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Shtar available!
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Ciat-Lonbarde  
Author Shtar available!
mbleming
Wow, Peter's Shbobo Shtar is available for purchase. Shbobo Shtar

Shbobo

Looks really interesting...
Doublecoolbossman
Rockin' Banana! Rockin' Banana! Rockin' Banana! Rockin' Banana! Rockin' Banana!
bartlebooth
yeah i've had a prototype for about 3 months or so..its rad!
Kalerne
It's gorgeous and extremely interesting! woah

But too bad it's also way above my budget for the next years... waah
wednesdayayay
oh boy I didn't really think I would be excited for this one (even though I get along with fish swimmingly)

but it looks much more beautiful than I anticipated

I'd love to see or hear anything you could offer up!

or details on how to incorporate new opcodes in patching

I have my eyes on the new grackler synth but I think I'm trying to hold of for the upcoming ovalsynth format stuber (I think last time I talked with peter that was at least a year away still shtar must be release!)
Repeater
bartlebooth wrote:
yeah i've had a prototype for about 3 months or so..its rad!


Had a blast playing the Shtar and paperface Serge at your place with Pat a few months ago. Thanks again for showing it.
rodrigo
Fuck me, that's exciting!
I've been amped over this since hearing bubblings about it aaages ago as my oldschool Namasitar is one of my fav Peter instruments.

It'll be a while before I can buy one, but that's jumped near the top of my list of stuff to buy...
rodrigo
bartlebooth wrote:
yeah i've had a prototype for about 3 months or so..its rad!


How does it compare to the original one?

I'm mainly thinking in terms of the electronic side of things. With the original one I used to really enjoy sweeping through the electronic tone while "riding" the contact make, using it as a kind of expressive monosynth/theremin type thing.

I don't know how the shbobo fares with smooth pitch changes that way (the audio demo from the page sounded like it had some portamento-type stuff that was really smooth).
sensanalog
Oh boy! Anyone have any demos up yet? I'm super intrigued!
bartlebooth
rodrigo wrote:
bartlebooth wrote:
yeah i've had a prototype for about 3 months or so..its rad!


How does it compare to the original one?

I'm mainly thinking in terms of the electronic side of things. With the original one I used to really enjoy sweeping through the electronic tone while "riding" the contact make, using it as a kind of expressive monosynth/theremin type thing.

I don't know how the shbobo fares with smooth pitch changes that way (the audio demo from the page sounded like it had some portamento-type stuff that was really smooth).


the biggest difference from namastitar is that rather than just having a ringmod effect, it now has full computer music (shnth). there is a 3-way switch, middle is acoustic only (it becomes a 17ET 4-string tar), up is acoustic + computer music, down is acoustic * computer music. note that multiply is done using a real stereo analog ringmod that peter designed just for this. there is also a piezo heart which acts like bar in the shnth, and bridge which is same as namastitar. there are also 2 knobs, top and bot, which can be used as parameters in any opcode (very useful)

speaking of opcodes there are a few new ones.. finger is a representation of the fret you're on, scale is an exp converter that changes finger to 17ET, ladder is like togo for 5bit/32 fret shtar, also very useful. there's also melody and worm (still being finalized) for looping series of notes or gestures. note that all the new opcodes will work on shnth too!

its really a beautiful instrument and sounds great both acoustically and as a really unique computer music synth.
adamon
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OYzw0LItDkw
windspirit
Hope to have one of these some day. Looks seriously gorgeous
wednesdayayay
just to be clear is the shnth heart essentially the same as the current shnth?

is there anyway to insert other sounds into it to access the ringmod effect?
like on the shnth there is a mic/input is that hardwired to the 'tar?

this is looking pretty sweet
rodrigo
bartlebooth wrote:
rodrigo wrote:
How does it compare to the original one?


the biggest difference from namastitar is that rather than just having a ringmod effect, it now has full computer music (shnth). there is a 3-way switch, middle is acoustic only (it becomes a 17ET 4-string tar), up is acoustic + computer music, down is acoustic * computer music. note that multiply is done using a real stereo analog ringmod that peter designed just for this. there is also a piezo heart which acts like bar in the shnth, and bridge which is same as namastitar. there are also 2 knobs, top and bot, which can be used as parameters in any opcode (very useful)

speaking of opcodes there are a few new ones.. finger is a representation of the fret you're on, scale is an exp converter that changes finger to 17ET, ladder is like togo for 5bit/32 fret shtar, also very useful. there's also melody and worm (still being finalized) for looping series of notes or gestures. note that all the new opcodes will work on shnth too!

its really a beautiful instrument and sounds great both acoustically and as a really unique computer music synth.


Awesome, thanks for the insight. I can't wait to see one further in action. Either way, the OG Namasitar is one of my favs, so this is definitely on my list of shit to get. I also look forward to seeing some more pictures of it too. The old one is amazing, but it's definitely....rustic. This looks like a much more luthier'd endeavour.
bartlebooth
wednesdayayay wrote:
just to be clear is the shnth heart essentially the same as the current shnth?

is there anyway to insert other sounds into it to access the ringmod effect?
like on the shnth there is a mic/input is that hardwired to the 'tar?

this is looking pretty sweet


yes, shtar is powered by a shnh brain, you use FISH to program it, everything works the same except some slightly different opcodes/names to make things more clear (barc and bard are heart and bridge, for example).

in general its designed so you can multiply (ringmod) the acoustic sounds by anything in Fish. There isn't a mic input per se, but there are two aux inputs for Eurorack signals; peter says you can run audio into them as well. I haven't tried that yet though
bartlebooth
rodrigo wrote:
bartlebooth wrote:
rodrigo wrote:
How does it compare to the original one?


the biggest difference from namastitar is that rather than just having a ringmod effect, it now has full computer music (shnth). there is a 3-way switch, middle is acoustic only (it becomes a 17ET 4-string tar), up is acoustic + computer music, down is acoustic * computer music. note that multiply is done using a real stereo analog ringmod that peter designed just for this. there is also a piezo heart which acts like bar in the shnth, and bridge which is same as namastitar. there are also 2 knobs, top and bot, which can be used as parameters in any opcode (very useful)

speaking of opcodes there are a few new ones.. finger is a representation of the fret you're on, scale is an exp converter that changes finger to 17ET, ladder is like togo for 5bit/32 fret shtar, also very useful. there's also melody and worm (still being finalized) for looping series of notes or gestures. note that all the new opcodes will work on shnth too!

its really a beautiful instrument and sounds great both acoustically and as a really unique computer music synth.


Awesome, thanks for the insight. I can't wait to see one further in action. Either way, the OG Namasitar is one of my favs, so this is definitely on my list of shit to get. I also look forward to seeing some more pictures of it too. The old one is amazing, but it's definitely....rustic. This looks like a much more luthier'd endeavour.


here's a picture that i have on my laptop that shows the scale of it a little better. the only real difference between this protoype and the production one is the color of the fretboard and piezo-hearts
wednesdayayay
oh wow
it looks like two cords are coming off of the bottom
is one audio and one USB
or do you get shnth on one output and acoustic on the other?

woah
bartlebooth
yeah one's audio and one's USB.
you can both acoustic and shnth sounds together with the switch up
rodrigo
Is the USB cable just to reprogram and/or charge the (presumably internal) battery?

Or does it need to be plugged in all the time?

Also, the are the 2 input jacks for euro stuff the ones next to the knobs?
bartlebooth
rodrigo wrote:
Is the USB cable just to reprogram and/or charge the (presumably internal) battery?

Or does it need to be plugged in all the time?

Also, the are the 2 input jacks for euro stuff the ones next to the knobs?


there is a battery so usb is just to charge/reprogram (though i usually leave it plugged in with a long cord)

yep they're the 2 inputs next to the knobs. with nothing plugged in the knobs act like rotary encoders; i assume if you put voltage in to the jacks it will get added/subtracted to the knob value (i don't have a euro system so hanve't tried it)
a9headbangingBABEWYN
this is really turning my head. talking my brother who plays strings to get into this, thinking of splitting it with him
The shbobo system scares me a bit though, i dont like computers.



Bartlebooth,

My question is regarding the "fish" and opcodes. Were you into the the Shbobo or Shnth before starting with the Shtar?

Also, battery? built in lithium?
Any info on this? How long does a charge last?


Would be interesting to hear what the inputs can do. If the inputs correspond to the tuning input on the IGM Keyboard this instrument is future now!


Is it simple menu diving and selecting to change the opcode (the ringmod multiplier?) If so i understand, as with the shnth?, you can its simple functions with a breeze but the difficulties come when you want to reprogram it with your own codes??? been watching those videos of workshops on the net...


Last thing...

Changing opcodes in fish, can you do this at the same time as you are playing the instrument, is there drop in sound/loading time to change the multiplier?
wednesdayayay
it sounds like the ring mod is its own circuit

you can change opcodes but it won't be in real time

I usually do my patching plugged into the computer (I enjoy the fish process of making patches so much) and all you have to do to upload is press command+y I believe.

I may end up getting another shnth V2 once I get my stuber patch and the stuber patch I found on here to a place where I like them both better

the sh'tar and the stuber are going to be an interesting combo when that time comes...
rodrigo
Actually this is a bit tangential, and I'm sure there's another thread for this somewhere, but is there a repository of contemporary Shnth patches? I've not Fish'd in years now actually, and still have the last batch of patches I used on there.

I guess getting a Shtar would kind of spark some new ideas on that front.
wednesdayayay
I started a thread over on the lines forum about shbobo patches but I think the old shbobo forum got kind of overrun by chubs

I would be happy to submit to a repository of shbobo patches
bartlebooth
a9headbangingBABEWYN wrote:
this is really turning my head. talking my brother who plays strings to get into this, thinking of splitting it with him
The shbobo system scares me a bit though, i dont like computers.



Bartlebooth,

My question is regarding the "fish" and opcodes. Were you into the the Shbobo or Shnth before starting with the Shtar?

Also, battery? built in lithium?
Any info on this? How long does a charge last?


Would be interesting to hear what the inputs can do. If the inputs correspond to the tuning input on the IGM Keyboard this instrument is future now!


Is it simple menu diving and selecting to change the opcode (the ringmod multiplier?) If so i understand, as with the shnth?, you can its simple functions with a breeze but the difficulties come when you want to reprogram it with your own codes??? been watching those videos of workshops on the net...


Last thing...

Changing opcodes in fish, can you do this at the same time as you are playing the instrument, is there drop in sound/loading time to change the multiplier?


battery is the same as in shnth, a 3pack of varta rechargeable NiMH. its okay for a short session of playing but for anything longer (and certainly for a gig) just get a long usb cable and charger, you have to have an audio cord plugged in anyway..

patching is the same as in the videos..its the same program (Fish) with a slightly refreshed interface and some new opcodes. if you reprogram while playing there will be a momentary pause while it reflashes the memory. however you can use the jump opcode to jump between patches (triggered by a certain fret) and then it will be seamless. that's what i'd recommend anyway
wednesdayayay
wow I hadn't though of using the frets to jump between patches
wow just wow

and you said that this new fish program will continue to work with the shnth correct?

thank you for all the info!
numan7
anyone see any of these in the wild yet?


cheers
bartlebooth
i've got one here if you have any questions
rodrigo
I got one a week or two ago, but in moving house haven't had a chance to even plug it in yet...
wednesdayayay
have you been using the new fish application?

I may have misread what peter was saying but is there something that happens when connecting the shtar and shnth via USB?
rodrigo
Oh interesting. I did open the new fish, but not with the Shtar plugged in, so don't know.

It does look like it has a kind of visualizer thing built in now, but I thought that was just for the Shnth.
numan7
i'm mostly curious about the accoustic aspects of the shtar.

i notice the fret spacing appears to be fairly constant over the length of the neck, for example, and wonder about the frequencies of the scale notes - i still need to sit down and caclulate the ratios of the effective string lengths when frets are being held down (although maybe i should just order one and play it to determine this kind of stuff)...

do the silver and brass screw positions correspond to diatonic scale notes? if so, how closely do they correspond?

it would really cool for ensemble-playing situations if it was relatively easy to find the base note for a given key and then be able to play exotic sounding in-between-note passages on the shtar in the vicinity of the key.

also, have you tried runnning the accoustic output through any effects pedals?



cheers
rodrigo
I have a Namasitar and now a Shtar as well, and I can say that the Shtar "acoustically" sounds worlds better. It's a much more nicely built instrument (physically/acoustically). I've not plugged it in through an amp yet to compare that way, but going on just the acoustic sound of the instrument.

Intonation and action and things like that are also worlds better.

With regards to the tuning stuff, this may help:
http://petermopar.blogspot.co.uk/2013/08/tunings.html

But basically with 17 notes to the octave, other than the octave themselves, none of the "normal" notes you know will be there. There will be notes that correspond to more perfectly tuned "versions" of those (see the blog post above), which correspond to the fret markers.

But you may have a hard time playing with this in the context of a "12 fret" band or group (unless you carefully consider the keys and tuning that the overall band uses).

I have run my Namasitar through amps and pedals and everything, and it sounds good. Because it is a contact mic on a piece of plexiglass as the "bridge", it can be prone to feedback if you run it very loud or with distortion etc..., but not as bad as if you had an acoustic guitar with a mic or anythign like that.

Hope that helps.
numan7
Guinness ftw! thank you for the helpful explanations, rodrigo!

i *think* i already have a reasonable idea of what the computer side of things will be like from having programmed and played the shnth...

it will be really cool having completely arbitrary pitch scaling of the shlisp-generated tones which can then be ring-modulated with the 17 tone accoustic scale notes, i suspect. perhaps this too could be helpful in tailoring the shtar for the afformentioned ensemble situations (which i imagine to be more on the abstract side and not necessarily 12-tone music oriented - not expecting to be able to use it as a banjo in a blue-grass band, for example, although i'm very curious to see how well the computer side can track fast playing in that style).

and wow, what an amazing, amazing just-b blog-post - one of the very finest i've ever read! we're not worthy


cheers
bartlebooth
numan7 wrote:
i'm mostly curious about the accoustic aspects of the shtar...do the silver and brass screw positions correspond to diatonic scale notes? if so, how closely do they correspond?


the silver screws indicate major intervals and the brass screws neutral ones, as found in arabic music. i find that the fret placement correponds pretty closely to those on a setar...in fact if you tune the first 3 strings to C-G-C you can pretty easily play persian folk tunes (transcribed to western notation by ali-naqi vaziri).
drwiener
numan7 wrote:
anyone see any of these in the wild yet?


cheers


We'd ve got one at patch point in berlin for trying in buying if you are in the area smile


Darrin
VauxFlores
Question on tuning - got a slight crash course in DC last weekend (thx Bartlebooth!) but this is... 17 notes per octave? Something else? Just-intoned at a particular limit? You know, the usual micotonal nerd questions.

Normally my attention span is a little better, but my intro to the shtar came at the end of a stupidly long day, in the middle of a stupidly long weekend. Not to imply it was a bad one - just busy. And long.
rodrigo
I think it's literally 17 step equal temperament.
bartlebooth
yeah the frets are set at 17ET.
though Fish still uses just intonation to set the oscillator tunings, so if you’re using the computer music section you can set any ratio you choose for that. the position of the switch then determines if the computer music gets added to or multiplied by the acoustic.
shinko
bartlebooth wrote:
rodrigo wrote:
bartlebooth wrote:
yeah i've had a prototype for about 3 months or so..its rad!


How does it compare to the original one?

I'm mainly thinking in terms of the electronic side of things. With the original one I used to really enjoy sweeping through the electronic tone while "riding" the contact make, using it as a kind of expressive monosynth/theremin type thing.

I don't know how the shbobo fares with smooth pitch changes that way (the audio demo from the page sounded like it had some portamento-type stuff that was really smooth).


the biggest difference from namastitar is that rather than just having a ringmod effect, it now has full computer music (shnth). there is a 3-way switch, middle is acoustic only (it becomes a 17ET 4-string tar), up is acoustic + computer music, down is acoustic * computer music. note that multiply is done using a real stereo analog ringmod that peter designed just for this. there is also a piezo heart which acts like bar in the shnth, and bridge which is same as namastitar. there are also 2 knobs, top and bot, which can be used as parameters in any opcode (very useful)

speaking of opcodes there are a few new ones.. finger is a representation of the fret you're on, scale is an exp converter that changes finger to 17ET, ladder is like togo for 5bit/32 fret shtar, also very useful. there's also melody and worm (still being finalized) for looping series of notes or gestures. note that all the new opcodes will work on shnth too!

its really a beautiful instrument and sounds great both acoustically and as a really unique computer music synth.


The Shlisp Tutorial Doc (and the great vids) have been wonderfully useful in getting a handle on Shlisp/Fish - any chance that there's a Shlisp Tutorial style doc for the new Shtar Opcodes? Or anyone here who can offer a bit of that? (esp ladder, finger/scale usage - [like I'm dropping scale in for a nume and finger into the scale - but tuning the deno with one of the knobs because I don't yet comprehend what scale/finger is ouputting into the nume], and v curious abt melody & worm)

I think I'm understanding most through bumping around with my Shtar (just got one!) but would love some manual style guidance too..!
bartlebooth
yep i'm planning on making a video tutorial for the new opcodes, just need to find the time. but its high on my list so hopefully will be soon!
horaflora
http://petermopar.blogspot.pt/2018/04/fish-20.html

FISH 2.0
horaflora
bartlebooth wrote:
yep i'm planning on making a video tutorial for the new opcodes, just need to find the time. but its high on my list so hopefully will be soon!


Trying to get a field recording to play through top and bot, having a hard time of it... mind uploading somethnig that will get line level audio to simply come through? using a stereo splitter into dual mono cables, all new cables cause I thought that was the prob at first....
horaflora
Would like tutorials on the Comb and maybe what one may do with external audio, are my suggestions, for when you get going w that again, thanks!
horaflora
bartlebooth wrote:
yep i'm planning on making a video tutorial for the new opcodes, just need to find the time. but its high on my list so hopefully will be soon!


S L O W L Y getting the hang of this, looking forward to shtar-centric tutorials.

PS, PB wrote me regarding audio inputs, said:

"well, let me explain something, the adc inputs on thos top/bot auxes are
not gonna be past a telephony (shitty) audio rate. since they are muxed
with the knobs, primarily a gesture input, it is not really for processing
audio but instead, for taking cv inputs from eurorack for example. does
that make sense?"

so, no need to answer earlier query about inputs!
igormpc
Quote:
"well, let me explain something, the adc inputs on thos top/bot auxes are
not gonna be past a telephony (shitty) audio rate. since they are muxed
with the knobs, primarily a gesture input, it is not really for processing
audio but instead, for taking cv inputs from eurorack for example. does
that make sense?"


is this true also for shnth v2?
i was thinking in selling my shnth v1 to buy a v2...
so shnth v2 is no good for an audio processing like a comb filter?
just for something like a bitcrusher?
i still think that someone could sync (using slave opcode?) a shnth v2 to an external clock... anyone using this way? sharing patches? smile
horaflora
igormpc wrote:
Quote:
"well, let me explain something, the adc inputs on thos top/bot auxes are
not gonna be past a telephony (shitty) audio rate. since they are muxed
with the knobs, primarily a gesture input, it is not really for processing
audio but instead, for taking cv inputs from eurorack for example. does
that make sense?"


is this true also for shnth v2?
i was thinking in selling my shnth v1 to buy a v2...
so shnth v2 is no good for an audio processing like a comb filter?
just for something like a bitcrusher?
i still think that someone could sync (using slave opcode?) a shnth v2 to an external clock... anyone using this way? sharing patches? smile


No. the V2 Shnth is audio input, NOT CV. anything you can process w the WIND mic input on V1 should work with a line input on the V2 just as well.
wednesdayayay
keep in mind it is a mono input

I would still like to purchase an additional V2 shnth one day for stereo processing MY ASS IS BLEEDING
rodrigo
So I finally had some time to play with my Shtar and loving it so far. Initially had some trouble uploading to it, but after doing a reset via the 'top fret' trick, it's working fine.

Going through the examp patches for Shtar too and some cool stuff in there.

I'm wondering if anyone has some more Shtar patches they wouldn't mind sharing? It's been (literally) years since I mess about with Shlisp and as much as I want to dig back into it (and plan on rewatching barblebooths great tutorial vids again), it'd be nice to have some more examples to hit the ground running with.

edit:
Man, those original tutorial videos are fantastic. Look forward to seeing new ones with the newschool opcodes.
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