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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

CoCo Trouble ):
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Ciat-Lonbarde  
Author CoCo Trouble ):
darmklacht@gmail.com
Hi there,

My cocoQuantus2 is being weird on me.
When I have one signal going to the green inputs of each of the coco´s (usually from the piezo amp) after a while the coco´s start to have a high pitched noise in the feedback path, this noise is not erase able by turning down the feedback, if I turn the feedback down you don't hear the noise anymore but when I turn it back up its still there (all other sounds would have disappeared).
As soon as I disconnect the two coconuts from one another the sound fades out as any other sound would.
The sound also is not just a constant pitch. here are two sound demo´s displaying it. is it normal behaviour? is it familiar?

Its the only thing I don't like about the CQ2 and Because it just starts suddenly I think its not supposed to be there.

could you please listen to these clips and see if you have any clues? explanations of whats going on are in the descriptions

https://soundcloud.com/darmklacht/fehler

https://soundcloud.com/darmklacht/fehler2

I´ve tried several PSU`s and connecting the ground banana to the ground of my socket makes it take longer to start but it still starts eventually.

Of course I´m also sending this to Peter, just wanted to see if this maybe is something known or normal.

Thanks a bunch!
knows
Can you post a photo of your patch or describe what is connected from quantussy to each coco?
darmklacht@gmail.com
I had nothing connected from the quantussy to the coco`s it was just the white out from the piezo to each of the green inputs of each coco. the changes you hear to speed were done by hand because its quite boring to just look at a screen and I couldn't help but touch it d'oh! there was an easel attached to the piezo input.

Thanks,
Koenraad
knows
Try using one of the two front stereo inputs. The piezo input is for contact mics or for things that need a boost.
Also try and clear the coco buffers. I turn all volume down and set to fastest speed and then press each loop button a few times.
When the delays are at the slowest they come up with all kinds of fun surprises.
Are you sharing the ground between the two instruments?
darmklacht@gmail.com
Thanks for replying

Yes I´m sharing a ground, This also happens when I have a piezo contact mic connected or when even nothing is connected to the piezo input. once this high pitched squeaking starts I can't erase the coco buffers, it stays there for some reason, everything else gets cleared. it only disappears when I disconnect the two green inputs from one another. It also seems to be happening when I´m nowhere near the lower speeds that make all the Artefacts.

The thing is it starts all of a sudden and the the coco´s just behave differently until I disconnect the two green inputs from one another, then everything is back to normal, is this happening to others aswell?
arnoux
Can't listen to the clips for now but what you describe is known to me, it was discussed here:

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=162783&postdays=0&po storder=asc&start=25

I described this very problem to Peter himself and he replied to me saying my COCO is perfectly fine, due to the cryptic communication style I don't really know what to think. So if you contact him please keep me updated as this thing used to drive me mad, as the instability makes the COCO useless on stage.

I noticed that plugging an Y cable from OP-1 to ground and green audio IN in the COCO seemed to cure (a bit) the issue, weird.
The issue appeared at a certain point from nowhere after months of flawless heavy use, I was mostly using the piezo IN too.

Sorry if this is not helpful but at least we know we are in the same boat.

EDIT
I've listen to your clips, mine is even more "modulated" and prominent (reminds me about scrolling between AM radio stations on a old radio, for lack of better words) but the behavior is the same.
darmklacht@gmail.com
Hi Arnoux,

Thats interesting, as we both have it it can mean two things... or its behaviour that should be expected or we both have a flawed unit. hihi moving between Am radio station sounds quite spot on.

I haven't found correlation with my fridge yet. I do know it seems to happen more often in my rehearsal space than it does at home. I´ve tried the CQ at 3 different locations and it happened in all three. it does have relation to power though. I can reproduce it by disconnecting and reconnecting ground again...

If it happened with yours after months of perfect use perhaps its a failing part or connection?

again, with me it only happens when I have one signal going to both coco green inputs at once (example the white piezo jack to both coco´s not using the stereo input). Can someone please try this and see if he or she gets the same behaviour? if it happens it just might be a bug...

Thanks,
horaflora
Perhaps try using a battery and see how it works then?
The Grump
From what you describe, it almost sounds like crosstalk between wires. Maybe there's a wire from a dirty power source nearby making noise that the coco is picking up?
arnoux
Really don't know what to think, to me it happens with battery, playing the instrument by itself with nothing plugged, in the worst case scenario using it with battery and even no bananas (tried for troubleshooting leaving it on like this).

The thing is that it can stay good for one month and then act weird for one week. I also described everything to Peter by mail, pointed him to the thread posted above and the reply was something like "nothing's wrong".

Is it picking up Quasars? Gamma-rays bursts?
The Grump
arnoux wrote:
Really don't know what to think, to me it happens with battery, playing the instrument by itself with nothing plugged, in the worst case scenario using it with battery and even no bananas (tried for troubleshooting leaving it on like this).

The thing is that it can stay good for one month and then act weird for one week. I also described everything to Peter by mail, pointed him to the thread posted above and the reply was something like "nothing's wrong".

Is it picking up Quasars? Gamma-rays bursts?


Because of the inconsistent repeatability factor, it suggests that the issue is caused by the coco being affected by an external source, more specifically some sort of induction caused by maybe a nearby fluorescent light ballast, dimmer, wall wart without a cleanup on the cable, refrigerator/heater or other device with an electric motor that uses brushes, like a neighbor's shop vac... there's a myriad of possibilities. Do you have any CFL's around? Those things have notoriously shitty EMR emissions due to the cheap switches often used in them. LED lighting is better for you all around, anyway, and you don't have to call the EPA if you break in LED bulb, as one is instructed to with CFLs. (True story, read the box.)

Here's something to try out: get a foil roasting pan and put the coco in that. It may work as a makeshift faraday cage. I use that technique with wireless mic and monitor packs to keep them from interfering with each other backstage. See if the coco still does the same thing while sitting in the pan. If this stops it, then at least you know the culprit isn't the coco itself. Might not even be in your own place if you live in an apartment.

Also, try using your coco at different times of the day, and in different locations. Hook up the battery and take it outside to a park or other relatively remote place, and see if it's still behaving the same way.

Hope these suggestions help you track down your gremlin.
knows
Reporting in after about an hour with the cocoquantus. Using only the contact mic pre amp with a contact mic and a marantz tape deck, I used two patch cables from audio out (white) to both coco’s (green). I played around with various combinations of settings and noticed no sounds that disappeared when I disconnected the greens. The loop was silent when I turned it down and the input volume as well. No unwanted sounds, the loop did all kinds of weird sounds when slowed all the way down with different combinations of the Dolby switches. Nothing unexpected.
Oh yea, no fancy power stuff, just a switchable adapter into a surge protector, powering four ciat lonbarde instruments. In my crummy basement.
darmklacht@gmail.com
Hi everyone,

Thanks for taking the time to reply and think about my woes... also Knows thanks a lot for trying that patch out. I don't know what to think of the behaviour... maybe not all coco´s are the same.

Anyway I found a Workaround. I can take the out of the Piezo banana out and I soldered that to the tip and ring of a stereo jack. so I can crank a signal using the piezo amp and then take that signal to the stereo jack in and I don´t get the noise anymore.

Arnoux I hope this helps you aswell.

now back to rocking the coco´s!
arnoux
Hey good people, thanks for discussing indeed.

Quote:
Anyway I found a Workaround. I can take the out of the Piezo banana out and I soldered that to the tip and ring of a stereo jack. so I can crank a signal using the piezo amp and then take that signal to the stereo jack in and I don´t get the noise anymore.


Wow. Very weird! Glad it worked out! In my very case tho the problem appears even without nothing connected to the INs, using the Coco by itself.

The Grump so it's possible my Coco is picking up electromagnetic things from my neighborhood even if powered via battery?
I saw you also replied to the other post, thanks for you help.
May it be that the OP-1 is acting like a faraday cage dissipating the interference via its metallic housing through the ground connection?

Have to say I live in Portugal now and my Coco is in Italy, in January I will pick it up and bring it here, I'm very curious to see if the problem appears here in Lisbon as well, or it's due to my italian neighborhood.

Bests!
The Grump
arnoux wrote:
Hey good people, thanks for discussing indeed.

Quote:
Anyway I found a Workaround. I can take the out of the Piezo banana out and I soldered that to the tip and ring of a stereo jack. so I can crank a signal using the piezo amp and then take that signal to the stereo jack in and I don´t get the noise anymore.


Wow. Very weird! Glad it worked out! In my very case tho the problem appears even without nothing connected to the INs, using the Coco by itself.

The Grump so it's possible my Coco is picking up electromagnetic things from my neighborhood even if powered via battery?
I saw you also replied to the other post, thanks for you help.
May it be that the OP-1 is acting like a faraday cage dissipating the interference via its metallic housing through the ground connection?


I forgot to test whether the effect works on battery or not, but I can tell you that while staying at a friend's place this weekend, I discovered that when I touched a jack connected to a coco input, whether the other end was connected to anything or not, my body created sufficient ground to act as an antenna for a radio station with a transmitter nearby. I think it worked while squishing, too. Kind of makes me wonder how it's affecting my friends being exposed to that much RF on a regular basis.

It was kind of fun, as I got to sample some vocal snippets into the cocos without having to connect a mic or other audio source. However, if I didn't touch the cables, cocos were pretty quiet.
arnoux
The Grump thanks for your interesting report.

This instruments look like very fragile living things, organisms full of quirks.
The Grump


That's because the kind of are. I mistakenly ordered 3.5mm banana jacks and sockets, but the 3.5mm jacks actually work well for squishing and when I'm done, they come out easily. It's a nice crossover between the V1 and V2. I think mine was trying to warn me about how much RF I was being exposed to at the time.
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