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Cloud Terrarium VS Shapeshifter?
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules  
Author Cloud Terrarium VS Shapeshifter?
Oasis_Pyramid
Has anyone got or played with both? and can offer some info of how similar or different they are?

I have a shapeshifter at the moment, but I have been offered a Cloud terrarium in trade from my Akemies Castle, which seems like a good trade.

from the videos I have seen the cloud terrarium looks and sounds great, and maybe sounds a bit more raw and analogue sounding that the shapeshifter, but maybe a little less dynamic and less cv control.

are they different beasts completely? or do they cover the same ground? and ill end up with two VCO's that do pretty much the same thing?

also I do love the akemies castle, so its a tough decision in that respect too, but I would never get rid of the shapeshifter. anyone able to offer insight?
mdoudoroff
I’d say that with Shapeshifter, the wavetables are mainly raw materials—a starting point for building a complex signal within the module using all the other features therein, while on the E352, the wavetables are the entire point. With the E352, you can build, modify and share wavetables for it (using software on your computer). Morphing and layering them (the “cloud” part) are the main features.

Neither have much to do with Akemie’s Castle.
tuj
So I have both in my system and have for a long time. The E350 excels at being smooth in transition between the waves, the interpolation really makes it sound transparent as it morphs around.

The shapeshifter on the other hand, i find to be more raw and somewhat harder to work with given it's complexity, which is both good and bad.

I also have the E352 and it's sort of the best of both in some ways. Lots of good morphing action, but also a solid display and set of extra features.
Oasis_Pyramid
thanks for the input guys, much appreciated.

seems like its great, and would be a good partner with the shapeshifter.

for some reason the sound of the Akemies castle to me never seems to gel well with the shapeshifter.
Oasis_Pyramid
did the deal!

really happy with it, unbelievable how simple it is to use, no manual needed (in fact i dont think they even have one)

happy with the sound, seems to pack a bit more raw punch and sound a bit more "analogue" than the shapeshifter. also seems to be able to morph through the wavetable a lot smoother with really nice harmonics you can pick out

i suppose now the challenge seems to be how to get them to play nicely together, they both pack a lot of punch!

blinosynth
the good thing of the complex wateble oscillator is that if you dont use them all the time they can be beautiful complex lfos or modulators... so u have such a beautiful system and possiblities there
well done
mdoudoroff
Good point by blinosynth. Also, I’ve been finding that digital oscillators often benefit from mild filtration and/or a little analog saturation—in essence, a hint of distortion to soften them up.
Oasis_Pyramid
blinosynth wrote:
the good thing of the complex wateble oscillator is that if you dont use them all the time they can be beautiful complex lfos or modulators... so u have such a beautiful system and possiblities there
well done


thanks man, yea ill have to give that a try, to be honest the system is a lot more advanced than my knowledge and experience with euro rack,especially all the modulation possibilities etc, but its great fun learning it all, the whole wavetable thing was a bit of a mystery to me, just just from getting the Cloud Terrarium and having a go at making wavetables on their software has made it a lot easier to understand.

plus the VCO's ive gone for have given me pretty much exactly the kind of sounds and textures I wanted to achieve in the first place by getting into modular
jjclark
mdoudoroff wrote:
Good point by blinosynth. Also, I’ve been finding that digital oscillators often benefit from mild filtration and/or a little analog saturation—in essence, a hint of distortion to soften them up.


Remember that the Shapeshifter includes an analog wavefolder which, at its lower end provides a nice warm saturation (before it gets all goofy with wavefolding).
Keikari
I hesitate a lot with the shapeshifter and the E352, if someone has both, could he tell us what are the similarities and differences between the 2 modules.
Mr. Green
mdoudoroff
Keikari wrote:
I hesitate a lot with the shapeshifter and the E352, if someone has both, could he tell us what are the similarities and differences between the 2 modules.
Mr. Green


You’re best off watching the extensive YouTube videos for each from DivKid and Mylar Melodies.
Jaypee
One of the main diff too is SS can play chords! Not E352!
Dragonaut
The E352 sounds amazing and as mentioned earlier in this thread is all about wavetable morphing. It can morph along two different axis so plenty of possibilities for complex sounds. The Shapeshifter is more of a mini-laboratory. It has many different modes for combining the two oscillators, an echo section, vocoder, chord mode, analog wavefolder, etc. Mylar Melodies video on the Shapeshifter will illustrate many of these capabilites. So personally that's the way I'm leaning as I already have a lot of fun with Serum which covers much of the ground the E352 covers. In a perfect world I would have both though.

What I would like to see is videos that illustrate the sound of each modules FM capabilities. I really like the sound of Serum's FM implementation and haven't heard many great examples of it's implementation in these two modules.
beliefsystemrecords
i have both. they are completely different animals. shapeshifter is a wavetable based complex vco in the vein of a dpo. the es 352 is just a wavteable vco. they both do wavteables but differ extremely in what you can do with them personally i prefere the shaeshifter.
Keikari
Thanks everyone for your answers, I will check videos of both modules before making any purchase, I know I would like to have haha. cool
Southfork
I recently just sold my e352. I think I finally admitted that the shapeshifter is my true love. Lots of modes, preset sequencing, chords, so so many types of modulation, deep fm and much more (delay, vocoder, analog wavefolder)

The e352 looks beautiful with the display and sounds hi res and butter smooth between tables and the synth tech build quality is fantastic, but a bit of a missed opportunity to add more than what was already present in the original modules it bolts together.

That beautiful screen could have been the centre of a deep mod matrix and why oh why have 3 knobs that do nothing more than attenuate incoming cv? Honestly if the firmware gets some new features i’ll be the first to re-buy. Even the software for making you’re own wave shapes was intuitive, but as it stands a rather pretty looking and sounding module that plays and morphs wavetables... disappointing :(
starthief
Southfork wrote:
a bit of a missed opportunity to add more than what was already present in the original modules it bolts together.


- Cloud mode with wavetables rather than just saw and sine
- 2-Op FM mode (from the E330) but with wavetables rather than just sines
- Morph+wavefolding mode
- Morph+phase mode available from the menu rather than a jumper
- Noise generator with 4 types and a filter
- Interpolation (both phase and table) are on menus, with more options than the E350
- Customizable wavetables
- TZFM modes in the most recent firmware
- 16 bit resolution


I'm not sure what a "mod matrix" would do on the E352. Generally that's a feature for non-modular synths to make up for lack of modularity -- just a way to assign LFOs, envelopes etc. to things.
mdoudoroff
The E352 and Shapeshifter are both oscillators, they’re both digital, and they both involve wavetables, but other than that, they have nothing much to do with each other.

you kids get off my lawn

While I agree—Southfork—that there are missed opportunities with the E352, the ones I’ve in mind are small things that—hypothetically—could be fixed with firmware: stuff like long filename support. Yes, the E352 excels at morphing wavetables—it’s probably better at it than any oscillator ever made in any format. The E352 (and E370) are really all about the wavetables, and yes, the E352 is a comparatively straightforward device.

The Shapeshifter is also a remarkable oscillator, but its wavetables are more like fodder for everything else it does.

Any given individual is likely to find one module more interesting than the other—or reject both—depending on their priorities. For example, I respect the Shapeshifter, but have precisely zero interest in using it. Meanwhile, I have an E370 on its way.
mgscheue
starthief wrote:


- Cloud mode with wavetables rather than just saw and sine
- 2-Op FM mode (from the E330) but with wavetables rather than just sines
- Morph+wavefolding mode
- Morph+phase mode available from the menu rather than a jumper
- Noise generator with 4 types and a filter
- Interpolation (both phase and table) are on menus, with more options than the E350
- Customizable wavetables
- TZFM modes in the most recent firmware
- 16 bit resolution


I'm not sure what a "mod matrix" would do on the E352. Generally that's a feature for non-modular synths to make up for lack of modularity -- just a way to assign LFOs, envelopes etc. to things.


Yes. Much more than a combination of the E350 and E340. As for the attenuator knobs, that was a widely-requested feature. It always surprises me how quickly some people dump modules without fully exploring them first.
Southfork
mgscheue wrote:
starthief wrote:


- Cloud mode with wavetables rather than just saw and sine
- 2-Op FM mode (from the E330) but with wavetables rather than just sines
- Morph+wavefolding mode
- Morph+phase mode available from the menu rather than a jumper
- Noise generator with 4 types and a filter
- Interpolation (both phase and table) are on menus, with more options than the E350
- Customizable wavetables
- TZFM modes in the most recent firmware
- 16 bit resolution


I'm not sure what a "mod matrix" would do on the E352. Generally that's a feature for non-modular synths to make up for lack of modularity -- just a way to assign LFOs, envelopes etc. to things.


Yes. Much more than a combination of the E350 and E340. As for the attenuator knobs, that was a widely-requested feature. It always surprises me how quickly some people dump modules without fully exploring them first.


It does sound lovely and different modules and tastes aside, but the E352 is quite basic with how it can be modulated externally and by itself compared to something like the shapeshifter.
CF3
Honestly, it really depends on what your focus is? Complex Osc? Wavetables?

For just a pure wavetable oscillator, hands down the E352. Sounds WAY smoother, by a lot. Creating and loading in your own wavetables is a breeze due to the WaveEdit and the removable SD Card.

Shapeshifter has many more functions and is many more times complex. Even though it does have wavetables (of a sort), I wouldn't buy it just for that. It's a crazy complex osc, with tons of bells and whistles. There is a learning curve, but the pay off is worth it.
paults
Suggest giving a listen to Robert Rich's new release 'The Biode', which is heavily-laden with E352 sound design (especially the 2nd, 3rd and last tracks).

https://robertrich.bandcamp.com/album/the-biode
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