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which sequencers do that:
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> General Gear  
Author which sequencers do that:
Kralle
hi friends, first timer here.

i‘m not yet in the modular world and what is keeping me from getting in is rhythm. i always had a problem with the stiff timing that drum computers or sequencers produce, though i love all the other capabilities. at the moment i am playing all of my drums and melodies by hand, with a nord drum and playing keys. recording them as midi, tweaking/correcting timing and so on. i get where i want but i hate to have to start up my computer to make music. i am looking for a sequencer that has the possibility to tweak the timing of single steps, say play a note a few milliseconds before or after. some call it humanizing. preferribly of course with the twist of a knob. forgive me, but i just started getting interest in modulars and it‘s still a little overwhelming. i hope anyone has a starting point for me? (it could be standalone or a module)

greetings from berlin
Val
the elektron Octatrack can do that
you can input notes, & correct the timing with a resolution of 1/384th step
it's a midi sequencer though

i heard Tiptop Audio Circadian Rhythm has microtiming too, but I don't know how it works I don't own one
http://tiptopaudio.com/manuals/circadianrhythms.pdf
Kralle
thanks val,

microtiming is the term that i was looking for. the elektron devices seem to do that. looks like the digitakt can do it too. i will definitily look into these.
ElTonerino
Beatstep pro can do it too
bnek
If you want to record polyphonic sequences then I think the Squarp Pyramid would be more suitable. I wouldn't want to edit large chunks of midi on it but if you're more or less happy with the recorded performance and just want to change the timing of a few notes it works well.
Biom
Kralle wrote:
at the moment i am playing all of my drums and melodies by hand


Keep doing that. It's the music as it should be. Ignore all the sequencers, Ableton, grids, bpm and everything, that put you in a limited or predefined state.
None of the technology will give you the results you are able to give it yourself with your own hands. Even the most advanced swing / step algorithms won't replace a great player. Its' not even about accuracy or how great a player is (though, it's important), it's about a direct, instant contact with an instrument and special moments, coming out of the unconsciousness.

If you aren't comfortable with keys, get yourself drum pads or something you would be comfortable to play with.

Modular is a great tool, one of the greatest, and, if getting one, you'll still be able to use your keyboard or whatever uses MIDI to play it the way you play now.
As for the sequencers, their real power is modulation possibilities. You can hook a sequencer to any parameter to modulate it the way your hands can't
PISS.EXE
My Drum Kat is incredibly valuable to me and i just play it into any non auto quantizing seq.

GovernorSilver
Yeah, if you play all your drum and melody parts by hand, you'll get the timing you want - provided you're willing to practice. Just get a sequencer that has a real-time recording mode.

That said, I do enjoy messing w/ step sequencing too.
Kralle
Biom wrote:
Kralle wrote:
at the moment i am playing all of my drums and melodies by hand


Keep doing that. It's the music as it should be. Ignore all the sequencers, Ableton, grids, bpm and everything, that put you in a limited or predefined state.


i will definitely not give that up! wink
and i agree with you that sequencers are in a way limiting. that‘s why i want something in between, if that makes sense.
Kralle
PISS.EXE wrote:
My Drum Kat is incredibly valuable to me and i just play it into any non auto quantizing seq.




That‘s basically what i am doing atm with my nord drum into Logic Pro. What sequencer are you using for that?
Kralle
GovernorSilver wrote:
Yeah, if you play all your drum and melody parts by hand, you'll get the timing you want - provided you're willing to practice. Just get a sequencer that has a real-time recording mode.

That said, I do enjoy messing w/ step sequencing too.


Yes, real-time recording mode sounds great for what i want. Any sequencers you can name?
PISS.EXE
Kralle wrote:
PISS.EXE wrote:
My Drum Kat is incredibly valuable to me and i just play it into any non auto quantizing seq.




That‘s basically what i am doing atm with my nord drum into Logic Pro. What sequencer are you using for that?


I meant to edit it saying I use a MMT8 myself or the built in seq on my ASR10 but somehow forgot to add that!
Biom
PISS.EXE wrote:
My Drum Kat is incredibly valuable to me and i just play it into any non auto quantizing seq.



That's the real deal) Pretty underrated nowadays, but absolutely timeless thing

Kralle, if you're planning to get a modular (which is, by no means, a great decision), then you'd need a midi-cv module and you'd be able to play it the way you play Nord.
You may also use envelope follower to let your modular react to any rhythm or sound in your track to preserve this live feeling.

as for sequencers, Tiptop Trigger Riot is the most ultimate rhythm machine I ever encountered. Has a really, really great rhythms possibilities and will take you to swing territories you haven't even dreamed of. It's insane. But, once again, a machine is a machine.
GovernorSilver
Kralle wrote:
GovernorSilver wrote:
Yeah, if you play all your drum and melody parts by hand, you'll get the timing you want - provided you're willing to practice. Just get a sequencer that has a real-time recording mode.

That said, I do enjoy messing w/ step sequencing too.


Yes, real-time recording mode sounds great for what i want. Any sequencers you can name?


The ones that I have, that have realtime recording:

Korg M3
Emu Command Station XL-7
Korg Volca Keys (Flux function).
Korg Monologue
Elektron Octatrack
Arturia Microbrute
Bunch of iOS apps
gauthier
> i am looking for a sequencer that has the possibility to tweak the timing of single steps, say play a note a few milliseconds before or after.

Assuming you are looking for CV step sequencer, I believe the analog 4 (mk1 is really cheap now, 600/800$) is a good fit for that, it has 4 individual CV outputs, it also does microtiming of steps (although it remains one trig per step).

If you are looking for midi step sequencer, the octatrack or digitakt would do the job.

Of course, if you don't like elektron gear, I'm sure you'll find plenty other options smile
tross
Look at Pyend SEQ, you have a great visual control as well.
Kralle
i finally went with something totally different.. midi looper by future artist. thanks!
resetlfo
Cirklon
Positive and negative delaying of single steps possible
Also randomization and various effects can be applied to delay times
kbrush
sometimes i beatbox into a microphone (like a poser) and use the plosives/transents as first draft midi files. sometimes a little dumb helps, just sayin...making music doesn’t have to be fancy
sutekina bipu-on
kbrush wrote:
sometimes i beatbox into a microphone (like a poser) and use the plosives/transents as first draft midi files. sometimes a little dumb helps, just sayin...making music doesn’t have to be fancy


This is cool as fuck way to make MIDI sequences!
Technologear?
Kralle wrote:
i finally went with something totally different.. midi looper by future artist. thanks!

But does that allow unquantised midi note recording? Quantisation is the main midi issue you're addressing: it basically means 'shifting midi notes onto the tempo grid'. Recording in quantised mode means notes are automatically put on the grid. It sounds like you want:
- to record in unquantised mode (like you've been doing: every miss or off timed note is recorded and played back as you played it) AND/OR
- to specifically shift recorded notes so they sound 'less quantised'
The later option is fairly tricky technically, which is why Elektron gear was recommended to you (they make great gear).
I couldn't determine from the Future Artist site if the Midi Looper records unquantised, it mainly referred to quantised mode. This might be ok if the resolution of the timing grid is high. What this means is there's more steps along the tempo grid per section, so when notes get quantised they don't shift as far (compared to a lower resolution mode) and thus don't sound as robotic and perfect. Is this what the Midi Looper can do?
Anyway all the best in your journey with midi- don't be surprised if your midi goals evolve. I started out with a single midi keyboard recording loops, now I have 2 hardware sequencers totalling 10 seperate tracks of midi plus 2 hardware midi routers. I'm using the Elektron Digitakt in this setup, it's very powerful.
calaveras
I think all the current Elektron boxes do microtiming and real-time recording. I use a combination of those along with plain old rigid step sequenced stuff.
The Analog 4 is cool because it can spit out CV and gates for your modular or analog gear.
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