using the E352 in Cloud+Morph mode as the only audio source. It's being pretty heavily treated and modified by various other modules, but this goes to show just how much it can do!



The video description has the full patch notes, but here are the salient parts:

The main drone is output 1 through Erbe Verb, which goes into shimmer mode occasionally. Spread and Chaos/BW are being modulated by slowish LFOs, while the Z morph is controlled by the sum of a quickish LFO and a very slow one. The parts on the video that show Lissajous figures are in sync with the audio, and you can see the "throbbing" effect from the quicker LFO as well as the very slow morph.

Out 2 goes through a VCA into Tyme Sefari II and a uVCF in bandpass mode. The TSII uses the Sound of Thunder expander to pitch up the wet signal, which creates octave cascades with feedback. The start and end points are modulated, giving strange glitches at times.

Out 1 also goes into a Serge Resonant EQ, which is used to shape a bassy version of the main drone. This goes into a Belgrad in LL mode and high resonance, with random CV to give pulses and occasional squelches.

Finally, one of the high frequency individual outs from the Res EQ goes through a uFold and Pittsburgh Filter in highpass mode to give some trebly highlights. This only kicks in very occasionally (just a couple of times at the very end in this snippet) as an inverted envelope is triggered to bring the cutoff frequency down into audible range. The output goes through Wow & Flutter to create a Doppler-like effect.

Hope you enjoy this: I'm only just scraping the surface of this amazing module!
wellurban
paults wrote:
There is no detailed "manual" over the little guide on my website.

Rather, I had 2 tutorial videos made (short and long) that cover all the modes.


Bob Borries' illustrated guide is also really helpful. It was linked a few pages upthread, but here's the link.
bommelito
thanks a lot for the hint!

Will there be a detailed manual one of these days, paults?
southphillysynths
Have had mine for a bit and just got around to messing with it!

Does anyone know more about the quantize mode? Is it only chromatic or is there more scales? or am I thinking about that wrong?!

Also can I get a silver panel for my black panel version? Jedi
paults
Quote:
Does anyone know more about the quantize mode? Is it only chromatic or is there more scales?


Just chromatic

Quote:
can I get a silver panel for my black panel version?


PM would be a good thing to do.
Cortega
paults wrote:
Quote:
Does anyone know more about the quantize mode? Is it only chromatic or is there more scales?


Just chromatic




where can i find the quantize mode ?
RLK
About a minute each of the E352 in Morph/Phase, Cloud/Morph, and 2 OP FM modes.
Alongside the unfiltered sound, running each output through separate sweeping filtering,
Also running the signal parallel through an Audio Damage Grainshift for some background creepy shimmer.
Sorry - just the camera mike.

JohnLRice
Cortega wrote:
paults wrote:
Quote:
Does anyone know more about the quantize mode? Is it only chromatic or is there more scales?


Just chromatic




where can i find the quantize mode ?
In the main menu there is a sub menu titled Frequency-Quantize, or at least there used to be? (I don't have an E352 here to check)
dooj88
Cortega wrote:
paults wrote:
Quote:
Does anyone know more about the quantize mode? Is it only chromatic or is there more scales?


Just chromatic




where can i find the quantize mode ?


at 9 minutes in

Bob Borries
Here are some more LFO shapes that are in the LFO Playground part 2 wave set that can be downloaded from the Wave Edit App.



some more background information of some of the wavetables

Tidal Phase Mixed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tide

Wave 48) Super Nova 2008 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SN_2008D

Wave 49) Sun Spots cycle 23 year 2000

Stars twinkle with varying amounts of light that repeat over time, this data can be converted to a wavetable

Wave 50) Star Luminance Cycle Auro#875

Wave 51) Star Luminance Cycle UX UMa a Cataclysmic Star https://www.aavso.org/vsots_uxuma

Wave 52) Star KIC 8462852 Alien Super Structure called a Dyson swarm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KIC_8462852

Wave 54) Star Luminance Cycle DV Uma is an eclipsing binary with deep eclipses of 1.5 mag or more with an orbital period of 0.08597 day.

Wave 53) Star HD 164595 SETI alien Signal [img]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_164595[/img]

Wave 55) Star Luminance Cycle CM Lac
mdoudoroff
Thank you Bob Borries—and others—for taking the time to assemble and share these wavetables.
we're not worthy
makrel
Hi guys
I haven't been able to search my way to get an answer to the following question:

When you store a patch on the E352, does it also store the knob positions?

Since it is not specifically mentioned anywhere, I guess the answer is no, but it would indeed be sweet to be able to recall the value of the knob controls when loading a patch. If so, I guess the physical knobs would then be showing "wrong" positions until you tweak them, but that would be acceptable.
Vortico
makrel
No it does not. The physical state of the knob positions are what you get. I would wager that most Eurorack users consider this (EDIT: the lying-knobs trend in digital harware) to be "not acceptable" since what-you-see-is-what-you-get is one of the reasons they use hardware in the first place. (Otherwise they'd use a Behringer BCR2000 and a VST plugin and spend a few hours clicking around on a computer.)
makrel
Thanks for confirming this
joskery
Vortico wrote:
makrel
No it does not. The physical state of the knob positions are what you get. I would wager that most Eurorack users consider this "not acceptable" since it's one of the reasons they use hardware in the first place. (Otherwise they'd use a Behringer BCR2000 and a VST plugin and spend a few hours clicking around on a computer.)


I think it's not really this black and white. Many hardware units use different 'soft pickup' methods for solving this.

I'd prefer it to have some sort of soft pickup method á la Shapeshifter.

Buut, I really don't want to get into the whole 'presets in Eurorack' discourse in depth smile I understand both sides of the debate, but maybe in this case my train of thought is: If you're going to implement presets, why not implement them properly? That is, in a way that recalling a preset gives you the sound you saved as a preset.
RLK
For the E 352 the extent of presetting makes sense:
Given that wave table selection, phase interpolation, etc. carries over into each mode, the presets help you "package" certain setups.
Kind of like switching between modules without unplugging the cables.

I'm normally not a menu/preset guy, but it is so (cringe word alert) intuitive on the E352!
joskery wrote:
Vortico wrote:
makrel
No it does not. The physical state of the knob positions are what you get. I would wager that most Eurorack users consider this "not acceptable" since it's one of the reasons they use hardware in the first place. (Otherwise they'd use a Behringer BCR2000 and a VST plugin and spend a few hours clicking around on a computer.)


I think it's not really this black and white. Many hardware units use different 'soft pickup' methods for solving this.

I'd prefer it to have some sort of soft pickup method á la Shapeshifter.

Buut, I really don't want to get into the whole 'presets in Eurorack' discourse in depth smile I understand both sides of the debate, but maybe in this case my train of thought is: If you're going to implement presets, why not implement them properly? That is, in a way that recalling a preset gives you the sound you saved as a preset.
starthief
Think of them less as presets in the plugin sense, and more a shortcut to not having to set up several menu settings. Especially on the E370, where it stores voice settings, mixer settings, CV assignments etc.

I really dislike soft pickup, aka "knobs that lie." It's why I sold Peaks. It's part of why I sold my TherapSID. It was less of a problem on Twin Waves because there was only one knob and there was a display and extra LED to assist with it, but I still wished for an encoder instead (to be fair though, I sold Twin my Waves for different reasons). It is, I'm realizing, part of my discomfort with Frames.

Pots should always point at their actual value.

Also: there isn't one ADC per knob. There's one for pitch (on the E352; four on the E370), covering the coarse and fine knobs and 1V/OCT input. There is -- I suspect -- one for each parameter covering the param knob, CV input and its attenuverter. There's no way to save and recall that that makes any sense.
neil.h.edwards82
Loving my e352 - but disaster has struck!

The screen has gone totally white, still outputting light and everything else still works on the module.

Any idea what might be the cause??
behndy
love this thing. so versatile. super fun for the droooooooooooneeeeeees, but it works so well as a more "normal" vco too. the bassline part is each out of the E352 going into a side of the Mengqi DPLPG.

faze3
I love this thing!

Cloud + Morph = Bliss It's peanut butter jelly time!

Dogma
neil.h.edwards82 wrote:
Loving my e352 - but disaster has struck!

The screen has gone totally white, still outputting light and everything else still works on the module.

Any idea what might be the cause??



Please im not being an ass but why not contact Paul for support? You'll get a 100% correct answer too smile
Dogma
Bob Borries wrote:
Here are some more LFO shapes that are in the LFO Playground part 2 wave set that can be downloaded from the Wave Edit App.



some more background information of some of the wavetables

Tidal Phase Mixed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tide

Wave 48) Super Nova 2008 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SN_2008D

Wave 49) Sun Spots cycle 23 year 2000

Stars twinkle with varying amounts of light that repeat over time, this data can be converted to a wavetable

Wave 50) Star Luminance Cycle Auro#875

Wave 51) Star Luminance Cycle UX UMa a Cataclysmic Star https://www.aavso.org/vsots_uxuma

Wave 52) Star KIC 8462852 Alien Super Structure called a Dyson swarm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KIC_8462852

Wave 54) Star Luminance Cycle DV Uma is an eclipsing binary with deep eclipses of 1.5 mag or more with an orbital period of 0.08597 day.

Wave 53) Star HD 164595 SETI alien Signal [img]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_164595[/img]

Wave 55) Star Luminance Cycle CM Lac



That's so damn cool, great work smile
dro
Just wanted to drop in and say I'm struggling to stay patient waiting on the black panel E352 love

The sound design possibilities seem amazing. I think I'll watch DivKid's video again haha.
sendepause
southphillysynths wrote:


Also can I get a silver panel for my black panel version? Jedi


Still looking for a silver panel? I get my silver E352 somewhere the next days. We could swap panels....
dooj88
i'm wondering if there's any possibility for consideration (or technical capability) to increase the resolution of the chaos parameter in Cloud and Cloud+Morph modes in the lower end in a subsequent update. i find the parameter only really musically useful under 2.5 or so. anything above that is.. well chaos and noise...

though admittedly i've only adjusted this parameter at audio rates. perhaps i'll see what the effect does in lower (LFO) frequency ranges. haven't thought of that until just now. it would be sweet if someone with an o-scope could visualize this. wondering if it adds a lorenz attractor flavor to the waveform.
wellurban
dooj88 wrote:
i'm wondering if there's any possibility for consideration (or technical capability) to increase the resolution of the chaos parameter in Cloud and Cloud+Morph modes in the lower end in a subsequent update. i find the parameter only really musically useful under 2.5 or so. anything above that is.. well chaos and noise...


Chaos and noise can be musically useful :-) I know what you mean, though: most of the knob range is noisy. I suppose it could be changed in firmware to have a different response, but for the moment we just have to rely on the attenuator to keep the CV to a more in-tune range.

dooj88 wrote:

though admittedly i've only adjusted this parameter at audio rates. perhaps i'll see what the effect does in lower (LFO) frequency ranges. haven't thought of that until just now. it would be sweet if someone with an o-scope could visualize this. wondering if it adds a lorenz attractor flavor to the waveform.


It would probably still go into noisy territory unless you heavily attenuate the incoming CV. Audio rate modulation of this is probably always going to sound pretty extreme, though, compared to slow LFOs. Perhaps the most "musical" use of this (for a narrow definition of "musical") would be for percussion or as an attack transient: feed in sharp plucky envelope to give a very short burst of rich/noisy harmonics followed by a purer tone. Or use it with an external filter, and modulate both to get the effect of tones emerging from a whoosh of primal noise.

As for a Lorenz attractor: I haven't tried visualising it, but I'm pretty sure this isn't "chaos" in a strict mathematical sense, but just another name for randomness. Paul will know for sure, though.
starthief
Somehow it never occurred to me to use cloud mode at LFO rates eek! With squares it creates fun stepped envelopes, and with triangles or sines it gets into some complex wobbles.

The sort of thing you could use for sort-of-random triggers or to feed a quantizer and then into Rings or something. Or Drezno to get a bunch of random gates that are sort of in sync as far as general shape goes, but not necessarily in phase...

Chaos has a lot less noticeable effect at a lower LFO rate until you max the bandwidth.
Dogma
Has tzfm made it to this yet?
tonymasiello
Hi Paul,

I ordered a silver E352 from Perfect Circuit on 10/29 and I'm still waiting. PC told me on 1/24 that they were expecting more stock by the end of the month, which has now passed. I know it will be worth the wait, but I'd appreciate any updates on the ETA.

Thanks!
-Tony
sendepause
Right out of the box. I truly love this module. So rich in sound.

But maybe this isn't best video to show it....

dooj88
starthief wrote:
Somehow it never occurred to me to use cloud mode at LFO rates eek! With squares it creates fun stepped envelopes, and with triangles or sines it gets into some complex wobbles.

The sort of thing you could use for sort-of-random triggers or to feed a quantizer and then into Rings or something. Or Drezno to get a bunch of random gates that are sort of in sync as far as general shape goes, but not necessarily in phase...

Chaos has a lot less noticeable effect at a lower LFO rate until you max the bandwidth.


i gave it a shot in this video, it makes for some wild CV options. polite repeating patterns to savage nonsense. beer! Drunk Banana

paults
PC ordered a LOT of modules. I will send some this week, and the rest in 3 weeks.
dro
paults wrote:
PC ordered a LOT of modules. I will send some this week, and the rest in 3 weeks.
does that include orders direct from you with the black panel?
Trooper Starship
got my black one yesterday - hell what a awsome module thumbs up
Goin_noW
CF3 wrote:
paults wrote:
Quote:
When does it ship?


If things go as planned, mid-August.


cry hihi



pumped for this one This is fun!

Me Too!!!!
Trooper
Made a first testrun with some weird sequences, switched only through the different modes.
At the begining some other modules come in for context, then after the E352 alone again.

bc3
Paul, what is the size and style shaft on the potentiometers? Love the 352 but tired of always bumping the tuning knobs when adjusting the parameter knobs so I'm looking for a smaller knob options. Thx!
starthief
bc3 wrote:
Paul, what is the size and style shaft on the potentiometers? Love the 352 but tired of always bumping the tuning knobs when adjusting the parameter knobs so I'm looking for a smaller knob options. Thx!


The 6.35mm round Davies 1900h clones from Thonk will fit. The black ones even look pretty decent with a black panel.

I found it a bit of a challenge to turn the setscrews of the original knobs though.
I probably had the wrong driver for them.
bc3
starthief wrote:
bc3 wrote:
Paul, what is the size and style shaft on the potentiometers? Love the 352 but tired of always bumping the tuning knobs when adjusting the parameter knobs so I'm looking for a smaller knob options. Thx!


The 6.35mm round Davies 1900h clones from Thonk will fit. The black ones even look pretty decent with a black panel.

I found it a bit of a challenge to turn the setscrews of the original knobs though.
I probably had the wrong driver for them.


Many thanks for the info, guess I am not alone hihi
pyjamarama
"I found it a bit of a challenge to turn the setscrews of the original knobs though.
I probably had the wrong driver for them."

are they even screws? I'm trying to do the same and can't see clearly enough as they are set pretty deep. none of my usual screwdrivers seem to catch. perhaps some alan key situation?
bc3
yes, i think they might be a small allen wrench size?
paults
1/16th inch Allen/hex key needed
pyjamarama
thanks paul appreciated.
Wick
Trooper wrote:
Made a first testrun with some weird sequences, switched only through the different modes.
At the begining some other modules come in for context, then after the E352 alone again.


sweet love that tracker sequencer
Trooper
Thanks, yes with the Nerdseq you can do things like a DAW

Here it sequences all, the bass-like run at the begin is E352

CF3
Many thanks to Paul and the team for adding A.) 5 more user wavetables, and B.) a user wavetable list in Mode Help. we're not worthy

Plus all the other cool stuff Guinness ftw!
Trooper
yes, the new V1.2 is very fine thumbs up
dooj88
CF3 wrote:
Many thanks to Paul and the team for adding A.) 5 more user wavetables, and B.) a user wavetable list in Mode Help. we're not worthy

Plus all the other cool stuff Guinness ftw!


Ooooh yeah? Is this beta testing or did I miss the announcement here somewhere?

Also, wavetable names in help we're not worthy
Trooper Starship
V 1.2
bommelito
V1.2 thumbs up
paults
note for V1.2 to work with the file names, you must have some extension in the file name (like .WAV or .BNK or just any 3 letters).

I will have a tweak to this code as a V1.2a this weekend that eliminates this requirement, but in the meantime manually add it if not there.

The best way to keep abreast is to join the SynthTech Modular Group on Facebook (I know......)
ashh888
V1.2 thumbs up
faze3
Trooper Starship wrote:
V 1.2


Thanks for posting the link bud.... Awesome update Paul thumbs up
sendepause
So yesterday, i was sitting in my studio and just listen to my E352 in cloud+morph mode, some gentle cv over the Z, a little slow random quantized 1/v voltages and delay and reverb.... Ok, lots of reverb.

I think i just sat there and listened for about an hour and a half and i was thinking; I don't need anything else.

Recognizable?
bommelito
sendepause wrote:
So yesterday, i was sitting in my studio and just listen to my E352 in cloud+morph mode, some gentle cv over the Z, a little slow random quantized 1/v voltages and delay and reverb.... Ok, lots of reverb.

I think i just sat there and listened for about an hour and a half and i was thinking; I don't need anything else.

Recognizable?


yeah, I know *exactly* what you mean! cool
sendepause
Ha, i even hit the record button....
A bit to much delay though...

[s]http://soundcloud.com/sendepause/void-crossing[/s]
juvation
i just uploaded the first 8 PPG wavetables to Wave Edit online. once these prove to be OK and i don't get flamed or banned or whatever, i'll put up the rest.

thanks to Hermann Seib and Cary Roberts for help received during the conversion process.
sendepause
juvation wrote:
i just uploaded the first 8 PPG wavetables to Wave Edit online. once these prove to be OK and i don't get flamed or banned or whatever, i'll put up the rest.

thanks to Hermann Seib and Cary Roberts for help received during the conversion process.


we're not worthy
Trooper
[quote="sendepause]
[s]http://soundcloud.com/sendepause/void-crossing[/s]
  [/quote]

realy nice thumbs up
Fastus
bommelito wrote:
sendepause wrote:
So yesterday, i was sitting in my studio and just listen to my E352 in cloud+morph mode, some gentle cv over the Z, a little slow random quantized 1/v voltages and delay and reverb.... Ok, lots of reverb.

I think i just sat there and listened for about an hour and a half and i was thinking; I don't need anything else.

Recognizable?


yeah, I know *exactly* what you mean! cool


So now that video gaming is an official addiction, maybe we should add cloud-morphing to the list too: "That was it, once I switched on the 8 osc cloud-morph mode full spread with light modulation, I no longer paid attention to anything or anybody. I lost everything..."
CF3
juvation wrote:
i just uploaded the first 8 PPG wavetables to Wave Edit online. once these prove to be OK and i don't get flamed or banned or whatever, i'll put up the rest.

thanks to Hermann Seib and Cary Roberts for help received during the conversion process.


Big thumbsup for this. I had a few of these but not the whole set thumbs up
Trooper
did a little "after breakfast track" with one of the PPG wavetable/samples, a realy nice sound (the bellish at beginning).

juvation
Trooper wrote:
did a little "after breakfast track" with one of the PPG wavetable/samples, a realy nice sound (the bellish at beginning).



excellent!
rishin
Fastus wrote:
bommelito wrote:
sendepause wrote:
So yesterday, i was sitting in my studio and just listen to my E352 in cloud+morph mode, some gentle cv over the Z, a little slow random quantized 1/v voltages and delay and reverb.... Ok, lots of reverb.

I think i just sat there and listened for about an hour and a half and i was thinking; I don't need anything else.

Recognizable?


yeah, I know *exactly* what you mean! cool


So now that video gaming is an official addiction, maybe we should add cloud-morphing to the list too: "That was it, once I switched on the 8 osc cloud-morph mode full spread with light modulation, I no longer paid attention to anything or anybody. I lost everything..."


It is an addiction indeed! It can get a little more entrancing if you record a ~5s clip of the E352 nearly full spread with slight modulation on the morph, then play that clip back with Gene Size and Morph ~3/4 CW, and slow modulation through the Slide parameter Dead Banana
Trooper
@juvation - thanks


New! Production release firmware V1.2A (March 2, 2018)

thumbs up
Cortega
where in the Menü is the TZFM Option ?
paults
Frequency page, the default is Expo but then 3 TZFM ranges are added.

The widest range (10KHz deviation) is the limit of the A/D resolution, there is a bit of jitter on the frequency readout.
Cortega
paults wrote:
Frequency page, the default is Expo but then 3 TZFM ranges are added.

The widest range (10KHz deviation) is the limit of the A/D resolution, there is a bit of jitter on the frequency readout.



Thanks, you mean Lin L Lin M and Lin H ?

and is in any case calibration needed ?
paults
Quote:
Thanks, you mean Lin L Lin M and Lin H ?


Yes.
Lin L = Low deviation, about 17Hz/volt
Lin M = Medium deviation, about 635Hz/volt
Lin H = High deviation, about 10KHz/v but "wraps" around 31KHz output

Quote:
and is in any case calibration needed ?


Yes, you unplug anything into the FM jack, turn the FM pot to '0' (fully CCW) and run the cal routine which takes < 1/2 sec
Mikekiraly1
Just going to drop this here smile

dhoinjo
posted this in another thread but again: this was hands down the easiest firmware update I ever did. Took me about one minute. Upload firmware to sd card, eject sd-card from computer, insert sd-card into E352, power up, confirm, load and good to go! Great work Paul! Completely convinced for the E370 now. Just a little more cash, a new case and I'm there thumbs up
MoogCloud
sendepause wrote:
So yesterday, i was sitting in my studio and just listen to my E352 in cloud+morph mode, some gentle cv over the Z, a little slow random quantized 1/v voltages and delay and reverb.... Ok, lots of reverb.

I think i just sat there and listened for about an hour and a half and i was thinking; I don't need anything else.

Recognizable?



Just so nice. Thanks for sharing!!! applause
dooj88
i'm totally contented with the capabilities of this module, does everything i need.

just throwing this out there as an idea... someone asked me if each output could be set to independent rates, e.g., output 1 at audio and output2 in low lfo mode. might be a cool addition if the hardware can handle it.
paults
HW not set up to do that easily, and would mean the LFO wave couldn't morph and FM at the same time (would have to pick 1 or the other).
dooj88
paults wrote:
HW not set up to do that easily, and would mean the LFO wave couldn't morph and FM at the same time (would have to pick 1 or the other).


eegad, i wouldn't want to tackle that programming/UI puzzle either.
Hidden_Path
dhoinjo wrote:
posted this in another thread but again: this was hands down the easiest firmware update I ever did. Took me about one minute. Upload firmware to sd card, eject sd-card from computer, insert sd-card into E352, power up, confirm, load and good to go! Great work Paul! Completely convinced for the E370 now. Just a little more cash, a new case and I'm there thumbs up


Ditto here too... I usually begrudge doing firmware updates, but this has been totally painless.
Hanz
I’m new to E-352, and maybe I missed something, but is there any reason why Frequency-Quantize -> Quantize : On by default results in notes being off by some 10 cts.? I.e. reference A-4 not 440Hz but 442/443Hz, etc. - consistently across the board...

(And yes, I saw this could be adjusted via Quantize Offset in steps of 3 cts.)
paults
So, did you try adjusting it?
dhoinjo
hihi
Hanz
paults wrote:
So, did you try adjusting it?


Amazingly, it worked at first try! Truly, 21st century technology... hihi
But... why? With 37+ years designing 100s of products, from F-22 weapons computers to Alpine car stereos and 2 EE degrees... surely there must be a profound reason to this...
paults
Google "Data converter INL error" and "op amp DC offset"
Hanz
... done. And now?
Knowing that other manufacturers equally face these limitations, and still, for some reason, seem to have no issues producing modules that conform to common industry standards, i.e. A=440 Hz.

As much as I like Synthesis Technology products, it appears typical for customers’ questions to get (bluntly) swathed aside... pointing to issues with other products, complaining about other’s lack of observance to engineering standards, insinuating end-user ignorance etc. Yet, what we have here is (admittedly a small) issue falling entirely within Synthtech’s own domain. No power issue, no other modules connected, completely read the manual etc.
And still this... reflex. Would it be really too much to give a helpful answer, for example - “oops, this may have been an oversight, perhaps we could try to fix it in a future update...” or “sorry, technical limitation, can’t be fixed...”, something like that?

When this F-22 you helped design always banks slightly to the left - do you then simply tell the pilot to ‘google aerodynamics’ and keep turning a little bit to the right to compensate? meh
paults
Because I cannot control the accuracy of the A/D converter I purchase. Also, in the CV input chain, there are 2 op amps that, again, have errors themselves.

So, there has to be calibration in order to counter the errors. You have seen Eurorack modules with trim pots, correct?

Now, what I think you are trying to say is something like: why do ***I*** have to trim it, why didn't it come already trimmed?

The answer: because my 1.000V steps I use on my lab bench are not ***YOUR*** steps from whatever you use. Maybe yours are 0.9875 steps, or 1.0345V steps.

So, I do cal the pitch 1V/oct to my settings, but don't cal the quantizer because in 76.8% of the time, it's in cal for people. Yours it outside the range.

Or maybe you are just trolling?
RussiaZero23
I would like to thank you Paul for this wave table. Got me wanting the E370 to make 4 voice poly out of it.

Here is my Second go with your module

https://youtu.be/AZ15dcgXS_U

please enjoy.
Hanz
paults wrote:
Because I cannot control the accuracy of the A/D converter I purchase. Also, in the CV input chain, there are 2 op amps that, again, have errors themselves.

So, there has to be calibration in order to counter the errors. You have seen Eurorack modules with trim pots, correct?

Now, what I think you are trying to say is something like: why do ***I*** have to trim it, why didn't it come already trimmed?

The answer: because my 1.000V steps I use on my lab bench are not ***YOUR*** steps from whatever you use. Maybe yours are 0.9875 steps, or 1.0345V steps.

So, I do cal the pitch 1V/oct to my settings, but don't cal the quantizer because in 76.8% of the time, it's in cal for people. Yours it outside the range.

Or maybe you are just trolling?


Not at all trolling, just trying to get meaningful support.
Notice the gentle tone of my original question - and now I’m supposed to defend myself?
*And* of course it would be my gear that’s out of whack, “whatever I use” (but clearly substandard, right... waah )
See the pattern developing here? Too funny...

To the final point of your answer - you don’t calibrate the quantizer. Could I do that myself, somehow? You mistakenly assume I don’t want to. Now *that* would be part of a normal support answer interaction.
Remember, it’s *your* module that prints on the pcb “no gefingerpoken!”

Otherwise, no biggie - I will use the menu adjustment.
But please, don’t go around throwing random statistics and iinsults that you make up on the spot. I’m not the guy who egged your car, back in ‘89 or something... confused
emeb
Hanz wrote:
Knowing that other manufacturers equally face these limitations, and still, for some reason, seem to have no issues producing modules that conform to common industry standards, i.e. A=440 Hz.


This is because we didn't want to take sides on the A = 440 vs A = 443 controversy. hihi
Hanz
emeb wrote:
This is because we didn't want to take sides on the A = 440 vs A = 443 controversy. hihi


Ha! I knew it! cry

paults
I'm sorry, I still don't see what the issue is.

I'll try again: the internal quantizer table is not set to any particular "scale" such as A= 440 ( or A=443 or....), because even if we did, chances are that due to the A/D errors some calibration would have to be done by some small % of users.

I still seem to think you expect it to work as you expected "out of the box" without having to cal it. And somehow because it didn't, there is some huge unpinning flaw in everything I do?

So, if we had it set for "a=440" it would still be my A440 and my CV inputs on my bench, which may (or may NOT) fall inside your particular system of CVs.

Is this REALLY a big deal? If you want to argue YEAH BUT you've never had to cal OTHER gear so MY GEAR is at "fault"......OK then [sigh]
Hanz
Slowly now. Step by step. No assumptions, nobody gets hurt.
I’m simply looking for an instruction. And yeah, I’m used to calibrating modules, all of the time. I’m not arguing nothing. I have not insinuated your gear is ‘faulty’. If there’s one ‘flaw’ I’m pointing out it’s your typical style of interaction.
The one thing I’d expect is friendly manufacturer-customer interaction, given the fact I’ve just bought your product (not sexually violated your cat) and asked nicely to begin with.

So, the one thing that I would be looking for here, with all the limitations of my tiny brain and pathetic gear, is that the E352 quantizer would ‘lock’ to (let’s say) the A440 tuning standard (ISO 16, if you will) when using the standard 1V/oct conventions.
If that requires calibration on my behalf, I would certainly appreciate instructions for that. If this ‘calibration’ option you intend is actually the Quantize Offset in the menu, then please say so.
Or is it somehow the CV trimmer on the back, right next to the ‘no gefingerpoken!’? And if it’s still another thing (not described anywhere in the 1-pager documentation flyer) I would even more like to hear about it...

Oh, and nope - this support question is no big deal. Not at all.
The way you choose to engage such questions? Think about it, maybe.
paults
I agree the E352 needs a more detailed manual.
Dragonaut
paults wrote:
Also note that:

a) the card has to be 32GB or smaller, in a FAT32 format
b) the WAV files MUST be in the root directory or 1 sub-dir down
c) the root directory MUST contain <255 files total


The files should be made in the WaveEdit software. Posting this here for anybody else who might be digging for the information. Paul, you're great at what you do but might I make a suggestion? This information should be available in your intro video/manual/anywhere but buried in this thread!

Also: request! Could you add commenting/upvoting on the WaveEdit download pages? Plus a way to organize according to various methods might be good as the list gets longer!
paults
New Caitlin video showing E352/E370 drum sounds by rapidly enveloping the SPREAD CV.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vN7w45fRSvM
rembrandtvanrijn
Is a 4Gb SD card sufficient for all my Wavetable loading needs?
Dragonaut
Probably go a long way. I'm away from my gear atm but I loaded like twenty on an 8 gb card and it probably has a ton of space left over.
paults
Quote:
Is a 4Gb SD card sufficient for all my Wavetable loading needs?


Sure, it will hold over 50 million wavetables SlayerBadger!
emeb
rembrandtvanrijn wrote:
Is a 4Gb SD card sufficient for all my Wavetable loading needs?


Each wave bank holds 64 tables of 256 16-bit samples - one bank occupies 32kB of storage on an SD card.

Thus, a 4GB SD card could potentially hold about 130k banks, but there's another limitation - the E352 filesystem only allows for 256 directories of 256 files each - so a maximum of 64k banks.

So - anything larger than a 2GB card is more than enough to max out the E352 filesystem.
Storlon
Can we have a User manual now ...please ?
bemushroomed
emeb wrote:
rembrandtvanrijn wrote:
Is a 4Gb SD card sufficient for all my Wavetable loading needs?


Each wave bank holds 64 tables of 256 16-bit samples - one bank occupies 32kB of storage on an SD card.

Thus, a 4GB SD card could potentially hold about 130k banks, but there's another limitation - the E352 filesystem only allows for 256 directories of 256 files each - so a maximum of 64k banks.

So - anything larger than a 2GB card is more than enough to max out the E352 filesystem.


The .wav's are not separate though, doesnt require folders either, it uses a single .wav file for all the 64 wavetables.. maybe you're talking about some internal filesystem.

I wish there were more banks to save to, i filled mine up in the first two days with my own wavetables. It's also really interesting to try stuff like pads and voices/choirs and just turn the entire sound into a wavetable.. you get a similar result to MI Clouds, can be really fun sometimes.

What's good i guess is that even if it doesn't hold a ton of banks in memory it's still quite easy to just load new ones into it.
tonyfromthetigercage
paults wrote:
I agree the E352 needs a more detailed manual.


With cat pictures please.
Tonefloat01
paults wrote:
New Caitlin video showing E352/E370 drum sounds by rapidly enveloping the SPREAD CV.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vN7w45fRSvM


Very impressive, nice video! we're not worthy
I have two and a half times the modules she has and a few extra decades in the years department and she’s walking around that system like a Pro.
Maybe I should hang it up.... sad banana
Cortega
when i copy the Folder with all the Banks from Waveedit Online the e352 shows allways doubled Files, can this be avoid ?
dooj88
Cortega wrote:
when i copy the Folder with all the Banks from Waveedit Online the e352 shows allways doubled Files, can this be avoid ?


mdoudoroff posted the below answer in the WaveEdit Online thread:
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2835260#2835260

mdoudoroff wrote:
Most likely, the problem you are seeing is that Mac OS automatically creates a “hidden” metadata sidecar file for every file. By “hidden”, we mean that the filename begins with a period (which Mac OS normally hides from you in the Finder). This is not the right forum to debate the pros and cons of this behavior, but SynthTech has made no effort to filter out inappropriate (non-WAV) files in their file menu: they just list every item on the SD card.

The procedure you probably want to follow with Mac OS is something like this:

1) Download the big zip file from WaveEdit Online and decompress (if Mac OS doesn’t do so automatically)

2) In the Finder, find the folder of WAV files, make sure you’re in List view, and click the Name column header a couple times to make sure you’re sorting the files alphabetically, in ascending order



3) Carefully click the first filename to select it; scroll to the bottom of the list and carefully shift+click the last filename to select all the files

4) Drag the files to the SD card

5) Open Terminal

6) enter cd /Volumes/E352 (substituting the name of your SD card for “E352”)

7) make sure your cd command actually worked and that you’re in the correct place (the ls command should return a bunch of WAV files; the ls -a command should return the same WAV files, plus show you all the dot files you want to get rid of)

8) once you’re sure you’re in the right place, enter rm .* to delete the dot files—the operating system will decline to delete a few items; no big deal

9) you can verify with the ls -a command

Example:


10) enter exit to bail out of the Terminal session

11) carefully eject the SD card (as per normal) and transfer to your E352

The files should now appear reasonably clean and sorted in the File menu of your E352 (or E370).
Cortega
dooj88 wrote:
Cortega wrote:
when i copy the Folder with all the Banks from Waveedit Online the e352 shows allways doubled Files, can this be avoid ?


mdoudoroff posted the below answer in the WaveEdit Online thread:
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2835260#2835260

mdoudoroff wrote:
Most likely, the problem you are seeing is that Mac OS automatically creates a “hidden” metadata sidecar file for every file. By “hidden”, we mean that the filename begins with a period (which Mac OS normally hides from you in the Finder). This is not the right forum to debate the pros and cons of this behavior, but SynthTech has made no effort to filter out inappropriate (non-WAV) files in their file menu: they just list every item on the SD card. i

The procedure you probably want to follow with Mac OS is something like this:

1) Download the big zip file from WaveEdit Online and decompress (if Mac OS doesn’t do so automatically)

2) In the Finder, find the folder of WAV files, make sure you’re in List view, and click the Name column header a couple times to make sure you’re sorting the files alphabetically, in ascending order



3) Carefully click the first filename to select it; scroll to the bottom of the list and carefully shift+click the last filename to select all the files

4) Drag the files to the SD card

5) Open Terminal

6) enter cd /Volumes/E352 (substituting the name of your SD card for “E352”)

7) make sure your cd command actually worked and that you’re in the correct place (the ls command should return a bunch of WAV files; the ls -a command should return the same WAV files, plus show you all the dot files you want to get rid of)

8) once you’re sure you’re in the right place, enter rm .* to delete the dot files—the operating system will decline to delete a few items; no big deal

9) you can verify with the ls -a command

Example:


10) enter exit to bail out of the Terminal session

11) carefully eject the SD card (as per normal) and transfer to your E352

The files should now appear reasonably clean and sorted in the File menu of your E352 (or E370).


thanx a lot
X15
What's a good mode and good modulation to put into SYNC? Maybe its for clock pulse?

I have no idea what to use there (tried a few things it just makes the pitch really high it seems) and there's no manual hmmm.....
TEKBRAIN
X15 wrote:
What's a good mode and good modulation to put into SYNC? Maybe its for clock pulse?

I have no idea what to use there (tried a few things it just makes the pitch really high it seems) and there's no manual hmmm.....


Send the audio from another oscillator in the sync and the owner of the sync will try to follow the pitch. And if the E352 support the sample playing like the E370, a trigger in sync will play the sample.
wellurban
X15 wrote:
What's a good mode and good modulation to put into SYNC? Maybe its for clock pulse?

I have no idea what to use there (tried a few things it just makes the pitch really high it seems) and there's no manual hmmm.....


It'll do what any other VCO with hard sync will do: reset the waveform. Useful for either tracking another VCO (though it doesn't change the actual pitch, just cut the cycle off part way), traditional hard sync sounds, or resetting an LFO.

For some crazy glitchy sounds, try putting it in Morph mode, patching output 2 back into the sync, then modulating parameter Z. If the bank you choose for output 2 has complex waveforms with lots of hard edges, it'll cause the pitch and timbre to jump around in raucous yet interesting ways.
X15
Thanks! It sounds pretty interesting with some wavetables smile
paults
I am now "caught up" with black panel E352 orders from the web shop.

www.synthtech.com/shop

Currently quoting stock to 2 weeks shipping on new orders.
brandonlogic
I was thinking a one shot mode (non looping wave form) would be amazing to have as an additional mode on the e352, so you could use the wavetables as a morphing envelop generator (similar to Sample Player mode on the e370). so a trigger in the reset input would trigger two simultaneous wavetable envelopes!

Paul said it maybe be possible if the e352 has the power to add this mode.
So keep your fingers crossed and hopes up! really excited about this and hope it works out on the e352!
Azarius
Wow! What a great idea! Hope this is something that could be done... opens up so many interesting possibilities!
Kummer
I really hope this can be done as well! PLEASSSSSE Paults!!!!! we're not worthy
nashsnazzy
Stupid question, could I use something like an e352 and a ribbon controller to approximate a Swarmatron?
paults
Yes, with a much wider tonal range (ie the Morphing Cloud Mode)
Rafi
Love mine, thanks to this thread I'll push it's potential Driving
sendepause
Hahahaha... This module is bonkers!
Luv it...

Besides the kick and the hat, it's all E352.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BnoKz4el2uR
Dragonaut
Can anyone tell me what voltage range the outputs on the e352 are sending?
emeb
Dragonaut wrote:
Can anyone tell me what voltage range the outputs on the e352 are sending?


Same as most other Synthtech modules - roughly +/-5V. Depends on what waveform you're using though - it's possible to load user-defined waves in with much lower amplitude.
zerodivide
hi all! Just got my e352. Was wondering if you guys could help me replicate a patch from this Perfect Circuit video (54 secs to 1:23 mins)
https://youtu.be/1qlSuoZfZqs?t=54


Is it just 2 sines in the 2-op-FM mode? would love some help replicating this patch! thanks in advance!
Eurtrude
zerodivide wrote:
hi all! Just got my e352. Was wondering if you guys could help me replicate a patch from this Perfect Circuit video (54 secs to 1:23 mins)
https://youtu.be/1qlSuoZfZqs?t=54


Is it just 2 sines in the 2-op-FM mode? would love some help replicating this patch! thanks in advance!


Yep, this seems to be a patch made with 2 sines in 2-OP-FM mode.

In order to achieve this percussive-like tone, an AD enveloppe seems to have been patched into the CV X (FM amount).

It seems to have some kind of modulation into the FM input too (very very low though, as you can see the FM knob is almost CCW), but I can't say what is is for sure. Maybe an other enveloppe to give more percussive body to the sound ?

Anyway, the enveloppe thru the CV X alone (2 sines - FM mode) will give you those type of sounds smile
Dragonaut
emeb wrote:
Dragonaut wrote:
Can anyone tell me what voltage range the outputs on the e352 are sending?


Same as most other Synthtech modules - roughly +/-5V. Depends on what waveform you're using though - it's possible to load user-defined waves in with much lower amplitude.

Thank you much!
zerodivide
Eurtrude wrote:
zerodivide wrote:
hi all! Just got my e352. Was wondering if you guys could help me replicate a patch from this Perfect Circuit video (54 secs to 1:23 mins)
https://youtu.be/1qlSuoZfZqs?t=54


Is it just 2 sines in the 2-op-FM mode? would love some help replicating this patch! thanks in advance!


Yep, this seems to be a patch made with 2 sines in 2-OP-FM mode.

In order to achieve this percussive-like tone, an AD enveloppe seems to have been patched into the CV X (FM amount).

It seems to have some kind of modulation into the FM input too (very very low though, as you can see the FM knob is almost CCW), but I can't say what is is for sure. Maybe an other enveloppe to give more percussive body to the sound ?

Anyway, the enveloppe thru the CV X alone (2 sines - FM mode) will give you those type of sounds smile


thanks so much! will try!
loorenz
Good news, firmware 1.3 is coming :

https://www.facebook.com/ptschreiber/videos/10213303409161694/

From Paul T Schreiber :
"I see your VCOs with ‘sub-oscillator’ and “dual mode” and raise you E352 morphing detuned mode via free firmware update. And more to come. Detune range (Out2 relative to Out1) -2.5 to +2.5 octaves on a exponential scaling."

"Added new menu feature to select from list of dedicated intervals (3rd/5th/7th, etc)"

"Available in about 2 weeks, we are adding the other new mode which is the Sample Player from the E370 (and fixing a few minor bugs)."
bemushroomed
Really great love
Dragonaut
Sweet!
dooj88
jesus christ on a mushroom trip! yay!
paults
Features of the V1.3 beta are currently as follows:

DETUNED MODE
==============

OUT2 is detuned from the 'master frequency' of OUT1 (as set by COARSE/FINE/FM/1V/OCT).

OUT1 and OUT2 have independent wavetable banks, each with independent Z Morph CV (scans through all 64 wavetables in the bank)

* New option for Detune Src - "CV fixed" - CV input selects from among
the fixed ratios in realtime.

* New "Harmonic CV" control - when in a fixed ratio setting the CV X now
selects in real time among subharmonics, Fundamental and harmonics:

- 4th sub (-2oct)
- 3rd sub
- 2nd sub (-1oct)
- Fundamental
- 2nd harmonic (+1oct)
- 3rd harmonic
- 4th harmonic (+2oct)

Note that the apparent pot rotational width of the Fundamental setting is somewhat wider than the rest to help ensure it's easy to find.

* Revised fixed ratios. There are now 15 intervals plus a new Unison:

"-M7" lower Major 7th
"-m7" lower Minor 7th
"-H7" lower Harmonic 7th
"-P5" lower Perfect 5th
"-P4" lower Perfect 4th
"-M3" lower Major 3rd
"-m3" lower Minor 3rd
"Uni" Unison with continuous phase and harmonic select
"+m3" upper Minor 3rd
"+M3" upper Major 3rd
"+P4" upper Perfect 4th
"+P5" upper Perfect 5th
"+H7" upper Harmonic 7th
"+m7" upper Minor 7th
"+M7" upper Minor 7th
"Phs" Unison with phase control but no harmonic select

The fixed octaves are removed because they're accessible via the "Harmonic CV" control.

* 2nd osc output in "Uni" ratio is not "phase locked". Because there's a realtime CV setting for controlling harmonic, phase locking the Unison ratio when switching to the Fundamental harmonic setting causes an audible "click".

* If phase locking between the two outputs is needed then use the new "Phs" ratio which also allows continuously variable phase control.

SAMPLE PLAYER
==============

A USR Bank is treated as 1 giant 'sample file' (16K length) which can be played back with programmable start/end points.

* Sample player mode with CV X = start for chl 1, CV Y = start for chl 2 and CV Z = length for both channels 1 and 2.

* If start 1 + desired length > total sample size then effective length is automatically reduced to fit.

* If start 2 + effective length > total sample size then zeros are stuffed to keep channels 1 and 2 in sync.

* The wave view shows the start-end, just as in the E370

* The visualizer is "generic" - intend to add a visualizer similar to the one for the E370 with sample envelope and start/end indicators.
DSC
Of course, you rock nanners
Eurtrude
Wait... is it christmas yet ?

This is... BLOODY AMAZING ! Just what was missing for this fantastic oscillator smile

Thank you so much for this update !
evileye0702
Truly awesome Paul. Thanks for taking the time to add these features I'll definitely be using.
Hi5
Praise be w00t
brandonlogic
Thank you for the update.

paults wrote:

SAMPLE PLAYER
==============

A USR Bank is treated as 1 giant 'sample file' (16K length) which can be played back with programmable start/end points.


trying to put this into context. seeing the sample player only does 16K in size, seems it would not be as suitable for audio with that limitation, more just for modulation one shots?
also, no morphing involved in the sample player?
bemushroomed
brandonlogic wrote:

trying to put this into context. seeing the sample player only does 16K in size, seems it would not be as suitable for audio with that limitation


16K is enough for e.g a looped pad sound, though it can probably not be a very complex sample or you will hear it repeating.
brandonlogic
bemushroomed wrote:
brandonlogic wrote:

trying to put this into context. seeing the sample player only does 16K in size, seems it would not be as suitable for audio with that limitation


16K is enough for e.g a looped pad sound, though it can probably not be a very complex sample or you will hear it repeating.


right, but the purpose of sample player mode is one shots?
paults
Guessing 90% of the time, it will be used as 1-shots but I have clever users It's peanut butter jelly time! SlayerBadger! Guinness ftw!
paults
New E352 Cloud Terrarium firmware V1.3 released. Added features:

Detune Mode: continuous or fixed intervals, with independent wavetables and Z Morphing of each output. Unison mode (no Detuning) adds a 0-360 CVd Phase Shifter.

Sample Player Mode: treats the 33K Bank table as a Sample. Each output has a Start pointer (under CV control) and a common Length (0-100%). It's low-fi, it's fun, it's free smile

I need to re-write the E352 manual, but since the code is out of beta testing, and I'm not exactly know for being 'speedy', I went ahead and released it.

Thanks to everyone that suggested with emphasis (complained) about adding the Detuning Mode. We think it turned out "musically useful". Which is all Robert Rich's fault. And of course I just stand out of Eric Brombaugh's way and let him do all the DSP work. Thanks also to the beta testers that found 1 bug that was very 'deep' in the code.

http://synthtech.com/eurorack/E352/

Demo
https://soundcloud.com/paul-t-schreiber/e352_rrichdemo_dualdetunemodes eq
DSC
Locked and up-loaded!
Thank you thumbs up
Dogma
Yeah baby- thanks Paul
loorenz
Thank you Paul, it's like having a new module to explore thumbs up
paults
I have re-written the E352 manual to reflect the 2 new modes added to V1.3 firmware.

It's under the DOCS tab of the E352 product page here

E352 Product page
Bob Borries
Thanks for the update: the Harmonic fixed interval detune mode is very interesting and the 0 to 360 phase is great for LFO uses.
Destinova
I just picked up an E352 yesterday. Perfect timing with the new firmware release. I'm loving it so far and the detune mode is really impressive.
nodog
Wow, this is awesome. Can't wait to try it!
blackdown
a hole in my rack has the E352's name on.... fantastic module.
Mndscrpt
Hi! Quick question: is any mode capable of duophonic voice handling?
paults
Not 2 fully independent VCOs. The Detune is always an offset from the 'main' VCO.
brandonlogic
Two different sequences. One going into the v/oct, the other in the detune. Resulting in a transposition. really nice, very musically useful feature. going through the different internal detune quantization modes here.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1jLE1VUEbyaK5kM9QtE_Uk6AHWGsfm8TJ
j259
brandonlogic wrote:
Two different sequences. One going into the v/oct, the other in the detune. Resulting in a transposition. really nice, very musically useful feature. going through the different internal detune quantization modes here.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1jLE1VUEbyaK5kM9QtE_Uk6AHWGsfm8TJ


That's great. Your demos are always very musical!
mdoudoroff
paults, I think it would be nice to have those detune tables available in the pitch section of the E370 some day. Handy.
zerodivide
brandonlogic wrote:
Two different sequences. One going into the v/oct, the other in the detune. Resulting in a transposition. really nice, very musically useful feature. going through the different internal detune quantization modes here.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1jLE1VUEbyaK5kM9QtE_Uk6AHWGsfm8TJ



really nice!
paults
Quote:
paults, I think it would be nice to have those detune tables available in the pitch section of the E370 some day. Handy.


Maybe not exactly, but.....[cough]
dooj88
brandonlogic wrote:
Two different sequences. One going into the v/oct, the other in the detune. Resulting in a transposition. really nice, very musically useful feature. going through the different internal detune quantization modes here.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1jLE1VUEbyaK5kM9QtE_Uk6AHWGsfm8TJ


well i had a bunch of lpgs bongos from 3 different modulated wavetable oscs sequenced with an ASR going in a patch last night, but this update brings the module and patch to, in the words of pantera, "a new level of confidence and power."
JC14
Does the E352 come with a memory card? Just wondering since mine didn't...
loorenz
JC14 wrote:
Does the E352 come with a memory card? Just wondering since mine didn't...


No micro SD card included with my E352 too.
mdoudoroff
JC14 wrote:
Does the E352 come with a memory card? Just wondering since mine didn't...


Nope. Nor does it need one to operate.
tau_seti
I've got the new firmware loaded and am trying to figure out how detune mode works.

I have read the manual, but still have questions.

When I go to the visual displays, I see CTS in the legend under the graphics. What are CTS?

What is the difference between x and y Parma in this mode?
mgscheue
CTS is the amount of detune, in cents. Notice how it changes continuously when you vary the x parameter in smooth mode but jumps in steps of 100 in 12-tone mode. An equal-tempered semitone is 100 cents.

X controls the amount of detune, Y the wavetable that is fixed in pitch, and Z the wavetable that's detuned relative to Y.
mdoudoroff
paults wrote:
Quote:
paults, I think it would be nice to have those detune tables available in the pitch section of the E370 some day. Handy.


Maybe not exactly, but.....[cough]


From Facebook, yesterday:

paul: “We are 'helping' make it easier by placing standard detuning intervals into the default Chord Table.”

eric: “And allowing the X/Y inputs to drive FM so you can dial in a detune from the panel pots.”

paul: “Chord Mode + new FM Offset mapping. Will have code week after Thanksgiving”

nanners
tau_seti
mgscheue wrote:
CTS is the amount of detune, in cents. Notice how it changes continuously when you vary the x parameter in smooth mode but jumps in steps of 100 in 12-tone mode. An equal-tempered semitone is 100 cents.

X controls the amount of detune, Y the wavetable that is fixed in pitch, and Z the wavetable that's detuned relative to Y.


Thanks, that really helps.
dp
The main melodic line is e352 being fed two different sequences from Voltage Block

zerodivide
dp wrote:
The main melodic line is e352 being fed two different sequences from Voltage Block



your rack looks so similar to mine! albeit double the size heh. nice stuff. But wait how are you feeding 2 melodies to e352? Im not following
Eurtrude
zerodivide wrote:
dp wrote:
The main melodic line is e352 being fed two different sequences from Voltage Block



your rack looks so similar to mine! albeit double the size heh. nice stuff. But wait how are you feeding 2 melodies to e352? Im not following


I guess he is sending one melody to normal pitch CV and an other one to the X input in detune mode, so you can sequence the offset of osc 2 smile
dp
Yeah exactly one into v/octave other into x think the detune was in harmonic setting.
brandonlogic
I sent this to paul but thought i'd post here too.
How about adding a looping on/off option to the other current modes? Or at least morph? The sample player can be fun, but to use as a one shot envelop, it can be very hard to dial what you need. I’d like to simply be able to use waveforms from a wavetables bank as one shots. For example, these waveforms would make great envelopes, to dial them in just right in sample mode is a real pain, plus the cv position not very useful when using it this way. if you could simply turn looping mode off in morph mode, it would be a much better way, plus add the ability to smoothy morph the envelope!

would be grate for wavetables especially designed for envelope use!

denuir
Figured it out after additional searching. Thanks
zerodivide
Haven't gotten a chance to load the new firmware (need to buy an SD card heh) so I haven't really looked into the detune thing yet. I just assumed detuning was changing the cents of Osc 1 vs Osc 2. you can actually change semitones?
mgscheue
Yep! The options are smooth (continuously variable), fourths fifths and octaves, 12-tone (semitones), and harmonic series. There’s also uni-phase, which unison—no detuning, but phase shifting, instead.
Jumbuktu
dp wrote:
The main melodic line is e352 being fed two different sequences from Voltage Block



Love the polyrhythms on this. Rather TDreamesque!
lionelfischer
brandonlogic wrote:
I sent this to paul but thought i'd post here too.
How about adding a looping on/off option to the other current modes? Or at least morph? The sample player can be fun, but to use as a one shot envelop, it can be very hard to dial what you need. I’d like to simply be able to use waveforms from a wavetables bank as one shots. For example, these waveforms would make great envelopes, to dial them in just right in sample mode is a real pain, plus the cv position not very useful when using it this way. if you could simply turn looping mode off in morph mode, it would be a much better way, plus add the ability to smoothy morph the envelope!

would be grate for wavetables especially designed for envelope use!



this sounds like a good idea b
zerodivide
curious what envelopes and VCAs you guys are feeding your e352s into. I've been using the 0-coast's Countour to shape the e352 into plucky sounds in dual OP FM mode but I feel I need a dedicated envelope generator now for it
catchin
zerodivide wrote:
curious what envelopes and VCAs you guys are feeding your e352s into. I've been using the 0-coast's Countour to shape the e352 into plucky sounds in dual OP FM mode but I feel I need a dedicated envelope generator now for it


The Rossum Electro Control Forge was installed alongside my E-352. It's an amazing way to manipulate all the sound dimensions in the Cloud Terrarium. I owned a E-340 before this, and honestly the E-352 is exactly what SynthTech was missing. They've nailed it as far as an osc is concerned.
Pighood
Just pulled the trigger on a 352 from Detroit Modular (h/t to Trent).

Do the ones being assembled/shipped at this point come with 1.3?
Dragonaut
You could call him back and ask him. They might even update it for you if it isn’t already.
Pighood
I mean I pre-ordered a unit that has yet to be shipped to DM.
Mndscrpt
zerodivide wrote:
curious what envelopes and VCAs you guys are feeding your e352s into.


I recieved my optomix yesterday, both outs run into it. Sounds super organic and strong! The vca of my Borg 2 wasn't that pleasing. Classic ADDAC 802 also sound solid, not so plucky but great for longer basslines and such. Guinness ftw!
As env i used maths so far and malekko quad Envelope. It will be replaced with zadar, really excited for this combination!
paults
Quote:
I mean I pre-ordered a unit that has yet to be shipped to DM.


Yes, it will have V1.3 installed.

I will be shipping to Detroit Modular their E352s around Tuesday of next week. So, depending on THE AMAZON CLOG EFFECT, it may arrive to you a few days after Christmas.
Pighood
Wheeeeee wavedoggieeeeeez fap fap fap...
Pighood
Just curious...has anyone used the 2nd output to feed back into sync, 1v/oct or such to make the thing oink like I can do with my E-350?
zerodivide
Pighood wrote:
Just curious...has anyone used the 2nd output to feed back into sync, 1v/oct or such to make the thing oink like I can do with my E-350?


never thought to do this, will try it now thanks!
organon
Is there any recommendation for alternative (i.e. smaller) knobs? I love the module but the X Parameter sitting right next to the coarse tune is kind of ruining the playability. I don't think these are the standard Alpha pots with 6mm shafts.
paults
a) the pots are BI P260 series. About as far removed from $0.45 Alphas as possible.

b) they are 1/4" (6.3mm) diameter. I'm sure there are many alternatives. You will need a 1/6in Allen/hex key to remove.
starthief
The Davies 1900h clones from Thonk worked well enough for me on the E352. Narrow enough to give an extra little bit of room for comfort, and they don't look bad.



(photo is from October 2017)
Keltie
Pighood wrote:
Just curious...has anyone used the 2nd output to feed back into sync, 1v/oct or such to make the thing oink like I can do with my E-350?


Yes. It does indeed oink, like a lil pig in cute red boots.

I typically use the sine harmonics wavetable into FM, which is pretty straightforward, other times get audio rate scanning of out 1s wave, cloud params etc etc.

Gets kinda noisy quite quick, good for perc sounds. Not so much straight synth voices for me, but if you like harsh noise, maybe...
brandonlogic
ambient drone voice throughout this track is e352 in detune mode through magneto.
[s]http://soundcloud.com/brandon-logic/modular-sketchbook-12-19-18[/s]
Pighood
Mine arrived today....loading it up with 3rd party tables fap fap fap...

Question for paults: once you've loaded a bank into one of the User spots, do you have to keep the uSD card in the module, or can it be removed?
mgscheue
You can remove it.
Pighood
mgscheue wrote:
You can remove it.


So the 352 has sufficient on-board memory to hold 8 banks at a time?

There are 127 banks in that patch sharing repository....it would be nice to see the name of the actual file rather than A-H.
mdoudoroff
Pighood wrote:
mgscheue wrote:
You can remove it.


So the 352 has sufficient on-board memory to hold 8 banks at a time?

There are 127 banks in that patch sharing repository....it would be nice to see the name of the actual file rather than A-H.


Yes!
Pighood
Perhaps in the next firmware upgrade, this can be increased.....

*makes paults sammich of his choosing*
organon
@paults @startthief
Thanks for the suggestions about the knobs! The Davies really don't look too bad on it.
Also the potentiometers that are used here are an impressing investment in quality and longevity that a lot of manufacturers wouldn't be willing to make. That's pretty cool.
dhoinjo
Not sure if this is the right thread to ask but would it be somehow possible to have the E352 produce a square wave that goes up to 32kHz?
I am looking at buying a Z3000 to clock the processor of my ZDSP because I need an oscillator with a square wave that goes up to 32kHz to take the clock back to the original speed.
If I can do that with the E352, I don't need to buy the Z3000.
starthief
dhoinjo wrote:
Not sure if this is the right thread to ask but would it be somehow possible to have the E352 produce a square wave that goes up to 32kHz?


Sure. Create a custom wavetable that has 4 cycles in a single table entry, and play it at 8kHz. Sines would probably do okay for a clock, so you could create that by raising a single slider in WaveEdit.

(Disclaimer: I don't recall the max sample rate and haven't actually tried this...)
dhoinjo
starthief wrote:

(Disclaimer: I don't recall the max sample rate and haven't actually tried this...)


Not too familiar with technical stuff like this and I lack the tools to measure this properly. My spectrum analyser goes only to 15kHz. Basically I don't really know what I'm doing.
starthief
Yeah, most tools like that will only cover the audible spectrum.

I'd say, go ahead and try the trick, and if it works it works smile
dhoinjo
starthief wrote:


I'd say, go ahead and try the trick, and if it works it works smile


my idea exactly thumbs up
shanebroderick
I just want to give a shout out to Paul / Synthesis Technology for having the best customer support that I have ever experienced.
jfprimeau
Anyone has sound examples of the new fixed detuning tables feature from the latest firmware? I'm curious as to how the 3rds/4ths/5ths/octaves/etc sound like, and what kind of sequenced "chord progressions" are possible.
brandonlogic
jfprimeau wrote:
Anyone has sound examples of the new fixed detuning tables feature from the latest firmware? I'm curious as to how the 3rds/4ths/5ths/octaves/etc sound like, and what kind of sequenced "chord progressions" are possible.

Did u see the demo I posted a few pages back?

Here:

brandonlogic wrote:
Two different sequences. One going into the v/oct, the other in the detune. Resulting in a transposition. really nice, very musically useful feature. going through the different internal detune quantization modes here.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1jLE1VUEbyaK5kM9QtE_Uk6AHWGsfm8TJ
jfprimeau
brandonlogic wrote:
jfprimeau wrote:
Anyone has sound examples of the new fixed detuning tables feature from the latest firmware? I'm curious as to how the 3rds/4ths/5ths/octaves/etc sound like, and what kind of sequenced "chord progressions" are possible.

Did u see the demo I posted a few pages back?

Here:

brandonlogic wrote:
Two different sequences. One going into the v/oct, the other in the detune. Resulting in a transposition. really nice, very musically useful feature. going through the different internal detune quantization modes here.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1jLE1VUEbyaK5kM9QtE_Uk6AHWGsfm8TJ


I hadnt. Sounds great, very convincing example! Thanks!
Szczepan
Hi there!
Could you please tell whats the lowest frequency which you can get from E352 Cloud Terrarium?
It's about sub bass frequencies
I can't find it anywhere.
I'm wondering whats the differnece between analogue VCO's sub base parts and this wavestables except warmth?!
Thx!
starthief
Szczepan wrote:
Hi there!
Could you please tell whats the lowest frequency which you can get from E352 Cloud Terrarium?
It's about sub bass frequencies
I can't find it anywhere.!


It goes down to very slow LFO rates, and unless I'm remembering wrong it can even stop completely. I do have a screenshot where it's at 79.2 seconds per cycle (0.0126 Hz) lol


Szczepan wrote:
I'm wondering whats the differnece between analogue VCO's sub base parts and this wavestables except warmth?!
Thx!


Oh boy. Dead Banana
dooj88
Szczepan wrote:
I'm wondering whats the differnece between analogue VCO's sub base parts and this wavestables except warmth?!
Thx!


cmon man, that's what all these cats are for
brandonlogic
Thanks to whoever uploaded the plaits wavetables to wave edit.
Any way we could get braids WMAP tables on there?
Eurtrude
Hello there,

I have a feature request for the E352, but I don't know if this is doable...

Could it be possible to make an option to address the FM input to only one oscillator ? It could be done by adding a line in the Frequency-Quantize menu, where you could choose the FM destination : both, osc1 or osc 2.

With this option, we could use osc2 output in Dual Detune mod to modulate the osc 1 only via the FM input, while using those detune scales to pitch osc2 relatively to osc1.
Also would permit to do FM on osc1 while having osc2 making a non-fm'ed sub in this same mode, etc.

That could be so awesome smile (at least for me...)
geremyf
I think you'd need an e370 for that.
skreetis
I’ve never really played around with my E352’s lfo mode until now, and it’s not behaving how I would expect it to at all. The range is set to low, yet the slowest it will go is just slightly under audio rate with the course, fine, and FM knobs at 0. The frequency page will say that the cycle is several seconds (or minutes) long, but the output is definitely not that slow. It works fine otherwise, as far as I can tell, so I assume there’s some form of user error. Am I missing something?
Pighood
I NEVER use the 352 as an LFO...since I retained the services of my E-350, it takes on those duties superbly.
emeb
skreetis wrote:
I’ve never really played around with my E352’s lfo mode until now, and it’s not behaving how I would expect it to at all. The range is set to low, yet the slowest it will go is just slightly under audio rate with the course, fine, and FM knobs at 0. The frequency page will say that the cycle is several seconds (or minutes) long, but the output is definitely not that slow. It works fine otherwise, as far as I can tell, so I assume there’s some form of user error. Am I missing something?


The frequency page is driven directly from what the internal oscillator is running. If you see faster oscillation that what's indicated on the frequency page then the first thing I'd suspect is that the waveform you're using is more complex than a basic sine/tri/saw/square and you're seeing the additional wiggles due to that.

Please try low range with the simplest possible waveforms and see if that helps.
skreetis
emeb wrote:
The frequency page is driven directly from what the internal oscillator is running. If you see faster oscillation that what's indicated on the frequency page then the first thing I'd suspect is that the waveform you're using is more complex than a basic sine/tri/saw/square and you're seeing the additional wiggles due to that.

Please try low range with the simplest possible waveforms and see if that helps.


Thanks for your suggestion. I gave it a try with a sine and it was still what I would consider to be middle-high speed. But, on a hunch, I checked out the FM setting on the frequency quantize page, and it was set to LIN H. I set it to EXPO and it is much slower now, in the range one would expect an LFO to go to. Kind of strange behavior, considering nothing was plugged into the FM jack, but hey, at least it works now!
starthief
Are you on the latest firmware? Did you try the FM quantization option? There's a small amount of inherent DC offset in the FM input, but the firmware can compensate for it pretty well.

Also Lin H is pretty extreme I find, and Lin M offers a nice wide usable range for most purposes.
emeb
OK - having FM set to Lin H will definitely cause the problem you mentioned. We created Lin H mode for crazy-wild modulation and as Starthief said it's got a pretty serious offset which will cause a large skew of the period in LFO mode. Lin M and Lin L or Expo modes are a better choice for accurate low frequency operation.
dooj88
Pighood wrote:
I NEVER use the 352 as an LFO...since I retained the services of my E-350, it takes on those duties superbly.


feel scummy shilling my own videos, but LFO in cloud mode with the chaos parameters can give some pretty cool shit

Pighood
Just for feces and guffaws bung a Maths into the mix hihi
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