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Is the Make Noise MMG Discontinued?
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Author Is the Make Noise MMG Discontinued?
JakoGreyshire
I found this thread in the "Make Noise Contour & Dynamix" thread figured it might be worth talking about...

ianbortolotti wrote:
natureclubcassettes wrote:
hermbot wrote:
hawkfuzz wrote:
From a reddit thread I was in someone said the vactrols are toxic so they aren't able to be imported anymore and is likely a replacement. MMG is OOP and I assume the other stuff will be soon.


Hey, that was me! Mr. Green My info came from Walker at Knobcon. He was hesitant to say that the MMG was going out of production but the Detroit Modular guys said that's what they heard.


whoa! thats major if it's true. glad i have all of these, especially the MMG. it's my go-to filter and go-to kick drum, which can be problematic at times.


Damn, MMG was one of the forthcoming modules in my schedule but now I can't find it anywhere. My next module was going to be an Arpitecht but maybe I should hurry and get a LxD before it's too late. sad banana

edit: typo


Others on the countour/dynamix thread said they couldn't find them at all...

Well, I was a little panicked at this point... jawdrop

The MMG has been on my radar for quite a while and I saw this and had to scrap my plans to buy other modules... I searched everywhere and found a few left.

There was one used MMG I found at reverb.com around $175... Then I found some new ones at Analogue Haven.

I called up Analogue Haven and they said that they had 5 new MMGs in stock. I'm not sure to whom I was talking to, Shawn maybe, but he did say that the MMG is discontinued.

I bought one.. thumbs up

As of yesterday, there are now 4 new ones left in stock. eek!

I have an optomix already... Do I need a LxD? hmmm.....

So... Is the MMG discontinued because Vactrols are harder to get? Tombstone

What kind of toxicity are we talking about? Toxic to touch while installing them, or toxic off gassing during use and/or the vactrols life cycle?
Maybe it's just toxic to fabricate them?


Jako,
A.K.A. J-Bot9000



(My first new topic posting. I did search around for this topic so, i hope it's not in any other threads already... I also searched for the MMG discontinued issue with no definitive answer... I've been using google for my searches with the "site:muffwiggler.com" appendage after my query(no quotation marks)... Toxicity is a whole other topic I'd like to tackle sometime. There is real good info coming out right now about health and healing all types of chronic diseases. Caring is sharing and I wish all the wigglers in the world to be healthy and happy! Live long and prosper!)
savethisrocketship
From what I have picked up around here over the last several years, it seems the writing has been on the wall for vactrols for a while. They contain cadmium, which is a not-so-good thing, and some companies that have been known to use them lots (PGH, MN, probably others) seem to be pursuing alternatives. It seems that there are still plenty of new modules being released with Vactrols, so I'm guessing it is either preemptive or regulation-based, only affecting certain countries (maybe just the US?).

I'm sure someone here has a better grasp of the situation, though.
106bestsinth
Does this mean the DPO/Echophon will be discontinued as well or is it easy enough to revise those modules?
ignatius
106bestsinth wrote:
Does this mean the DPO/Echophon will be discontinued as well or is it easy enough to revise those modules?


vactrols are a big part of the sound of west coast complex oscillators and of course low pass gates. so, if those designs were reimagined w/o vactrols i'd be surprised if they sounded the same as the vactrol versions.
nangu
I'm not sure the situation is this dire. Vactrols only got banned in the EU. With half the market disappearing, Excelitas decided to give up and stop making them. Excelitas made the vactrols that were most commonly used in synths, but there's another company called Silonex that also makes vactrols.

I'm not sure how old my info is, but it didn't sound like Silonex was discontinuing anything. The current module designs would need to be updated to work with Silonex vactrols, so the originals will all get discontinued. But I'll be surprised if we don't see mkII versions of things popping up eventually.

The new Metasonix RK5 Dual Lowpass Gate uses Silonex vactrols. It says so right on the page - http://metasonix.com/index.php/rk5-dual-lowpass-gate-new
JakoGreyshire
ignatius wrote:
106bestsinth wrote:
Does this mean the DPO/Echophon will be discontinued as well or is it easy enough to revise those modules?


vactrols are a big part of the sound of west coast complex oscillators and of course low pass gates. so, if those designs were reimagined w/o vactrols i'd be surprised if they sounded the same as the vactrol versions.


I would welcome the re-imagined versions... I think Make noise would do a real good DPO without Vactrols...

YES! They would not sound the same... But I think Make Noise would make it very interesting none the less...

Has Make Noise ever failed or fallen flat with a product? I'm a bit new here... I'm not too familiar with Make noise's history as far as the more seasoned wigglers are....

I'm excited for any new make noise products...Vactrols or not..

btw... awesome new album Ignatius! thumbs up What does BFM stand for? Big Fat Modualr? hihi
Anechoic
Mutable Instruments' Streams has a great digital model of a resistive opto-isolator; being a digital emulation it can modify certain properties of vactrols which can otherwise be tricky to control e.g. response time, and its response can also be optimized to process either CV or triggers.
panomega
MMG entered the Schneiders Büro Archive
lud
I doubt it will become as prized as the QMMG. What do others think?
I thought the filter sounded a bit thin and soon sold it on
astrodislocate
So this feels like the perfect place to ask a dumb question I've had for a while: What's the deal with vactrols? To my knowledge, they're only used to affect modulation by giving it a different sort of curve and response time, right? So if that's the case, is it honestly that noticeably different from nudging the decay on your envelope, and changing the curve a bit if possible?
baremountain
astrodislocate wrote:
So this feels like the perfect place to ask a dumb question I've had for a while: What's the deal with vactrols? To my knowledge, they're only used to affect modulation by giving it a different sort of curve and response time, right? So if that's the case, is it honestly that noticeably different from nudging the decay on your envelope, and changing the curve a bit if possible?

They're just components often used to convert Voltage to Resistance (voltage powers LED, LED momentarily changes resistance on a coupled photocell). The new MN Dynamix uses a transistor array to do the same thing, but it's more responsive. Vactrols just have a set decay time that's a bit laggy, and Makenoise utilizes that in their "Strike" inputs, which can be used to compliment to normal VCA/LPG function. The inability to send both envelopes and short triggers to your VCA/LPG is probably the biggest loss in their switching design. You can still definitely get that vactrol-like clang with a transistor based approach.
starthief
I really don't think Make Noise designed the 0-Coast (which the Dynamix came from) with "vactrols are doomed" in mind.

It really is useful to have an LPG-like frequency response but with a fast VCA-like time response, and aside from literally combining a filter with a VCA, it's unique in modular so far (as far as I know, anyway). All you need to make it sound like a vactrol LPG is an envelope, and you have the advantage of making it respond exactly the way you want.

There are RoHS-compliant vactrols available, and some synth makers build their own.

There are also any number of ways of getting a similar "slow" or "natural" response via analog electronics or in code. There are no vactrols in Streams, Dynamic Impulse Filter, or Natural Gate, and those are just as pingable as vactrol-based LPGs. Again, that offers more control, and can eliminate having to sort through components to find ones that sound the way you want.
windspirit
They probably meant that vactrols are toxic in terms of being super hard to match, many having unusable response times, and customers complaining that their new optomix doesnt sound like the last one.
alanza
windspirit wrote:
They probably meant that vactrols are toxic in terms of being super hard to match, many having unusable response times, and customers complaining that their new optomix doesnt sound like the last one.

hahaha, given that Make Noise’s twitter bio is “I (HEART) VACTROLS” that seems unlikely
richc90
Another way to look at this is: new MN filter hype!
khyber
Who wants to buy a RARE VINTAGE Make Noise MMG now? Bidding starts at $1000
echox
astrodislocate wrote:
So this feels like the perfect place to ask a dumb question I've had for a while: What's the deal with vactrols? To my knowledge, they're only used to affect modulation by giving it a different sort of curve and response time, right? So if that's the case, is it honestly that noticeably different from nudging the decay on your envelope, and changing the curve a bit if possible?

There is a little bit more info over at Dieters page: http://www.doepfer.de/a100_man/Vactrol.htm
JakoGreyshire
Just had my first jam out with the MMG.....Rockin' Banana!


WOOF! thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up

Yeah..... Kind of speechless right now...

Is there any other filter that compares? Is it in a class of it's own?

I'm not saying that the MMG is the best filter.. But, for what it is and does, is there any other out there that can contend?

Maybe it's the best filter in it's own weight division? Maybe not. I don't know.

Maybe the WMD aperture and the Make Noise MMG could duke it out a bit eh? That would be a good fight..

Put up yer dukes! Jedi

hihi hihi


Well, I like it. It will stay in my rig for a long time.... I'm glad I got one before they all went into the second hand market. Silly, I know, but I like new items..
hermbot
khyber wrote:
Who wants to buy a RARE VINTAGE Make Noise MMG now? Bidding starts at $1000


You joke, but look at QMMGs - those are going for $700 or so at the moment. I could definitely see the discontinued vactrol models becoming collector's items.
Naive Teen Idol
So why was this discontinued?
khyber
Naive Teen Idol wrote:
So why was this discontinued?


Because vactrols are not ROHS
Naive Teen Idol
I thought that was determined to be fake news.
phats
If something is toxic, maybe it’s a good idea not to own it?
Naive Teen Idol
Sure, but virtually every Make Noise module uses vactrols. The QMMG was revived recently because they found a supply of vactrols they could match. And I’m not sure the MMG uses notably more than any other module.
nrrrd
So, what's a good alternative to the mmg that is still available?
Or should I just keep checking reverb.com and eBay to try to score a pre used one?
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