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FH-1 'Legato Glide'
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Author FH-1 'Legato Glide'
PM33AUD
Hello again! We're really enjoying the FH-1 and are considering grabbing another 2x and 4x more expanders. And we think that'll put an end to the rig in regards to modulation and voicing control.

Question!

Yarns is a candidate for replacement but we are unsure whether FH-1 can do Yarns' legato glides. Basically if you run two notes together in your MIDI sequencer (octatrack), it will automatically glide those notes together. And additionally, we control the glide rate of Yarns via. a Remote CC message to set glide time. It's not done via MIDI PB message which we don't want to use as editing is not nice or fun. Plus it's a lot more MIDI data on our sensitive MIDI lines in regards to timing.

So can we get FH-1 to do these kind of glides? hyper
os
From the user manual:

Quote:
Monophonic MIDI/CV converters have a portamento setting (by default MIDI channel 14 CCs 64- 79). This sets a glide time betwen notes played legato ("fingered portamento").
PM33AUD
THanks! Will test in the next few days.

Also, is there any additional overhead/latency when adding more and more expanders (other than the MIDI data delays themselves)?

We basically have an FH-1 with 4x gate and 1v/oct pairs but want to add on an expander which will also allow velocity output from the note information (which I believe is already MIDI data that is sent along with the rest of the note informations). Just want to know if adding the FHX-1 expander to extract velocity will add any delays I should be aware of.

Thanks for all of your replied BTW. We're getting on pretty well with these so far!
os
There is a small processing overhead but I'd surprised if it were noticeable.

You could try it before you buy the expander. If you tell the FH-1 to output velocity on the expander, it will still do it, if the expander is actually there or not.
PM33AUD
Thanks kindly for the tip... will do!
PM33AUD
os wrote:
From the user manual:

Quote:
Monophonic MIDI/CV converters have a portamento setting (by default MIDI channel 14 CCs 64- 79). This sets a glide time betwen notes played legato ("fingered portamento").

In regards to this one... how do I set this 'per channel.' Because each track that drives each Monophonic MIDI/CV converter is on its own channel... basically, I'd need to set the portamento time on the same track/channel for each converter set.

Eg.
Channel 9 =
FH1 jack 1: 1V/oct (note) on MIDI Channel 9
FH1 jack 2: velo gate (thanks for that one - ace) on MIDI Channel 9
FH1 jack 3: 1V/oct (note) on MIDI Channel 10
etc....

So I'd like a CC knob on the Octatrack (on it's CTRL pages) for that track to be able to set the portamento time for fingered legatos.

For now it's not a huge deal but we do like our slow slides and we do automate this time to get different rates as part of the OT pattern of p-locked settings of the FH-1. We did it with Yarns but that defaulted to have that setting per channel (each pair of jacks was set to a particular MIDI channel).

Sorry for barraging you with all of this stuff - but we're keen to get this rig finished off and we were hitting a wall with Yarns in terms of configurability and OP count, etc. so we're in the process of converting to FH-1 + expander(s).
os
Each MIDI/CV converter has its own portamento setting. There are 16 converters - so ch 14 CC 64 is converter 1, CC 65 is converter 2, and so on.
PM33AUD
Gotcha...

But I was more hoping I could get each voice's porta setting on that corresponding channel, not on a combined channel. That way I can program this setting in the actual same track the voice is on the OT.
os
If you use the same MIDI channel as MIDI/CV number then you have that.
PM33AUD
OK, you lost me on that one...

Script paste time!

FH-1 script v1
MCV1:9:0-127:C0v1
MCV2:10:0-127:C2v3
MCV3:11:0-127:C4v5
MCV4:12:0-127:C6v7

That's what I have now...

Each of those rows is driven by a separate OT track. I'm still stuck on the fact that the portamento settings for all converters are on Ch. 14 (via. different CC messages). I'd like portamento setting to reside on the same OT track as the voice (Ch. 9, 10, 11, 12 etc.) so I can program it inside the track. You can only have one MIDI channel specified per track on the OT.

Thanks,
Phil
os
Oh I see.

Well, don't forget you can remap CCs wherever you like.
PM33AUD
os wrote:
Oh I see.

Well, don't forget you can remap CCs wherever you like.

Truth.

But, what happens if I'm using Ch.14 for other stuff? Would that get 'demapped' if those set of CCs were used for something else?

I'm actually having a bit of an issue with the lack of 'turning off MIDI control' over some of the options - and it's compounded when you add an expander. Before the expander, there were enough CC numbers to place all of the controls that you didn't want to use with their own unique CC number on what I call a dummy MIDI channel. I use MIDI channel 7. Because we use most of the available 16 MIDI channels (except for 7), I'm running out of 'dead end' MIDI assignments on the FH-1 and expander. And so I'm worried that when I send MIDI traffic on channels other than 7, I'm adjusting output settings that I don't want. It's very procarious to not know, while sweeping through CC numbers (and their values) on the OT during use, whether you're accidentally setting/unsetting something.

And we now have 2x FH-1s with expanders and they all end up needing some of the settings to be set 'off.' So the only thing I can think of is to assign another dummy MIDI channel that we never allow in either the OTs.

The other oddity I noticed is that you can't set multiple things to the same CC number on the same Channel. When I upload the script and 'parse' any fields that had their values set to the same CC on the same channel (duplicates), the duplicates go back to default and don't update - it only keeps one unique field.

If you setup the following unused settings set to MIDI channel 7, CC#0 as so:



which creates:
FH-1 script v1
MCV15:15:0-127:PG7A6:C0G1V2:C3G4V5
RC7
CC0:1:7

If you upload this script to the online utility and parse, you end up with:



So I've been using unique CC#s on MIDI Ch. 7 for anything that I don't want to accidentally set. I've run out of CC#s though!

Maybe you could help on that one?
os
Channels 7-14 have nothing on CCs 0-63 - surely that's enough?
PM33AUD
I am using all but MIDI Channel 7 in my rig, currently. So that's 128 total unique CCs I can set to dead-ends. And it's not enough, unfortunately. I use 0-103 for just the Outputs (with the LFOs and such) and another set for the globals. Soon as I add another expander or chain FH-1s, I'm out and am forced to use up another MIDI channel. It's a rather complex system. smile Some of the MIDI channels are just for simple things like setting up the FH-1 LFOs and that's fine - I do have lots of free CC#s on those channels but we do change the CC pages to select different waveform amounts (since we're out of OT CTRL page slots for all of them) and I really want to avoid accidentally 'swiping' across a whole slew of FH-1 configurations being set to who knows what if we go farther on that control accidentally (which is pretty easy to do actually, if you turn the wrong thing or are on the wrong page). Those slip ups * how many pages I have with those controls mapped have me worried and simply wanting to separate them out on a dummy channel.

eg. for just one FH-1, no expander:



I only have a few free on Ch. 7. I could use up another MIDI channel but something else will have to go that is actually being used for some musical thing. A while back I asked about how to 'turn off' some destinations and understood this was the method - it was only till I grew expanders/FH-1s on the same system where it became a problem and I was running out of dead-ends.
os
But why can't you use e.g. ch8 CC0-63 as dead ends? The FH-1 will do nothing if you send CCs there.
PM33AUD
It's just that I'm out of MIDI channels is all. I was trying to use up as few MIDI channels that aren't really doing anything other than dead-ending as possible.

For one FH-1 with expander, that's 2 MIDI channels to dead end all of the outputs.

We have two FH-1 with expanders each. That's 4x MIDI channels to dead-end the unused outputs.

If it's not possible, we'll find a way, surely, but maybe something to consider for folks using a bunch of these things grin
os
I don't understand why changing FH-1 CCs to point at dead slots means you have to not use the MIDI channel on the Octatrack.

E.g. if you do

RC1
CC0-63:8:0
CC64-127:9:0

then you can send any MIDI CC you like on channel 1 and the FH-1 will ignore it.
PM33AUD
Hmmm. Maybe I am reading into the online script generator more than I should then (which doesn't display such a script's actions).

You are recommended just a CC remapping, which will work, which is where I was confused. Instead I was doing it the backwards way where I'd assign the actual outputs to a MIDI channel and CC that I know I'd never send from either of the OTs.

In the example:

FH-1 script v1
RC1
CC0-63:8:0
CC64-127:9:0

Q1) Is there a reason to split them up into 0-63 and 64-127?

For example, if I wanted to ignore ALL CCs on MIDI channel 1, would I do something like:

RC1
CC0-127:n:0

Q2) where n can be any number 7 thru 14 since these have nothing on CC#0 assigned to do anything. Is this correct?

Q3) And if I wanted the same but allow CC#55 to control the smoothing of FH-1 output 4, I'd do (maybe?):

RC1
CC0-54:n:0
CC56-127:n:0
CC55:1:67

where n can be 7 thru 14 as well.

Q4) BTW, I think I am missing a piece of the puzzle here and this is why I am confused... where is the big ol table of FH-1's assignments? For example, how do I find out what the correct 'target message' the smoothing on output 4? These are fixed, correct? In the above example, where do I find the 1:67 parts in the last line CC55:1:67 (and all of the other possible programmings!)?

Q5) And, BTW, I can also do a CC remap for the whole point of this thread - which is Legato glide portamento setting... if that is MIDI Ch. 14 let's say Portamento for converter 1, but I want to control that converter with MIDI Channel 9 only (same CC#64 though), I could do?:

RC1
CC64:14:64

Q6) And then what happens if I do send a CC#64 on MIDI channel 14? Do I have to 'dead-end' remap that one too?

Thanks again, I think I'm mostly around this bit!
os
Quote:
Is there a reason to split them up into 0-63 and 64-127?


CC0-63:8:0

maps to ch 8 CC 0-63. There's stuff from 64 up so you can't use those as dead ends.

Quote:
where is the big ol table of FH-1's assignments?

In the user manual.
PM33AUD
The page 9 stuff?

I thought that was just default stuff you could reconfigure, therefore it goes bye-bye when you use a custom script.

Can that table be reconfigured outside of simply CC remap commands or is it always that way? Stated another way, is that table fixed (no matter the script) 'inside' the FH-1? And all we are doing as mere mortals are remappings (a translation)?
PM33AUD
And I am confused by some of the dead ends in your example... the script line:

CC64-127:9:0

is occupied from CCs 64 to 95 asper the table I think is the right table (?)

Am I missing sth there?

I am confused confused! If I remap them as I thought:

CC0-127:8:0

let's say, how are the CC's still getting 'though' to the CC64 up values that do have programmings? Do the messages split or is the remapping a filter done serially? Like it seems that what you are saying is that that table is always fixed and if you send a CC there, nomatter a remapping, it will fire that cell. So I still have to avoid them regardless of CC remap I may program?
os
The table of CC response is fixed in the FH-1. The remapping lets you put a level of indirection before it hits that table.

CCs in the controller -> remap table -> fixed FH-1 response table.

So internally e.g. ch8 CC64 is always triangle LFO depth for expander 4 output 1.

In the script the 'RC' bit is the channel you're remapping *from* ("CCs in the controller" above).

RC1
CC0-127:8:0

remaps ch 1 CC 0-127 in the controller to ch 8 CC 0-127 in the FH-1. So ch 1 CC 64 will hit the LFO control mentioned above.

RC1
CC0-63:8:0
CC64-127:9:0

will remap channel 1 to the two unused sections of MIDI ch 8 & 9.
PM33AUD
OK, I got it now...

I was missing that the last value is the start of the range, not a specific destination! Devil in the details!

So is something like this allowed?:

RC1
CC0:8:0
CC1:8:0
CC2:8:0

in order to 'funnel' several CCs to the same destination? This would make doing the dead-ends a bit faster since I don't have to look up all of the empty cells.

And to hopefully close this one out... if I have:

RC1
CC0:14:64

this maps an incoming CC#1 on MIDI Channel 1 to CC#64 on MIDI Channel 14 (which is Portamento 1 setting as per the table).

So the question is this: What happens if I also send, directly, CC#64 on MIDI Channel 14? In other words, did the mapping CC0:14:64 'disconnect' it from receiving any other inputs but CC#0 on MIDI Channel 1?

And FYI, the table on page 10 of the manual has occupied destinations for MIDI channel 9, CC#64 thru 95 if anyone else is reading this.

I'll probably (once I have a solid grasp of all of this) post this on my Confluence page for the public to see.

Thanks again for all of the help. It's appreciated and I'll try and spread your time spend here best I can.
os
Quote:
So is something like this allowed?:

RC1
CC0:8:0
CC1:8:0
CC2:8:0

Yes.

Quote:
if I have:

RC1
CC0:14:64

this maps an incoming CC#1 on MIDI Channel 1 to CC#64 on MIDI Channel 14 (which is Portamento 1 setting as per the table).

CC #0, but yes.

Quote:
What happens if I also send, directly, CC#64 on MIDI Channel 14?

That continues to work as before.
PM33AUD
os wrote:

Quote:
if I have:

RC1
CC0:14:64

this maps an incoming CC#1 on MIDI Channel 1 to CC#64 on MIDI Channel 14 (which is Portamento 1 setting as per the table).

CC #0, but yes.

Quote:
What happens if I also send, directly, CC#64 on MIDI Channel 14?

That continues to work as before.

OK, one thing just to additionally clarify this whole shibang!:

If I do a script:

RC1
CC0:14:64
RC14
CC64:8:0

and I send a MIDI message to the FH-1 that is CC#64 on MIDI channel 14 then it will first 'catch' the message and NOT fire the destination FH-1 CC Assignment CC#64 on MIDI Ch.14, correct?

said another way, just in case, the remapping is in series and can effectively block an incoming message from mating to an assignment on the table (via routing to a dead cell in the assignments table)?

With this, I have quite enough to carry on with the FH-1, I think!
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