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Buchla pulse/gate specs?
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Buchla, EMS & Serge Goto page 1, 2  Next [all]
Author Buchla pulse/gate specs?
dkcg
I've been in contact with Jeffry at Signal Arts about getting Buchla style gates and CVs out of a bananafied TetraMaps (w/ 200 faceplate).
The CVs are not an issue, I'm told there is a pot inside that could give me 1.2v/oct. The gates tho, are euro gates right now, so they won't trigger the 281e unless I stack the gate through the 210e.

I think the output of the 250e is a 10v spike with a 5v gate out of the same output. Is this correct? How long does the 10v pulse have to be? Does it matter as long as it's there in the beginning of the gate?

And one more question, I remember someone posted a part number for the power connector, anyone have this link or part number?

If this little project turns out, I'll have a buchlafied TetraMaps later in the year. hyper
cbm
There are several ways that Buchla systems output pulses:

In general, 200e pulses are 10 V, although the 281e goes to 15 V, and the Pendulum/Ratchet can be set up to go to about 14 V.

On the one 250e that I've looked at, the pulse is a little rounded, and was roughly 8.5 V.
cbm
It's worth noting that a summed 5 v Gate and 5v trigger would give you something approaching the "stepped pulse."

Also the power connector is an edac 306-010-500-102
DGTom
cbm wrote:
It's worth noting that a summed 5 v Gate and 5v trigger would give you something approaching the "stepped pulse."


I've had good results adapting the pulse out from the 230;

http://rubidium.dyndns.org/~magnus/synths/companies/buchla/Buchla_2300 _1_200.jpg

I'm still not 100% sure what that op-amp is doing, looks like a comparator w/ hysteresis... but R22, R23, R27 & D4 seemed to me the place to start.

Thanks for that chart Chris... I have a bizzare facination with the Buchla "stepped pulse" (great name for it btw)
dkcg
Thank you for all the great information. I hope that it's possible to get the euro version customized to do this. Fingers crossed.
jdev
Thanks for the information as well, especially about the different pulse formats!
chrisso
Cloned, vintage and third party pulses could be different again.
I know I have issues sending vintage programmable pulser pulses to my 292 and my Verbos sequencer. And my 218 pulse output triggers various modules differently (MM VCA, 200 series low cut filter etc).
synthomaniac
dkcg wrote:
Thank you for all the great information. I hope that it's possible to get the euro version customized to do this. Fingers crossed.


Yes very possible, I've done it - search for CVGT1 smile
jondent
Thanks for the great info guys.
I've been experimenting with the Elektron Analog four.
My buchla responds to stepped pulses in the range of 8 - 10V / 5ms
Cobramatic
Revived this thread to see if there is another answer on the Euro trig/gate to Buchla Pulse story?
I've been jamming with a Euro TipTop Trigger Riot - fantastic trigger mayhem in Euroland but its 5V gates don't do anything for Buchla pulse in's.
The clock-out does clock Buchla though - so at least I can clock both systems.
So... I've read a bunch of threads on the subject and of course I have the excellent Synovatron CVGT1 but I really need 8 convertors... so the 8 x CVGT1 answer is a bit OTT for me!

Jono and I tried his 255 to see if we could add a voltage to the gate but nada - that's a shame because otherwise we had 8 trigger/gate scaler's right there.

Is there an easier answer out there ?
Even considering a DIY solution if it is not too complicated.
Kent
Boom!


jondent
Hello Kent.
I have this. Its great.
But if I need 8 - 10 trigs (to trigger multiple drum modules)
can you suggest any alternatives.
jondent
I guess the actual question is what does the Trig to pulse converter do.
hmmm.....
synthomaniac
Cobramatic wrote:
Revived this thread to see if there is another answer on the Euro trig/gate to Buchla Pulse story?
I've been jamming with a Euro TipTop Trigger Riot - fantastic trigger mayhem in Euroland but its 5V gates don't do anything for Buchla pulse in's.
The clock-out does clock Buchla though - so at least I can clock both systems.
So... I've read a bunch of threads on the subject and of course I have the excellent Synovatron CVGT1 but I really need 8 convertors... so the 8 x CVGT1 answer is a bit OTT for me!

Jono and I tried his 255 to see if we could add a voltage to the gate but nada - that's a shame because otherwise we had 8 trigger/gate scaler's right there.

Is there an easier answer out there ?
Even considering a DIY solution if it is not too complicated.


Basically you need to convert 0-5V gates/triggers to 0-10V pulses so one way that might work is to use 2 CV Tools modules (4 ins & 4 outs each) as these have a gain of 2 on each channel (available as modules from Rhythm Active or kits from me). Obviously CVGT1 does more than just scale a euro gate - it produces a 10V narrow pulse at the leading edge and then a 5V sustain pulse for the duration of the gate and outputs via a diode. Perhaps someone could try a 5V euro gate via an amplifier module to prove if scaling works or if it needs the full treatment (shock horror I don't have a Buchla!).

Alternatives are a DIY or custom module - I can help with either. Also I was asked by Thonk recently to look at producing elements of CVGT1/cvgtMM as chicklet PCBs for the DIY world so this could be useful route to achieving your goal.
synthomaniac
jondent wrote:
I guess the actual question is what does the Trig to pulse converter do.
hmmm.....

I sort of answered your question before I saw your post. I referred to the gate to pulse conversion but the trig to pulse conversion is simpler as it just produces a 10V narrow pulse without the 5V sustaining pulse (so it ignores how long the input gate/trig/clock is and just reacts to the leading edge.
There is a good explanation in the CVGT1 and cvgtMM user manuals attached below:-
Cobramatic
Kent wrote:
Boom!

Thanks! But we have 3 of these already Mr. Green
It works beautifully but is overkill to have 8 of them just to get a Trigger Riot working with Buchla.
Cobramatic
synthomaniac wrote:


[i]Perhaps someone could try a 5V euro gate via an amplifier module to prove if scaling works or if it needs the full treatment

Alternatives are a DIY or custom module - I can help with either. Also I was asked by Thonk recently to look at producing elements of CVGT1/cvgtMM as chicklet PCBs for the DIY world so this could be useful route to achieving your goal.


Woopeedoo!! That worked!! Thanks for that applause applause applause
Here's what I did - I used a STG BAM which has a 2 to 1 amp at the input then as I turn it up to x2 max then there is the trigger on the 281! SlayerBadger!
Works with gates too, stays on with the gate length.
So that's one output of Trigger Riot sorted....
To be sure I tried it with a few other Euro modules and it works on them all - seems that 5v trigger needs to be almost doubled then Buchla is happy!
At 4hp it is a smaller ( and much cheaper) option than the CVGT but I still need 8 of them!!
So I guess 2 of your CV Tools modules would do the trick, but I'd like to have that verified first.

Just as aside, it is interesting that Trigger Riots general clock out works just fine without any boosting - it obviously puts it's clock out at around 10 volts so you can trigger all sorts with it.
The Flame Arpeggiator clock does not work until it is boosted via the BAM.
The BAM also worked on LFO's and other Oscillators too - boosted output generated a trigger on the 281.

I still don't understand why the 255 did not work though seriously, i just don't get it

I'm wondering if a simple x2 amp section could be done as a basic DIY then for all 8 triggers on one slim faceplate? No need for the attenuators - just in and out boosted double would be great.
Thanks again for the help!
fluxmonkey
for my 208r, i built a small CV amp w/ a gain of x2.5 (using a CGS dc mixer PCB, to amplify the gate out of a doepfer ribbon controller... works fine in that context anyway.

cbm wrote:
It's worth noting that a summed 5 v Gate and 5v trigger would give you something approaching the "stepped pulse."


this seems like the way to go... have been thinking along these lines, since it's a recurrent issue for folks trying to Buchalize non-buchla designs. synthomaniac's idea of a chiclet would be ideal
synthomaniac
Cobramatic wrote:
...Here's what I did - I used a STG BAM which has a 2 to 1 amp at the input then as I turn it up to x2 max then there is the trigger on the 281!...
...So I guess 2 of your CV Tools modules would do the trick, but I'd like to have that verified first...
...I still don't understand why the 255 did not work though...
...I'm wondering if a simple x2 amp section could be done as a basic DIY then for all 8 triggers on one slim faceplate? No need for the attenuators - just in and out boosted double would be great...

So a x2 amplifier works as we suspected therefore CV Tools will work in just the same way. (If you're in the Sydney area maybe Matthew at RhythmActive can help demo it)

The 255 didn't work because (as far as I can tell from the product spec) it can only scale between -1 and +1; it has no gain - only attenuation.

A simple 8 channel module (8 ins and 8 outs) with either x2 gain amplifiers or comparators. I suspect the comparators might be more versatile as they would allow any waveshape to generate 0-10V gates.
Here's an example of the type of circuits you could use (note these just quick sketches of a single channel to give you an idea of the types of circuit and could be tweeked/developed by adding input protection/filter and comparator positive feedback and possibly LEDs. The ICs are quad types so you'll need just 2 ICs. The comparator Vref circuit R7/R8 is common to all -V inputs so you need just the one for all 8 channels). I should add that this does not produce the stepped pulse that the CVGT1 does.



Hope that helps
Tony
Cobramatic
synthomaniac wrote:

So a x2 amplifier works as we suspected therefore CV Tools will work in just the same way. (If you're in the Sydney area maybe Matthew at RhythmActive can help demo it)

The 255 didn't work because (as far as I can tell from the product spec) it can only scale between -1 and +1; it has no gain - only attenuation.

A simple 8 channel module (8 ins and 8 outs) with either x2 gain amplifiers or comparators. I suspect the comparators might be more versatile as they would allow any waveshape to generate 0-10V gates.
Here's an example of the type of circuits you could use (note these just quick sketches of a single channel to give you an idea of the types of circuit and could be tweeked/developed by adding input protection/filter and comparator positive feedback and possibly LEDs. The ICs are quad types so you'll need just 2 ICs. The comparator Vref circuit R7/R8 is common to all -V inputs so you need just the one for all 8 channels). I should add that this does not produce the stepped pulse that the CVGT1 does.

Hope that helps
Tony


Tony that is brilliant, thanks so much for that! thumbs up
I think I might actually try and build this just to see if i can!
Does the comparator circuit need to be placed in front of the x2 amp circuit (or does that comparator circuit include a x2 amp also)??

I checked and Matt has your CV tools. Im going to get one anyone as it would be very useful in my euro system and is a mixer too (I hadn't realised that).

Actually Im surprised more people Haven't had this issue - surely a lot of us are using Buchla and Euro triggers together? I guess they must already be using your CVGT1. But one is never enough Mr. Green
synthomaniac
Cobramatic wrote:
...Does the comparator circuit need to be placed in front of the x2 amp circuit (or does that comparator circuit include a x2 amp also)??...

The two circuits are 'either/or' options so the comparator circuit does not need a x2 amplifier, it simply detects if the input is above or below the 2V voltage reference and switches the output between 0V and about 11.4V accordingly (i.e. it's a digital circuit).

FYI I produce DIY/prototyping pcbs and panels. They are only 5 channels but you could double up; have a look at this custom euro/buchla project I did http://synovatron.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/euro-to-buchla-cv-interface-m odule.html and pm me if you're interested. It would be worth using a solderless breadboard to prototype one or more channels first if this is your first DIY adventure. Good luck!
Cobramatic
synthomaniac wrote:

FYI I produce DIY/prototyping pcbs and panels. They are only 5 channels but you could double up; have a look at this custom euro/buchla project I did http://synovatron.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/euro-to-buchla-cv-interface-m odule.html and pm me if you're interested. It would be worth using a solderless breadboard to prototype one or more channels first if this is your first DIY adventure. Good luck!


That looks perfect Tony - I'll PM you.
Thanks again
jondent
Cobramatic wrote:
synthomaniac wrote:

So a x2 amplifier works as we suspected therefore CV Tools will work in just the same way. (If you're in the Sydney area maybe Matthew at RhythmActive can help demo it)

The 255 didn't work because (as far as I can tell from the product spec) it can only scale between -1 and +1; it has no gain - only attenuation.

A simple 8 channel module (8 ins and 8 outs) with either x2 gain amplifiers or comparators. I suspect the comparators might be more versatile as they would allow any waveshape to generate 0-10V gates.
Here's an example of the type of circuits you could use (note these just quick sketches of a single channel to give you an idea of the types of circuit and could be tweeked/developed by adding input protection/filter and comparator positive feedback and possibly LEDs. The ICs are quad types so you'll need just 2 ICs. The comparator Vref circuit R7/R8 is common to all -V inputs so you need just the one for all 8 channels). I should add that this does not produce the stepped pulse that the CVGT1 does.

Hope that helps
Tony


Tony that is brilliant, thanks so much for that! thumbs up
I think I might actually try and build this just to see if i can!
Does the comparator circuit need to be placed in front of the x2 amp circuit (or does that comparator circuit include a x2 amp also)??

I checked and Matt has your CV tools. Im going to get one anyone as it would be very useful in my euro system and is a mixer too (I hadn't realised that).

Actually Im surprised more people Haven't had this issue - surely a lot of us are using Buchla and Euro triggers together? I guess they must already be using your CVGT1. But one is never enough Mr. Green


Thanks heaps Tony and Paul for all this great info. applause
Tony, I think this would be very useful as a purpose built Buchla format module. Or maybe a few different MM modules.

I'll PM soon. J Guinness ftw!
rattlework
I've had success using the doepfer a-166 and/or to boost euro triggers to the 281e.
I wonder if anyone who has a intelligel OR could test it with euro triggers and the 281e.
This could be an economical alternative also.
jimmyambulance
synthomaniac wrote:
Alternatives are a DIY or custom module - I can help with either. Also I was asked by Thonk recently to look at producing elements of CVGT1/cvgtMM as chicklet PCBs for the DIY world so this could be useful route to achieving your goal.


Did this ever happen? I have an Easel that I'd like to interface with my Euro system. I'd rather not get a CVGT1 (I'm outta space in my rack!) but would really like to be able to convert the pulse out of the Easel keyboard to a Euro gate without using one channel of my Maths. Chicklets?
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