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Is Moog Model 15 worth it , why ?
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> 5U Format Modules Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next [all]
Author Is Moog Model 15 worth it , why ?
Analog Music
Hey guys , I know it's subjective but curious to know your thoughts , pros and cons of the new Moog Model 15 Reissue ?
I haven't seen any reviews what so ever on it .

Do you think it's worth the the price ?
Do you think it will hold it's value ?
How do the clones out there truly compare (sound , build quality ) ?
Will it be truly limited edition or is that marketing hype and they start making gold ones ?
Or is it a waste of big bucks ?

I'm thinking about selling some gear and saving for one .
My main goal is to make great sounding music .
I make all kinds of different music from techno , house , R&B Soul , Rock ,Soundscapes , film score soundtracks , ambient , chill , experamental etc....

I have a Voyager XL , Oberheim Two voice Pro and a few other pieces that I will keep along with software etc..

I love analog sequencing Berlin School type arpeggios (love on a real train , Giorgio Moroder dance type , hypnotic lost in trance vibe ) so I would be adding a sequencer to it .

Just wondering if the Moog Model 15 Reissue is for me because it would be a great investment for me and would hate to be disappointed .
I'm wondering if the Moog truly has something special or magic to it's sound .
I decided not to go full eurorack for now because I enjoy the size of analog sequencers and also considering a Moon 569 .

Thanks for your thoughts and guidance on this .

Peace
robotmakers
Hi Analog Music,

Veteran forum members, bruised from years of "Is it worth it?" internet conflict appear to be wisely steering clear from this thread. Having no such adversity to anonymous synth conflict, I proffer my opinions without guarantee as to their value.

A significant number have been sold at the $10K price, and so therefore it is "worth it" to a significant number of people.

A few used reissue Model 15s have come up for sale, and I believe I've seen them in the $7,500-8,000 range. So, in the short term, there is price risk in purchasing one. In the long term, I wouldn't worry.

Clones can be assembled from the usual sources that should sound extremely close.

In my opinion, and I offer it only as my opinion, if you were to create two versions of a complete piece of music orchestrated with multiple synths first including your Voyager and then including a Model 15, there would be very few people who could reliably tell which was which in a double blind test.

For this sort of investment, I strongly recommend you try one out before buying.

Best of luck,
Roger

Disclaimer: I've owned modular Moog equipment and an RA Minimoog for 20 yrs.
Ockeghem
You could consider getting a hefty MU/5U system for that price, with more versatility.
Dotcom and maybe add a few good clones, and you could get really close to the magical Moog Modular sounds.
Your Voyager XL isn't bad either, slight differences!
The System 15 is using the 921 Oscillators, isn't it? and those don't sound like the older 901s, thumbs up
So objectively, it is hard to give advice, but here is my two cents. I have a big 5U/MU set of modules and a Minimoog and that is enough for now. Your mileage may vary.
ranix
The Moog Model 15 is 10k for 16MU and 4 CP modules.

For reference, my entire 88MU Synthesizers.com system was under 12k.

That shit needs to lay golden eggs to be comparable.
tobb
Quote:

Do you think it's worth the the price ?


yes,if you never plan to sell it.

Quote:
Do you think it will hold it's value ?


no
Mark11Audio
1.) No...

2.) No...

As a long time user of modular, 1978... and a previous owner of a LOT of Moog, including a System 35 with extras...

I no longer have that "I have to have the original" mentality, especially at the current pricing... in 1985, I paid $3500.00 for my entire System 35 !!! With Dual keyboards, a Moog Drum and a ribbon controller and S&H separate module...

There is so much out there, better pricing, more features per module, and just additional flexibility that the original just didn't / doesn't have.

So, as the subject line says: "Just my .02 cents" do the following...

Create an excel spreadsheet, on the top line, put $10,000.00

Then in each column, put down what you "could" get from all manufactures that interest you...

Moog
Moon
MOTM
Mos-Lab
STG Soundlabs
Synth-Werk
Corsynth

etc etc etc...

and weigh out the value per dollar and see if the Moog still "lights up" as you #1 choice...

if it does, and as someone else mentioned, if you never have any intentions of selling it... then "worth it" to YOU...

Good luck... thumbs up
ericD13
Mark11Audio wrote:
[color=red]
Create an excel spreadsheet, on the top line, put $10,000.00

Then in each column, put down what you "could" get from all manufactures that interest you...


Moon is now offering a nice 15p cabinet with power supply !

http://www.lunar-experience.com/cases.html
noddyspuncture
ranix wrote:
The Moog Model 15 is 10k for 16MU and 4 CP modules.

For reference, my entire 88MU Synthesizers.com system was under 12k.

That shit needs to lay golden eggs to be comparable.


Yes, but as you can't really compare the two, I'd say that price difference is about right...!?!
Ockeghem
If playing in an ELP tribute band, the RA Moog (or in a pinch, something in that league? Maybe Mos-lab, Synthwerk?) is the go-to synth. granted. For authenticity.
But if the OP is not doing an act where that is mission-critical, I don't know.
Only he can decide.
The sound is good on those Moogs, I have no doubt.
mutierend
There's an old expression that only rich people say: Don't spend other people's money. In other words, answering your question ("Should I buy a Model 15?") is not one that should really be answered in terms of whether you should spend $10k, but rather in terms of what we subjectively think you get for that $10k. So, let's go through your questions:

"Do you think it's worth the the price ?"

For me, no. Parsing "worth the price" as "a value for the money spent," I think that there are other options that provide a better value.

"Do you think it will hold it's value ?"

If you put its value in terms of dollars, that's really hard to say. Other Moog equipment of recent vintage has gone down in value.

"How do the clones out there truly compare (sound , build quality ) ?"

To my ears and fingers, the same and in some cases, better (no pun intended). But there's an important distinction to make. 5U doesn't necessarily mean "clone." Synthesizers.com is the closest to a clone, and their stuff is fantastic.

"Will it be truly limited edition or is that marketing hype and they start making gold ones ?"

It is limited in that they will only make so many. Limiting production gives a perceived value. Markets tend to value things that are limited because of design (like the Roland TR-808), speculation ("This will go up in value and I can sell it"), or exclusivity ("Only 125 of us get one").

You know that if Moog thinks they can make more money by making more Model 15s, they will.

"Or is it a waste of big bucks ?"

Asking us this question means, to me, that you think it is a waste of big bucks. Your whole line of questioning indicates to me that you want to feel better about not buying it. That's ok! There are lots of other things to spend $10k in the 5U world. Whether the $10k is a "waste" on the Model 15 really comes down to what you are going to get out of it. If you're planning it as an investment, I can tell you that it is very likely a waste and you would be better off putting that $10k into mutual funds.

You can build out an outstanding 5U system for $10k, incorporating modules from Synthesizers.com, Moon, STG, Analogue Craftsman, Corsynth, and others. It will take you into sonic territories way beyond what the Model 15 could for the same investment.

But it won't be a Moog. And if that bothers you, then no amount of reasoning or subjective opinions will convince you otherwise.
JohnLRice
It's hard for me to say since I've never owned any actual Moog modules.

If you were to get a cloned Moogish modular or some other modular and your creative efforts are going to be continually plagued by thoughts of "I bet this would have worked/sounded better if I had a REAL Moog?!" then I'd say it's definitely worth the high cost to get exactly what you feel you want and be able to freely move ahead with making music.

On the other hand if you get an actual Moog modular reissue and are hurting for money, you may find yourself wondering if you could have made life easier on yourself if you had gone with a clone of some sort . . .especially if you happened to hear someone else's amazing sounding Berlin School piece and then find out it was done on some other less expensive brand, a keyboard synth or a software VST! eek! hihi

Best to try both out if you can before you buy. Check dealers in your area for a Moog 15 and see if there are any local synth meets coming up so you can hear other brands in person. If you are in the greater Los Angeles California area head over to Noisebug since they are the largest 5U dealer in the USA . . . possibly even in the entire Western Hemisphere?! Last time I checked they have a Moog System 15 on the showroom floor as well as Moon Modular systems and many modules from other makers. If you are in the US, considering spending $10,000 or more on a modular, but not within driving distance if might be worth spending $300 to $600 on a cheap flight and hotel room to go spend a day at Noisebug trying things out?

But don't listen to me . . . when it comes to modulars my philosophy is somewhat similar to the best way to deal with an Alien invasion/infestation . . . meaning I think I should own ALL the things, it's the only way to be sure! lol SlayerBadger! screaming goo yo w00t nanners
MindMachine
Mos-Lab sounds REALLY good. I bet Larry Fast would even admit that, especially for the monies, MOS-LAB sounds REALLY good.

I have not played a re-sissue Moog modular.
MrNezumi
I can't/won't comment on whether the Model 15 is worth $10,000 or whether it will hold its value, but I will say that I find it interesting that after (nearly) two years the limited edition of 150 still hasn't sold out.
Analog Music
mutierend wrote:
There's an old expression that only rich people say: Don't spend other people's money. In other words, answering your question ("Should I buy a Model 15?") is not one that should really be answered in terms of whether you should spend $10k, but rather in terms of what we subjectively think you get for that $10k.

Sorry dude I did not ask this , I just wanted some thoughts on value sound and price to help in the decision making process but I see your point .


Quote:
You know that if Moog thinks they can make more money by making more Model 15s, they will.

What Prof do you have that Moog would lie to all of it's reissue customers about it being limited ?

Quote:
"Or is it a waste of big bucks ?"

Asking us this question means, to me, that you think it is a waste of big bucks. Your whole line of questioning indicates to me that you want to feel better about not buying it.

If I felt that way I wouldn't be hear , I would just not buy it .

Quote:
If you're planning it as an investment, I can tell you that it is very likely a waste and you would be better off putting that $10k into mutual funds.
When I say investment yes financial value is great but I mean more of an investment of many years of great sound and music making .
Quote:

You can build out an outstanding 5U system for $10k, incorporating modules from Synthesizers.com, Moon, STG, Analogue Craftsman, Corsynth, and others. It will take you into sonic territories way beyond what the Model 15 could for the same investment.
But will it sound as good as a Reissue and last as long ?

Thanks man I appreciate your help but I'm not looking for a huge wall of modular , I just want the best sound available on the Earth .
josaka
..never heard anyone say even the original model 15 was 'the best sound on earth.. "

for 10k.. you can build a small synth-werk or mos lab cab with 6 osc cp3 mixers some distortion and better 3rd party modulation options a sawster and more interesting filters that would 100% be better and sound "bigger" than a model 15..

edit.. less than 5k !

Analog Music
Thanks guys for your help .
Let me say that I'm more of a quality over quantity person .

I say this because I see several post saying , you could get so much more for the price of a Moog model 15 . But would I get the same quality and sound , would those systems last as long ?

I'm not looking for a whole wall of modular , I'm just looking for the best sound available on the planet and use it to make music .

I also like the live performance capabilities of the 15 because it looks portable .

So when Moog says hey this box cost $10,000 , what are they really saying hear ?
Are they purposefully overcharging like some have suggested hear or is It worth something more , than some of us can see ?
Analog Music
BTW anyone know the year the original Moog Model 15 came out and what the price was back then ?
Analog Music
[quote="josaka"]
edit.. less than 5k !


cool vid man thanks
josaka
Analog Music wrote:
Thanks guys for your help .

But would I get the same quality and sound , would those systems last as long ?


no reason why not these guys faithfully copy materials parts etc..

Analog Music wrote:

I'm not looking for a whole wall of modular , I'm just looking for the best sound available on the planet and use it to make music .


its a raging debate re quality.. one thing is for sure the price vs the difference is not there.


Analog Music wrote:

I also like the live performance capabilities of the 15 because it looks portable .

you can make a portable from the other companies and they sell 15's


Analog Music wrote:

So when Moog says hey this box cost $10,000 , what are they really saying hear ?

its a brand thing.. yes its good.. but ..yes they are overcharging.

you need to ask.. if it didnt say moog on it.. and you had a COTK 15 a Mos-Lab 15 and a Synth-Werk 15 and a no brand 15(moog) that cost 3x more.. what do you thing the outcome would be..?
Analog Music
josaka wrote:



Analog Music wrote:

So when Moog says hey this box cost $10,000 , what are they really saying hear ?

its a brand thing.. yes its good.. but ..yes they are overcharging.


you need to ask.. if it didnt say moog on it.. and you had a COTK 15 a Mos-Lab 15 and a Synth-Werk 15 and a no brand 15(moog) that cost 3x more.. what do you thing the outcome would be..?[/quote]
For me it all about the sound and build quality which one is made and sounds the best thats the one I want (subjective I know but still).
Analog Music
josaka wrote:



Analog Music wrote:

So when Moog says hey this box cost $10,000 , what are they really saying hear ?

its a brand thing.. yes its good.. but ..yes they are overcharging.


Wow , I come from a place where Moog is held in such high regard , I guess times are changing .
But do they still have that special sound that no one else has is the question ?
Analog Music
josaka wrote:



Analog Music wrote:

So when Moog says hey this box cost $10,000 , what are they really saying hear ?

its a brand thing.. yes its good.. but ..yes they are overcharging.


josaka wrote:
You need to ask.. if it didnt say moog on it.. and you had a COTK 15 a Mos-Lab 15 and a Synth-Werk 15 and a no brand 15(moog) that cost 3x more.. what do you thing the outcome would be..?

For me it all about the sound and build quality , which one is made and sounds the best is the one I want (subjective I know but still).
JohnLRice
Analog Music, while I love the look and sound of the Moog 15 and have wanted one for a very long time (at least since the second Larry Fast solo album came out we're not worthy ) . . if someone said to me that I have approximately $8,000 to $12,000 to spend right now on one of the best sounding synthesizers I might just try to get that beautiful little tube monster called a KNIFONIUM. w00t Maybe because I'm a bit saturated with modulars so something more different, rare and unique appeals to me at the moment? hmmm.....



[s]https://soundcloud.com/jonte-knif/ground-upon-open-strings-a3[/s]

josaka
basically.. if you have 10k and want it to say moog on it.. go for it.

if you want more for less go other routes..
Ranxerox
Plenty of threads about the origins of the classic Moog modular sound. Gist of it seems to be the combination of: 901 oscillators in master-slave configuration, CP3 mixer, 904 filter, original VCA design, power supply and wiring.

There's no magical fairy-dust sound effect coming from the Moog badge itself. So a decent clone system from the likes of Synthwerk is going to sound identical to an original Moog, barring the cumulative effect of 40+ years of aging to the original parts, which is impossible to simulate whether it bears the modern Moog logo or not.

If you are the sort of person that believes in the superstitious power of an icon, then you can spend the extra and feel comfortable knowing you overspent on branding to get as close to your goal as possible. If you're a more pragmatic sort you should save yourself a couple of grand and get a Synthwerk system.
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