MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index
 FAQ & Terms of UseFAQ & Terms Of Use   Wiggler RadioMW Radio   Muff Wiggler TwitterTwitter   Support the site @ PatreonPatreon 
 SearchSearch   RegisterSign up   Log inLog in 
WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Roland - is it the end?
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> General Gear Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next [all]
Author Roland - is it the end?
chaosick
dopefiend wrote:
chaosick wrote:
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch wrote:
So, fun fact which I just discovered:

Roland has an actual retail showroom in Surrey, BC, about half an hour from my house. I discovered this because it is in the same building as the place where you go to take the Canadian citizenship test, and when I looked up the latter, I also found the former. I haven't been there yet to check it out, but plan to soon. Will report back here on how lame it is after I do.

Incidentally, I'm just waiting for the call from the Canadian government to invite me to my citizenship ceremony. Looking forward to it. Being an American only just isn't doing it for me anymore (but no politics !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)


Fellow American here who's in the process of getting his P.R., also in Vancouver. Where you from?


Fellow American here who used to be a Mexican, and now LOVES the USA. Even if oversized jack-o-lanterns inhabit the WH out of season. Canada is too freaking cold!!!! And, to stay on topic: WTH are you talking about regarding Roland?


Not Vancouver; all the frigidity was transferred to the people.

Presumably he's talking about the fact that Roland is like a once beautiful prom queen who now sells her shriveled up plastic body on the street for crack.
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch
dopefiend wrote:
Fellow American here who used to be a Mexican, and now LOVES the USA. Even if oversized jack-o-lanterns inhabit the WH out of season. Canada is too freaking cold!!!! And, to stay on topic: WTH are you talking about regarding Roland?


Well, good for you. I live in Vancouver, and it isn't cold at all, and our national leader isn't a huge dick. I was just commenting that there is a "Roland store" here that I've never heard a single word about and have yet to check out.
JayEm
welcome to canadianhood, dr etch n sketch.

as of October 11th, if you're 55 and up, you don't have to take a test.
Norgatron
darenager wrote:
Roland should totally do some marketing analysis, based on "bloke on the internet"

Here is a start:

1. Bloke on the internet has big and clumsy hands
2. Bloke on the internet insists on everything being discrete analog
3. Bloke on the internet thinks it should no way cost over $100
4. Bloke on the internet will wait until the used market is flooded with these toys at a fifth of the original price.
5. Bloke on the internet always wants more outputs
6. Bloke on the internet wouldn't do it like that
7. Bloke on the internet would have done it different
8. Bloke on the internet hopes your company goes broke
9. Bloke on the internet says its ugly
10. Bloke on the internet says its way too big
11. Bloke on the internet says its too frigging small
12. Bloke on the internet says it should have Oled screen
13. Bloke on the internet has better knowledge of component pricing than your company
14. Bloke on the internet says it should be open source
15. Bloke on the internet knows more about R&D, marketing, pricing and technical matters than anyone at your company, you should hire me, I mean him.


I might make this my signature grin
dopefiend
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch wrote:
dopefiend wrote:
Fellow American here who used to be a Mexican, and now LOVES the USA. Even if oversized jack-o-lanterns inhabit the WH out of season. Canada is too freaking cold!!!! And, to stay on topic: WTH are you talking about regarding Roland?


Well, good for you. I live in Vancouver, and it isn't cold at all, and our national leader isn't a huge dick. I was just commenting that there is a "Roland store" here that I've never heard a single word about and have yet to check out.


Great....and although our current SCROTUS (So-Called-Ruler-Of-The-US) is quite hard to digest, I'd rather have him than the current POM (President Of Mexico). And I would love to check out the Roland store!!! hyper
chockfullofthat
The System 8 is wonderful.
WaveRider
chockfullofthat wrote:
The System 8 is wonderful.


yeah, if you love latency and jitter in your synths meh
chockfullofthat
WaveRider wrote:
chockfullofthat wrote:
The System 8 is wonderful.


yeah, if you love latency and jitter in your synths meh


Yes. I love it.
Joxer96
dopefiend wrote:


Fellow American here who used to be a Mexican, and now LOVES the USA. Even if oversized jack-o-lanterns inhabit the WH out of season. Canada is too freaking cold!!!! And, to stay on topic: WTH are you talking about regarding Roland?


Ditto. smile

Sssup, dopefiend?!
Scories
I searched youtube and found the answer precisely at 5:18 in this clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pYoHB5xrdU

wink
calaveras
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch wrote:
dumbledog wrote:
Oh haaaay, I live in Rancho Cordova, and used to do a lot of geocaching down Highway 16. Reminds me, I should take the drive up 49 soon now that the leaves are just starting to turn.


Rancho Cordova... isn't that where the Sunrise Mall is? It seems like we used to go there about every other weekend when I was a kid. Two years ago, my mom (RIP) was in and out of Mercy San Juan Hospital in Carmichael, and I stayed at my cousins' place just off of American River Dr. and got to spend a lot of quality time exploring Sacramento and environs. I really like Sacramento (when it's not stinkin' hot). It seems like a really user-friendly city.

I love driving Highway 49. Years ago, I bought a great book that has all the old landmarks along the highway in it, and discusses the history of the gold rush, etc. I was really into that stuff when I lived there. Amador County (and adjacent Calaveras and Eldorado Counties) is riddled with old mining paraphernalia, and my buddy and I used to traipse all over the countryside, trying to find old mines and tunnels and stuff. It was such a great area to grow up in, but I fear that it's not really anymore -- all the local industry seems to have disappeared, and Jackson feels a bit skeevy to me now (maybe it always was, and I just didn't know any better). When I'm out walking around, I'm always struck by how much the area around Jackson looks like Tuscany. I think that if the area were properly marketed, someone could make a killing.

At one point I was trying to move from Alameda to Calaveras county. But the work just wasn't there.

About Roland.
It's not just Roland that is doing this thing.
Back in the 70's and 80's there were a few Japanese companies that burned the candle at both ends, made their employees work 60 hours or more a week, and made the best possible products that they could to grab market share. The dollar and the yen were in their favor at the time. These days for Roland, Korg or Yamaha to make the same things that they made back then would cost prohibitively too much. You really have to see the inside of some of thee old synths and audio gear. Lots of handwired stuff. Bundles of wires neatly tucked away with waxed thread, Western Electric style.

SMT does engender some cost savings, yet we still don't see an SMT version of a CS80 or Jupiter-8.
It's just cheaper, and more profit margin, to make simulated versions.

I'm not terribly concerned. My music does not revolve around vintage gear making vintage sounds. I'm more excited by the stuff that Dave Rossum, Make Noise, Mutable, Bastl and Waldorf are making.
Oh yeah and Malekko. Can't wait for those little groovebox things to drop. Want the wavetabler. SlayerBadger!
estin
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch wrote:


Well, good for you. I live in Vancouver, and it isn't cold at all, and our national leader isn't a huge dick.


Huge fan of your designs Doc, but why preach "no politics" over and over while continuing to say your own piece? Also, as a US citizen I don't have any "leaders" I have public employees, whether or not they are a good one is another discussion.
mousegarden
Roland board meeting...

"Let's make cheap small things, and charge big prices for them, hhhmm? they do it at Korg, Yamaha too, we must act now, cos they sell bucket loads to gullible punter"

hihi
dubonaire
mousegarden wrote:
Roland board meeting...

"Let's make cheap small things, and charge big prices for them, hhhmm? they do it at Korg, Yamaha too, we must act now, cos they sell bucket loads to gullible punter"

hihi


But they are not doing that. They are making well made small synthesizers that sound great, integrate well and are fun to use for less than the price of many modules. In doing so they've satisfied the continuing demand for hardware synths that provide the timbral motifs found in much of the electronic music made in the last 30 years which has driven the prices of the failing originals to ridiculous levels.

There is nothing 'gullible punter' about about it. It's more about modest disposable income punter if anything.
mousegarden
dubonaire wrote:
mousegarden wrote:
Roland board meeting...

"Let's make cheap small things, and charge big prices for them, hhhmm? they do it at Korg, Yamaha too, we must act now, cos they sell bucket loads to gullible punter"

hihi


But they are not doing that. They are making well made small synthesizers that sound great, integrate well and are fun to use for less than the price of many modules. In doing so they've satisfied the continuing demand for hardware synths that provide the timbral motifs found in much of the electronic music made in the last 30 years which has driven the prices of the failing originals to ridiculous levels.

There is nothing 'gullible punter' about about it. It's more about modest disposable income punter if anything.


But that's the thing, I guess a lot of the people that buy these synths want to re-create the electronic music of the last 30 years. You only have to listen to all the demos on YouTube. How many more Moog/Roland lead/bass sounds do we need? How many boring analogue pads? But it's what people want, so...who am I to criticise.
Old synths are like steam engines, dirty, big, expensive, beautiful to look at, beautiful to play and listen to, it's a complete holistic experience, it's not just all about price, size, democratisation. Original sounds too, I'm not hearing much from these reissues, I guess modular fills the gap in this respect though, if that's what you're into.
Bottom line is that certain synth sounds have become standard, like violins and other instruments.
dubonaire
mousegarden wrote:
dubonaire wrote:
mousegarden wrote:
Roland board meeting...

"Let's make cheap small things, and charge big prices for them, hhhmm? they do it at Korg, Yamaha too, we must act now, cos they sell bucket loads to gullible punter"

hihi


But they are not doing that. They are making well made small synthesizers that sound great, integrate well and are fun to use for less than the price of many modules. In doing so they've satisfied the continuing demand for hardware synths that provide the timbral motifs found in much of the electronic music made in the last 30 years which has driven the prices of the failing originals to ridiculous levels.

There is nothing 'gullible punter' about about it. It's more about modest disposable income punter if anything.


But that's the thing, I guess a lot of the people that buy these synths want to re-create the electronic music of the last 30 years. You only have to listen to all the demos on YouTube. How many more Moog/Roland lead/bass sounds do we need? How many boring analogue pads? But it's what people want, so...who am I to criticise.
Old synths are like steam engines, dirty, big, expensive, beautiful to look at, beautiful to play and listen to, it's a complete holistic experience, it's not just all about price, size, democratisation. Original sounds too, I'm not hearing much from these reissues, I guess modular fills the gap in this respect though, if that's what you're into.
Bottom line is that certain synth sounds have become standard, like violins and other instruments.


That's a completely different point to your earlier post. But yes, there is a standard palate now, and some of these instruments just made great sounds.

But old synths are also too expensive, hard to maintain and big and heavy. And where I live I can't even buy any if i did want them. If you like old synths that's fine but how can that justify criticizing Roland for making new small copies? It makes no sense to me. The market is much bigger than people who want to spend lots of money on decaying electronics that lack spare parts.

Anyway I don't hear too many novel sounds from modular synths and Roland never made many attempts to be avant garde so I don't really understand why there is an expectation they should be doing that now. They are a company that sells synths.
mousegarden
dubonaire wrote:
mousegarden wrote:
dubonaire wrote:
mousegarden wrote:
Roland board meeting...

"Let's make cheap small things, and charge big prices for them, hhhmm? they do it at Korg, Yamaha too, we must act now, cos they sell bucket loads to gullible punter"

hihi


But they are not doing that. They are making well made small synthesizers that sound great, integrate well and are fun to use for less than the price of many modules. In doing so they've satisfied the continuing demand for hardware synths that provide the timbral motifs found in much of the electronic music made in the last 30 years which has driven the prices of the failing originals to ridiculous levels.

There is nothing 'gullible punter' about about it. It's more about modest disposable income punter if anything.


But that's the thing, I guess a lot of the people that buy these synths want to re-create the electronic music of the last 30 years. You only have to listen to all the demos on YouTube. How many more Moog/Roland lead/bass sounds do we need? How many boring analogue pads? But it's what people want, so...who am I to criticise.
Old synths are like steam engines, dirty, big, expensive, beautiful to look at, beautiful to play and listen to, it's a complete holistic experience, it's not just all about price, size, democratisation. Original sounds too, I'm not hearing much from these reissues, I guess modular fills the gap in this respect though, if that's what you're into.
Bottom line is that certain synth sounds have become standard, like violins and other instruments.


That's a completely different point to your earlier post. But yes, there is a standard palate now, and some of these instruments just made great sounds.

But old synths are also too expensive, hard to maintain and big and heavy. And where I live I can't even buy any if i did want them. If you like old synths that's fine but how can that justify criticizing Roland for making new small copies? It makes no sense to me. The market is much bigger than people who want to spend lots of money on decaying electronics that lack spare parts.

Anyway I don't hear too many novel sounds from modular synths and Roland never made many attempts to be avant garde so I don't really understand why there is an expectation they should be doing that now. They are a company that sells synths.


I've sold all of my decaying electronics.
And like you, I don't really hear much that's interesting coming from modular synths, it's either "generic randomness" or Tangerine sequences.
Strange how noise and random stuff all sounds the same after a while, it could be done by anyone.
People who I really admire, like Work Death, Tom Recchion, they use a lot of junk mixed in with cheap modern modules, old stuff. I think what I find pointless is when there are boxes that are designed to make a particular type of music as simply and easily as possible, almost just by pressing a button, but the skill is in subverting these things and turning them into something interesting. But some people buy them and just use them for what they are intended to do, that's not it at all, no way.
Muzone
mousegarden wrote:
....... But some people buy them and just use them for what they are intended to do, that's not it at all, no way.


It's not always about "arty weirdness", some people just like to have a bit of fun making music with their mates - what's "wrong" with that?
mousegarden
Muzone wrote:
what's "wrong" with that?


Nothing at all!

It's just something "I'm" not interested in, having fun that is, and arty weirdness is a serious business you know.

cool
dubonaire
mousegarden wrote:
Muzone wrote:
what's "wrong" with that?


Nothing at all!

It's just something "I'm" not interested in, having fun that is, and arty weirdness is a serious business you know.

cool


Again, that's a very different issue to
Quote:
Let's make cheap small things, and charge big prices for them, hhhmm? they do it at Korg, Yamaha too, we must act now, cos they sell bucket loads to gullible punters.


I've bought two Roland boutiques and I'm not a gullible punter. I have a huge amount of fun with them making music that is in no way original but is a lot of fun. I'm tempted to buy more because they are cheap, reliable and well made and it is so easy to make music people dance to while sitting in my living room and not needing kilometres of tangled power, midi and audio cables.
mousegarden
I'm just too cynical to believe that companies of any sort don't have just a smidgen of greed, a lot more in some cases.
I'll say again, about the modules themselves, they may not be for me, but I can understand why others would want them. I'm not having "any" fun making music right now, I've no interest in it whatsoever, so maybe that's having something to do with my perspective on all this.
I'm on here because I'm trying to jump start my interest in music, gear, listening to others, still feeling in some way comnected.
dubonaire
mousegarden wrote:
I'm just too cynical to believe that companies of any sort don't have just a smidgen of greed, a lot more in some cases.
I'll say again, about the modules themselves, they may not be for me, but I can understand why others would want them. I'm not having "any" fun making music right now, I've no interest in it whatsoever, so maybe that's having something to do with my perspective on all this.
I'm on here because I'm trying to jump start my interest in music, gear, listening to others, still feeling in some way comnected.


Companies employ people who have families, who want their kids to have a good education, who need to plan for retirement. When you make management decisions in a company you are also making decisions for the welfare of your employees. All of the companies we buy musical instruments from want to prosper. That is just the way of the world.

I have no idea if Roland is being greedy or not, but most people at the helm of companies just want to do a good job, especially Japanese companies. I suspect that Roland managers don't want to destroy the company the founder Ikutaro Kakehashi created, that is very much Japanese culture.

None of that really matters musically, what matters is they are providing us with cheap musical instruments with which to make music. Why is it any different to a Fender or a Yamaha piano or whoever makes saxophones, banjos or castanets?
grillo
mousegarden wrote:

But that's the thing, I guess a lot of the people that buy these synths want to re-create the electronic music of the last 30 years.
How many more Moog/Roland lead/bass sounds do we need?
Original sounds too, I'm not hearing much from these reissues, I guess modular fills the gap in this respect though, if that's what you're into.
Bottom line is that certain synth sounds have become standard, like violins and other instruments.


I kind of agree with the general sentiment here, if I understand you correctly, but I also strongly think this is not a fair criticism of Roland as a company. Their products are fine, and they dragged their feet long enough before tapping into that nostalgia factor.
The difference with 30 years ago though is that today almost anybody has access to an all-powerful tool in just a laptop, an internet connection and free software. There's kids doing weird cool stuff with just a bunch of samples ripped off of youtube and plugins, and it sounds cool.
When acid happened, you either had to get a hold of a 303 or you could just not get THAT sound. That is not the case today, I just don't think you can produce a piece of gear that can achieve that same kind of iconic status.
IR
dubonaire wrote:
I have no idea if Roland is being greedy or not, but most people at the helm of companies just want to do a good job, especially Japanese companies. I suspect that Roland managers don't want to destroy the company the founder Ikutaro Kakehashi created, that is very much Japanese culture.

I'm not sure being greedy has much to do with the discussion; their scope is to sell instruments people will like and buy.

Yeah sure, they want to keep the traditions of the company, but that is hard to put a hand on.

I would say the 1990s MC-303 and MC-505 kept up the traditions, although very different from their 1980s offerings, which were actually marketed for the wrong crowd to begin with, and only started getting used by a lot of people when the prices dropped to rock-bottom.

As for stuff which only works with computers, this has been proven over and over as the wrong approach, not only with Roland's own MC-808, but also other companies' gear like the Yamaha DX200 and AN200.

They are a bit out of touch with what people want, but they are looking at what other manufacturers are doing and what people want, even if it takes many years for them to figure it out. They're not at the forefront like they used to be though.
GovernorSilver
Roland still makes stuff that is neither small, nor cheap: VR-730, C-380, C-330, AT-900, AT-900C, V-Piano Grand, various V-Drum kits, etc... so it's not true that they only make small, cheap stuff...
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> General Gear Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next [all]
Page 2 of 6
Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group