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5U LFOs with potential for BPM sync?
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> 5U Format Modules Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next [all]
Author 5U LFOs with potential for BPM sync?
daveholiday
I guess that I already know the answer to this question but I thought I would toss it out there to see if I have overlooked something.

As with most digital controlled synths, there is usually a way to sync LFOs to a tempo related factor...notes/measures...etc. I would love to be able to do this with my modular, but I assume this is not possible without some digital "trickery" within the LFO circuit itself. My current LFOs are 2 dotcom Q167++ and 4 Q106, but these are my main oscillators as well.

The one feature that mine don't have that others do...Corsynth, Moon...is a retrigger feature. It seems this would get me closer as I would assume a simple gate signal could be used for the retrigger...right? I that is correct, it would be easy to sync the retrigger, but I would still have to manually adjust the rate for the proper effect?

In the end, I do have a solution by way of using the DSI PRO 2 LFOs assigned to the CV outs. But is there a way withing the 5U world that I am missing?

Thanks!
Ranxerox
daveholiday wrote:
I guess that I already know the answer to this question but I thought I would toss it out there to see if I have overlooked something.

As with most digital controlled synths, there is usually a way to sync LFOs to a tempo related factor...notes/measures...etc. I would love to be able to do this with my modular, but I assume this is not possible without some digital "trickery" within the LFO circuit itself. My current LFOs are 2 dotcom Q167++ and 4 Q106, but these are my main oscillators as well.

The one feature that mine don't have that others do...Corsynth, Moon...is a retrigger feature. It seems this would get me closer as I would assume a simple gate signal could be used for the retrigger...right? I that is correct, it would be easy to sync the retrigger, but I would still have to manually adjust the rate for the proper effect?

In the end, I do have a solution by way of using the DSI PRO 2 LFOs assigned to the CV outs. But is there a way withing the 5U world that I am missing?

Thanks!


Why can't you just connect a clock pulse at the appropriate subdivision, to the sync input on the Q106? That's what I'd do.

Or you could use a Schmitt trigger - like on the Q118 input module - to derive a pulse train from an audio input, and use that...
PrimateSynthesis
"Sync:Very unique feature that synchronizes LFO Rate to an external clock or other LFO. This is a great method of keeping LFOs in sync with sequencers etc. In SYNC MODE the RATE knob is used to set the sync division from 1-10 of the input clock. Each LFO can be set to a different division value creating a very powerful rhythmic source that can used to generate a wide variety of synchronized modulation sequences and beat patterns. Also SYNC division is Voltage controllable allowing division variable to be modulated by external or other LFO channels for even more complex patterns."

http://www.modcan.com/bmodules/quadLFO.html
daveholiday
Ranxerox wrote:
Why can't you just connect a clock pulse at the appropriate subdivision, to the sync input on the Q106? That's what I'd do.

Or you could use a Schmitt trigger - like on the Q118 input module - to derive a pulse train from an audio input, and use that...


I guess I really didn't think about the Hard sync in terms of running as an LFO. So the Hard sync would basically function like a retrigger on some of the dedicated LFO modules?

This is a work around of sorts, but it required me using my main OSC voices as LFOs....I may need to read up on the Q167++ to see if I can do the same thing with them!

Thanks for the tip...I will play around with them tonight.
J3RK
You could use a PLL as well, but a lot of factors go into that. (shape of clock pulse, options on the LFO being synced, etc.)
daveholiday
PrimateSynthesis wrote:

http://www.modcan.com/bmodules/quadLFO.html


I hadn't really considered Modcan as an option anymore. But that module seems to do what I am describing...perhaps the used market?
pulse_divider
SSL TTLFO

http://steamsynth.com/shop/moog-unit-modules/tap-tempo-lfo/
Flareless
pulse_divider wrote:
SSL TTLFO

http://steamsynth.com/shop/moog-unit-modules/tap-tempo-lfo/


Ok.... THAT is a nice module!
daveholiday
So the Q167++ gate input starts the envelope generator and the Sync of the oscillator. So I guess I have what I was after aside from adjusting the rate for the desired effect of the "looped" sequence.

I also assume, depending on the circumstance, that triggering a EG rhythmically with a gate signal would achieve what I am after as well.

I guess I just needed to think about this a bit more!! I get spoiled playing with the PRO 2 and all of its digital control and convenience!

I love hearing ideas from the veterans tho...keeps me experimenting!
daveholiday
pulse_divider wrote:
SSL TTLFO

http://steamsynth.com/shop/moog-unit-modules/tap-tempo-lfo/


Yup....That seems like very nice a solution....would be nice to have some BPM driven goodness driving the spread on my Dual WASP!
Flareless
daveholiday wrote:
Yup....That seems like very nice a solution....would be nice to have some BPM driven goodness driving the spread on my Dual WASP!


Now that's a damn cool idea! thumbs up cool
JohnLRice
daveholiday wrote:
PrimateSynthesis wrote:

http://www.modcan.com/bmodules/quadLFO.html


I hadn't really considered Modcan as an option anymore. But that module seems to do what I am describing...perhaps the used market?
The Modcan quad LFO is one of the most popular Modcan modules ever and they are rare to appear on the used market and snapped up quickly when they do so, if you want an immediate solution don't get your hopes up. cry cool
josaka
oakley dual lfo has 2 sync inputs..

also the 106(+most other osc) as said earlier and they have many outputs..

also you can run a simple synced lfo into a multi.. also you can buy simple splitters(mostly what I use)
PrimateSynthesis
JohnLRice wrote:
The Modcan quad LFO is one of the most popular Modcan modules ever and they are rare to appear on the used market and snapped up quickly when they do so, if you want an immediate solution don't get your hopes up. cry cool


Has anyone heard any recent news about Modcan? Last I heard, business was on hold because the owner had health issues. But that was a long time ago.
daveholiday
There have been a few recent posts about Modcan, but nothing that I recall being very specific about the status...

So if I have done my research correctly, and please chime in if I have gotten this totally wrong, this is what I understand so far.

I can, for example, send a gate signal to my LFOs to reset/retrigger them. If I want to reset/retrigger 3 different LFOs at different rates I will need to have 3 separate gates sent at the appropriate "time signature".

I assume that this is where gate/clock multipliers/dividers come in handy? I could send a quarter note pulse/gate and the use a divider/multiplier to then modify multiple outs of the divider/multiplier?

If this is correct...is there a simple solution for this in 5U? I don't think I need something as complex and the dotcom gate math...just a simple module to with options to multiply or divide. The Yusynth clock divider looks like the simplest option right now...just curious what else is out there.
josaka
you can always send a signal from one synced lfo to another which gives you many time division options..
introduce slew/adsr and you have all kinds of funky options..

the beauty of modular.. smile Dono-Kun Dance
kindredlost
Get yourself a Mega Ohm Audio LFO2. The LFOrg (one) section on top has a reset feature. A bullet-proof sync. It is a main reason I have four of them.
I hate to say it but Phil has the "dead-nuts-on" feature here. Very forgiving for almost any reset input signal.

sduck
The MOTM 320 LFO has a sync in that would work. Although it's general unavailability would probably make it a poor choice for you...
Tronman
kindredlost wrote:
Get yourself a Mega Ohm Audio LFO2.


Unfortunately, they haven't been available for a few years.
kindredlost
Tronman wrote:
kindredlost wrote:
Get yourself a Mega Ohm Audio LFO2.


Unfortunately, they haven't been available for a few years.

Bummer
josaka
kindredlost wrote:
Tronman wrote:
kindredlost wrote:
Get yourself a Mega Ohm Audio LFO2.


Unfortunately, they haven't been available for a few years.

Bummer


but the dual oakley LFO is and that covers most of the Maga Ohm LFO .. ! smile

http://www.krisp1.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8&p roducts_id=110

or you can get more crazy smile

http://www.krisp1.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8&p roducts_id=108
daveholiday
I think I have basic LFO duties covered with my current modules. Not to say I won't invest in ones more suited to my needs in the future! But I am curious if I am right about my assumptions about clock dividers/multipliers a couple posts up!
JohnLRice
daveholiday wrote:
I think I have basic LFO duties covered with my current modules. Not to say I won't invest in ones more suited to my needs in the future! But I am curious if I am right about my assumptions about clock dividers/multipliers a couple posts up!
It "can" work but it depends on what you are trying to do. And I can't remember if you stated or not what your intended use is. hmmm..... oops

For instance if you have a really slow sine LFO that you occasionally reset with a gate, chances are there will be a sudden jump to zero volts, +5v, -5v or what ever the particular LFO does when it gets reset and that may or may not work in a particular patch.
Dave Peck
daveholiday wrote:
I think I have basic LFO duties covered with my current modules. Not to say I won't invest in ones more suited to my needs in the future! But I am curious if I am right about my assumptions about clock dividers/multipliers a couple posts up!


Not necessarily - it depends on the LFO frequencies relative to each other and relative to the main clock.

For example, let's say your track is running at 120 BPM, which is two beats per second. And you want LFO 'a' to run at that rate, and you want lfo 'b' to run at a third that rate (half-note triplets).

You can send a clock with BPM of half the track BPM (60 BPM, one pulse per second) to both LFOs.

Set the frequency of LFO 'a' to run at twice the clock rate, so you get two cycles of the LFO before the clock re-triggers it and keeps it sync'd to the beat.

Set the frequency of LFO 'b' to run at three times the clock rate, so you get three cycles of that LFO before the clock re-triggers it and keeps it sync'd to the beat.

As long as all of the LFO rates in the track are running at some relatively simple mathematical ratio, you can set the re-triggering clock and the LFO rates to tempos (frequencies) that will do what you want and keep them all in sync.
daveholiday
Thanks JLR...my intention with be resetting things rapidly to moderate...16th notes, 1/8th...1 measure for perhaps bassline modulations repeated every measure. So any artifacts that might come up with resets might just add to the overall rhythm!

Dave...What you described is exactly what I want to play around with. I want to be able to send a common clock but use simple multiply/divide to get different retrigger rates on each LFO. I know that I will have to manually adjust each LFO rate to suit the patch, but I can live with that!

Thanks to you both for the advice...now to try and find a simple clock divider!!
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