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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

C'mon developers/BEMI, let's have "e" versions of
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Buchla, EMS & Serge  
Author C'mon developers/BEMI, let's have "e" versions of
mirf59
......

Third parties and BEMI (.... "Bueller?"), let's have "e" versions of

1. The pendulum ratchet;
2. The 297 phase shifter;
3. The 259 analog;

and ...

.......
numan7
<<stupid joke deleted>>


cheers
mirf59
numan7 wrote:
Miley Cyrus ...and 4. your mama!



cheers



?????
Waz
Is there a set of dev tools for 200e stuff? I think the patch recall firmware is proprietary and locked.
Happyanimal
You can already scratch the P\R off that list right out the gate.
jsheaucsb
252e does most of what P/R does if I'm not mistaken
mritenburg
Waz wrote:
Is there a set of dev tools for 200e stuff? I think the patch recall firmware is proprietary and locked.


I thought it was the primo version code loader that's locked.

Regardless, I'd love to see a true 259 in e format.
Happyanimal
jsheaucsb wrote:
252e does most of what P/R does if I'm not mistaken


I don't think so, wouldn't mind having both. My comment was more related to the fact that eardrill is most likely dormant for good. You're not gonna get Chris to rework P\R for "e" capability. There's not many knobs on that module to begin with- mainly jacks.
dkcg
DougCL has developed a dual analog oscillator that can save presets. It's similar to a 258 but a few feature additions like crossmodulation without patching. I think he is close to done developing. So the presets are doable, but Doug holds the secret. I remember Chris Muir saying that the PR could do presets if he knew how to code for Buchla's proprietary firmware. Would be great if he got togeyhet with Doug for the secret sauce.

Look for the DPO thread for more info on Doug's dual e compatible oscillator.
missingtwin
Cool thread mirf.

I want a 255e.
mirf59
...

I'm thinking, "why doesn't BEMI approach Chris Muir" or whomever, "and buy the IP for the P/R," or whatever?

Doesn't this seem like an obvious thing to do? I haven't fiddled with either the P/R or the 252e. But, I remember, before the 252e, posts here that Don had a P/R in his system. It seems like maybe 252e was Don's response to the P/R.

But, P/R is one rack space. P/R is featured in many many more badass rhythmic tracks that I've heard on the Internet. With all due respect to Don, it seems like people have gotten more bang from the P/R as compared to 252e. I hope I don't burn in Hell for saying so.

Also, for a small system, like my little 12U, it's tough to commit 2 rack spaces to a funky rhythm maker.

And on the DPO, why didn't BEMI think of this first? It's kinda weird to me. As I look through Muff, the 258 is an extremely popular sound source. Seems like a no-brainer that you'd see that and respond with a version of it that works with all the "e" functionality.

Maybe it's easy to be armchair QB. I guess I'd like to see more imagination from BEMI.

....
krv
Dual analog osc. nothing else...please...
dkcg
krv wrote:
Dual analog osc. nothing else...please...


Have you seen/heard this oscillator?
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=185124
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=185318

I would love to see something like an acoustic modeling module/karplus/resonator/comb filter monster time based synthesis and general fuckery module. The Roman 289 in e format could get close. Mainly I want to see karplus synthesis, granular delay tools in the module would be a welcome bonus.

Buchla 200e needs time based effects/synthesis...
razzmtazz266
hey if you know how to turn on a computer...

get a bus pirate, and e-module and a preset manager.....start looking atmel stuff
you are not far from e stuff....
mirf59
....

Who is staying awake at night dreaming up new modules at BEMI? Right now, BEMI looks like Apple without Steve Jobs.

....
sempervirent
I'll offer a modest defense of those module designers (such as myself) who choose not to add "e" functionality to their modules.

1) There are only so many memory slots within a preset manager, and they are reserved for specific modules. Jon / divisionbyzero shared some details in this thread. There's an upper limit on the number of modules that the preset system can support, and third-party designers would all have to agree on allocation of the preset slots (good luck).

2) If BEMI were to offer a firmware update that changed the way the preset system works, your third-party "e" module could break (perhaps in ways that are expensive to roll out in the form of field updates). This could even be done deliberately to disallow integration of third-party modules with the preset bus.

3) B&A / BEMI apparently had issues with system stability and implemented hacks such as delaying the boot sequence of certain modules. DougCL has stepped in with his solution for 200e lockups but people with larger 200e systems know that stability can suffer as the system becomes more complex. If the inventors of the technology can't fully resolve this, new designers have an uphill battle to avoid creating something that interferes with "real" 200e modules in all possible configurations and firmware revisions.

4) 200e has a cost of entry that puts it out of reach for many. Whether you support the clones or not, there are probably more Buchla users now than at any time in the past, and building the core Buchla modules in DIY form has a lower cost of entry that covers much of the same ground. With BEMI's prices going up over time, designing modules with preset support means chasing a smaller share of an already small market. It's one thing to release a 258e, which most 200e owners will buy. It's another to release a quirky module that people don't quite understand.

5) When it comes to modular synths, some people simply prefer a knob-per-function interface where what you see is what you get. No computers, no firmware updates. In this paradigm, preset support could ironically make a module less desirable because its external state does not reflect its internal state. Personally I'd love to add a few modules like the 250e and 251e to my system but it's not worth buying a preset manager for just a few modules. Without a preset manager, "e" modules have limited utility because they boot up in a different state than the controls indicate, and lose their settings when powered down.

mirf59 wrote:
And on the DPO, why didn't BEMI think of this first? It's kinda weird to me. As I look through Muff, the 258 is an extremely popular sound source. Seems like a no-brainer that you'd see that and respond with a version of it that works with all the "e" functionality.

Another post from Jon / divisionbyzero discusses this (apparently it was a concept that diverged from the original idea and became something else).

mirf59 wrote:
I'm thinking, "why doesn't BEMI approach Chris Muir" or whomever, "and buy the IP for the P/R," or whatever?

For the record, I've tried to contact Chris multiple times during the past year about licensing the P/R and have never received any response. I'm guessing he's checked out of the Buchla game entirely and doesn't want to think about it anymore (though if he happens to read this, I'm still interested in re-releasing the module).
mirf59
sempervirent wrote:
I'll offer a modest defense of those module designers (such as myself) who choose not to add "e" functionality to their modules.

1) There are only so many memory slots within a preset manager, and they are reserved for specific modules. Jon / divisionbyzero shared some details in this thread. There's an upper limit on the number of modules that the preset system can support, and third-party designers would all have to agree on allocation of the preset slots (good luck).

2) If BEMI were to offer a firmware update that changed the way the preset system works, your third-party "e" module could break (perhaps in ways that are expensive to roll out in the form of field updates). This could even be done deliberately to disallow integration of third-party modules with the preset bus.

3) B&A / BEMI apparently had issues with system stability and implemented hacks such as delaying the boot sequence of certain modules. DougCL has stepped in with his solution for 200e lockups but people with larger 200e systems know that stability can suffer as the system becomes more complex. If the inventors of the technology can't fully resolve this, new designers have an uphill battle to avoid creating something that interferes with "real" 200e modules in all possible configurations and firmware revisions.

4) 200e has a cost of entry that puts it out of reach for many. Whether you support the clones or not, there are probably more Buchla users now than at any time in the past, and building the core Buchla modules in DIY form has a lower cost of entry that covers much of the same ground. With BEMI's prices going up over time, designing modules with preset support means chasing a smaller share of an already small market. It's one thing to release a 258e, which most 200e owners will buy. It's another to release a quirky module that people don't quite understand.

5) When it comes to modular synths, some people simply prefer a knob-per-function interface where what you see is what you get. No computers, no firmware updates. In this paradigm, preset support could ironically make a module less desirable because its external state does not reflect its internal state. Personally I'd love to add a few modules like the 250e and 251e to my system but it's not worth buying a preset manager for just a few modules. Without a preset manager, "e" modules have limited utility because they boot up in a different state than the controls indicate, and lose their settings when powered down.

mirf59 wrote:
And on the DPO, why didn't BEMI think of this first? It's kinda weird to me. As I look through Muff, the 258 is an extremely popular sound source. Seems like a no-brainer that you'd see that and respond with a version of it that works with all the "e" functionality.

Another post from Jon / divisionbyzero discusses this (apparently it was a concept that diverged from the original idea and became something else).

mirf59 wrote:
I'm thinking, "why doesn't BEMI approach Chris Muir" or whomever, "and buy the IP for the P/R," or whatever?

For the record, I've tried to contact Chris multiple times during the past year about licensing the P/R and have never received any response. I'm guessing he's checked out of the Buchla game entirely and doesn't want to think about it anymore (though if he happens to read this, I'm still interested in re-releasing the module).


Thank you, Semper. Makes sense.

....
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