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Korg Monologue thread
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> General Gear Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next [all]
Author Korg Monologue thread
Phil999
there's often a bit of confusion about microtuning. Generally it is better to have a sound generator that does microtuning, not the note generator.

The Monologue does exactly this, it outputs standard notes from keyboard or sequencer, and applies the microtonal scales in the synthesiser. Therefore it is not possible to use Monologue's microtuning in external gear.

For Eurorack there are a couple of solutions. With Tubbutec's uTune module for example it is simple to load the same .scl file as in Monologue.
/\/\/\/\/\/
jshell wrote:
So no, I do not expect the Monologue itself to transmit whole or microtonal scale settings on a per-note basis through MIDI.


No, I don't expect it will either - fortunately I guess there are other things will do that, although possibly a little less satisfyingly with no bonus monosynth attached - it would have been pretty nice, though!

Phil999 wrote:
Tubbutec's uTune
Yep I saw the thread here when they were developing it, looks a fun module. Midi to mirotonal midi is only planned though, not currently something it can do, from the notes on the site unfortunately. Looks super useful anyway, for those with Eurorack.

Will probably end up picking up a monologue up at some point.
Phil999
for MIDI to microtonal MIDI there are some software solutions like Scala with its built-in Relayer.

The Monologue is a very good piece of gear in every aspect. Very good editor software that allows quick arrangment of presets and scales.
GovernorSilver
windspirit wrote:

B) My girlfriend has been enjoying the monologue so much that she got a minilogue to compliment it. We were envisioning using one synth to sequence the other so that they were sort of tied together but and maybe the monologue could turn the minilogue sequence info chords or arpeggiate it or something.


I suspect all these low-cost Korg analogs that have built-in sequencers were designed with the idea is you run each sequencer independently and use a sync cable to sync them up. None of them were designed to be a "master" to any of the others.

So just use the Minilogue's own sequencer to sequence itself and the Monologue's for the Monologue. Connect the two with a sync cable. Now both should be in sync.
GovernorSilver
/\/\/\/\/\/ wrote:
Does the monologue transmit its custom scales? i.e. if you did use it as a basic controller keyboard, just notes not parameters, can you play another module/synth in the custom scale loaded on the monologue?


Somebody asked the same question earlier in the thread, but I haven't gotten around to testing the Monologue's MTS implementation (see earlier posts).

Of course, even if it does transmit tunings via MTS, the receiver must also understand MTS. Very few synths have any MTS implementation at all. This article lists some: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIDI_tuning_standard
/\/\/\/\/\/
GovernorSilver wrote:
MTS


Ah, that was what I'd seen referred to, couldn't remember the acronym or where it was. Thanks!
Phil999
didn't know about MTS.
windspirit
GovernorSilver wrote:
windspirit wrote:

B) My girlfriend has been enjoying the monologue so much that she got a minilogue to compliment it. We were envisioning using one synth to sequence the other so that they were sort of tied together but and maybe the monologue could turn the minilogue sequence info chords or arpeggiate it or something.


I suspect all these low-cost Korg analogs that have built-in sequencers were designed with the idea is you run each sequencer independently and use a sync cable to sync them up. None of them were designed to be a "master" to any of the others.

So just use the Minilogue's own sequencer to sequence itself and the Monologue's for the Monologue. Connect the two with a sync cable. Now both should be in sync.


My point is that they included this feature which could have easily had an option to turn it off. The monologue sequencer is moderately unique in that it has an actual keyboard and the 16 step sequencer so its great for playing live or could be great for layering/ sequencing other synths. It sucks that they crippled a unique feature in case someone wanted to do what, record their knob turns into a DAW? Seems short sighted to me.
chvad
operative word is budget. kind of goes hand in hand with "less" and or short sighted. sometimes it's intentional. the Elektron A4 AK for examples. Great sequencers. Won't sequence external (midi) gear. Why compete with their own products? Case in point... Korg have the electribes. They'll sequence external gear all day. im sure its not an oversight on korgs behalf. They just want you to buy more gear.
GovernorSilver
windspirit wrote:


My point is that they included this feature which could have easily had an option to turn it off. The monologue sequencer is moderately unique in that it has an actual keyboard and the 16 step sequencer so its great for playing live or could be great for layering/ sequencing other synths. It sucks that they crippled a unique feature in case someone wanted to do what, record their knob turns into a DAW? Seems short sighted to me.


The Minilogue also has a keyboard and 16-step sequencer, so I'm still unclear as to why you feel a need to sequence it from the Monologue, instead of having the Minilogue run its own sequencer, with a sync cable connecting the two (assuming you want both sequencers to be in sync).

Why don't you want to use the Minilogue sequencer to sequence... the Minilogue? Why does it have to be the Monologue?
GovernorSilver
chvad wrote:
operative word is budget. kind of goes hand in hand with "less" and or short sighted. sometimes it's intentional. the Elektron A4 AK for examples. Great sequencers. Won't sequence external (midi) gear. Why compete with their own products? Case in point... Korg have the electribes. They'll sequence external gear all day. im sure its not an oversight on korgs behalf. They just want you to buy more gear.


The Monologue and Minilogue were designed by Tatsuya "Tats" Takahashi, while the Electribes were not.

Tats has admitted in interviews to designing synths primarily for himself - minimal techno seems to be his thing. There's definitely something minimalist in all his designs.

As to why there are quirks like MIDI CC messages that can't be turned off, who knows... I didn't buy my Monologue thinking it'd be my master sequencer for all my Volcas and whatnot, thats for sure.
windspirit
We do it both ways, minilogue sequencing monologue as well as monologue sequencing minilogue. The monologue is more immediate since recording in new notes replaces them instead of overdubbing and all 16 steps are available at once. Technically wouldnt adding the cc transmit feature require more work than just leaving it alone?
GovernorSilver
windspirit wrote:
We do it both ways, minilogue sequencing monologue as well as monologue sequencing minilogue. The monologue is more immediate since recording in new notes replaces them instead of overdubbing and all 16 steps are available at once. Technically wouldnt adding the cc transmit feature require more work than just leaving it alone?


woah

That's a very different way of thinking. I prefer to keep things simple, until I'm forced to try something harder. Good luck with that.

I plan to use an external sequencer for my Monologue and Volcas when the time comes, as the Monologue's internal sequencer can also act as a "super LFO/modulator" instead of the traditional step sequencing role.
dubonaire
I have to say that when I considered paying only $300 for a monosynth with a keyboard I didn't get too hung up on what external sequencing features it didn't have. I never saw it as a master device but definitely something to be played. It's cheaper than many Euro oscillators alone.
GovernorSilver
The Monologue sequencer is pretty coupled to the internal synth engine. With only 16-steps, you can at best sketch out a musical idea, or use it for very repetitive music, if you want to use it the traditional way. The real power is in the 4 parameter automation lanes - thus using the sequencer as a super-LFO to add a lot of movement/life to your sound.

I think the MIDI CC send is intended to be recorded into a DAW or other master MIDI sequencer, so that when you hit play on the master sequencer, the MIDI CCs reproduce the intended performances of the envelope, filter, etc.

Thus you can hit play on your Pyramid/Cirklon/Ableton Live-loaded laptop, then wave your hands in the air to exhort your gyrating dance crowd, while Pyramid/Cirklon/Ableton plays your hott beatz and does all your filter sweeps, wobbles, and whatever on your Monologue for you.
jabberwalky
One of my biggest issues with the Monologue is the envelope behavior.

I don't like how it resets to zero on every key press. It should behave more like older envelopes and continue at the level it was on last key press.
windspirit
dubonaire wrote:
I have to say that when I considered paying only $300 for a monosynth with a keyboard I didn't get too hung up on what external sequencing features it didn't have. I never saw it as a master device but definitely something to be played. It's cheaper than many Euro oscillators alone.


Im trying to use it like a groove box away from the computer. We liked it enough to get a minilogue and a totally arbitrary feature made it so that we couldn't use both synths together unless we wanted to only use analog sync. Just seems short sighted to me.

Even stuff like the keystep doesn't really have the same kind of sequencing features as the monologue where there is a combo of an actual keyboard and 16 step x0x style sequencer combined. Im sure there are other similar options out there but off the top of my head I can't think of anything, especially not in the price range.
GovernorSilver
windspirit wrote:

Im trying to use it like a groove box away from the computer. We liked it enough to get a minilogue and a totally arbitrary feature made it so that we couldn't use both synths together unless we wanted to only use analog sync. Just seems short sighted to me.


Oh man... If you wanted a groovebox, you should have just gotten a groove box.

With your Monologue-Minilogue setup you're making your life harder than it needs to be. The sequencers on both synths are poorly suited to constructing and playing whole songs, unless your music is very simple and repetitive.

Since you sound unhappy w/ the Monologue, you should sell it and get an Electribe instead. Heck, sell the Minilogue too. A current model Electribe runs about $400 new. The Novation Circuit might be worth checking out too - there's the regular version and the one that comes with built-in analog monosynth for more money.
windspirit
I actually have a circuit already. Im part of the electribe group on facebook and have done a fair bit of research, it is largely people complaining about bugs and features that are poorly implemented. Ive messed with one in person and it just doesn't sound that interesting to me.

I feel like you folks are missing the point here. The minilogue has the feature that I am talking about built in (turning off MIDI CC messages for the knobs). The monologue doesn't. The monologue came out after the minilogue. Who decided that this wasn't an important feature?

Again, Im building the external gear to filter out the MIDI CC messages, again I love just about everything else about the monologue (except for the bug that I mentioned earlier). Again I feel like the omission of this (already implemented in the sister synth) feature is just bone headed design.
GovernorSilver
windspirit wrote:


I feel like you folks are missing the point here. The minilogue has the feature that I am talking about built in (turning off MIDI CC messages for the knobs). The monologue doesn't. The monologue came out after the minilogue. Who decided that this wasn't an important feature?

Again, Im building the external gear to filter out the MIDI CC messages, again I love just about everything else about the monologue (except for the bug that I mentioned earlier). Again I feel like the omission of this (already implemented in the sister synth) feature is just bone headed design.


Well, I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I still don't get why you really would choose the Monologue's sequencer, over that of the Circuit's or Minilogue to sequence the Minilogue. It seems like you're doing things the hard way. BTW, if you don't use the Minilogue's own sequencer, you give up the 4 lanes of parameter automation.

OTOH, it's not my intention to put you on the spot about your choice. I'm sure you have your reasons for doing what you do. Good luck with your MIDI CC filter project.
estin
Still really digging my monologue. Most fun, and best sounding mono I have owned. I'd love to see a monologue + with 37-44 korg slim keys, 3 vco's, 2 full ADSR's plus a multimode filter. Would buy instantly. I'm tempted to snag the KARP oddy and MS20 mini due to similar form factor.
ziggomatic
Agree, I am still absolutely loving the Monologue, and also finding myself lusting after an MS20. Cirklon + Monologue has been endless amounts of fun.

Also even considering getting the Minilogue at some point because of how much fun i've been having with the Mono. Great job on these Korg.
softroom
jabberwalky wrote:
One of my biggest issues with the Monologue is the envelope behavior.

I don't like how it resets to zero on every key press. It should behave more like older envelopes and continue at the level it was on last key press.


You and I must be in a very small minority of people who notice/care about this. Someone in Korg does know how to code superb envelopes though as those of the Radias are particularly good. But this rtz behaviour has cropped up here and there since the Prophecy; it even appeared in the MonoPoly VST. When I pointed out that isn't how a real MonoPoly behaves, the guys at Korg essentially replied 'tough titty'.
Panason
It's not the same company that made serious synths like the MS series, the Wavestation, Prophecy, Wavedrum, Radias....
Rex Coil 7
softroom wrote:
jabberwalky wrote:
One of my biggest issues with the Monologue is the envelope behavior.

I don't like how it resets to zero on every key press. It should behave more like older envelopes and continue at the level it was on last key press.


You and I must be in a very small minority of people who notice/care about this. Someone in Korg does know how to code superb envelopes though as those of the Radias are particularly good. But this rtz behaviour has cropped up here and there since the Prophecy; it even appeared in the MonoPoly VST. When I pointed out that isn't how a real MonoPoly behaves, the guys at Korg essentially replied 'tough titty'.
Using the "TIE" (and/or perhaps the "REST") feature within the sequencer provides a sorta-kinda facsimile to that affect.

Realtime? Dunno. I don't use my Monologue as a realtime keyboard (per se). The keyboard is nothing more than a means of entering sequencer notes as well as the occassional edit or transposing a sequence on the fly. After that, the keyboard may as well be little buttons that are painted like keys.

I use mine to sync-up with my drum machines. As a part of a groove ensemble (Monologue plus SR-16) with the way the notes on the Monologue are switchable on and off, in combination with the drummer, it creates a very nice, BEASTY, groove ensemble. It's so simple to include/drop out a note/beat on the monologue, and with a running drum groove it works out to be tons of fun.

If one wishes for more features (such as switchable multi/single triggering) then you're going to have to spend more money. I feel as though the Monologue is ridiculously low priced for the contents within it's box! But it was never meant to be a realtime performance synth with a feature laden keybed that permits expressive playing. Set your sights (much!) higher if that's your intention.

Start looking at man sized keyboards and synths if that's your end goal.

To me, a performance synth keyboard has 61 keys, with full-on velocity (both attack velocity and release velocity) and well executed after touch. This describes most any synth outfitted with a FATAR keybed (one of their better "synth touch" models such as the TP-9). It should be noted that the Minimoog D reissue is outfitted with a TP-9, as are the 61 note Kurzweil synths, the Dot Com QKB61, and a few others that escape me at this instant. None of those listed synthesizers are $300 bucks. The bare bones Dot Com 61 note keybed is $475.00 .... and that's for just a keybed with MIDI I/O. No wheels, no buttons, no wooden sides, no power supply, no LCD screen. That should give folks an idea of what it costs to have full featured realtime playing ability. The 37 key version of the Dot Com is still $375.00

I'm just attempting to make a point here.

So if you're wanting Minimoog quality performance features (like having the ability to switch between multiple triggering and single triggering), you're going to have to spend more money than $300.00. Features like that come standard on synths designed for actually playing them with their keyboards. "Mini keys" or "slim keys" are not keyboards, Those are on/off switches that happen to appear like little keyboards.

Sorry for all of the tough love, but let's be honest with ourselves. Instruments and devices such as the Monologue, Minibrute, and so on are designed down to a cost. To me, the Monologue is an outstanding little synth, I dig the modern sounds it creates, with a ton of live performance features. But playing live with one, using the supplied keyboard, isn't it's sword arm. Use a (far) better keyboard/synth that was designed for that, MIDI them together, go like hell! You still won't have single triggering, unless you use the "TIE" feature in a prepared sequence.

If you want "it all", you're gonna have to spend "it all" to get there. These are simply facts.

(not subbed, btw).

cool
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