TM3030 Midi synity check

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mex
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TM3030 Midi synity check

Post by mex » Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:34 am

Hello all,

I jsut finished my TM3030 303 clone, everything sounds and tests allright, I can play that sweet acid sounds via keyboard no problem at all.

Now when I connect it to my external sequencer, Yamaha RS7000 that is, it will work once, but if I wanna rewind replay stop and continue the TM3030 will always freeze, unplugging of course resets it, cannot say right now if simply midi unplug also helps, but I dont think so.


So anyone got the same issues? It is not really usable for my purposes this way, since composing music has a lot to do with rewinding start stop play, so maybe I am using it slightly wrong, or it simply hangs itself on external sequencinG???


Any ideas of how to fix this? I assume there will not be a firmware update just because of me?! :)

So maybe just share a bit of source code with me, maybe I rewind my own processor as Midi to CV converter, what really would help me there, what nores generate what analog output voltages, .


Thanks in advance, appreciate every bit of help.

Cheers.

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Synthbuilder
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Post by Synthbuilder » Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:54 am

Interesting. We had something like this not so long ago with a chap using an Atari running Creator.

viewtopic.php?t=183052

I forwarded that to Colin Fraser at Sequentix who writes the firmware. The problem is that Colin is very busy at the moment with the relocation of his business to Berlin. However, I'm sure he'll try to work out something but I can't say when this will be.

I'll let him know about this one too because it may just be the same thing. The code inside the TM3030 PIC is the same (or very similar) as in the Sequentix midibass TB303 midi kit so it's been well tested over the years. But clearly the RS7000 is putting out a midi message that is screwing up something in the TM3030. Is there a menu in the RS7000 that can stop things like midiclock or MTC being sent out? Thinning the data may help - although it really should be OK.

Tony

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Synthbuilder
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Post by Synthbuilder » Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:56 am

Actually, I'll mention something I wrote from that other thread that might be useful here.

It could be something like 'reset all CC or controllers'. If it is, then what it is probably doing is sending a modulation wheel value of zero. This will enable the TM3030's mod wheel control over cut-off frequency mode and set it to zero - effectively turning the filter completely off. If so, simply moving your mod wheel should get your TM3030 to work again.

Probably best switch 'reset all controllers' off on the RS7000 if you can.

Tony

mex
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Post by mex » Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:39 am

Very nice, thanks for the quick reply, I will try and test that once back home, and nice idea with the control messages, that indeed could be something to look at.

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tvh
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Post by tvh » Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:59 am

Synthbuilder wrote:...This will enable the TM3030's mod wheel control over cut-off frequency mode...
How did I miss this in the manual??? Just tried this with my digitakt this AM and it is awesome! :nana:

Hope you figure out the issue Mex! TM3030 is awesome.

mex
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Post by mex » Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:55 am

got it.

the RS7000 is simply a control beast.

I did put off simply all CC messaged and only send note information and midi clock then it did work beautifully.

Very nice, I really seldom get advice in forums which leads to instant cure :) thumbs up

I eventually will look trough what exact control message besides the note information will trigger the TM3030, but then again maybe this wont happen as I am diving into new adventures :)

And thanks for the 3030 anyway, its just a beautiful PCB and was easy to built didnt have one porblem and now i can play along with different moog ladder capacitors cause everything is so tuneable .

cheers

mex
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Post by mex » Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:46 pm

Hi there,

sorry to interrupt, but I got issues again...

I got my setup a bit more complicated, I do split around 10 Midichannels, and the TM3030 is on number one, can this be changes? I slightly remember having read something in the manual.. anyway, when it was solely connected to my rs7000 there was no problem, i could start and stop and start again via midi, not a problem.

Now with more tracks involved I got the slight feeling something is off, after a while the TM3030 again hangs herself and stops reacting, didnt try the modwheel thing, but as I can see notes beeing triggered by the Leds, and no Led is triggered when I send some Midi notes , I assume its dead.

I will try some different things the next weeks, but maybe some of you have meanwhile found something, which could put the 3030 into nirvana simply by midi notes?

thanks in advance.

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Synthbuilder
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Post by Synthbuilder » Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:28 am

It might be worth changing your opto isolator IC for a different 6N137. It could be that the device is only just within its operating range. If the opto isolator is skewing data then this could lead to poor midi response with busy midi inputs. Check also that R1 is 220R and that R4 is 1K. You could try lowering R4 to 820R.

The other thing to look at is the crystal that drives the PIC. Check that there is no excess flux or grime on both sides of the circuit board around C1, C2 and X1.

Colin's firmware is pretty robust - the TM3030 and midibass interface code has been around for a long time now and I've not had many reports of misbehaviour. That said, firmware is very rarely perfect and midi outputs don't always follow the proper conventions. I'll give him a nudge and see what he says.

Colin's datasheet for the interface, with midi channel change instructions, can be found here:

http://www.oakleysound.com/tm3030-mid.pdf

Tony

sequentix
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Post by sequentix » Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:08 am

mex wrote:after a while the TM3030 again hangs herself and stops reacting, didnt try the modwheel thing, but as I can see notes beeing triggered by the Leds, and no Led is triggered when I send some Midi notes , I assume its dead.
I've not heard any other reports of that sort of behaviour.
The TM3030 code is a cut-down version of the MIDIBass code, so there is quite a large user base.
If you could narrow down if there's a specific message type that causes it to stop responding, that might help.
If it just randomly stops, that might point to an opto-isolator issue, as Tony suggested.
Have you got the MIDI thru wired up ?
That echoes whatever is received at the MIDI input by the PIC, with an absolute minimum of processing. It would be useful to know what's coming out there when it has stopped responding.

mex
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Post by mex » Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:08 am

Ok thanks for advice, easiest for me is changing the optocoupler, could also try the 138, although i it should work less accurate, if I trust the mutable instrument crowd.

I am sending also midiclock over the midi not exclusively the midi notes, from the RS7000, for me it is convenient, since then all my other gear, which only works off the clock works as well, I can imagine that this screw witht he TM3030, since there is some chance that clock and note kind of come too close together, but those are jsut thoughts.

I will test it out soon, I like the 303 sound so much, I want it to work with my setup.

I think Im going to switch the opto, then maybe scope the midi out or thru see if the pic is still alive after its sound turns dead, then will switch the resistor, higher current indeed does wonders sometimes.


So anyway, thanks again, sorry for late response, somehow did not get email notification on this thread, will now turn it on.

cheers.

mex
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Post by mex » Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:34 pm

ok I just tested a bunch of stuff, even did stuff in a 6N138, did scope that all.

138 indeed has very slow and round edges, but still works fine, when its working.

But what I did get is that for real when the TM3030 gets stuck no more code comes out of the midi thru.

I know now that my RS7000 does produce an midi signal quite often, every 120ms without any purpose, but it is tthere, ( just a down up pulse, so no real data transmitted there) so I thought aha this might be it, the thing that confuses the 3030.

But turns then out when I touch the crystal ( which is indeed 1mm soldered above the PCB surface ) it sometimes stops and when I rub my finger on it it will start again, very strange behaviour, but of course makes sense, since the crystal keeps the c code running.

So I could stop and start the 3030 again and again, but it still fails when i am not touching it, so my next thought was I did install the wrong load caps.
I usually dont bother calculating it but go for 33p standart.

But sadly I looked into my datasheet and the 33p are almost the perfect joice when trusting the formulkas which are around in the interwebs.

So I am a bit of confused right now, maybe some of my sockets for the pic are not clean , midi works great, but the pic sometimes stops, maybe I have to resolder another crystal, gotta order one, or find one, then I will get back to you.

Thanks for reading.
cheers.

sequentix
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Post by sequentix » Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:16 am

mex wrote:I know now that my RS7000 does produce an midi signal quite often, every 120ms without any purpose, but it is tthere, ( just a down up pulse, so no real data transmitted there) so I thought aha this might be it, the thing that confuses the 3030.
That regular MIDI byte will be Active Sense (0xFE).
Yamaha are fond of that one.
The purpose of it is to tell a receiving device that it is connected to a source of MIDI data. The idea being that if the cable is broken or pulled out, the active sense bytes will stop coming, and the receiving device should do an automatic all notes off to clear any hanging notes.
Did you buy your TM kit recently ?
I have a vague memory of having a problem somewhere with active sense in the past, maybe clearing running status. I'll double-check that it is ignored correctly in the most recent 3030 firwmare.

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