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Asking for advice: 250e vs 252e in a 18U system
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Buchla, EMS & Serge  
Author Asking for advice: 250e vs 252e in a 18U system
olesandström


Downsized my system to the 18U above. I have also a touch plate in an external frame. The 258 will be a DPO from Doug once it's out.

Very satisfied and don't want to change a thing. Except that I feel a strong attraction to the 252e. So I am playing with the idea of replacing the 250e with the 252e.

In this setup, will I lose anything by doing that? 250e is more hands-on but from everything I have seen and heard, the 252e does most of the things the 250e can do and what it can't I can do with the help of other modules.

Just asking for thoughts about this to make sure I don't miss anything.
mirf59
....

I can't help you on 250e v 252e, but I do have a question, if you don't mind. Do you miss having enough envelope generators and VCAs? You've got a bunch of sound sources in there, and only four channels to use. I ask because I am wondering how many audio signals ever really get used simultaneously in these larger systems. (mine is only 9U, with 3U available for expansion to 12U). I bought a Euro blade and stuck a quad VCA and two ADSRs in there so I'd have all six mixer channels available, and I'm at half your total system size. Just curious how you thought this through.

...
jsheaucsb
Well the 227 has 4 VCA's, so that system has 8 total.

I think the system looks great personally. I think the 252e is an outstanding sequencer for tonal/metric music. I love mine for that purpose. If you want an analog knob per step sequencer, 250e is the only e game in town. If I were you, I'd sacrifice the 251e and the 210e or even the 225e [if you get the firmware update card, you can do midi over USB with a software update - see sticky at the top of the buchla forum…though you would lose preset storage]. Then add a 252e you'll have both sequencers.

My 2 cents anyway
dkcg
I'm not sure if the 251e or 252e can interpolate between steps, but the 250e is also a very nice complex envelope generator too. I don't know if the 251e or 252e have jump steps, but the 250e's jump steps are a really cool way to do some complex sequences from simple steps.

I had 2 250e's at one point. That was really cool, but I think a 250e and a 251e might be better than 2 250e's.

That said, I have one 259e now, and have been using a Eardrill Pendulum Ratchet for rhythmic divisions along with the clock dividers in the 225e, but one day....I'll get a 252e for rhythmic stuff. Not that the 250e is bad for rhythmic work, but the 252e looks pretty sweet for that. While the 251e looks pretty sweet for polyrhythmic melodies.

The solution: Get a 24 boat, get the 252e and 250e, and maybe even the 251e. Fill the boat, then think some more about what's next (like once in a while I want 2 296e modules for vocoding, but that's one expensive impulse buy.

jsheaucsb wrote:
Well the 227 has 4 VCA's, so that system has 8 total.



The 256e is sort of a CV VCA if you crossfade between nil and your CV. So sorta 4 more, but not.


And when just making plucking sounds with the LPG, the pulses out of the 250e sound very nice and strong. Stronger than the 281e with rise and fall set to the lowest, great for bonjo sounds. But 1 281e is OK, but two are better. I also make some envelopes from pulses and a 255, good enough, but not as good an envelope from a 281e. If I didn't have the 255, I would definately have a second 281e in my 24 boat system.
mirf59
jsheaucsb wrote:
Well the 227 has 4 VCA's, so that system has 8 total.


Holy shit. Really? Hmmm. I'm going to have to hit the modular planner site.

Thank you for opening my eyes.

...
emp
They are not very similar, especially considering the workflow. Both are amazing sequencers. Personally, i tend to do very different things with the 252e than the 250e. The former obviously inspires to do polyrhythmic/polymetric stuff that you can't do with the latter. I'm not very fond of "playing" sequencers though. I prefer to program the basic patterns and use presets to switch between them and focus the performance part on other parameters. If i had to pick one i think it would be the 252e because of the rhythmic flexibility. But it's indeed a hard choice.
olesandström
Thanks for the input.

Going 24U is not an option, I want/need to stay 18U.

I don't miss a second 281e + 292e in this system. I had two of each before in my bigger system, which was a nice and easy way to go, but there are workarounds and I am ok with only having one 281e + 292e in a 18U.

Interesting suggestion to let go of the 251e and the 210e. I guess, the polyrythmic abilities of the 251e will be replaced by the 252e which will make a complementary partner to the 250e... but not sure if I can live without the 210e. I'm not using it a lot but when I do, I am happy to have it. I want to keep preset and midi abilities too, so letting go of the 225e is not an option.

Getting rid of an oscillator is also something i am afraid of. Two might be enough but I like to have different flavours in my system.

Need more thinking...

Anybody else owning/having owned all three 250e, 251e, and 252e who wants to chime in?
Knarzwaltz
Sell the 250e get a Cirklon.. you got MIDI why not use it smile ..and you then got plenty of control voltage to.
emp
Knarzwaltz wrote:
Wait 20 years and get a Cirklon..

Fixed! wink
olesandström
A Cirklon would be nice, but yes, waiting list for now...

Anway, for now I prefer sequencing from within the system.
Knarzwaltz
emp wrote:
Knarzwaltz wrote:
Wait 20 years and get a Cirklon..

Fixed! wink


Just like buying from B&A or BEMI then Mr. Green

Hur länge har du haft 252e? ..jag måste fan få komma prova/titta...Snälla! smile
Knarzwaltz
olesandström wrote:
A Cirklon would be nice, but yes, waiting list for now...

Anway, for now I prefer sequencing from within the system.


Also you got the MARF..... if you want more hands on.
cyberdine
I've got a 250e, 251e and 252e. I'd say the biggest drawback for me is that you can't slave the 252e clock thru CV - you have to use MIDI. The other drawback of the 252e is that I find the timing a little sloppy - annoying for a module that is supposed to generate precise rhythms. Other than that though it's super flexible.
emp
Knarzwaltz wrote:
emp wrote:
Knarzwaltz wrote:
Wait 20 years and get a Cirklon..

Fixed! wink


Just like buying from B&A or BEMI then Mr. Green

Hur länge har du haft 252e? ..jag måste fan få komma prova/titta...Snälla! smile
Det är KMH som har en. Vi styr upp en titt! Själv har jag bara en 250e. Stackars mig!
deltaphoenix
252e is fun but I didn't find it essential. I ended up choosing a 250e over it. My thinking was that I have a Pyramid sequencer and a 225e. The Pyramid does Euclidian sequencing (and more), plus it does accept CV in so it can be modulated by the Buchla (via a format jumbler).

The 252e wins in sexiness and awesome light shows. IF space and $ were not a consideration, I would still have a 252e.
woVERTICES
They're both sexy devices...but I LOVE the pulse subdivisions the 252e offers!
Best,
John
www.johnjpotter.com
dkcg
woVERTICES wrote:
They're both sexy devices...but I LOVE the pulse subdivisions the 252e offers!
Best,
John
www.johnjpotter.com


Not exactly the same, but the 225e has quite a few midi clock dividers.
neubauer
I would let go 251 and 256
olesandström
Knarzwaltz wrote:
Also you got the MARF..... if you want more hands on.


I have played with a MARF for a couple of weeks and it is lovely but just too big for my system.

Guess I will let go of the 251e and one other module, yet to be defined....
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