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Epoch vs. Klangbau Twin Peak vs. Grendel vs Xaoc Belgrad
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules  
Author Epoch vs. Klangbau Twin Peak vs. Grendel vs Xaoc Belgrad
R.U.Nuts
Hey there! I'm thinking of getting another filter. id like to have something versatile. There are especially three things I'm interested in:

1. Vovel sounds
2. That gorgeous harmonic resonance the classic Grendel Drone Commander has (short story: Had one, sold it to fund some eurocrack, regret it now waah )
3. Pings!

So especially for 1 and 2 bandpass filters are required.

The Twin Peak filter by Rob Hordijk seems to cover a lot of this. But there are two different versions of them out there: From Epoch and from Klangbau. The control layout of both is pretty different. The KB version has more knobs, while the Epoch has more CV inputs for the cutoff(s).
Does anybody have experiences with both and can compare the two. I'm leaning towards the Epoch because of more CV inputs but it seems to be unavailable at the moment...
Then there's the Grendel Formant Filter which excels at point one of my list but it's maybe a one trick pony. Can it perform other stuff than vovel sounds?
And maybe the Xaoc Belgrad might be interesting as well but I havent heard any demos yet that really convinced me.
...And then there's Three Sisters but all the demos I heard of it sounded rather boring...
Any recommendations or a hint where to get an Epoch Twin Peak?
southphillysynths
Hey there I've got some experience with almost all mentioned above.

The drone commander really is its own thing. It is a special instrument. (I own an ammocan red panel) Rare Waves just came out with a pedal version MK1 and sounds the closest to the ammo can to my ears!

http://rarewaves.net/products/grendel-drone-commander-classic-pedal/

I do feel that the formant filter is a sort of one trick pony, they sound great but is sort of limited in application. I would rather try and patch up formants with other non dedicated filters and tricks with basic components rather than have a filter just for formants. Just my opinion though

Now the twin peak filters... they are incredible. I personally prefer the sound of the klangbau variety but are pretty pricey. There is a thread somewhere talking about them but this demo does a great job comparing them!


brandonlogic
dont forget there are also 2 klangbau ones now too hihi

this is the newer one:

mdoudoroff
I feel vaguely irresponsible even mentioning this, but it seems relevant to the OP and the RES-4 appears to be in stock as of this writing at Big City:

https://www.bigcitymusic.com/collections/cwejman/products/res-4-quad-v c-resonator

I’ve got the Epoch Twinpeak and a QMMF-4, which is sort of an expanded RES-4. The Twinpeak is an excellent filter and I enjoy the dual-input modulation scheme. It’s very good for pinging, of course, although I’d still give the edge to the Cwejman, which can produce bell-like long-tails that are beyond the reach of the Twinpeak. IIRC, the RES-4 is supposed to also excel at vowel/formant stuff, although that has not been my focus.
nectarios
Klangbau Koln Twin Peak Resonator is my new favorite VCF and one of my favorite VCOs.



R.U.Nuts
mdoudoroff wrote:
I feel vaguely irresponsible even mentioning this, but it seems relevant to the OP and the RES-4 appears to be in stock as of this writing at Big City:

https://www.bigcitymusic.com/collections/cwejman/products/res-4-quad-v c-resonator

I’ve got the Epoch Twinpeak and a QMMF-4, which is sort of an expanded RES-4. The Twinpeak is an excellent filter and I enjoy the dual-input modulation scheme. It’s very good for pinging, of course, although I’d still give the edge to the Cwejman, which can produce bell-like long-tails that are beyond the reach of the Twinpeak. IIRC, the RES-4 is supposed to also excel at vowel/formant stuff, although that has not been my focus.

The RES-4 is too big for the spare space in my rack (24HP). Also I think I'd need some more modulation sources for it to really make use of it. A friend of mine has one and it sounds great!

Any opinions on the Belgrad?

The Klangbau Twin Peak looks a little convoluted. I think I'd prefer the layout of the Epoch. Especially since it has two inputs and a crossfader for them which is a simple but great feature which probably would save me from getting another mixer.
R.U.Nuts
Btw.: How much € is the Klangbau? Couldn't find any infos on this...
nectarios
R.U.Nuts wrote:
Btw.: How much € is the Klangbau? Couldn't find any infos on this...

The Resonator is 300€. Worth every cent, imo.
pieter
Modulargrid say €295 for the TP resonator and €300 for the filter. Steep, but not excessive compared to other top filters.
R.U.Nuts
southphillysynths wrote:
Hey there I've got some experience with almost all mentioned above.

The drone commander really is its own thing. It is a special instrument. (I own an ammocan red panel) Rare Waves just came out with a pedal version MK1 and sounds the closest to the ammo can to my ears!

http://rarewaves.net/products/grendel-drone-commander-classic-pedal/

I do feel that the formant filter is a sort of one trick pony, they sound great but is sort of limited in application. I would rather try and patch up formants with other non dedicated filters and tricks with basic components rather than have a filter just for formants. Just my opinion though

Now the twin peak filters... they are incredible. I personally prefer the sound of the klangbau variety but are pretty pricey. There is a thread somewhere talking about them but this demo does a great job comparing them!




Well judging from that demo the Epoch seems to have a more gritty, overdriven sound with high resonance settings, while the Klangbau sound more "bubbly". I guess I prefer the sound of the Epoch... But still it's unacailable at the moment...
And I still didn't rule out the Belgrad...
R.U.Nuts
pieter wrote:
Modulargrid say €295 for the TP resonator and €300 for the filter. Steep, but not excessive compared to other top filters.


So the Klangbau is actually cheaper than the Epoch (375€) and the Belgrad (320€ At Schneider's). But that's not such a big difference that it would have any influence on my descision (glad I don't have enough rack space for the RES-4 anyway Dead Banana )
joskery
Had the Epoch. Sounded great, the lower output is actually a bit of a pain, but of course nothing you can't work around.
Bbman
I was looking at all three and finally decided on the Belgrad. I think the major distinction with the Belgrad is that it can get much angrier than the others. I am happy with my decision.

I also heard that Divkid has shot a video about the Belgrad so finally there should be a good overview of its functionality.
OlivierWah
I have RES-4 and Belgrad.

Such different beast, the RES-4 is big and expensive, but it's the most beautiful filter that I have never listen. Perfect in all points, and incredible when you put audiorates CV.

Belgrad is impressive too, aggressive, organic, very versatile, ultra good bass sounds.

I try Epoch Twin Peaks. Very good harmonic, but the lower output is annoying...need another module to amplify is a really drawback for me.
nectarios
The Klangbau Twin Peak Resonator has a hot output and sweet saturation close to full CW input.
brandonlogic
R.U.Nuts wrote:

Well judging from that demo the Epoch seems to have a more gritty, overdriven sound with high resonance settings, while the Klangbau sound more "bubbly". I guess I prefer the sound of the Epoch... But still it's unacailable at the moment...
And I still didn't rule out the Belgrad...


keep in mind the input attenuation knob on the klangbau in that video is only at 1 or 2:00. when its all the way up, it can definitely become a lot more gritty and overdriven. i prefer the klangbau, to me its bolder, thicker sounding and has stronger resonance.

R.U.Nuts wrote:

So the Klangbau is actually cheaper than the Epoch (375€) and the Belgrad (320€ At Schneider's). But that's not such a big difference that it would have any influence on my descision (glad I don't have enough rack space for the RES-4 anyway Dead Banana )


watch/listen to more demos. the way it sounds should be the most important factor, more so that cost and panel layout, imo.

i always like to share this set of klangbau twin peak demos/tracks because these are what sold it for me originally and uzala is amazing.!
https://soundcloud.com/uzala/sets/klangbau-k-ln-twin-peak-filter
R.U.Nuts
That soudcloud tune is pretty wicked. Like it a lot.
The controls on the Klangbau are just a little confusing: The Epoch has a seperate CV input for the filter frequencies, one for both with attenuator and one for both with 1V/oct tracking -pretty straight forward. While the KB has only one CV in for each filter, which both track 1V/oct, one being normalized to the audio in, the other one normalized to the first and two attenuators for each CV input (?). That's a bit strange and might take a while to figure out how to make good use of it I guess....

But you're right: In the end it's the sound that matters...
brandonlogic
R.U.Nuts wrote:
That soudcloud tune is pretty wicked. Like it a lot.
The controls on the Klangbau are just a little confusing: The Epoch has a seperate CV input for the filter frequencies, one for both with attenuator and one for both with 1V/oct tracking -pretty straight forward. While the KB has only one CV in for each filter, which both track 1V/oct, one being normalized to the audio in, the other one normalized to the first and two attenuators for each CV input (?). That's a bit strange and might take a while to figure out how to make good use of it I guess....

But you're right: In the end it's the sound that matters...


The KB normalization you described is not correct. It has cv for each peak, and the only normalization is the first peak cv in is normalized to the second. The tk knobs are like envelope followers for the audio input and effect the peak freqs. Its a great feature of the filter and sounds awesome. It’s easy to dial in good sounds... it’s actually hard to make it not sound good... as you can see in my vids above, I’m not doing anything to precise, just wiggling knobs and sounds great smile
R.U.Nuts
Well so I got the infos on the Klangbau site wrong. Probably lost in translation which is rather ironic since the Klangbau guy and me are both native German speakers.
theelectricyouth
R.U.Nuts wrote:
pieter wrote:
Modulargrid say €295 for the TP resonator and €300 for the filter. Steep, but not excessive compared to other top filters.


So the Klangbau is actually cheaper than the Epoch (375€) and the Belgrad (320€ At Schneider's). But that's not such a big difference that it would have any influence on my descision (glad I don't have enough rack space for the RES-4 anyway Dead Banana )


Bringing this super interesting post up again as I find myself where you were when you started this post smile

Curious which filter you bought and how do you find it now?
Plumbstone
fwiw - I had the Belgrad and found it a bit lightweight, it seemed to make everything sound a bit thin. Sold it got the Twin Peaks resonator and couldn't be happier. Fat, juicy, tweaky loveliness...
Randy
Listen around 2:30 on this video, got some vocal sounds out of an inexpensive PM Foundations filter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ph1dTEqM5QA
R.U.Nuts
theelectricyouth wrote:
R.U.Nuts wrote:
pieter wrote:
Modulargrid say €295 for the TP resonator and €300 for the filter. Steep, but not excessive compared to other top filters.


So the Klangbau is actually cheaper than the Epoch (375€) and the Belgrad (320€ At Schneider's). But that's not such a big difference that it would have any influence on my descision (glad I don't have enough rack space for the RES-4 anyway Dead Banana )


Bringing this super interesting post up again as I find myself where you were when you started this post smile

Curious which filter you bought and how do you find it now?



I got the Belgrad and am pretty happy with it. The Klangbau didn't appeal to me because of the controls and the epoch was not available at that time. The Belgrad sounds awesome but of course I can't compare it to the other modules. It sounds really great used in more traditional ways. But it also is great for pinging and formant sounds even though it needs some careful tweaking to make it work. But my favourite sounds are the sounds with the Tito switch in up-position. It sounds more like some beautiful overdrive than self modulation and can get you into Drone Commander territory easily.
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