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Plugin that act as an LPG ?
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Music Software  
Author Plugin that act as an LPG ?
amsonx
someone know what plugin can act as LPG ?

i'll like to create one in reaktor but dont' know how do it..
Babaluma
i imagine modelling an led and an ldr well might prove taxing, however there have been some great plugins based on hardware compressors that use the same technology, so...

maybe give the freeware digitalfishphones "blockfish" compressor a go? set to "opto" mode it does quite a good emulation of an LA-2A style opto compressor. it might give you some of the same mojo?

http://www.digitalfishphones.com/main.php?item=2&subItem=5
amsonx
Babaluma wrote:
i imagine modelling an led and an ldr well might prove taxing, however there have been some great plugins based on hardware compressors that use the same technology, so...

maybe give the freeware digitalfishphones "blockfish" compressor a go? set to "opto" mode it does quite a good emulation of an LA-2A style opto compressor. it might give you some of the same mojo?

http://www.digitalfishphones.com/main.php?item=2&subItem=5


thanks Babaluma,but i don't know the acronyms led and ldr ..can you explain waht means ?
thanks in advance

diego
Babaluma
low pass gates are based around vactrols.

vactrols are just an LED (light emitting diode) and an LDR (light dependent resistor) in an enclosed space.

i think (please correct me if i'm wrong) that the smooth response of vactrols comes from the fact that it takes some time for the LDR to register the LED, hence some built in "decay", hence the nice sound. wink

some old compressors are based around similar technology, such as the Teletronix LA-2A, which i think uses an electro-luminescent panel and an LDR for it's compressing action.

loads more info here:

http://www.tangible-technology.com/dynamics_index.html

i know when i set up my modular compressor patch with a vactrol based filter/lpg for the VCA/compressing action, i get a similar "squishy" sound as those old opto compressors.

so, going the other way round, i was just wondering if you tried a vst emulation of an opto-compressor, you might be able to achieve a LPG/vactrol type sound.
amsonx
Babaluma wrote:
low pass gates are based around vactrols.

vactrols are just an LED (light emitting diode) and an LDR (light dependent resistor) in an enclosed space.

i think (please correct me if i'm wrong) that the smooth response of vactrols comes from the fact that it takes some time for the LDR to register the LED, hence some built in "decay", hence the nice sound. wink

some old compressors are based around similar technology, such as the Teletronix LA-2A, which i think uses an electro-luminescent panel and an LDR for it's compressing action.

loads more info here:

http://www.tangible-technology.com/dynamics_index.html

i know when i set up my modular compressor patch with a vactrol based filter/lpg for the VCA/compressing action, i get a similar "squishy" sound as those old opto compressors.

so, going the other way round, i was just wondering if you tried a vst emulation of an opto-compressor, you might be able to achieve a LPG/vactrol type sound.


thanks for the precious info and for the link.
modularland
what you also may want to consider is modeling a low pass filter (LPF), with resonance, and a voltage controlled amplifier (VCA) in series or parallel and tweak them until you get the sound you want. the secret of the LPG is the exact envelope shapes, resonance of LPF, and speed at which they happen that make the sound... its not rocket science, its just a matter of tweaking until you get what you want.... the 'woody' sound is the result

see my video here for that sound:

Oldstench
Wonderful vid modularland. I love modular wood blocks. Can you describe how that is patched up if you can remember?
amsonx
Thank for the video and for info , it'0's sound great.
i've achieved a similar sound using an external multifx (korg A2)
BTW i want do it without external fx and your info are really useful.
In september i'll hope to buy some other modules and one will be an LPG.
modularland
Oldstench wrote:
Wonderful vid modularland. I love modular wood blocks. Can you describe how that is patched up if you can remember?


High quality MP3 is here: http://modularland.com/trax/woodblock.mp3

The main parts of the patching consist of two 'functions' - sequencing and low pass gate.

The sequencing is the classic Modularland aleatoric approach- basically set up a sequence you like, and then have one of the stages of the sequence trigger direction or randomization so you get variety.

The low pass gates are Cynthia Quad Low Pass Gates, and I'm probably using the Cynthia ADSR which is a very fast envelope. I typically set it to Attack Release mode (not ADSR) so its a quick attack and release, and then tune the threshold of the LPG and the release until I get the right 'clunk' sound.

The input waveform to the filter is from an FM module - one of the Modcan DVDO types- and the waveform is varying as well based on the sequence. The VCO is controlled by the sequencer which creates the pitches sounding from the LPG.

Sometimes I also vary the release of the envelope with a sequencer as well- that can create interesting effects.

Play enough with your LPG and a very fast envelope modulating it and you'll find that wood sound.
darenager
Babaluma wrote:
low pass gates are based around vactrols.

vactrols are just an LED (light emitting diode) and an LDR (light dependent resistor) in an enclosed space.

i think (please correct me if i'm wrong) that the smooth response of vactrols comes from the fact that it takes some time for the LDR to register the LED, hence some built in "decay", hence the nice sound. wink


Correct, also I think the led will fade when power is lowered/removed rather than go instantly off, LDRs are available with different response times too.
felix
I've found that delays that can do really short times (like <20ms) and have a LPF in the feedback loop can make pretty decent LPG emulators.

Turn the decay/feedback/regen up pretty high and set the delay time to something really short, start with 10ms and set the LPF pretty low. The combination of the delay time, feedback, and the LPF frequency basically determines the "decay" of the emulated LPG.

The one problem with this is that the response will vary *a lot* with the frequency response of your audio input, so if the input source spans more than one octave you'll probably have to do a lot of automation to "tune" the delay and LPF. So much so that it might make this approach not worth it.
dkcg
I seem to recall someone suggesting convolution as a possible solution in another thread. I could see that possibly working at least for the decay, but different frequencies seem to effect the decay in a LPG, the lower frequencies seem to be able to squeeze through the gate for longer than higher frequencies.
qu.one
there could be one floating in the reaktor user lib...?
thomas
dkcg wrote:
I seem to recall someone suggesting convolution as a possible solution in another thread. I could see that possibly working at least for the decay, but different frequencies seem to effect the decay in a LPG, the lower frequencies seem to be able to squeeze through the gate for longer than higher frequencies.


I would have suggested trying that with the wealth of convolution reverbs around which take user provided impulse responses. The problem you hint at might very well have to do with the use of vactrols which when used without a current source that compensates for the non-linear behaviour of the LED and LDR makes the whole system (in this case the LPG) non-linear. Convolution only works reliably for LTI systems (linear and time-invariant). But there are approaches that incorporate non-linear behaviour in modelling filters (e.g. "NON-LINEAR DIGITAL IMPLEMENTATION OF THE MOOG LADDER FILTER" by Antti Huovilainen). The virtual analog literature might provide some clues as to how to approach modelling a vactrol based filter.
Bacchus
A very basic LPG model should be quite simple. All you need is a -6db/octave LP filter which is controlled in the correct way - namely filtering of the control signal to give a quick rise and a slow exponential decay. I just tried a structure like that in Max, and it sounds reasonably close (without all the nice non-linearities of an analog LPG of course).

Convolution won't work because an LPG is a time-varying filter.
witz
soundhack's spectral shapers (don't remember which one out of spectralcompand or spectralgate) can make very convincing lowpass gates, even with sustained sounds, and you can adjust the gate depth vs frequency, as well as the time response, the result is very natural and exhibit the same woody attack character.
wetterberg
darenager wrote:
Babaluma wrote:
low pass gates are based around vactrols.

vactrols are just an LED (light emitting diode) and an LDR (light dependent resistor) in an enclosed space.

i think (please correct me if i'm wrong) that the smooth response of vactrols comes from the fact that it takes some time for the LDR to register the LED, hence some built in "decay", hence the nice sound. wink


Correct, also I think the led will fade when power is lowered/removed rather than go instantly off, LDRs are available with different response times too.
unless I'm reading this wrong I'd say it was the opposite:
LDR elements usually respond quite rapidly to the light from the LED, but since they also *store* the energy it takes some time after the LED element goes low for the energy to dissipate.
3za
Bump!!!

Looking for Vst/Reaktor emulations (other than Aalto).
Aroused by JarJar
modularland wrote:
what you also may want to consider is modeling a low pass filter (LPF), with resonance, and a voltage controlled amplifier (VCA) in series or parallel and tweak them until you get the sound you want. the secret of the LPG is the exact envelope shapes, resonance of LPF, and speed at which they happen that make the sound... its not rocket science, its just a matter of tweaking until you get what you want.... the 'woody' sound is the result

see my video here for that sound:



I love that sound, thanks for the video!

Now a lpg in software, I wonder how possible that is.
Aroused by JarJar
felix wrote:
I've found that delays that can do really short times (like <20ms) and have a LPF in the feedback loop can make pretty decent LPG emulators.

Turn the decay/feedback/regen up pretty high and set the delay time to something really short, start with 10ms and set the LPF pretty low. The combination of the delay time, feedback, and the LPF frequency basically determines the "decay" of the emulated LPG.

The one problem with this is that the response will vary *a lot* with the frequency response of your audio input, so if the input source spans more than one octave you'll probably have to do a lot of automation to "tune" the delay and LPF. So much so that it might make this approach not worth it.


That sounds promising, thanks- even if it doesn't sound like a Buchla, it should make for some nice possibilities in its own right.
jimmyedgar
amsonx wrote:
someone know what plugin can act as LPG ?

i'll like to create one in reaktor but dont' know how do it..


in my opinion, log is one of those sounds so subtle it may prove unworthy of digital replication attempt... but never hurts to try.. if using reaktor/max it would probably have to be designed from scratch
vze26m98
Always enjoy responding to ancient threads, gone quiet so long ago. Caught an interest in LPG, and thought I'd mention the Xhip Effects, which has a lovely Follower:

http://xhip.net/effects/?p=Follower
Moon Indigo
vze26m98 wrote:
Always enjoy responding to ancient threads, gone quiet so long ago. Caught an interest in LPG, and thought I'd mention the Xhip Effects, which has a lovely Follower:

http://xhip.net/effects/?p=Follower


There is a good ni realtor blocks lpg
vze26m98
Moon Indigo wrote:
There is a good ni reaktor blocks lpg

Hey thanks!
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